WRH now a cork outpost

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

That hurt. That really hurt.

awwwwwwww!:D

Trotter

Im skeptical. Once again, we are a 'really important element' of something that's headed up in Cork, Galway or Dublin.

The trend continues. Will this drip drip continue until we are all out of anything remotely productive in the city, or with anything of value controlled by interests in the new big 3?

I'm also growing weary of every kick in the arse being presented to Waterford with a frilly bow on it, and defended by those that are on either side of the civil war politics.

Im tired of it and I see nothing in Waterford that suggests we will be anything other than a side show to Cork, Dublin or Galway. Waterford is no longer a gateway city, and it shows through in the leaking of hundreds if not thousands of jobs, influnce, income, university education, and whatever else a gateway city would hold dear.

/pessimism

Bards

Trotter wrote: »

Im skeptical. Once again, we are a 'really important element' of something that's headed up in Cork, Galway or Dublin.

The trend continues. Will this drip drip continue until we are all out of anything remotely productive in the city, or with anything of value controlled by interests in the new big 3?

I'm also growing weary of every kick in the arse being presented to Waterford with a frilly bow on it, and defended by those that are on either side of the civil war politics.

Im tired of it and I see nothing in Waterford that suggests we will be anything other than a side show to Cork, Dublin or Galway. Waterford is no longer a gateway city, and it shows through in the leaking of hundreds if not thousands of jobs, influnce, income, university education, and whatever else a gateway city would hold dear.

/pessimism

The writing was on the wall as soon as a FG/Lab govt was elected, with Hogan in Kilkenny and Howlin in Wexford, their motto is ABW (Anywhere But Waterford)

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

Both the HSE, the government and Paudie Coffey have said WRH is not being downgraded. Services are being kept, some services are being improved and the hospital will become a teaching hospital (as people sought). It will retain cancer, cardiology and trauma services.

Quoting directly from Paudie Coffey's statement on Facebook.

- WRH will continue to be a National Cancer Control Programme Centre and Waterford will retain its current population referral base for cancer patients from the region and further to that, joint consultant appointments (such as general surgery shared with Wexford) across the hospital groups will continue to support the cancer services it provides.

- Currently Waterford Regional Hospital’s cardiology unit is provided from 9am to 5pm. The appointment of an additional consultant, as a result of the establishment of the hospital group, means further flexibility of staff across the group should be achieved. The goal is the provision of cardiology cover 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at WRH and this is to welcomed.

- Further to critical services being maintained and enhanced, Waterford Regional Hospital is set to become a major teaching hospital, as a result of academic linkages to the hospital group. This will be a benefit in terms of research, education and professional development. Waterford Institute of Technology and WRH will work closer together and the current teaching arrangements between WRH and the Royal College of Surgeons will continue.

- To deliver on these targets we need to invest in WRH and that is exactly what the Government is doing. WRH is set to gain a considerable number of new and replacement consultant posts in the areas of emergency medicine, dermatology and acute medicine. The expansion of the Emergency Department at WRH is almost complete and the new unit has almost doubled the amount of treatment spaces.

- The existing 18 bed neo-natal unit will be replaced by a 25 bed state-of-the-art neo-natal unit that will serve all obstetric units in the South East region, due to be completed by the end of June. The long awaited regional palliative care unit has progressed to design stage recently and, together with the support of the Waterford Hospice Movement, will be advanced further.

Apparently the future of Roscommon A&E was also promised.

The Funding for WRH will be decided by CUH and if there are not enough ambulances in Cork, the funding will be used to purchase extra resources. If they have a shortage of nurses in CUH - money will be found.

WRH will be fighting with Kerry general for the scraps and guess who will win. WRH was going to be a level 4 hospital in the region - you can forget that now.

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

He is virtually unknown. He just participated in a few of the protests / campaigns to increase his reputation. Ciara wasn't very well known either but she has increased her rep.



I'm not sure what your point is - the HSE, James Reilly and Paudie Coffey are singing from the same hymn sheet: WRH is not being downgraded, the services are being retained and improved.



A board will be established with a CEO managing the group. WRH will have equal representation. I would suspect this will always be the case. If you cant trust your own representation, than WRH having complete control over their budget couldn't be trusted either.



The cabinet made the decision following a report that was not put together by James Reilly. The government were lobbied very hard not just by our TDs but by consultants, hospital staff and the people of Waterford and the South East as a whole. Remember there is a huge difference to what was being reported at the time by various campaigners and what has been decided.



I wouldn't see it like that. CUH shutting down WRH goes against the whole purpose of these groups and wouldn't have a hope of succeeding. But it can't - the board being setup will have equal representation for WRH and I don't think that will change. WRH will always have equal representation, I would suspect.



Its not being downgraded. The main services are still being held at WRH and it will now become a full University Teaching Hospital. I did some checking into the benefits of this new structure, which may I add isn't alone for Waterford.

The RCSI teaching arrangement was not fully developed. There are no professorships based at WRH and therefore it is of limited benefit. A full academic link to UCC medical school means WRH will become a fully fledged teaching arm of this medical school resulting in attracting doctors pursuing their medical careers far easier.

Try to get your facts right at least?

BlaasForRafa

Trotter wrote: »

Im skeptical. Once again, we are a 'really important element' of something that's headed up in Cork, Galway or Dublin.

Yeah, we heard the same thing when the IDA office got moved to Cork and look what's happened since then.

The FG supporters can spin it any way they like but the reality is that O'Reilly, Hogan, Howlin and the rest of them have sold Waterford down the river. There'll be a lot of blah blah blah about enhanced services and all that oul codswallop but once a few months have gone by, services in waterford will be quietly cut. It'll be death by a thousand cuts rather than one big dramatic one.

fricatus

The six groups then are basically Dublin, Dublin, Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick. Waterford is going to be an outpost of Cork.

Whether services will be cut or not, this is a disaster from the point of view of Waterford being on the same level as the other cities. We have ceased to be anything more than a county town at this stage - we're now a "city" on the periphery of Munster rather than the hub of the south-east region.

All those fools who said we don't need a university (e.g. with the argument "it's better to have a good IT than a mediocre university") sure have their answer today about where the power and prestige lies in this country - and it sure ain't here.

From a quick reading of the report, it seems that Waterford will continue to handle a large amount of the referrals in the south-east, so why not just keep the current network with WRH at its hub and the RCSI as the academic partner?

One sentence, from page 23 of the report really stands out for me: "There is an absence of a consensus/shared vision amongst all the hospitals in the current southeast hospital network". So it looks like UCC and UCD saw and exploited a division in the region and are now sharing out the spoils. And surprise surprise, a UCC man delivered the report. Sure why wouldn't he recommend that his own university gets the whip hand over a juicy big second hospital like WRH?

We'll have to wait and see what it means for actual service provision here, but it's clear that we're no longer at the top table in this country (not that I'm sure we ever were, but there was at least the pretence, in that we had a regional hospital and city council, like Galway and Limerick - now we don't even have any of that).

Even if the hospital gets renamed "Waterford University Hospital" it will still be a bit like the "special" kid getting a "special" medal, when he and everyone else knows he's not like the other boys. Are we going to be on a par with Galway University Hospital? Are we fcuk! It's an empty sop.

Sully

Trotter wrote: »

Im skeptical. Once again, we are a 'really important element' of something that's headed up in Cork, Galway or Dublin.

The trend continues. Will this drip drip continue until we are all out of anything remotely productive in the city, or with anything of value controlled by interests in the new big 3?

I'm also growing weary of every kick in the arse being presented to Waterford with a frilly bow on it, and defended by those that are on either side of the civil war politics.

Im tired of it and I see nothing in Waterford that suggests we will be anything other than a side show to Cork, Dublin or Galway. Waterford is no longer a gateway city, and it shows through in the leaking of hundreds if not thousands of jobs, influnce, income, university education, and whatever else a gateway city would hold dear.

/pessimism

Well it makes sense. Cork is a bigger hospital than Waterford. So when grouping hospitals all around the country, you would put the smaller guys with the bigger guys. Once again, this reform isn't just targeting Waterford. Waterford isn't exactly at a loss - its retaining services.

I'm defending this because I personally believe it makes sense. Not because Fine Gael are implementing it. I don't support Fine Gael all the time on everything they do and I have nothing to gain by supporting them. I haven't read much against it so far either. Our Health Service is a mess. It needs reform. Its not exactly bleeding Waterford or seeing Waterford's hospital close up. As I said, services are being kept and improved. It will retain cancer, cardiology and trauma services. It will become a Teaching Hospital, not to please the Waterford folk because this is going to be common across the groupings. Out of all the hospitals in our group it makes more sense to have WRH as the teaching hospital.

I see no problem in having six or so 'super hospitals' covering as vast amount of services instead of a large number of hospitals catering for all these services.

Bards wrote: »

The writing was on the wall as soon as a FG/Lab govt was elected, with Hogan in Kilkenny and Howlin in Wexford, their motto is ABW (Anywhere But Waterford)

Hogan & Howlin are not getting a super hospital. There also being grouped. The Ministers didn't insist on this, the hospital did.

Chiparus wrote: »

Apparently the future of Roscommon A&E was also promised.

The Funding for WRH will be decided by CUH and if there are not enough ambulances in Cork, the funding will be used to purchase extra resources. If they have a shortage of nurses in CUH - money will be found.

WRH will be fighting with Kerry general for the scraps and guess who will win. WRH was going to be a level 4 hospital in the region - you can forget that now.

Funding for WRH will be decided by a separate board with a CEO. The board will have representation from both hospitals equally. So to say CUH are in complete control is incorrect.

Also, Cork had two Ambulances available to deal with the recent traffic accident which I guess you are referring to. None of them were sent by the operator receiving the 999 call. Ambulances would be covered under a different budget also.

Chiparus wrote: »

Try to get your facts right at least?

Sorry if I was incorrect, it appears I wasn't the only one as I checked with hospital staff.

Chiparus

fricatus wrote: »

The six groups then are basically Dublin, Dublin, Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick. Waterford is going to be an outpost of Cork.

Whether services will be cut or not, this is a disaster from the point of view of Waterford being on the same level as the other cities. We have ceased to be anything more than a county town at this stage - we're now a "city" on the periphery of Munster rather than the hub of the south-east region.

All those fools who said we don't need a university (e.g. with the argument "it's better to have a good IT than a mediocre university") sure have their answer today about where the power and prestige lies in this country - and it sure ain't here.

From a quick reading of the report, it seems that Waterford will continue to handle a large amount of the referrals in the south-east, so why not just keep the current network with WRH at its hub and the RCSI as the academic partner?

One sentence, from page 23 of the report really stands out for me: "There is an absence of a consensus/shared vision amongst all the hospitals in the current southeast hospital network". So it looks like UCC and UCD saw and exploited a division in the region and are now sharing out the spoils. And surprise surprise, a UCC man delivered the report. Sure why wouldn't he recommend that his own university gets the whip hand over a juicy big second hospital like WRH?

We'll have to wait and see what it means for actual service provision here, but it's clear that we're no longer at the top table in this country (not that I'm sure we ever were, but there was at least the pretence, in that we had a regional hospital and city council, like Galway and Limerick - now we don't even have any of that).

Even if the hospital gets renamed "Waterford University Hospital" it will still be a bit like the "special" kid getting a "special" medal, when he and everyone else knows he's not like the other boys. Are we going to be on a par with Galway University Hospital? Are we fcuk! It's an empty sop.

Apparently Wexford are going to be renamed "Wexford University Hospital"

WUH WUH?

And they said that the south east without Kilkenny could not survive because they would not have the population base and now the mid western region is going to be a group with an even smaller population than the south east!

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

Well it makes sense. Cork is a bigger hospital than Waterford. So when grouping hospitals all around the country, you would put the smaller guys with the bigger guys. Once again, this reform isn't just targeting Waterford. Waterford isn't exactly at a loss - its retaining services.

I'm defending this because I personally believe it makes sense. Not because Fine Gael are implementing it. I don't support Fine Gael all the time on everything they do and I have nothing to gain by supporting them. I haven't read much against it so far either. Our Health Service is a mess. It needs reform. Its not exactly bleeding Waterford or seeing Waterford's hospital close up. As I said, services are being kept and improved. It will retain cancer, cardiology and trauma services. It will become a Teaching Hospital, not to please the Waterford folk because this is going to be common across the groupings. Out of all the hospitals in our group it makes more sense to have WRH as the teaching hospital.

I see no problem in having six or so 'super hospitals' covering as vast amount of services instead of a large number of hospitals catering for all these services.



Hogan & Howlin are not getting a super hospital. There also being grouped. The Ministers didn't insist on this, the hospital did.



Funding for WRH will be decided by a separate board with a CEO. The board will have representation from both hospitals equally. So to say CUH are in complete control is incorrect.

Also, Cork had two Ambulances available to deal with the recent traffic accident which I guess you are referring to. None of them were sent by the operator receiving the 999 call. Ambulances would be covered under a different budget also.



Sorry if I was incorrect, it appears I wasn't the only one as I checked with hospital staff.

Tell me will Kerry General Or south tipp also have equal representation on the board?

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/05/08/cuh-to-recruit-75-nurses-as-ban-lifted/

Mr Tibbs

Sully wrote: »

Both the HSE, the government and Paudie Coffey have said WRH is not being downgraded. Services are being kept, some services are being improved and the hospital will become a teaching hospital (as people sought). It will retain cancer, cardiology and trauma services.

Quoting directly from Paudie Coffey's statement on Facebook.

- WRH will continue to be a National Cancer Control Programme Centre and Waterford will retain its current population referral base for cancer patients from the region and further to that, joint consultant appointments (such as general surgery shared with Wexford) across the hospital groups will continue to support the cancer services it provides.

- Currently Waterford Regional Hospital’s cardiology unit is provided from 9am to 5pm. The appointment of an additional consultant, as a result of the establishment of the hospital group, means further flexibility of staff across the group should be achieved. The goal is the provision of cardiology cover 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at WRH and this is to welcomed.

- Further to critical services being maintained and enhanced, Waterford Regional Hospital is set to become a major teaching hospital, as a result of academic linkages to the hospital group. This will be a benefit in terms of research, education and professional development. Waterford Institute of Technology and WRH will work closer together and the current teaching arrangements between WRH and the Royal College of Surgeons will continue.

- To deliver on these targets we need to invest in WRH and that is exactly what the Government is doing. WRH is set to gain a considerable number of new and replacement consultant posts in the areas of emergency medicine, dermatology and acute medicine. The expansion of the Emergency Department at WRH is almost complete and the new unit has almost doubled the amount of treatment spaces.

- The existing 18 bed neo-natal unit will be replaced by a 25 bed state-of-the-art neo-natal unit that will serve all obstetric units in the South East region, due to be completed by the end of June. The long awaited regional palliative care unit has progressed to design stage recently and, together with the support of the Waterford Hospice Movement, will be advanced further.

Your point is very well made Sully thank you for that but it is the name that really bothers me. Take for instance why wasn't Limerick and Galway joined together under one name like what has been done to us. They are about the same distance apart with about the same population give or take a few thousand. That would also save a fortune and I'm sure either of these cities would not regard it as a downgrade whichever one would be about to lose their name would they now.
I could imagine if Galway was joined with UHL and it was renamed say The Mid Western University Hospital the uproar would be unreal. You should know that our fight for University status is as old as that of Limerick's. The only difference there sure we all can see for ourselves what that is.
I cant figure out how anyone can think that breaking up the South east region is for the better of this area. I'm very suspicious and I really cant see this great big benefit in the long term. I really hope it will be though but looking at it from the outside it is a downgrade by name that no other regional capital would accept.
The one thing this county never really had in any government was a TD with balls. The silent nodding from Paudi Coffey and John Deasy is deafening. I don't live far from Paudi but the last time I saw him was when he was canvasing in the last election promising to fight tooth and nail for WRH and of course University status for WIT and making the South East region stronger. Well that's a dead duck now anyway I sorry to say, broken promises to this region are nothing new. As for John Deasy I cant remember the last time I heard his voice. Interesting though this Professor Higgins is based in UHC I wonder what his political affiliation is or am I really being paranoid now.
Oh by the way I still have my car stickers demanding public Radiotherapy for the South East and University status for WIT, I should probably take them down now as they are beginning to fade very badly. They haven't aged very well these past few years and there's no new one's to be got.

lertsnim

padraig.od wrote: »

The FG/Lab coalition government is effectively "compelling you through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse". No wonder you don't like big Phil Hogan and the gang.

Grow up.

Why did you ignore the other meanings listed on dictionary.com

dictionary.com wrote:

1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object)
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.

MOC88

Sully wrote: »

Well it makes sense. Cork is a bigger hospital than Waterford. So when grouping hospitals all around the country, you would put the smaller guys with the bigger guys. Once again, this reform isn't just targeting Waterford. Waterford isn't exactly at a loss - its retaining services.

I'm defending this because I personally believe it makes sense. Not because Fine Gael are implementing it. I don't support Fine Gael all the time on everything they do and I have nothing to gain by supporting them. I haven't read much against it so far either. Our Health Service is a mess. It needs reform. Its not exactly bleeding Waterford or seeing Waterford's hospital close up. As I said, services are being kept and improved. It will retain cancer, cardiology and trauma services. It will become a Teaching Hospital, not to please the Waterford folk because this is going to be common across the groupings. Out of all the hospitals in our group it makes more sense to have WRH as the teaching hospital.

I see no problem in having six or so 'super hospitals' covering as vast amount of services instead of a large number of hospitals catering for all these services.



Hogan & Howlin are not getting a super hospital. There also being grouped. The Ministers didn't insist on this, the hospital did.



Funding for WRH will be decided by a separate board with a CEO. The board will have representation from both hospitals equally. So to say CUH are in complete control is incorrect.

Also, Cork had two Ambulances available to deal with the recent traffic accident which I guess you are referring to. None of them were sent by the operator receiving the 999 call. Ambulances would be covered under a different budget also.



Sorry if I was incorrect, it appears I wasn't the only one as I checked with hospital staff.

Waterford has been the best run hospital in the country for a while now http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0226/128111-health/ and has been operating without going in to negative which is a far cry from the way CUH is run. So the well run hospital is being grouped under the control of the less well run hospital... this makes no sense if we are to fix the problems that are there.
How does the redrawing of lines further the private medical insurance scheme fina gael have been saying is their plan for the future... shouldn't each hospital be operating independently if that is to work? It's a poorly thought out plan to appear to be doing something to distract from the appalling innefeciencies and problems we have with the health service.

As far as the statements saying there was division that's entirely rubbish.
Wexford, Tipp and Waterford wanted to continue as is while 3 of the 4 consultants in Kilkenny wanted a change ... so 3 consultants in kilkenny and that means division? (They also recently got a massive funding increase after they put together that statement)

The report was put together by a consultant who has a private practice at CUH so there were clearly lines being crossed here.

Can you clarify the makeup of the board seeing as you have so much confidence in it operating seeing as you seem to have full confidence in it?

Hogan and Howlin wouldn't really care because they live in Dublin 90% and have houses there and can very easily afford to retire there... the only loss they are concerned about are loss of votes

Sully

Chiparus wrote: »

Apparently Wexford are going to be renamed "Wexford University Hospital"

WUH WUH?

And they said that the south east without Kilkenny could not survive because they would not have the population base and now the mid western region is going to be a group with an even smaller population than the south east!

Chiparus wrote: »

Tell me will Kerry General Or south tipp also have equal representation on the board?

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/05/08/cuh-to-recruit-75-nurses-as-ban-lifted/

I don't know the remaining makeup of the board.

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

Your point is very well made Sully thank you for that but it is the name that really bothers me. Take for instance why wasn't Limerick and Galway joined together under one name like what has been done to us. They are about the same distance apart with about the same population give or take a few thousand. That would also save a fortune and I'm sure either of these cities would not regard it as a downgrade whichever one would be about to lose their name would they now.
I could imagine if Galway was joined with UHL and it was renamed say The Mid Western University Hospital the uproar would be unreal. You should know that our fight for University status is as old as that of Limerick's. The only difference there sure we all can see for ourselves what that is.
I cant figure out how anyone can think that breaking up the South east region is for the better of this area. I'm very suspicious and I really cant see this great big benefit in the long term. I really hope it will be though but looking at it from the outside it is a downgrade by name that no other regional capital would accept.
The one thing this county never really had in any government was a TD with balls. The silent nodding from Paudi Coffey and John Deasy is deafening. I don't live far from Paudi but the last time I saw him was when he was canvasing in the last election promising to fight tooth and nail for WRH and of course University status for WIT and making the South East region stronger. Well that's a dead duck now anyway I sorry to say, broken promises to this region are nothing new. As for John Deasy I cant remember the last time I heard his voice. Interesting though this Professor Higgins is based in UHC I wonder what his political affiliation is or am I really being paranoid now.
Oh by the way I still have my car stickers demanding public Radiotherapy for the South East and University status for WIT, I should probably take them down now as they are beginning to fade very badly. They haven't aged very well these past few years and there's no new one's to be got.

The way I look at the distances and sizes of the hospitals, I am not seeing any issue and I can see why Limerick & Galway wouldn't be put together. The groups leader is the bigger hospital. They are then paired with smaller hospitals. Limerick & Galway are both big hospitals, so it doesn't make sense to join those together. Therefore they become the leaders hosting the bigger and the smaller hospitals are paired. Limerick is being paired with smaller hospitals a half an hour away (in most cases). Galway is being paired with smaller hospitals about an hour away (in most cases).

Waterford is smaller than Cork, therefore its part of the grouping with other smaller hospitals within about an hours grasp. There also mostly bigger hospitals than Waterford (bar Limerick, which is just shy) and they have more smaller hospitals within their grasp that would be joined with them therefore making (to me) more sense to join them. Our local hospitals didn't want to be joined with WRH and I am not sure if we even had enough (with their support) hospitals to form a grouping. There area left made sense to be joined with Cork.

Our TDs are welcoming it, John Halligan included. David Cullinane, Senator, also seems to be supporting it. So even those on opposite benches are fairly comfortable with the idea. Paudie Coffey campaigned to make WRH stronger - and he said very clearly he would consider his position if WRH was downgraded. The end result was a teaching hospital for Waterford (which people on here called for!) regrouped with Cork, a budget not controlled by Cork but by a board where Waterford will have equal status, no loss of services to WRH, and 5 full time Academic consultants will be appointed to WRH from Cork. That is why there isn't widespread anger or TDs furious. Because its not bad news.

The University Status was raised by Paudie recently (April 16th) with Ruairí Quinn. Link: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20130416~WRR?opendocument#WRR02300

Work was done to get the ball rolling, groups were asked to submit an application, WIT sent in their application. The ball is now with the HEA who handle the application. But the government did immediately on entering office work on the issue of University for the South East. I am blue in the face saying this but those who want to have a go and want to have a moan will cover their eyes & ears and demand it happen now.

MOC88 wrote: »

Waterford has been the best run hospital in the country for a while now http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0226/128111-health/ and has been operating without going in to negative which is a far cry from the way CUH is run. So the well run hospital is being grouped under the control of the less well run hospital... this makes no sense if we are to fix the problems that are there.
How does the redrawing of lines further the private medical insurance scheme fina gael have been saying is their plan for the future... shouldn't each hospital be operating independently if that is to work? It's a poorly thought out plan to appear to be doing something to distract from the appalling innefeciencies and problems we have with the health service.

As far as the statements saying there was division that's entirely rubbish.
Wexford, Tipp and Waterford wanted to continue as is while 3 of the 4 consultants in Kilkenny wanted a change ... so 3 consultants in kilkenny and that means division? (They also recently got a massive funding increase after they put together that statement)

The report was put together by a consultant who has a private practice at CUH so there were clearly lines being crossed here.

Can you clarify the makeup of the board seeing as you have so much confidence in it operating seeing as you seem to have full confidence in it?

Hogan and Howlin wouldn't really care because they live in Dublin 90% and have houses there and can very easily afford to retire there... the only loss they are concerned about are loss of votes

Your moving away from WRH there into the bigger issue of 'Why' there is regrouping in the first place. I already covered in an earlier post, briefly, as to why this idea was put forward and now looking to be implemented. It makes sense, our politicians agree (even those on opposing sides). Layers of management are gone, services will improve, and money will be saved. Nobody is saying WRH was a poorly run hospital - its keeping its services and is being upgraded to a Teaching Hospital. Its just being grouped with Cork and I explained earlier as to why this was done (my assumption) this particular way.

As for the makeup of the board - its been widely reported by campaigners and politicians on both sides of the house that WRH will have equal representation and it will have a CEO managing the board. If you don't trust our representatives, than that's a much bigger issue and something I am sure our hospital and local TDs would be very much interested and concerned to hear.

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

I don't know the remaining makeup of the board.



The way I look at the distances and sizes of the hospitals, I am not seeing any issue and I can see why Limerick & Galway wouldn't be put together. The groups leader is the bigger hospital. They are then paired with smaller hospitals. Limerick & Galway are both big hospitals, so it doesn't make sense to join those together. Therefore they become the leaders hosting the bigger and the smaller hospitals are paired. Limerick is being paired with smaller hospitals a half an hour away (in most cases). Galway is being paired with smaller hospitals about an hour away (in most cases).

Waterford is smaller than Cork, therefore its part of the grouping with other smaller hospitals within about an hours grasp. There also mostly bigger hospitals than Waterford (bar Limerick, which is just shy) and they have more smaller hospitals within their grasp that would be joined with them therefore making (to me) more sense to join them. Our local hospitals didn't want to be joined with WRH and I am not sure if we even had enough (with their support) hospitals to form a grouping. There area left made sense to be joined with Cork.

Our TDs are welcoming it, John Halligan included. David Cullinane, Senator, also seems to be supporting it. So even those on opposite benches are fairly comfortable with the idea. Paudie Coffey campaigned to make WRH stronger - and he said very clearly he would consider his position if WRH was downgraded. The end result was a teaching hospital for Waterford (which people on here called for!) regrouped with Cork, a budget not controlled by Cork but by a board where Waterford will have equal status, no loss of services to WRH, and 5 full time Academic consultants will be appointed to WRH from Cork. That is why there isn't widespread anger or TDs furious. Because its not bad news.

The University Status was raised by Paudie recently (April 16th) with Ruairí Quinn. Link: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20130416~WRR?opendocument#WRR02300

Work was done to get the ball rolling, groups were asked to submit an application, WIT sent in their application. The ball is now with the HEA who handle the application. But the government did immediately on entering office work on the issue of University for the South East. I am blue in the face saying this but those who want to have a go and want to have a moan will cover their eyes & ears and demand it happen now.



Your moving away from WRH there into the bigger issue of 'Why' there is regrouping in the first place. I already covered in an earlier post, briefly, as to why this idea was put forward and now looking to be implemented. It makes sense, our politicians agree (even those on opposing sides). Layers of management are gone, services will improve, and money will be saved. Nobody is saying WRH was a poorly run hospital - its keeping its services and is being upgraded to a Teaching Hospital. Its just being grouped with Cork and I explained earlier as to why this was done (my assumption) this particular way.

As for the makeup of the board - its been widely reported by campaigners and politicians on both sides of the house that WRH will have equal representation and it will have a CEO managing the board. If you don't trust our representatives, than that's a much bigger issue and something I am sure our hospital and local TDs would be very much interested and concerned to hear.

Again try to get your facts correct!! One hospital did not want to be part of the south east - If WRH did not want to be part of the Cork group could they have opted out like SLK, Yea right.

WRH could have been the center of a group, but CUH needs another big hospital to provide funding - WRH had no links with CUH , no CUH med students ever darkened the door of WRH, Plenty of RCSI students, with lecture theaters and teaching facilities costing millions, lecturers and professors appointed by RCSI working in the Hospital.

Funding will be based on the work done - WRH very efficient ,CUH not efficient. Now money earned by WRH will go to CUH and divided up according to CUH wishes.

Bards

Chiparus wrote: »

Again try to get your facts correct!! One hospital did not want to be part of the south east - If WRH did not want to be part of the Cork group could they have opted out like SLK, Yea right.

WRH could have been the center of a group, but CUH needs another big hospital to provide funding - WRH had no links with CUH , no CUH med students ever darkened the door of WRH, Plenty of RCSI students, with lecture theaters and teaching facilities costing millions, lecturers and professors appointed by RCSI working in the Hospital.

Funding will be based on the work done - WRH very efficient ,CUH not efficient. Now money earned by WRH will go to CUH and divided up according to CUH wishes.

Exactly, and to say that limerick was a big hospital just like Galway is laughable, wrh is just as big as limerick regional.

Its all politics, politics, politics, money will follow the patient, me arse,

Money will follow political influence and that means Cork will once again Rape Waterford for their own benefit and not the patients best interests.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

I don't know the remaining makeup of the board.



The way I look at the distances and sizes of the hospitals, I am not seeing any issue and I can see why Limerick & Galway wouldn't be put together. The groups leader is the bigger hospital. They are then paired with smaller hospitals. Limerick & Galway are both big hospitals, so it doesn't make sense to join those together. Therefore they become the leaders hosting the bigger and the smaller hospitals are paired. Limerick is being paired with smaller hospitals a half an hour away (in most cases). Galway is being paired with smaller hospitals about an hour away (in most cases).

Waterford is smaller than Cork, therefore its part of the grouping with other smaller hospitals within about an hours grasp. There also mostly bigger hospitals than Waterford (bar Limerick, which is just shy) and they have more smaller hospitals within their grasp that would be joined with them therefore making (to me) more sense to join them. Our local hospitals didn't want to be joined with WRH and I am not sure if we even had enough (with their support) hospitals to form a grouping. There area left made sense to be joined with Cork.

Our TDs are welcoming it, John Halligan included. David Cullinane, Senator, also seems to be supporting it. So even those on opposite benches are fairly comfortable with the idea. Paudie Coffey campaigned to make WRH stronger - and he said very clearly he would consider his position if WRH was downgraded. The end result was a teaching hospital for Waterford (which people on here called for!) regrouped with Cork, a budget not controlled by Cork but by a board where Waterford will have equal status, no loss of services to WRH, and 5 full time Academic consultants will be appointed to WRH from Cork. That is why there isn't widespread anger or TDs furious. Because its not bad news.

The University Status was raised by Paudie recently (April 16th) with Ruairí Quinn. Link: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20130416~WRR?opendocument#WRR02300

Work was done to get the ball rolling, groups were asked to submit an application, WIT sent in their application. The ball is now with the HEA who handle the application. But the government did immediately on entering office work on the issue of University for the South East. I am blue in the face saying this but those who want to have a go and want to have a moan will cover their eyes & ears and demand it happen now.



Your moving away from WRH there into the bigger issue of 'Why' there is regrouping in the first place. I already covered in an earlier post, briefly, as to why this idea was put forward and now looking to be implemented. It makes sense, our politicians agree (even those on opposing sides). Layers of management are gone, services will improve, and money will be saved. Nobody is saying WRH was a poorly run hospital - its keeping its services and is being upgraded to a Teaching Hospital. Its just being grouped with Cork and I explained earlier as to why this was done (my assumption) this particular way.

As for the makeup of the board - its been widely reported by campaigners and politicians on both sides of the house that WRH will have equal representation and it will have a CEO managing the board. If you don't trust our representatives, than that's a much bigger issue and something I am sure our hospital and local TDs would be very much interested and concerned to hear.

Layers of management? The original Health Boards were disbanded because they were inefficient. They've merely reinstated them in a different guise.

Nypd

7upfree wrote: »

Layers of management? The original Health Boards were disbanded because they were inefficient. They've merely reinstated them in a different guise.

Excellent point, our health service have been a shambles for years under Harney and now O Reilly is setting it back decades.
Congrats to FG/Lab for once again raping our services.

Jambo

Nypd wrote: »

Excellent point, our health service have been a shambles for years under Harney and now O Reilly is setting it back decades.
Congrats to FG/Lab for once again raping our services.

This is the same point that was being made on TV3 this morning - they were also saying they they believed any Doctor / Surgeons / Hospital professional
will ultimately want to better themselves and their professional career by moving up the ranks and this would more than likely mean a brain drain on the regional hospitals to the main hubs such as Cork/Dublin/Galway etc.

Bards

There was a very good question put to O'reilly last night on Prime Time from one of the poeple form the Save Waterford group.

She asked and I'll paraphrase "Which hoispital is to look after a Cancer Patient with Renal Problems, as the two services are to be split between Waterford & Cork"

O'Reilly quickly skipped over the issue by saying "I'll come back to that in a minute" which he didn't and moved on to the next question.

In fact he looked a bit shocked by the question as he knew the answer will probably kill patients by having these two interdependant specialities split between 2 x centres of Excellence!!

gw80

Bards wrote: »

There was a very good question put to O'reilly last night on Prime Time from one of the poeple form the Save Waterford group.

She asked and I'll paraphrase "Which hoispital is to look after a Cancer Patient with Renal Problems, as the two services are to be split between Waterford & Cork"

O'Reilly quickly skipped over the issue by saying "I'll come back to that in a minute" which he didn't and moved on to the next question.

In fact he looked a bit shocked by the question as he knew the answer will probably kill patients by having these two interdependant specialities split between 2 x centres of Excellence!!

too be fair i think it was pat kenny said that, but still it was brushed aside and forgotten about

danjo-xx

gw80 wrote: »

too be fair i think it was pat kenny said that, but still it was brushed aside and forgotten about

It was actually Andrea from the save waterford group as Bards pointed out, and it was the first question to be asked from the audience, so nice of Reilly to park and forget about it when he had ample time to respond in the first place.

Psychedelic

I have just been reading the Save Waterford and SEHAA Facebook pages and saw that a WRH consultant said on WLR this morning that WRH never had control of its budget. Listen to the consultant humming & hawing as soon as John Deasy's questions are put to him. It all sounds a bit dodgy to me.

One of the central points of the whole protest campaign, which was guided by information provided by the WRH consultants, was that WRH needed to control its own budget. But now the consultants are saying it never had control and sure the South East Hospital Network wasn't working anyway.

gw80

danjo-xx wrote: »

It was actually Andrea from the save waterford group as Bards pointed out, and it was the first question to be asked from the audience, so nice of Reilly to park and forget about it when he had ample time to respond in the first place.

i meant it was pat kenny who said "ill get back to that"

danjo-xx

gw80 wrote: »

i meant it was pat kenny who said "ill get back to that"

Yup your quite right, sorry for taking you up wrong.

fuzzy dunlop

It is quite fascinating to see the party hack lie to cover up his parties treachery. Saying Limerick is a larger hospital than Waterford is a gross misrepresentation. The are both the same size and easily comparable. WRH is even comparable in size to UHG. So this smaller hospital language is symptomatic of the lies and mentality of Waterfords political representation. The Waterford TD's are essentially villagers from Portlaw and Dungarvan and it suits them to try and present Waterford as" less than" Galway and Limerick in particular when in reality it is no such thing.It is equal and in that it performs the same regional role. Ignore Halligan because he is the opposition. These villagers have no mental concept of strong regional centres and politics for them is about their own parish. We completely deluded ourselves into thinking these rural peasants would actually do anything progressive. Everything I feared would be done by these lying scumbags has come to pass and worse. And then there is fools who actually think people didn't know what they were doing by voting for Cullen.

There is local elections next year and that will be the first opportunity for revenge. I will say that FG and Labour will experience what FF did in one fell swoop instead of two or three elections. Is it any wonder why FF got elected over and over and over again in this country. The only consolation is that I know we are used to fighting down here. Unlike the Panhandlers to the west of us we fight for what we get.Watch FG and Labour get purged in this county in the next five years. Who will benefit? FF and SF. And whose fault will it be? FG and Labour. But don't expect them to admit it. They will still be trying to dine out on the old line that "FF wrecked the economy" when the fact is they followed the exact same policies. Never Forgive and Never Forget!

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It is quite fascinating to see the party hack lie to cover up his parties treachery. Saying Limerick is a larger hospital than Waterford is a gross misrepresentation. The are both the same size and easily comparable. WRH is even comparable in size to UHG. So this smaller hospital language is symptomatic of the lies and mentality of Waterfords political representation. The Waterford TD's are essentially villagers from Portlaw and Dungarvan and it suits them to try and present Waterford as" less than" Galway and Limerick in particular when in reality it is no such thing.It is equal and in that it performs the same regional role. Ignore Halligan because he is the opposition. These villagers have no mental concept of strong regional centres and politics for them is about their own parish. We completely deluded ourselves into thinking these rural peasants would actually do anything progressive. Everything I feared would be done by these lying scumbags has come to pass and worse. And then there is fools who actually think people didn't know what they were doing by voting for Cullen.

There is local elections next year and that will be the first opportunity for revenge. I will say that FG and Labour will experience what FF did in one fell swoop instead of two or three elections. Is it any wonder why FF got elected over and over and over again in this country. The only consolation is that I know we are used to fighting down here. Unlike the Panhandlers to the west of us we fight for what we get.Watch FG and Labour get purged in this county in the next five years. Who will benefit? FF and SF. And whose fault will it be? FG and Labour. But don't expect them to admit it. They will still be trying to dine out on the old line that "FF wrecked the economy" when the fact is they followed the exact same policies. Never Forgive and Never Forget!

Firstly, I would appreciate you didn't stoop as low with petty insults in our 'debate'.

Secondly, I did not lie or cover up anything. I have posted either my personal opinion or a fact. I appear to have been misinformed on two issues relating to WRH, from people who work with the hospital and from what was widely reported on Boards alone.

Finally, I never once said Limerick was bigger, so as someone else said, 'get your facts right'.

Thanks.

fuzzy dunlop

Sully wrote: »

Firstly, I would appreciate you didn't stoop as low with petty insults in our 'debate'.

Secondly, I did not lie or cover up anything. I have posted either my personal opinion or a fact. I appear to have been misinformed on two issues relating to WRH, from people who work with the hospital and from what was widely reported on Boards alone.

Finally, I never once said Limerick was bigger, so as someone else said, 'get your facts right'.

Thanks.

Sully you're that far up your own FG arse that you can't see the contradictions in your own posts. It makes no sense to justify grouping Waterford and Cork and and not apply the same to Galway and Limerick. The reasons you gave for not grouping Limerick and Galway apply more so to Waterford and Cork. Also the hospitals in the SE not wanting to be grouped together is another misrepresnetation. Only St Lukes takes this view. And if the government seems to think it can force WRH into an arrangement with Cork why can't it do the same with St. Lukes and WRH for the SE which has the critical mass to maintain all the services that are in the SW and West and more so than the mid west. We DO NOT WANT to be paired with Cork for this reason. So why do WE have to accept this and Kilkenny doesn't.There IS no logic. Your justification for political treachery is so pathalogical it is not even credible. The only reason people respond to your insanity is that when it it goes quite here you and all the other hacks slowly ooze in trying to use the forum to create some false consensus that the government is acheiving something for us. They're not! We're being raped here so that things can be maintainened in Cork and lesser hospitals in the region.

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

I don't know the remaining makeup of the board.



The way I look at the distances and sizes of the hospitals, I am not seeing any issue and I can see why Limerick & Galway wouldn't be put together. The groups leader is the bigger hospital. They are then paired with smaller hospitals. Limerick & Galway are both big hospitals, so it doesn't make sense to join those together. Therefore they become the leaders hosting the bigger and the smaller hospitals are paired. Limerick is being paired with smaller hospitals a half an hour away (in most cases). Galway is being paired with smaller hospitals about an hour away (in most cases).

Waterford is smaller than Cork, therefore its part of the grouping with other smaller hospitals within about an hours grasp. There also mostly bigger hospitals than Waterford (bar Limerick, which is just shy) and they have more smaller hospitals within their grasp that would be joined with them therefore making (to me) more sense to join them. Our local hospitals didn't want to be joined with WRH and I am not sure if we even had enough (with their support) hospitals to form a grouping. There area left made sense to be joined with Cork.

Our TDs are welcoming it, John Halligan included. David Cullinane, Senator, also seems to be supporting it. So even those on opposite benches are fairly comfortable with the idea. Paudie Coffey campaigned to make WRH stronger - and he said very clearly he would consider his position if WRH was downgraded. The end result was a teaching hospital for Waterford (which people on here called for!) regrouped with Cork, a budget not controlled by Cork but by a board where Waterford will have equal status, no loss of services to WRH, and 5 full time Academic consultants will be appointed to WRH from Cork. That is why there isn't widespread anger or TDs furious. Because its not bad news.

The University Status was raised by Paudie recently (April 16th) with Ruairí Quinn. Link: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20130416~WRR?opendocument#WRR02300

Work was done to get the ball rolling, groups were asked to submit an application, WIT sent in their application. The ball is now with the HEA who handle the application. But the government did immediately on entering office work on the issue of University for the South East. I am blue in the face saying this but those who want to have a go and want to have a moan will cover their eyes & ears and demand it happen now.



Your moving away from WRH there into the bigger issue of 'Why' there is regrouping in the first place. I already covered in an earlier post, briefly, as to why this idea was put forward and now looking to be implemented. It makes sense, our politicians agree (even those on opposing sides). Layers of management are gone, services will improve, and money will be saved. Nobody is saying WRH was a poorly run hospital - its keeping its services and is being upgraded to a Teaching Hospital. Its just being grouped with Cork and I explained earlier as to why this was done (my assumption) this particular way.

As for the makeup of the board - its been widely reported by campaigners and politicians on both sides of the house that WRH will have equal representation and it will have a CEO managing the board. If you don't trust our representatives, than that's a much bigger issue and something I am sure our hospital and local TDs would be very much interested and concerned to hear.

Amazing how the Mater was paired with St Vincents? Shoot your theory out of the water?

and good luck driving from Galway to Roscommon, Sligo , or letterkenny in an hour- even Calstlebar would be difficult to do.

MOC88

Sully wrote: »

Your moving away from WRH there into the bigger issue of 'Why' there is regrouping in the first place. I already covered in an earlier post, briefly, as to why this idea was put forward and now looking to be implemented. It makes sense, our politicians agree (even those on opposing sides). Layers of management are gone, services will improve, and money will be saved. Nobody is saying WRH was a poorly run hospital - its keeping its services and is being upgraded to a Teaching Hospital. Its just being grouped with Cork and I explained earlier as to why this was done (my assumption) this particular way.

As for the makeup of the board - its been widely reported by campaigners and politicians on both sides of the house that WRH will have equal representation and it will have a CEO managing the board. If you don't trust our representatives, than that's a much bigger issue and something I am sure our hospital and local TDs would be very much interested and concerned to hear.

My argument is not that any re-organisation is a bad idea but that putting Waterford a very(probably the best) well run hospital under the grouping and indirect control of a much less efficient hospital makes very little sense.

Yes as you have perceived I have no confidence in our representatives but a bit more in our well run hospital that opposed the regrouping. If they are concerned about my confidence why would they be concerned about a drop in the ocean... now you may think that everyone has great confidence in the current Government and if that is the case I would direct you to every single poll taken on support for the Government since they've taken the office. By not having any confidence in our representatives and Government I'm in a large majority.

If you're being sarcastic I would question your motives for attempting to lower the conversation in to childishness when it concerns the health and well being of thousands of people and is obviously an emotive subject for a lot of people.