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Comments

  • #52
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    starlings wrote: »

    Many double drownings occur when someone goes into the water to save someone else, without a lifeline, so I think we should be very careful here.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this or the relevance of it.


  • #53
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    starlings wrote: »
    Many double drownings occur when someone goes into the water to save someone else, without a lifeline, so I think we should be very careful here.
    HondaSami wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean by this or the relevance of it.

    that encouraging people to actively help their loved ones who may be at risk of suicide is putting them in a dangerous position.


  • #54
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,307 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

    Why? i think the current figure is sometimng like 7/8 out of 10 sucides being male. I agree that it shouldnt be completely one dimensional as far as gender goes but when the figures are that stacked surely something has gone wrong somewhere and the larger emphasis needs to be on men?


  • #55
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    starlings wrote: »
    that encouraging people to actively help their loved ones who may be at risk of suicide is putting them in a dangerous position.

    I'm not sure i agree with you, is it not natural to want to help loved ones? Are you talking about drowning in particular?

    Would you not help a stranger in distress?


  • #56
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    HondaSami wrote: »
    I'm not sure i agree with you, is it not natural to want to help loved ones? Are you talking about drowning in particular?

    Would you not help a stranger in distress?

    Of course it's natural to want to help a loved one. But it's dangerous to assume that it's within your power to fix them. You run the risk of further alienating them (if they start to see themselves as a burden on you, or that you are nagging), and of hurting yourself by taking on an impossible responsibility if your efforts turn out to be in vain.

    The drowning analogy is to say that you shouldn't rush to someone's aid without first figuring out your way back.


  • #57
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

    Pints?


  • #58
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    starlings wrote: »
    Of course it's natural to want to help a loved one. But it's dangerous to assume that it's within your power to fix them. You run the risk of further alienating them (if they start to see themselves as a burden on you, or that you are nagging), and of hurting yourself by taking on an impossible responsibility if your efforts turn out to be in vain.

    The drowning analogy is to say that you shouldn't rush to someone's aid without first figuring out your way back.


    I don't think anyone has the power to fix someone and this is not about that, it's simply asking people to look out for the men in their lives who may need help.
    Telling one person can give people the confidence to talk with other people and then there will be a network of family/friends involved who can share the load.


  • #59
    Circling the Drain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Circling the Drain


    This talking to people doesn't always work.
    I attempted suicide some years ago by exhaust fumes. It took an awful long time and it was quite hard to maintain my courage for the time required so I failed. I should have chosen a quicker option. Eventually one night when I had drink taken I admitted it to my wife and my only brother and his wife. Nobody was supportive in any way. Soon after my brother broke off our business partnership and actively set out to destroy the part I was left with. I haven't spoken to him or her in a long long time now. It wasn't long before I was financially ruined. Some time later my wife and I had an argument and in a fit of anger she deliberately blurted the whole thing out in front of our two sons. She said they had the right to know what kind of a coward their father really was. I now have no brother, no money, a wife that despises me, I don't know what my sons think of me they never spoke of it again. I have no confidence, pride or personal dignity left. My life is a day to day hell. I don't even have the courage any more to attempt to end it. I would not be the first to advise anybody to talk things out. People will judge you and they will never forget. There will always be a doubt. There will always be a cloud over you. The best you can hope for is that either you will find a way through it under your own steam or that at least your end will be quick and painless. That's just my experience, make of it as you will.


  • #60
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    These are all failings on others' behalf Circle The Drain,not yours!
    You owe them nothing,only to yourself,and that is to give yourself the chance to approach your sons someday when it hurts a lot less.


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  • #61
    Ava_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Ava_e


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    These are all failings on others' behalf Circle The Drain,not yours!
    .


    Well said.

    Circle The Drain you are not a failure the attitude of others failed you. You are still here fighting, please remember there is hope, there is help and there is change.

    "Sometimes even to live is an act of courage ".

    Stay strong, buddy.


  • #62
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    This talking to people doesn't always work.
    I attempted suicide some years ago by exhaust fumes. It took an awful long time and it was quite hard to maintain my courage for the time required so I failed. I should have chosen a quicker option. Eventually one night when I had drink taken I admitted it to my wife and my only brother and his wife. Nobody was supportive in any way. Soon after my brother broke off our business partnership and actively set out to destroy the part I was left with. I haven't spoken to him or her in a long long time now. It wasn't long before I was financially ruined. Some time later my wife and I had an argument and in a fit of anger she deliberately blurted the whole thing out in front of our two sons. She said they had the right to know what kind of a coward their father really was. I now have no brother, no money, a wife that despises me, I don't know what my sons think of me they never spoke of it again. I have no confidence, pride or personal dignity left. My life is a day to day hell. I don't even have the courage any more to attempt to end it. I would not be the first to advise anybody to talk things out. People will judge you and they will never forget. There will always be a doubt. There will always be a cloud over you. The best you can hope for is that either you will find a way through it under your own steam or that at least your end will be quick and painless. That's just my experience, make of it as you will.

    I'm sorry this has happened to you and your family should have been more supportive, have you looked for help in other areas?


  • #63
    Circling the Drain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Circling the Drain


    No I haven't approached anybody else for help. I learned that lesson the hard way. If the people I know and loved couldn't find it in their hearts to help when I needed it most why would a stranger? Even if a stranger did listen today how would that change the way I am viewed by my so-called family? I would still be a leper to them. God only knows how many people they have told. If they didn't care enough to help would they care enough to respect my privacy? I don't think so. I think some people in what used to be our social circle were told so I don't see them anymore. I live without social contact outside work and my job is solitary enough to start with. I never take conversations past the impersonal level any more. I pass the time of day but that's about it. I have totally withdrawn at this stage. I can no longer handle close personal contact in any form. I would love to have someone to confide in but at the same I know I am never going to trust anybody enough to do so. I can only say these things here because I feel anonymous.


  • #64
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    HondaSami wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has the power to fix someone and this is not about that, it's simply asking people to look out for the men in their lives who may need help.
    Telling one person can give people the confidence to talk with other people and then there will be a network of family/friends involved who can share the load.

    I think it's a nice theory, like Christianity or Communism, but unless you involve doctors and counsellors, you might be multiplying the load rather than dividing it.

    You're assuming that people on the verge of suicide are like birds with broken wings, not complex people who may have caused damage to those around them, or pushed them away, to have gotten to that stage. Looking out for people is something we should all be doing anyway, as long as it includes remembering to step back and refer to professionals if it looks like we're getting sucked in to a codependent or enabling relationship.


  • #65
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    No I haven't approached anybody else for help. I learned that lesson the hard way. If the people I know and loved couldn't find it in their hearts to help when I needed it most why would a stranger? Even if a stranger did listen today how would that change the way I am viewed by my so-called family? I would still be a leper to them. God only knows how many people they have told. If they didn't care enough to help would they care enough to respect my privacy? I don't think so. I think some people in what used to be our social circle were told so I don't see them anymore. I live without social contact outside work and my job is solitary enough to start with. I never take conversations past the impersonal level any more. I pass the time of day but that's about it. I have totally withdrawn at this stage. I can no longer handle close personal contact in any form. I would love to have someone to confide in but at the same I know I am never going to trust anybody enough to do so. I can only say these things here because I feel anonymous.

    Have you considered on line help forums? It is good to talk and even if it's on here it might help.
    You should contact one of the help lines.


  • #66
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    No I haven't approached anybody else for help. I learned that lesson the hard way. If the people I know and loved couldn't find it in their hearts to help when I needed it most why would a stranger? Even if a stranger did listen today how would that change the way I am viewed by my so-called family? I would still be a leper to them. God only knows how many people they have told. If they didn't care enough to help would they care enough to respect my privacy? I don't think so. I think some people in what used to be our social circle were told so I don't see them anymore. I live without social contact outside work and my job is solitary enough to start with. I never take conversations past the impersonal level any more. I pass the time of day but that's about it. I have totally withdrawn at this stage. I can no longer handle close personal contact in any form. I would love to have someone to confide in but at the same I know I am never going to trust anybody enough to do so. I can only say these things here because I feel anonymous.

    a stranger who is professionally trained to assist people in your situation will be better able to help you, CtD, because they will be objective and they will focus on you as a person rather than an existing relationship they had with you. If you don't feel up to seeing your GP, why not call the Samaritans first - where you can be anonymous too - and take it from there? I hope you will find some help soon.


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  • #67
    mackg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    HondaSami wrote: »
    I will post this for anyone that might be interested in doing the course.



    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=console%20courses%20suicide&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.console.ie%2F&ei=UrdYUdSDLsqYhQeY2YFw&usg=AFQjCNEGlhTIjnuc2lOH9oRNcc5JQFGrBg

    Suicide Prevention Training Programme
    ~ Question, Persuade, Refer ~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Galway
    Tues 16th April, 2013
    National University of Ireland, Galway (NUIG)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Cork
    Tues 23rd April, 2013
    University College Cork (UCC)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Dublin
    Tues 21st May, 2013
    University College Dublin (UCD)

    Fee €75

    Thanks for posting this. I know at least one person who will definitely take a place on it.


  • #68
    Circling the Drain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Circling the Drain


    HondaSami wrote: »
    Have you considered on line help forums? It is good to talk and even if it's on here it might help.
    You should contact one of the help lines.
    This is the first time I have broken my silence, I'm not even sure I should have.


  • #69
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    This is the first time I have broken my silence, I'm not even sure I should have.

    Does it feel good to talk?


  • #70
    Circling the Drain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Circling the Drain


    I'm not sure to be honest. I feel exposed.


  • #71
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    I'm not sure to be honest. I feel exposed.

    don't, what happened with your family was a bad experience, don't let it hold you back, not everybody is like that, and you were very brave to post here, be proud of yourself for taking that massive step.

    some people can listen and be helpful, give the helplines a chance, they are there for you whenever you need them.


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  • #72
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    I'm not sure to be honest. I feel exposed.

    http://www.google.ie/aclk?sa=L&ai=CGVCChtNaUenGEoe1hAfhuIH4Dtea2MoBp6qg6Qjs8PyeARAFKAVQ1sPe_vv_____AWD12uqD_A7IAQGqBCFP0NuRIu5AooDVaBNq-Ob0B_PiJOMQXU-65Sdcjc7sNXOAB5eNqgM&num=8&sig=AOD64_1aR1wE9nbxxyMdffzs_zTPRovvTQ&ved=0CL0BENEM&adurl=http://www.samaritans.org/your_emotional_health/feeling_low.aspx

    Think about contacting the samaritans.


  • #73
    Circling the Drain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Circling the Drain


    Thanks for the kind replies but this is a far as I can go for now. I couldn't face talking to anybody.


  • #74
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    Thanks for the kind replies but this is a far as I can go for now. I couldn't face talking to anybody.

    The beauty of writing online is that you don't have to take part in the conversation in real time, like in a face to face or phone conversation. You can think out what you want to say as slowly and carefully as you like before posting. (This might be helpful in itself.) Other users will respond when they are online, so you might think of your post as "put to bed", then wake up in the morning to some helpful responses. At the very least, you'll know you're not alone.

    [Mods, please correct my post if it's inaccurate advice]

    If you're new here and haven't already seen it, you might like to go over to the Personal Issues forum:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=127

    or here on AH

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75955119

    You don't have to post until you're ready, but reading how lots of other people in your situation are getting on might help.


  • #75
    Circling the Drain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Circling the Drain


    Thank you, you are very kind. I'll read those links.


  • #76
    who_me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Circling the Drain wrote: »
    This talking to people doesn't always work.
    I attempted suicide some years ago by exhaust fumes. It took an awful long time and it was quite hard to maintain my courage for the time required so I failed. I should have chosen a quicker option. Eventually one night when I had drink taken I admitted it to my wife and my only brother and his wife. Nobody was supportive in any way. Soon after my brother broke off our business partnership and actively set out to destroy the part I was left with. I haven't spoken to him or her in a long long time now. It wasn't long before I was financially ruined. Some time later my wife and I had an argument and in a fit of anger she deliberately blurted the whole thing out in front of our two sons. She said they had the right to know what kind of a coward their father really was. I now have no brother, no money, a wife that despises me, I don't know what my sons think of me they never spoke of it again. I have no confidence, pride or personal dignity left. My life is a day to day hell. I don't even have the courage any more to attempt to end it. I would not be the first to advise anybody to talk things out. People will judge you and they will never forget. There will always be a doubt. There will always be a cloud over you. The best you can hope for is that either you will find a way through it under your own steam or that at least your end will be quick and painless. That's just my experience, make of it as you will.

    Really sorry to hear that! That sounds like an exceptionally bad experience.

    In my case, I've suffered from anxiety all my life (really affected my work, and have never really had a love life), and I decided not to share it with my friends or family. I'm not saying it's the right choice, but I knew it was something that wasn't going to be fixed overnight and I didn't want to be an endlessly complaining friend ("I'm bad today". "Bad again today". "Yeah, still bad..").

    That's why going to see a psychiatrist, and then a CBT therapist helped me so much; because I didn't feel bad sharing all my problems with a complete stranger, whereas it would be more difficult with a friend/family member. I can't recommend highly enough getting professional help.

    BUT, that's just my experience. Others might find talking to friends/family is more effective. Or maybe the friend/family member will give you the shove to get medical assistance.


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