Making you Own 12g Shells

Cork24

I was looking at the Lee-Load-All where you can buy your own 12g Shells, Pellets and Gun powder and let the machine do the work for you,

I can buy the Machine on ebay. but can you buy the Gun powder in your local gun store along with the Empty Shells ?

it would cut cost down big time, as i would easily fire 50 Shells a weekend with Clay Shooting

homerhop

Cork24 wrote: »

I was looking at the Lee-Load-All where you can buy your own 12g Shells, Pellets and Gun powder and let the machine do the work for you,

I can buy the Machine on ebay. but can you buy the Gun powder in your local gun store along with the Empty Shells ?

it would cut cost down big time, as i would easily fire 50 Shells a weekend with Clay Shooting

Nop it is illegal to reload here unless you are involved in the midlands scheme and that is for long range target shooting only

bravestar

Cork24 wrote: »

I was looking at the Lee-Load-All where you can buy your own 12g Shells, Pellets and Gun powder and let the machine do the work for you,

I can buy the Machine on ebay. but can you buy the Gun powder in your local gun store along with the Empty Shells ?

it would cut cost down big time, as i would easily fire 50 Shells a weekend with Clay Shooting

Rolling your own is not allowed here, yet.

Grizzly 45

Actually reloading has NEVER been illegal here,and isnt at the current minute either.:eek:[This is from the DOJ themselves BTW]

What is the problem is simply the importation and storage of powder and primers on a commercial level for resale to gun owners.
It is a logistical nightmare of regulation,transport,Garda escorts /DOJ approval and approved storage facilities at any firearms dealer brave enough to tackle the storage regulations and crack the costs of all this and still make a profit.

IOW you would need to import a few metric tonnes of powder for resale and have the storage facilities and approvals set up first to do so to make a profit.In that case you will need a Midlands type set up for storage before you sell one gram of powder. How you are going to get it into the ROI is another days work if it is being shipped by ferry,and bringing it down from NI,if you can get a dealer to sell it to you as everyione is under the assumption that"its banned in the Republic." will involve PSNI escorts and Garda escorts.
IF they so belive it is desireable to do so,and of course YOU will or might have to pay for said escorts.
Not to mind some total overkill on security."Cameras watching cameras" is kind of a in house joke up at Midlands re reloading.:)

Also,as this is done so rarely,everyone is over compensating on the issues of security and storage and of course CYA that every I must be dotted and T crossed with the correct pen stroke that it is making the process even harder.

On an individual level.You COULD import UNDER 4kgs of powder yourself and not run foul of the act and all this minimum safe storage distances.
PROVIDED ..
You have an approved safe storage facility by the county council fire dept.
In theory simple,but made difficult by cheif fire officers not being that sure or clued up on what is exactly involved in this entire process and over compensating again on safty issues.

You have written permission and import cert from the DOJ to do so..Detailing the amount, UN classification,where stored,where bought,etc etc.

You can find a dealer in NI who will sell to you and not think you are up to somthing as we all know "Its banned in the South!"

Are willing to hack thru another red tape jungle to get this onto a ferry from the UK and continent.Lets not even go there on that one!:eek:

You dont mind paying possibly for a PSNI/Garda escort home,as DOJ will inform both forces about the movement,and its up to either police forces if they want to escort this movement as a security risk.
Be rather like escorting 40 litres of petrol in jerry cans in a car...But still , dems the law!:pac:

If you can crack those problems,you would be well on the way to getting reloading established in the ROI again,and be either very rich or very broke,and wondering would the cost justify a box of 25 shells?

In short we have an Irish solution to an Irish problem.Its not illegal,but so difficult to actually do in practise it is off putting to anyone,bar somone with loads of money and no sanity ,a very unique domestic set up,and lots of time on their hands that it doesn't exist in practical everyday terms.Which is a good as a ban without being accused of being draconian or dictatorial.:rolleyes:

For those who want to persue it further you need to read the following acts
SI 804 of 2007 Explosives stores order and Explosives act 1875.Happy reading!!
Wishing you all a happy Easter.
Grizzly45.

Hunter21

Cork24 wrote: »

I was looking at the Lee-Load-All where you can buy your own 12g Shells, Pellets and Gun powder and let the machine do the work for you,

I can buy the Machine on ebay. but can you buy the Gun powder in your local gun store along with the Empty Shells ?

it would cut cost down big time, as i would easily fire 50 Shells a weekend with Clay Shooting

50 shells a weekend? Thats about €12 shooting, hardly going to break the bank!

Even if you could reload by buying all components legally it would hardly be worth you while for 50 shells a weekend after you factor in the cost of equipment from day one.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Actually reloading has NEVER been illegal here,and isnt at the current minute either.

Agree. It's not illegal, but as you said it's so complicated, and expensive it's pretty much impossible.

Even if a person were to meet all the security requirements, transport issues, etc, etc i still doubt they would be granted the import. Just a personal opinion.

For those who want to persue it further you need to read the following acts
SI 804 of 2007 Explosives stores order and Explosives act 1875.Happy reading!!
Wishing you all a happy Easter.
Grizzly45.

Here is the thing. With the explosives bill being drafted, re-written, altered, changed, delayed, etc, etc. they are not going to allow "free" purchasing, and trade of powder. As for selling it - no way. Whatever about someone buying it for themselves (say they were successful) they would want anyone buying to meet the same security standards.

Again i'm only discussing this from a personal point of view. None of what i say is written in stone or coming form a "known source".

Hunter21 wrote: »

Even if you could reload by buying all components legally it would hardly be worth you while for 50 shells a weekend after you factor in the cost of equipment from day one.

That is exactly what i'm thinking myself.

Clay shooting (the ammo end anyway) is on a par with .22 rimfire for cost. The average cost of a .22lr round is between 11 - 15 cent. A shotgun round about 15-18 cent per round. It is so cheap to buy factory ammo that reloading is not cost effective. Even the cheapest of reloading gear would cost you around €250 or so. That's 1,250 rounds, and going on what you said you use per weekend (50 rounds) would be 25 weekends worth or 6 months.

Reloading is only cost effective when the same shells are used a few times. For the first time it is not cheap. For example (any this is purely guess figures) you spend €250 on the gear, €5 on 100 primers, €30 on a tub of powder (1lb) for 300 rounds, €20 on 100 empty cartridges, €10 on 100 wads. That's €315 for your first 100 rounds. That's €3.15 cent per round. Once used you spend €15 on more primers, wads (no need for shells or powder). So now the price is €15 for 100. That's €0.15 per round. Same if not slightly cheaper than factory.

Once out of powder or the shells has been used as many times as they can you need to buy new shells, and more powder. So the cheapest you can do them for would be about €0.15 per round. As it only costs €0.15 - €0.18 per round why bother.

Its for this reason (among others) that rimfire shooters do not reload. The factory ammo (even the expensive match grade ammo) is so cheap that reloading is counter productive. Plus reloading is not about saving vast sums of money, cause you won't. It's about tailoring your ammo to suit your gun. In the world of rifle shooting this is very important, however it is less "fussy" in shotgun shooting.

Grizzly 45

Hunter21 wrote: »

50 shells a weekend? Thats about €12 shooting, hardly going to break the bank!

Even if you could reload by buying all components legally it would hardly be worth you while for 50 shells a weekend after you factor in the cost of equipment from day one.

Maybe if you were belting out about 5,000 shells a weekend,and reloading them the next weekend for use the following weekend.:D Good luck doing that with a Lee loader too. IOW you would have to be almost a pro clay buster or trying for the Olympics or somthing like that,and in that case,you would be proably be able to get some sponsorship from an ammo maker.....THEN it might pay for itself.

Where it might pay for itself would be if you were shooting CF pistol here and you have a high practise round count which is easily done,and you need a specific load and setup for your finickty race gun which mightnt be always available in Ireland.However the few of us diehards still doing this can pretty much manage with whats available out there.Was a different story in the IPSC days.:rolleyes:

EWQuinn

This thread got me to do some calculations I have not done for a long time. For the very casual shooter or hunter, the economcs of shotshell reloading do not work for sure. If you got into reloading for any serious volume, you would probably want the Mec 600 Jr at a minimum, now retailing at $185 - $200 here in states, yikes! (Cass was right about gear cost, I hadn't priced them in years.) You can get a Lee Load-All for about $60. If you want a real progressive loader for high volume, you will spend more.

Cost per shell for me to reload 20ga target shells with 7/8oz of #9 shot per shell would be 27 cents per shell. This assumes I buy once fired shells (which I wouldnt as I have couple tubs of empties). Say I shoot 100 shells per week, 30 weeks out of the year, 3,000 shells per year, then in 1 yr $200 reloading gear cost 6 cents per shell, so now we're up to 33 cents US. (For me NA as my gear is old & basically a sunk cost.)

Retail cost per shell of factory target 20 ga target shells is running 32 - 40 cents depending upon where and how you buy. So if you are going to shoot several 1000 shells in a year, you might think about reloading, IF it were legal. Otherwise not cost effective. Don't forget the thing we often forget to mention, the time involved.