Verifying age (Alcohol related)

ZENER

Can anyone point me to any relevant Irish legislation regarding verifying a persons age before being permitted on to a website or use an application where alcohol advertising is the primary purpose.

I have a thread in Software & Web Development looking for someone to help with the programming end of things. From what I can see the whole exercise is futile given the user could simply enter details giving an over 18 result.

So what I need to find out is how strict does this verification need to be ? Are there specific requirements or is a simple "Are You Over 18 ? Y/N" sufficient ?

Thanks all !

Ken

CIARAN_BOYLE

I know that to sell alcohol the only acceptable form of verification is Garda ID however I can't see a way of producing Garda ID online.

Assuming that you aren't a big player in the drinks market I would reckon that its safe to follow industry practice. IE Guiness and other similar websites don't require any verification other than the word of the user

ZENER

The company we're dealing with is indeed a major player with sales all over the world, even their own website asks for DOB before allowing visitors to proceed. As you say they are relying totally on the honesty of that visitor !

That's fine for simple entry to a website where the visitor is anonymous, in this instance though the user could be photographed and the picture could be placed on social media with the drinks company branding. This is why I'm concerned and looking for information.

Thanks

Ken

Peregrinus

You'll presumably be looking for explicit consent from the user to being photographed and having his photograph used in this way. Your problem, obviously, is that if the user is under 18 you may not be able to rely on his consent if your use of the photograph is challenged or objected to. Plus, there could be signficant adverse publicity for the client if it emerges that they are using photographs of minors because they failed to put in place effective steps to verify the ages of participants.

It's not the case that there is any legislation saying how rigorously your client must screen for age. Rather, there's a rule and/or a company policy saying that they mustn't use photographs of anyone under 18, and it's up to them to decide what steps they will take to avoid breaching this legislation.

Step 1, obviously, is for an actual human being to review all photographs before they are used, and discard any belonging to anyone who looks as if they could be under 18. It's already the case for alcohol ads on television and in the cinema that people featured in them not only have to be over 18, but have to look it too, so the practicability of making such a judgment is already established.

Another step you could take is to require users to verify their identity by submitting credit card details. It is of course possible that someone under 18 would have a credit card, but most do not, and the population of credit card holders is almost entirely made up of over-18-year-olds. Requiring credit card details will of course greatly reduce the number of people who participate, but that is a price your client may be willing to pay in order to minimise the risk of inadvertantly using the photographs of minors in the campaign.

ZENER

Thanks Peregrinus. Initially the client wanted the images posted directly to their FB page but because of exactly what you've said above we convinced them of bad an idea this would be. They are now going to review the images prior to any Social Media or public disclosure.

It's not the case that there is any legislation saying how rigorously your client must screen for age. Rather, there's a rule and/or a company policy saying that they mustn't use photographs of anyone under 18, and it's up to them to decide what steps they will take to avoid breaching this legislation.

This is kind of what I thought, so basically the company can decide their own criteria for determining a persons age as the onus is on them not to publish a photo in association with their product in these circumstances ?

Another scenario of course is that the user will lie about their age, have their photo taken and then post the printout to their own Social Media account. As the photos will be heavily branded with the drinks company logo that opens a whole other can of worms !!

Thanks for the replies !

Ken

Peregrinus

ZENER wrote: »

This is kind of what I thought, so basically the company can decide their own criteria for determining a persons age as the onus is on them not to publish a photo in association with their product in these circumstances ?

Yes. With the proviso that, should they end up publishing a photograph of a minor, the extent of the legal/regulatory/PR fallout will probably depend on how much they are perceived to have made a good faith attempt not to do so. If users simply have to click a "yes, I'm over 18" button to participate, I doubt that anyone will be impressed with that level of scrutiny of particpants' ages.

valleyoftheunos

You should see a solicitor about this, you are dealing with a major international company and some complex legal issues. best to get a professional opinion instead of crowd sourcing it!:P

ZENER

Thanks for the advice but the company have already decided on their type of verification and have consulted their legal people and have arrived at this scenario. I was just curious about what could happen and the consequences should someone input false details.

Given that they require a user to enter a DOB which cannot be compared to any other information source to verify it as true then I was wondering what the point of it was, why NOT simply a "Are you over 18 ? Y/N". I can see now though that the company need to be seen to be acting responsibly.

Ken

Victor

Doesn't the code of practice require people to look over 21(?) to be used in alcohol advertising?

This means the brand is going to annoy a lot of 18-21 year olds.

ceegee

Victor wrote: »

Doesn't the code of practice require people to look over 21(?) to be used in alcohol advertising?

This means the brand is going to annoy a lot of 18-21 year olds.

Not sure if it's still the case but it used to be over 25, Carlsberg got told off for their "daydream" ad because Robbie Keane was too young at the time.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RojpJ843Mko

Still an awesome ad though:)

Peregrinus

Victor wrote: »

Doesn't the code of practice require people to look over 21(?) to be used in alcohol advertising?

As Ceegee says, the age limit was and still is 25.

Victor wrote: »

This means the brand is going to annoy a lot of 18-21 year olds.

All brands are subject to the same rules, so this doesn't put this brand at any competitive disadvantage.

Besides, the rate at which 18-25 year olds buy and consume grog doesn't suggest that they feel alienated from or annoyed by the grog brands!

Victor

One way to check would be to get them to enter their date of birth and then cross check that date of birth against what they told Facebook. They may lie in both cases, but will they remember the lie they told?

Peregrinus wrote: »

Besides, the rate at which 18-25 year olds buy and consume grog doesn't suggest that they feel alienated from or annoyed by the grog brands!

But if Acme Grog™ say they will send me a free custom glass if stick my photo on their Facebook, but then I can't stick my picture on Facebook because I'm too young, I'm going to resent Acme Grog™.

clashburke

When signing up to some online betting sites they require you to enter the long code from the bottom of your passport or to sent them a picture of your passport.

Would this work?

ZENER

I've no doubt it's the most effective method but that would require some way of accessing Passport details which I'm not sure would be technically possible in this case.

As said the drinks company are satisfied that this is the way they want to go - a DOB request - so we're happy enough to let them sort it out. We're just providing the equipment and the software, the photos will belong to them along with the headaches.

Thanks for taking time to respond everyone, appreciate it.

Ken