Neuter dog at what age?

Kildafornia

Hi, we picked up a beautiful abandoned Gordon setter two weeks ago. Have him chipped now and we love him. I feel the responsible thing is to get him neutered, but as he was a stray we have no history, and no way of knowing his age. He is pretty big, but very puppy-like in behaviour, and has a puppy bark (high pitched). I would hate to get him neutered too young. Any advice on telling his age, or should we just wait a few months?

SillyMangoX

He is absolutely beautiful! You may be able to tell his age by looking at his teeth, if they are still baby teeth then he is under 6 months (doubtful), if there are a mixture of baby and adult teeth then around 6-9 months, but being honest he looks like a good enough size to get neutered at the moment. If you bring him to the vet they might be able to have a better estimate at his age and then recommend when they think you should get him done, but anything from 6 months up is okay!

anniehoo

+1 to what SillyMango says,but unless you're used to judging dogs ages by their teeth, it's best to get a vet to check them out. Going by your photo, he's well above the 6mth+ mark & that is acceptable to neuter male dogs.

It's not compulsory to neuter your dog remember that, but is advised if you feel it's in yours and theirs best interests.

tk123

Don't just go by the bark either - my friend's setter will be 4 this year and still has a squeaky bark lol

Tranceypoo

Agree with SillyMango but also wanted to say - he's GORGEOUS!!!

Hooked

Lovely dog... Just wanted to add:

Are both testicles descended and in the scrotum? If one is not, it's a much different op to a straight forward neuter. Recovery time is far greater and movement restricted for a few weeks at least.

If your dog is 'cryptorchid'.

ISDW

Gorgeous boy, I love Gordon Setters. No advice to add, other than to ask the vet for an estimate of his age.

gimmick

Lovely dog.

I never knew what a Gordon was until recently, when I was walking my fella who has similar colouring a man came up to me and asked "is that a Gordon?". Mishearing him I said "No, its Rufus". he just gave me a sympathetic look and said "A Gordon Terrier!".

ISDW

gimmick wrote: »

Lovely dog.

I never knew what a Gordon was until recently, when I was walking my fella who has similar colouring a man came up to me and asked "is that a Gordon?". Mishearing him I said "No, its Rufus". he just gave me a sympathetic look and said "A Gordon Terrier!".

I wonder if anyone has ever called a Gordon 'Gordon'?

bluecherry74

He is BEAUTIFUL!!! I adore setters (I have 2 English Setters) and definitely want a Gordon some day.

Setters are generally very playful and puppyish, even as adults, so don't let that fool you. you What weight is he and is he gaining weight? I think adult male Gordons would be at least 25kg, but can weigh quite a bit more than that. If he was abandoned he may have been underweight so I would wait a while and see if his weight levels off. Also have the vet check him out to get an estimate of his age.

I got my male neutered at 15 months. As anniehoo said, it's not compulsory but my guy was marking in the house and constantly humping my neutered female. After a lot of thought I decided to go for it, and haven't regretted it at all as it's pretty much eliminated those issues.

DBB

gimmick wrote: »

he just gave me a sympathetic look and said "A Gordon Terrier!".

Lol, if he was trying to correct you, I'd have expected him to get the breed name right!
Beautiful dog op, just lovely. However, I'd also say that there's no need to race into neutering him. If you're responsible and not intending on letting your dog get into a situation to inseminate female dogs, and if his hormones are not causing a problem, then there's no hurry, indeed not even a compulsion on you to neuter him at all. Neutering tends to destroy the Setter coat.
Also, behaviourally speaking, if a young male dog is lacking confidence, neutering him can set him back even further. I don't know if this applies to your dog but either way, don't neuter him just becuse you feel you *have to*. I am a neutering advocate, but have somewhat moderated my views based on various things, including that I think it's not the responsible owners of entire dogs who are contributing to the unwanted puppy population, and not necessary for people to race off and remove their dog's sexual organs without fully knowing ALL of the pros and cons, not just the sometimes wildly exaggerated claims made by the strident pro-neutering lobby.
Best of luck with your new dog op, he's a stunner!

gimmick

DBB wrote: »

Lol, if he was trying to correct you, I'd have expected him to get the breed name right!

That was a typo by me. I was being correctly corrected.

Bullseye1

Beautiful colouring and congrats on your new family member.

DBB

gimmick wrote: »

That was a typo by me. I was being correctly corrected.

Damn! I thought you had the high ground on him there for a while :-D

timshel.

DBB wrote: »

Also, behaviourally speaking, if a young male dog is lacking confidence, neutering him can set him back even further.

On that point DBB, i have a 3 year old King Charles X who is very lacking in confidence and very nervous. I have him booked to be neutered on Thurs. Would you think that this is a bad idea?
He can get somewhat dog aggressive, but generally is ok with other dogs. The main reason im getting him neutered is to curtail this. although it doesnt happen often enough to be much of a problem.

I just have never heard this to be a downside of neutering.

borderlinemeath

OP he is gorgeous!

I have two Irish setters and my male was neutered sometime around the 9 month mark (guestimate as he was abandoned and rescued) and his coat has suffered for it. It goes 'woolly' for want of a better word - ie it loses it's shine and is like unspun wool. You can see it here particularly on his back and his legs. This was last autumn and it's improved a good bit since then with raw feeding.



However, I have met some intact males that react badly to other intact males. Another problem can be marking territory indoors or other inappropriate places, (not to be confused with not being housetrained) And all intact males will react and try and get after a female in heat. But it's up to you to assess your dog and see just how much he may react or if he is a marker. Also to make sure that if he's outside in the garden that he's securely contained - an intact dog after a bitch in heat will burrow, dig, climb, jump insane heights and can injure themselves if they get a whiff of a bitch. Not to mention the danger of getting knocked down if he gets out.

bluecherry74

Good points about the Setter coat and neutering! My female was neutered at 6 months and looks a bit like a sheep, although like borderlinemeath I've found it's improved a lot since I started feeding raw. My male's coat is still lovely and sleek, but he's a Llewellin type setter and has a much finer, flatter coat than most other setters.

fatmammycat

I've an intact GSD who is 13 months and his coat is so sleek and shiny compared to my friend's GSD, roughly same age- less woolly. It could be down to raw feeding, but I imagine hormones play a part too. Regarding other behaviours, he neither marks at home nor is aggressive with other dogs. His face has also become more 'masculine' than her dog too, blockier rather than foxy, if that makes sense.

Frankly, if you can keep your dog secure and their tempeprament is sound, I think there's a lot to be said for letting larger male dogs keep their testicles.


Either way OP, your new dog is an absolute beaut!

borderlinemeath

fatmammycat wrote: »

I've an intact GSD who is 13 months and his coat is so sleek and shiny compared to my friend's GSD, roughly same age- less woolly. It could be down to raw feeding, but I imagine hormones play a part too. Regarding other behaviours, he neither marks at home nor is aggressive with other dogs. His face has also become more 'masculine' than her dog too, blockier rather than foxy, if that makes sense.

Frankly, if you can keep your dog secure and their tempeprament is sound, I think there's a lot to be said for letting larger male dogs keep their testicles.


Either way OP, your new dog is an absolute beaut!

Just on the marking, some dogs don't mark their own home, but will mark when visiting others. Your guy knows his own house is his territory but he may mark in other peoples homes if there's other dogs scent there. I've mentioned this before but there's a dog I encounter on the beach who is a demon for marking people if they smell of dogs. He's marked me and my friend when we stop and talk to his owner.:o

Again, some dogs aren't aggressive but can become defensively aggressive if they encounter another intact male. I've seen it here with two dogs that can happily play outside, and go on walks together, they'll tolerate each other but then one 'cornered' the other in the kitchen and it was the cornered dog that snapped first, purely defensively. But both have to be watched 100% of the time if not separated.

I agree that the larger breeds should be left later to prevent osteosarcoma but there's always exceptions. Bloody hormones!

Knine

He looks lovely but looks more like a Gordon Setter cross.

Another aspect of neutering is thst it can affect coat texture making the coat more wooly then the natural texture.

DBB

timshel. wrote: »

On that point DBB, i have a 3 year old King Charles X who is very lacking in confidence and very nervous. I have him booked to be neutered on Thurs. Would you think that this is a bad idea?
He can get somewhat dog aggressive, but generally is ok with other dogs. The main reason im getting him neutered is to curtail this. although it doesnt happen often enough to be much of a problem.

I just have never heard this to be a down.side of neutering.

To be honest, and bearing in mind I haven't seen your dog in action, by the law of averages it's pretty unlikely that your little guy's problem is being caused by his testosterone. In cases of dog-dog aggression, it's far more likely to be a learned behaviour, or possible lack of early socialization with certain dogs, perhaps in certain situations? In addition, a shy dog can be easily convinced to be overly wary of certain things (often other dogs, kids, and men): place such a dog in certain situations, say where he can't get himself away from a scary encounter, and the shyness, understandably, turns to aggression. This may explain why he only sparks off from time to time.
The testosterone *may* be helping to sustain the dog-dog aggressive behaviour to some extent, but I wouldn't be rushing to the conclusion that neutering him will have any effect, because it's more than likely not a testosterone-related problem, or cause. I meet so many owners who've been advised to neuter their aggressive dog as if it's some sort of panacea, but it most certainly is not... If the behavioural problem is not testosterone-related, how can neutering work?
On the contrary, nervous, underconfident dogs often benefit from leaving the testicles alone, because testosterone helps to promote more confident behaviour: remove them and this effect is certainly lost!
Instead of neutering just yet, I'd be looking very strongly at getting some professional help in, as this sort of problem tends to respond far better to a behaviour modification program. But do get someone who's qualified to take behavioural cases, there are a lot of self-titled cowboys out there!

Kildafornia

Thanks a mill for all the comments, he is indeed a handsome lad! Your comments give me a lot of food for thought. A wooly coat would be a pity, but I would be much more concerned that he loses confidence. He seems to be pretty confident around other dogs, even holds his own with my neighbour who has 9! (All neutered btw).

The reason I considered neutering is because we live on a few acres which he can easily escape from. I can't bear to tie him down or cage him all day, athough he is very happy in the house with me all day (I work from home) providing he has lots of run time. He will report back to me every 10 mins if I am gardening, and will even return to my whistle (such a good dog!). But he ran off last week and ended up 7 miles away, thankfully picked up by a friendly family.

Long post I know, just wanted to see what you thought of my situation, is it a good case for the N word? I'd love to leave him intact, but it's so easy for him to escape. Is it possible he just ran off in week one because he wasn't fully settled yet?

ps. Can't miss another opportunity to show him off!

SillyMangoX

In a case of straying then maybe it would be best have him neutered, it would cut out his need to escape to go after bitches plus if he ever did escape at least he couldn't do any harm, puppy wise! Though there are advantages and disadvantages for neutering so it would be something you should really have a think about. But my goodness he is such a handsome boy!!!

DBB

Kildafornia wrote: »

A wooly coat would be a pity, but I would be much more concerned that he loses confidence. He seems to be pretty confident around other dogs,

Please don't take what I said re confidence and neutering out of context! I specifically said that a nervous, shy or underconfident dog can get worse if neutered, but I did not say that neutering causes a dog to lose confidence if he already has it. It is really important that anyone reading this understands the difference! If your dog does not lack confidence, do not use this as an excuse not to neuter.

As for reasons which would guide me to make the "don't neuter" choice, you're missing a hugely important one which I also specifically mentioned... You cannot stop him from inseminating female dogs, nor any of the associated by-products of same, including straying. I'd urge you not to rely on neutering as a way to stop him straying. It can work, but as a gundog, there is plenty more than an in-heat female to lure him away from you. Neutered or not, I'd be investing in some fencing so you don't get a repeat escape incident.

Kildafornia

Ok thanks one and all, good advice all round

fatmammycat

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Just on the marking, some dogs don't mark their own home, but will mark when visiting others. Your guy knows his own house is his territory but he may mark in other peoples homes if there's other dogs scent there. I've mentioned this before but there's a dog I encounter on the beach who is a demon for marking people if they smell of dogs. He's marked me and my friend when we stop and talk to his owner.:o

Again, some dogs aren't aggressive but can become defensively aggressive if they encounter another intact male. I've seen it here with two dogs that can happily play outside, and go on walks together, they'll tolerate each other but then one 'cornered' the other in the kitchen and it was the cornered dog that snapped first, purely defensively. But both have to be watched 100% of the time if not separated.

I agree that the larger breeds should be left later to prevent osteosarcoma but there's always exceptions. Bloody hormones!

Some excellent points. I too have been peed on by a intact male (lab). He seemed rather pleased with himself too, the fecker.

fatmammycat

Kildafornia wrote: »

Thanks a mill for all the comments, he is indeed a handsome lad! Your comments give me a lot of food for thought. A wooly coat would be a pity, but I would be much more concerned that he loses confidence. He seems to be pretty confident around other dogs, even holds his own with my neighbour who has 9! (All neutered btw).

The reason I considered neutering is because we live on a few acres which he can easily escape from. I can't bear to tie him down or cage him all day, athough he is very happy in the house with me all day (I work from home) providing he has lots of run time. He will report back to me every 10 mins if I am gardening, and will even return to my whistle (such a good dog!). But he ran off last week and ended up 7 miles away, thankfully picked up by a friendly family.

Long post I know, just wanted to see what you thought of my situation, is it a good case for the N word? I'd love to leave him intact, but it's so easy for him to escape. Is it possible he just ran off in week one because he wasn't fully settled yet?

ps. Can't miss another opportunity to show him off!

Oh if he can escape easily, neuter. It will help enormously with his will to roam. I live in the city, my garden is walled all the way round with large side gates, my lad is going no where unless with me. Roaming dogs can be injured, shot, poisoned, stolen...ugh, even thinking about what can happen gives me the willies.