Declan Kidney's contract not being renewed *warning post 1*

thomond2006

rOBeRt frETt wrote: »

I think kidney's bean taking the piss

seriously, It was a horrible 6 nations, through no fault of the manager really - but I tend to agree with the rest of the commentators that it's probably the right move, more power to him and thanks for the Grand Slam

That really isn't true. The injuries were out of his control but everything else was.

trickymicky

Cheers for the memories declan, that grand slam victory will always be one of the best days of my life but when it your time is up, your time is up. At least he is not like trapattoni staying on when he knows he lost it.

Mahatma Geansai

If you credit BOD with the 6N win, you must also credit him with the ensuing mediocrity; see leading Ireland to a 60-0 loss to NZ.

Swiwi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's still in contract though. His role is all that has changed today.

He hasn't been sacked, so anyone reporting that is incorrect.

I think the term your looking for is lame duck...

opinionatedfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If you credit BOD with the 6N win, you must also credit him with the ensuing mediocrity; see leading Ireland to a 60-0 loss to NZ.

BOD won us many games due to his actions, I can't think of any we lost because of them.

awec

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Why not? If the best man for the job is already working in the country, do you think we should overlook him because of that? That attitude would not exactly do wonders in terms of attracting top coaches to these shores.

Schmidt would be first choice for me. His dodging of the question rather than outright ruling himself out makes me think he's interested in the challenge. I doubt he would be biased towards Leinster players in the same way that the kidder was biased towards players from Munster.

At least Kidney is gone now anyway, that's a relief and a small amount of progress.

Because we need someone who has completely fresh ideas with this group of players, not someone with allegiances and friendships with a subset of them.

We saw with Kidney that it didn't work.

Hidalgo

chupacabra wrote: »

So long Deccie. You were only doing your job (poorly) and im sure that if I was in your position I wouldnt have stepped down either. But people here saying he delivered us a Grand Slam or even played a central role in it are talking nonsense. I would put it 80% on the players 19% on the backroom staff and 1% on Kidney. I do however have endless respect for the man for what he achieved with Ireland at underage level and Munster. International rugby was just a bridge too far for his archaic tactics.

If Ireland can win a Grand Slam and only 1% is down to head coach, the new man shouldn't be that important so.

Cosmo Kramer

awec wrote: »

Because we need someone who has completely fresh ideas with this group of players, not someone with allegiances and friendships with a subset of them.

We saw with Kidney that it didn't work.

Maybe that was just Kidney?

It kind of reminds me of English football fans constant jumping between English and overseas coaches for their national team. English guy doesn't work out so everyone calls for a top foreign coach. Foreign coach doesn't work out so everyone calls for a domestic coach who 'understands English football'.

You can't use one example to generalise against a whole group of people. Schmidt, Anscombe etc. aren't the wrong option because Kidney wasn't up to the job, there's got to be more thought put into it than that. If McKenzie or someone else is chosen instead of Schmidt, it needs to be for the right reasons, not a generalisation that Kidneys failure now means that any domestic coach is the wrong way to go.

awec

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Maybe that was just Kidney?

It kind of reminds me of English football fans constant jumping between English and overseas coaches for their national team. English guy doesn't work out so everyone calls for a top foreign coach. Foreign coach doesn't work out so everyone calls for a domestic coach who 'understands English football'.

You can't use one example to generalise against a whole group of people. Schmidt, Anscombe etc. aren't the wrong option because Kidney wasn't up to the job, there's got to be more thought put into it than that. If McKenzie or someone else is chosen instead of Schmidt, it needs to be for the right reasons, not a generalisation that Kidneys failure now means that any domestic coach is the wrong way to go.

Or maybe it wasn't? Maybe it was just natural after having coached a team like Munster?

P_1

Someone needs to update the Kidneyclock then.

In all seriousness, right call IMO, thanks for the memories but sadly your management style hasn't adapted with the times Declan

LeeroyJones

Inevitable news really.
I think we have reason to be excited as Irish fans.

This talk of a "Golden Generation Over" really irks me. For me the generation just passed, or passing, was not a Golden Generation it was just the first time, in a long time, that Ireland could field a team from 1-15 of international standard players sprinkled with really special talents ie BOD, but also POC, Wallace, ROG, Darcy, Hickie. From the rest of the XV and deeper squad we were by no means special irrespective of the coach at the helm.

Whoever takes charge will have a stronger pool of players. As opposed to the past when EOS and to some extent Kidney picked from 2 provinces and sprinkle from elsewhere the new coach will have the guts of 3.5 provinces to pick from as well as a sprinkling from England and France.

Ardillaun

So now that Kidney is gone, how good could Ireland be with the best coach in the world? What are the limits of our playing pool? I think they are significant and are underestimated by many Irish fans. Realistic goals should be set for the new man.

danthefan

opinionatedfan wrote: »

BOD won us many games due to his actions, I can't think of any we lost because of them.

BOD did about as much as one player possibly can to bring home that 6N. Kidney obviously did well in terms of selection and creating an environment that allowed the team to flourish, but no BOD = no slam and that is a simple fact. Nobody else could have made the huge plays he did during that tournament. I think he scored 4 tries and a DG in 5 games.

Cork Boy

danthefan wrote: »

I think that's a fair point, there is enough raw material there to actually build a real squad, not just an XV. BOD is once-in-a-generation, there's no replacement for him, but then there never was going to be.

More like once in a century I'd say. I don't think we'll ever see his likes again. The lad is a freak of nature and every single last one of us should be eternally grateful for the joy he's given us.

Anyhoo, back on topic. I'm with the general message that Deccie did a lot but the times outpaced him.

I'm sure he'll be more than successful in whatever future role he takes up.

Here Precious2

No more steak and kidney. He'll end up in some role with Munster I reckon

totallegend

Quinlan and Francis coming up on newstalk

molloyjh

trickymicky wrote: »

At least he is not like trapattoni staying on when he knows he lost it.

In fairness the IRFU aren't renewing his contract. Declan doesn't have a choice. It's not like he's stepping down. In fact didn't he want to stay on?

danthefan

molloyjh wrote: »

In fairness the IRFU aren't renewing his contract. Declan doesn't have a choice. It's not like he's stepping down. In fact didn't he want to stay on?

Philip Browne said on Newstalk a few minutes ago that Kidney wanted a new contract.

opinionatedfan

Francis called Kidney a national hero. ha.

danthefan

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Francis called Kidney a national hero. ha.

Franno used to call Kidney all sorts of things when he was writing for the Tribune, national hero generally not amongst them.

trouttrout

Best of luck Declan. Seems like a pretty genuine guy and he play a part in the biggest rugby day of my life so thanks for that

opinionatedfan

Haven't seen a single player react on twitter yet.

ThisRegard

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Francis called Kidney a national hero. ha.

He's so annoying to listen to at the moment.

seanin4711

talk about on a downward curve since "His" grand slam.
Jaysus if the irfu didnt cut the cord I would have lost all faith in them.
kiss smal et al moving around deck chairs on the titanic.
Clear out needed top down.

.ak

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Haven't seen a single player react on twitter yet.

Would you? There's so much politics involved why would you get involved.

opinionatedfan

.ak wrote: »

Would you? There's so much politics involved why would you get involved.

I suppose. Still would have thought someone might have said something by now.

opinionatedfan

Franno says he wants Schmidt, Quinlan advocating Cotter.

.ak

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Franno says he wants Schmidt, Quinlan advocating Cotter.

Both want to go back to NZ in 2014.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

Both want to go back to NZ in 2014.

Money talks...

shuffol

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Haven't seen a single player react on twitter yet.

Two thirds are probably too busy celebrating and the other third too distraught.

mfceiling

Saw a twitter post from a girl with the "eaten bread is soon forgotten" quote and a picture of BOD and Kidney holding the 6n trophy.

Might tweet back with "bread from 2009 must be well out of date now"

opinionatedfan

mfceiling wrote: »

Saw a twitter post from a girl with the "eaten bread is soon forgotten" quote and a picture of BOD and Kidney holding the 6n trophy.

Might tweet back with "bread from 2009 must be well out of date now"

if you dont I will

mfceiling

opinionatedfan wrote: »

if you dont I will

I just did!!:D

jm08

Swiwi wrote: »

Money talks...

It didn't talk to Mrs. Nacewa or Mrs. Afoa.

aindriu80

Thanks for the Grand Slam Declan. Hope we get someone who can get us another.

opinionatedfan

jm08 wrote: »

It didn't talk to Mrs. Nacewa or Mrs. Afoa.

both leaving because of young families, Joe is pretty different in that regard.

Not sure about Cotter's family.

monkeybutter

opinionatedfan wrote: »

More talent coming through Irish rugby currently than anytime in the recent history.

I disagree on this, look at the 2003 squad to the 2013 squad, hell of a difference in talent right there.

LeeroyJones

monkeybutter wrote: »

I disagree on this, look at the 2003 squad to the 2013 squad, hell of a difference in talent right there.

In 2003 we arguably had a better XV but in terms of squad depth we are in a stronger position now.
If that 2003 squad had the number of injuries we had this year there would be no way they would have accumulated even 3 points.

jm08

opinionatedfan wrote: »

both leaving because of young families, Joe is pretty different in that regard.

Not sure about Cotter's family.

Having aging parents is just as powerful a draw as having young children that you want to bring up among their extended family (why Wayne Smith turned down the England job) or they might want their children to go to University and eventually settle in NZ so they will have them around them for their old age.

Gatland's family are all back in NZ having spent many years on this side of the world.

tolosenc

I'm not even happy about this. My complete disillusionment with the national team will require some fixing.

totallegend

tolosenc wrote: »

I'm not even happy about this. My complete disillusionment with the national team will require some fixing.

Philip Browne was on Newstalk this evening and fair play to him, he answered all Ger Gilroy's questions (who, in fairness as well, asked a few tough ones).

One of the key topics Gilroy wanted to discuss was the deeply flawed selection process by which the national coach is appointed and the review system whereby he has to explain his decisions to a bunch of dinosaurs from the amateur era.

Browne wouldn't give any specific dates but said that he hoped the 'Plan Ireland' project would be implemented soon enough and that they would shortly have a performance director in place to whom the national coach would be answerable, but that it won't be in place by the time the coach is actually appointed.

I think ditching the existing decision-making system and actually acknowledging the advent of pro rugby would be a big step forward for the national squad.

Rightwing

Get Tony McGahan in.

Rightwing

Rightwing wrote: »

Get Tony McGahan in.

to wash the gear?

Hell no, Rala is the only member that should be staying on!

Lightbulb Sun

mfceiling wrote: »

I just did!!:D

Please keep us updated on any further responses.

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

to wash the gear?

Hell no, Rala is the only member that should be staying on!

Think your onto something there... Rala for Coach!!

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

Get Tony McGahan in.

only if he takes Duncan Williams with him

tolosenc

thomond2006 wrote: »

only if he takes Duncan Williams with him

And gives him caps?

Dr.Evil

tolosenc wrote: »

And gives him caps?

Piliger

A nice man with shed loads of promise.

But he failed to mobilise probably our greatest ever generation of players into any kind of consistent success. He failed to instill leadership on the field. He failed to implement any kind of effective game strategy.

International rugby was ultimately beyond his skill set. And that is no insult. It is simply a fact based on results and performances.

heybaby

With the greatest of respect I say thank you to Declan for his service but I am glad the Kidney era is over. My chief concern now is the central role the IRFU have to play especially because I place much of the blame for the collapse in Ireland's international stock over the last 2 years firmly at their feet. There were several guilt edged opportunities for the IRFU to remove Kidney earlier on in his tenure, but the IRFU failed to do so. Are the IRFU now going to suddenly start making the correct decisions in the interest of Irish Rugby ? The same IRFU that has inexplicably frozen Eddie O Sullivan out of the game for the last 5 years ? The same IRFU who have made no move to appoint a Director of Rugby and somehow expect to appoint a new head coach before finding a Director of Rugby? Surely you should find a Director of Rugby first and use his experience to find a suitable head coach?

Personally beyond the summer tour I wouldnt have any of the current back room staff near the Irish set up, for me they were equally culpable for Ireland's abject last 3 years.