Mind Our Men !

HondaSami

''More than 500 people have used a suicide prevention group’s website to pledge their support for a new initiative being launched today. The Mind our Men campaign by Pieta House asks people to pledge their support in minding the men in their lives''

This is a nationwide campaign to reduce male suicide in Ireland. Please pledge your support.



http://www.google.ie/aclk?sa=L&ai=CaE6bj6tYUZ2wBo_57AbRuIDgBvSa6LADlOW_8kfc0tXdtAEIABABUJCGgLf8_____wFg9drqg_wOyAEBqgQcT9B7eYsstebhiVN4XJt6H9O8TYeHEizEQzRLcroFEwixpen986e2AhUGIeEKHWhHALDKBQCAB6CB3gk&ei=jqtYUbGmC4bChAfojoGACw&sig=AOD64_1vGJaJxcXOjbSGGqUOJw9YfJH0vA&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQ0Qw&adurl=http://www.mindourmen.ie

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pieta%20house%20mind%20our%20men&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieta.ie%2F&ei=I6tYUZOFB4-zhAf0roDAAw&usg=AFQjCNGd28YxtM-0OCtaZhr9G0GuAiyiKA


http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pieta%20house%20mind%20our%20men&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEkQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fmind-our-men-new-campaign-aims-to-reduce-number-of-male-suicides-1.1338197&ei=I6tYUZOFB4-zhAf0roDAAw&usg=AFQjCNHhIRZ1KEub2Cwq8pQnq9Gmb92EGQ

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

We men can be our own worst enemy in cases like this.

HondaSami

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We men can be our own worst enemy in cases like this.

It is getting better, suicide is talked about now and that is a good thing, admitting there is a problem is the hardest thing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

HondaSami wrote: »

It is getting better, suicide is talked about now and that is a good thing, admitting there is a problem is the hardest thing.

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Yitzhak Rabin

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Honestly there's not much you can say. Listening is much more important.

The key is to create a culture where its not a taboo to tell your friends and family that you are not feeling well. It is getting better though.

Peregrine

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Yes I think I would, but I'd have to listen more so than talk.

The suicide rate among young men in this country is actually unbelievable and while people are becoming more aware and understanding, I can't help but to ask how many lives were lost in the amount of time it took..

HondaSami

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Yes I think I would, but I'd have to listen more so than talk. Admitting I was in that position too should make it easier.

The suicide rate among young men in this country is actually unbelievable and while people are becoming more aware and understanding, I can't help but to ask how many lives were lost in the amount of time it took..

It is unbelievable but it's better to look forward than to look back, progress is being made and it's best to concentrate on making it easier for people who are suffering.

Temptamperu

Pieta House have helped me greatly and i will always give them my money.

yop

Temptamperu wrote: »

Pieta House have helped me greatly and i will always give them my money.

Great to hear. I am very involved with suicide prevention due to the loss of my best mate and cousins. There is still a terrible lack of men bottling up and not talking.

It is a great question though, I know that we all think we are too busy and when someone does come to us we listen, but I bet 1/2 of us are still thinking about something else.

ANYTHING like this has to help, we need to drop the macho image.

One thing though which I couldn't actually answer, how do we know we need help? Most people woudln't know if they are depressed.

HondaSami

I will post this for anyone that might be interested in doing the course.



http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=console%20courses%20suicide&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.console.ie%2F&ei=UrdYUdSDLsqYhQeY2YFw&usg=AFQjCNEGlhTIjnuc2lOH9oRNcc5JQFGrBg

Suicide Prevention Training Programme
~ Question, Persuade, Refer ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Galway
Tues 16th April, 2013
National University of Ireland, Galway (NUIG)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cork
Tues 23rd April, 2013
University College Cork (UCC)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dublin
Tues 21st May, 2013
University College Dublin (UCD)

Fee €75

Larianne

HondaSami wrote: »

It is getting better, suicide is talked about now and that is a good thing, admitting there is a problem is the hardest thing.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Listen.

But then where do you go from there? I think this is the problem. The fear of not knowing. People fear they will be sent to a loony bin or others will find out that they have depression. The stigma of mental health is still there unfortunately.

Temptamperu wrote: »

Pieta House have helped me greatly and i will always give them my money.

Maybe, if you feel comfortable, give a brief outline of how you got help from Pieta and how? Just for posters who may want help but don't know what to do about it.

HondaSami wrote: »

I will post this for anyone that might be interested in doing the course.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=console%20courses%20suicide&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.console.ie%2F&ei=UrdYUdSDLsqYhQeY2YFw&usg=AFQjCNEGlhTIjnuc2lOH9oRNcc5JQFGrBg

Suicide Prevention Training Programme
~ Question, Persuade, Refer ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I did a similar training course last year, SafeTalk in college. Due to a high number of suicides within the college population last year the SU put these training sessions for class reps. Came in handy for the above.

WayneMolloy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Pint?

yop

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Pint?

Alcohol is one of the main factors in suicide, gives the person dutch courage. On the flip side of that, my mates have told me things over pints that they would never have said without.

Ruudi_Mentari

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

I would, and I could certainly help them more than most that are being paid as 'professionals' if only to push some drug aka sweep it under the carpet. Some folk are naturally deep, introverted.. melancholy tbh but if depressed is what they come forward with then you're right it may well be taken for suicidal, here.

Larianne wrote: »

People fear they will be sent to a loony bin or others will find out that they have depression. The stigma of mental health is still there unfortunately.

yeah it is; I had a weekend in one of those and my ma was so livid when she heard I was to be discharged almost as soon as I was admitted (when a top shrink intervened and apologized for my being restrained and drugged) she nearly got admitted herself!! So the stigma of even just being a bit of an introvert irl can have us labelled that, here but it was ultimately a liberating experience? and now I can be crazy til my hearts content without being you know, crazy.

Truncheon Rouge

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We men can be our own worst enemy in cases like this.

We're not as aware of our emotions and what causes them and why.
Cause we can't see them...so theyre not there....

You got to ask the little emotions why theyre there. catch them early and they act as an early warning system.

Odysseus

Larianne wrote: »

Listen.

But then where do you go from there? I think this is the problem. The fear of not knowing. People fear they will be sent to a loony bin or others will find out that they have depression. The stigma of mental health is still there unfortunately.

The main thing is to get people talking, once we get someone talking we can start to normalise the situation somewhat. A significant amount of people will experience some level of suicidal ideation at some point in their lives.

There are no guarantees here, but once people are talking about it, it reduces the risk of them acting out on it. It is the ones who don't talk that I get worried about. Just stay calm and listen, just allowing the person to get out whatever has been building can made a big difference.

Just being there for the person then getting them to contact a professional can be a significant intervention.

People can feel overwhelmed in such situations, but really all you need to do is the same thing you would do for a good friend who had a different type of problem. Listen to them and put them in contact with the people who can help them overcome the issue.

The standard response if you are concerned that someone is an immediate risk is to get them to attend A&E, but they are faced then with sitting there for up to 12 hours in order to be seen.


However, I do think the culture is slowly changing especially when I compare it to 20 years ago, that stigma and fear of being classed as mentally ill is changing.

WayneMolloy

yop wrote: »

Alcohol is one of the main factors in suicide, gives the person dutch courage. On the flip side of that, my mates have told me things over pints that they would never have said without.

True.

Id suggest a couple of pints purely due to the fact that I am useless when put in situations like described in the opening piece. A pint or two, game of pool and a chat - then take it from there.

Of course, our binge drinking culture would also be another factor in as to why a lot of males suffer with depression.

Ruudi_Mentari

Is like I always say, we will never survive unless we get a little crazy. And I don't mean bad, or nasty I mean challenging conformist norms of the mind which were always monotonously high here anyhow

VanishingActs

I'm glad to see such a great effort being put in. Two guys I went to school with have taken their own lives since we left school, both deaths left so many people devastated. I hope this campaign saves many lives.

Lone Stone

I think part of the problem is the stigma of mental health clinic's & hospitals as "looney bins" we all say it and mock it even in some regards, but i think maybe people should be educated on the services they provide some times when you find it hard to cope with life you need to get away from where ever it is you are when your in that mind set, and these place's can help you refocus and find the space to clear your mind.

I think it would be a good subject to approach in a personal development class that they have in secondary schools (well they did when i went to school /imold) to inform people about them earlier in life.

pablomakaveli

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Id listen if they wanted to talk but id strongly recommend for them to go see a GP and tell them how their feeling as well since a doctor would be of more use to them and point them in the right direction to get help.

keelanj69

HondaSami wrote: »

I will post this for anyone that might be interested in doing the course.



http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=console%20courses%20suicide&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.console.ie%2F&ei=UrdYUdSDLsqYhQeY2YFw&usg=AFQjCNEGlhTIjnuc2lOH9oRNcc5JQFGrBg

Suicide Prevention Training Programme
~ Question, Persuade, Refer ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Galway
Tues 16th April, 2013
National University of Ireland, Galway (NUIG)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cork
Tues 23rd April, 2013
University College Cork (UCC)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dublin
Tues 21st May, 2013
University College Dublin (UCD)

Fee €75

Seems worthwile. I might book a place.

Ruudi_Mentari

Lone Stone wrote: »

I think part of the problem is the stigma of mental health clinic's & hospitals as "looney bins"

but when the majority of inmates seemingly content to be there are clearly that, its not hard to make that "mistake"? I am uncomfortable with grown men roaming the wards constantly asking have I any chocolate, for instance.

WayneMolloy

mikemac1 wrote: »

Do you have a decent graduate level position?

I recently learned my next of kin (which is the Mammy I suppose!) get 4 times my not so high annual salary but still it's a tidy sum.
Of course you won't get that if you are declared a suicide case.

So what to do?
Crash a car/motorbike I suppose

Point of my useless post.
Employees in a desperate situation may look at the €€€ that their employer put on their head and decide since they are "worthless" their family would be better off with a six figure sum then themself

Six figures, well over 100,000K, a sum most people will never see in a cash transfer in their life

Never thought of that, MikeMac1.

For a lot of lads, we take it as a given that we provide for our nearest and dearest. In the current economic climate, that may not always be possible.

Some desperate people may be feeling down and worthless, for not being able to give their families the lifestyle they wish or because they are straddled with debt - they may see that as a way out.

Jaysus, this thread isnt pretty bedtime reading.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Honestly there's not much you can say. Listening is much more important.

The key is to create a culture where its not a taboo to tell your friends and family that you are not feeling well. It is getting better though.

Yeah, I know, but it's stil something I wonder if men are really able to do.

NegativeCreep

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

but when the majority of inmates seemingly content to be there are clearly that, its not hard to make that "mistake"? I am uncomfortable with grown men roaming the wards constantly asking have I any chocolate, for instance.

What are you even talking about??

Tearwave

NegativeCreep wrote: »

What are you even talking about??

He's saying there are some genuinely absolutely out of their mind, on another planet altogether, mental patients in psychiatric institutions... I think

Tearwave

Anyway my own opinion is we need laws to protect those with a medical history of mental illness (maybe they exist, pardon my ignorance) from not being eligible for applying for certain jobs like working with the public or children or air traffic control etc. Fear of screwing up your career I'd imagine would turn a lot of people off seeking help, especially since the recession began

token101

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Of course not, I'm not a trained counselor.

Aoifums

Tearwave wrote: »

Anyway my own opinion is we need laws to protect those with a medical history of mental illness (maybe they exist, pardon my ignorance) from not being eligible for applying for certain jobs like working with the public or children or air traffic control etc. Fear of screwing up your career I'd imagine would turn a lot of people off seeking help, especially since the recession began

What? Are you saying you don't want people with a history of mental health issues working with kids? Because they currently can. You can choose to disclose (or not) your past when applying for a job. People can and do recover from these things. Someone could have been depressed to the point of being suicidal five years ago and be alright now.
And people applying for high stress jobs like air traffic control are carefully vetted. They can't afford to take a chance. It's all down to how a person deals with stress. Even if their mental health is alright, they mightn't make it in the job.

Duzzer

Tell you the truth "mind our men" sounds a bit patronising or something. Unpopular,thing to say but i know there are others out there that might agree

Ruudi_Mentari

Tearwave wrote: »

He's saying there are some genuinely absolutely out of their mind, on another planet altogether, mental patients in psychiatric institutions... I think

not necaserrily... if even just wards for the perceivedly depressed, but that and suicide really shouldn't be misconstrued or spoken as alike in my view -

and neither should be admitted to a looney bin, that just compounds that shìt.. well suicidals maybe.

token101

Duzzer wrote: »

Tell you the truth "mind our men" sounds a bit patronising or something. Unpopular,thing to say but i know there are others out there that might agree

I think it's a great idea to encourage people to seek professional help for mental illness. I think it's a very, very bad idea to encourage people to talk to family and friends about those problems. It could make it exponentially worse.

Duzzer

token101 wrote: »

I think it's a great idea to encourage people to seek professional help for mental illness. I think it's a very, very bad idea to encourage people to talk to family and friends about those problems. It could make it exponentially worse.

Mind our men sounds like something someone with too much time on twitter or Facebook would,make up. Pure middle class nonsense

Ruudi_Mentari

Yeah I don't need minding, I'm a stone cold killer on the prowl!

Duzzer

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

Yeah I don't need minding, I'm a stone cold killer on the prowl!

Zoiks!

Aoifums

While I like the idea and I really hope that it helps people, I'm not sure if there's help available. Obviously some friends will be better than others at listening but I've had some really awful experiences with the psychiatric services here. They were able to do fvck all and there was a 7 month waiting list for therapy. I knows that's only my area but I hate the thought that someone would actually turn to their friends and then realise there's not much help for them beyond that.
I wasn't trying to be that much of a downer. Hard to stay upbeat given the topic.

UCDVet

I was sick back in Jan. sore throat and that darn thing in the back of my throat was so big it was touching my tongue. I flipped out and went to a doctor. Paid 60 euro...got an antibiotic.

Took that, got better-ish. But my throat was still swollen, making it hard to sleep at night. I go back in again in Feb after it wasn't getting any better....

New doc at the same place, looks at it and goes, 'ahhh yeah - well, you were sick. That's normal. Give it a week or two and it'll be fine'. As if I were crazy to think I shouldn't have my uvula touching my tongue 24/7. He writes me the same prescription as before, and tells me to wait two weeks, then take the prescription again.

I do. Nothing improves.

I go back again, in March. 3rd time. Paid 180 euro so far. Same doc as last time, looks at me and says, 'Oh - you have a deviated septum from sports' (wtf? I don't play sports and I didn't have it before?). He tells me to spray water up my nose for a week and if it isn't better he'll send me to a specialist.

I'm still waiting on the referral.

And this is for a problem anyone can visibly see. I can't imagine what it would be like trying to get medical treatment for something the doc couldn't see. At this point, I wish I'd never went. I'd still be sick, but I'd have 180 euro more.

suicide_circus

All for suicide prevention measures but not sure if the gender focus is helpful?

In many cases the pressure to be a "man" and to fulfil "man roles" is a contributing element.

Sure **** it, if it saves one life its all worth it.

HondaSami

suicide_circus wrote: »

All for suicide prevention measures but not sure if the gender focus is helpful?

''Even though awareness of suicide has increased, the number of people who take their own lives in Ireland continues to grow. Most of them are men. Despite this, our figures show that 53% of people who use our services are women and 47% are men. Deeper analysis shows that it is mainly women who make the appointments for men''.

''Men’s typical characteristics are of strength, logical thinking and protectiveness. They don’t usually seek help for themselves and if they do it’s at the point of crisis. The reasons for their reluctance are because they believe that they can fix the situation or that it will pass''


It's not about gender, it's a fact men are not as good at seeking help as women are.

suicide_circus

HondaSami wrote: »

''Even though awareness of suicide has increased, the number of people who take their own lives in Ireland continues to grow. Most of them are men. Despite this, our figures show that 53% of people who use our services are women and 47% are men. Deeper analysis shows that it is mainly women who make the appointments for men''.

''Men’s typical characteristics are of strength, logical thinking and protectiveness. They don’t usually seek help for themselves and if they do it’s at the point of crisis. The reasons for their reluctance are because they believe that they can fix the situation or that it will pass''


It's not about gender, it's a fact men are not as good at seeking help as women are.

You give quotes about a gender and its characteristics and then say its not about gender?

HondaSami

suicide_circus wrote: »

You give quotes about a gender and its characteristics and then say its not about gender?

suicide_circus wrote: »

All for suicide prevention measures but not sure if the gender focus is helpful?

Sorry if i misunderstood you, what did you mean by this?

suicide_circus

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

HondaSami

suicide_circus wrote: »

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

Why is it questionable ?

Temptamperu

suicide_circus wrote: »

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

The Gender focus is because of the amount of young men who have depression with suicidal tendancies.

The Road Runner

For most people all you can offer is an ear and hope that they find a way out. Sometimes people have just had enough of life. I wish people considering suicide would just talk to at least one person before following through. I think this is a great song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVQ36NhbMk

starlings

I almost started a thread on Mind Our Men! after hearing a representative from Pieta House speak about it on the radio. I didn't because my thoughts were a bit tangled and tbh I knew they'd be unpopular. Reading this thread is good for sorting that out.

I don't like the gender focus on recruiting women as helpers. I understand the figures of male suicide are far greater than female, but this is just telling women that on top of the care we already give to family and friends, on top of the nagging sh1t society will throw at you about anything from child-rearing fads to cellulite, you are now responsible for men's mental health. What does this campaign propose to do to help a woman who signed up and now blames herself because her care was not enough to stop her loved one from killing himself?

But that's not even my unpopular opinion. All of the suicides I have known have been different. One was a young man, so badly injured in a car crash that his quality of life was ruined. It was sad, terribly sad, but I thought - fair enough, xxxx, rest in peace. Another was a family member whose illness manifested itself in cruelty to everyone around him. I was actually relieved.

It's not just the people committing suicide who are unique; the people around them each have individual relationships with them and with each other, of varying degrees of trust and love, so I don't see how it will help to burden these people with the task of preventing a suicide. Especially not when the person at risk of suicide will always have the final say, and the people around them will always look to themselves for reasons that do not apply to the troubled, clouded or sick mind.

HondaSami

starlings wrote: »

I don't like the gender focus on recruiting women as helpers. I understand the figures of male suicide are far greater than female, but this is just telling women that on top of the care we already give to family and friends, on top of the nagging sh1t society will throw at you about anything from child-rearing fads to cellulite, you are now responsible for men's mental health. What does this campaign propose to do to help a woman who signed up and now blames herself because her care was not enough to stop her loved one from killing himself?

Everyone will see it differently, for me it's a way of saying men need tlc as well. I don't see it as telling women they are responsible for the men in their lives but a reminder we are all vulnerable and to look out for each other. Men are seen as tough and it can be difficult for them to ask for help.

It's human nature to feel responsible and to blame ourselves if someone you love takes their own life, there is help for families.
No one should blame themselves because sometimes even with all the help in the world some people make a choice and it is their choice at the end of the day.

starlings

HondaSami wrote: »

Everyone will see it differently, for me it's a way of saying men need tlc as well. I don't see it as telling women they are responsible for the men in their lives but a reminder we are all vulnerable and to look out for each other. Men are seen as tough and it can be difficult for them to ask for help.

It's human nature to feel responsible and to blame ourselves if someone you love takes their own life, there is help for families.
No one should blame themselves because sometimes even with all the help in the world some people make a choice and it is their choice at the end of the day.

In the RTÉ radio interview, the Pieta House representative referred to women's capacity for nurture. It sounded to me that they were hoping to harness this reputed capacity to fill the gaps in professional counselling and psychiatric services, which is both patronising and dodgy.

Anyone who signs up with a particular loved one in mind is already very vulnerable to feelings of inadequacy and guilt. They'd better have an iron-clad training and backup system in place because "tlc" is not easy to prescribe, administer or monitor.

Many double drownings occur when someone goes into the water to save someone else, without a lifeline, so I think we should be very careful here.

Ruudi_Mentari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_LRqO2kaVQ

DarkJager

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_LRqO2kaVQ

Wow, that might be the worst attempt at music I've heard in a long time.