Water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink?

Sofiztikated

I'm only after hearing, so apologies is this has been done, but Dublin has a water shortage?!

Really?

It's been raining for the last, oh, 8 years at least. How is this happening?

daheff

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm only after hearing, so apologies is this has been done, but Dublin has a water shortage?!

Really?

It's been raining for the last, oh, 8 years at least. How is this happening?

I heard on the radio that one of the water treatment plants is out of action due to the 'cold' !
But even still.. we're innundated with water, they should have more than sufficient supplies -especially this time of year

awedf

Rain doesn't mean fully treated and safe drinking water.

The perilously low level of water in the reservoir is due to an infestation of algae at the Varty River near DCC's water treatment plant at Roundwood, Co Wicklow, which is slowing down the treatment of water. There are also a large number of leaks due to the cold weather, which is draining the supply.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/a-million-families-facing-water-shortage-29170447.html

Sunnyisland

This is the reason,

Treated water storage is currently at an unsustainably low level. This is as a result of production problems at one of our water treatment plants. There is obviously no problem with storage levels of untreated/raw water and there is no problem with water quality of treated water. Storage levels of treated drinking water are below a normal operational level.

In addition water demand is currently running higher than average due to the cold weather which has caused an increase in leakage. Our crews are repairing any breaks as they arise. To help us in this regard we would ask people to report any location where they see water rising or running.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=dublin%20water%20not&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdublincity.wordpress.com%2F&ei=nNRbUYeYOZKRhQfsqIHAAg&usg=AFQjCNGmsBcqybqRDq2D_G0ryVZEq2sVaQ

smacl

Additionally, the water transport network (or pipes to you and me) is in tatters. From recollection, less than 40% of the drinking water pumped from the plants makes it to the taps. Given the lack of budget for infrastructure, this isn't likely to change any time soon.

Peregrinus

What's lacking is infrastructure which will reliably turn rainwater falling out of the sky into water fit to drink coming out of your tap in the quantities that you would like. Precisely because it rains more or less all year round, Dublin has comparatively little reservoir storage given its population, so when a dry(ish) spell does come along, water levels gets depleted quite quickly. Conversely when there are sustained periods of heavy rainfall, we lack the capacity to store much of that.

Aging infrastructure means that an increasing proportion of what is drawn out of the reservoirs is lost through leaking pipes, etc, before it gets to your tap. General budgetary constraints, plus political objections to water charges in particular, mean there is pressure not to spend money improving or even maintaining the infrastructure.

ted1

With ground frost and concrete, the soil doesn't absorb the water instead it flows straight to the river, storm drains etc and straight to the sea.

kneemos

Neglect of the infrastructure until a crisis persists for several years is the way we do things.

Markcheese

Heard someone from Dublin city council , saying it'd be this way till they have water from the Shannon in 7/ 8 years....
That'll deliver loads of untreated water, of which there's currently no shortage ....

Would it not be quicker and cheaper to sort out water treatment plants, fix as much of the leaks as possible, and try to cut consumption (metering coming anyway) ...

Peregrinus

kneemos wrote: »

Neglect of the infrastructure until a crisis persists for several years is the way we do things.

Actually, it's the way a lot of countries do things. Especially democracies. A short-term electoral cycle encourages and rewards this behaviour.

Also, Ireland did spend a long Celtic-tigerish time trying to be a low-tax economy, to general acclaim. But being a low-tax economy does have implications for public infrastructure.

kneemos

Markcheese wrote: »

Heard someone from Dublin city council , saying it'd be this way till they have water from the Shannon in 7/ 8 years....
That'll deliver loads of untreated water, of which there's currently no shortage ....

Would it not be quicker and cheaper to sort out water treatment plants, fix as much of the leaks as possible, and try to cut consumption (metering coming anyway) ...

Seems like a long way to go for a drop of water.I may be wrong but I think I vaguely remember a climate change report from somewhere that said the west would get much wetter and the east would become drier which they had to back up their plan.

dodderangler

Sure we're irish
We don't drink water
We drink alcohol and as for bathing
Very few do that aswell so no worries

Markcheese

Peregrinus wrote: »

Actually, it's the way a lot of countries do things. Especially democracies. A short-term electoral cycle encourages and rewards this behaviour.

Also, Ireland did spend a long Celtic-tigerish time trying to be a low-tax economy, to general acclaim. But being a low-tax economy does have implications for public infrastructure.

We were and we weren't a low tax Economy ...we took a lot of construction related tax, and spent the cash like water....( pardon the pun...) .... I suppose at least the Luas, port tunnel, and motorway network there's something left behind.... Better than payrises for all....

--Kaiser--

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm only after hearing, so apologies is this has been done, but Dublin has a water shortage?!

Really?

It's been raining for the last, oh, 8 years at least. How is this happening?

Are you that stupid that you don't understand the concept of water treatment?

Sofiztikated

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Are you that stupid that you don't understand the concept of water treatment?

Who fúcking rattled your cage this morning?

I know water has to be treated, but when its mentioned as a shortage, it usually means lack of water. I was pointing out that we don't have a lack of water.

Another poster mentioned that algae was strangling the supply, on top of up to 60% water loss in the pipes.

VinLieger

Id have absolutely no problem with water charges if i was absolutely certain all the money would go to to repairing and maintaining the water network and infrastructure. But theres no way they can do this for some reason? I never will understand why our taxes go into the big pot system, except for the fact its alot less complicated, less efficient and easier to hide whats paying for what, its a serious part of the problem

munchkin_utd

VinLieger wrote: »

Id have absolutely no problem with water charges if i was absolutely certain all the money would go to to repairing and maintaining the water network and infrastructure. But theres no way they can do this for some reason? I never will understand why our taxes go into the big pot system, except for the fact its alot less complicated, less efficient and easier to hide whats paying for what, its a serious part of the problem

the reason it goes into a "pot" is because for one the health system eats 3000euro per man woman and child (15billion/5million heads) which unfortunately folks wouldnt like to see itemised on their income tax bill so it has to be "hidden" and financed through VAT/ Excise and topped up by troika loans.

But indeed, water + waste treatment that encrues a yearly cost of 1billion euro (IIRC) in Ireland to the taxpayer should be itemised to every home rather than coming from the big pot of tax incomes + troika bailout funds.

kneemos

To be fair to them at least some of the problems arose from the rapid increase in population during the boom.

hooradiation

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I know water has to be treated, but when its mentioned as a shortage, it usually means lack of water.

Nope, it's a lack of potable water.
A strange mistake to make, especially seeing as you use the old "water, water everywhere" adage in your thread title.
You do know what that references, right?

SEPT 23 1989

Forget about fixing the old pipes we just need a new big pipe to drain the Shannon

VinLieger

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Forget about fixing the old pipes we just need a new big pipe to drain the Shannon

Exactly this country has always worked best when it commits to massive projects that involve absolutely no foresight and completely drain out natural resources

tin79

ted1 wrote: »

With ground frost and concrete, the soil doesn't absorb the water instead it flows straight to the river, storm drains etc and straight to the sea.

Eh?

DCC dont extract from wells they use surface water abstraction no?

BillyMitchel

realies wrote: »

This is the reason,

Treated water storage is currently at an unsustainably low level. This is as a result of production problems at one of our water treatment plants. There is obviously no problem with storage levels of untreated/raw water and there is no problem with water quality of treated water. Storage levels of treated drinking water are below a normal operational level.

In addition water demand is currently running higher than average due to the cold weather which has caused an increase in leakage. Our crews are repairing any breaks as they arise. To help us in this regard we would ask people to report any location where they see water rising or running.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=dublin%20water%20not&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdublincity.wordpress.com%2F&ei=nNRbUYeYOZKRhQfsqIHAAg&usg=AFQjCNGmsBcqybqRDq2D_G0ryVZEq2sVaQ

If it running should I run after it or call DCC or what?

Boombastic

You'll have to drink your tears to survive



No shortage of water down here :pac:

BillyMitchel wrote: »

If it running should I run after it or call DCC or what?

Run after it, see can you catch it!

Peregrinus

VinLieger wrote: »

Id have absolutely no problem with water charges if i was absolutely certain all the money would go to to repairing and maintaining the water network and infrastructure. But theres no way they can do this for some reason? I never will understand why our taxes go into the big pot system, except for the fact its alot less complicated, less efficient and easier to hide whats paying for what, its a serious part of the problem

Bit of side issue in this thread, but hypothecated taxes (taxes which can only be spent for a stated purpose) are generally considered a Bad Thing because they are ineffecient and inflexible, and discourage coherent fiscal and budgetary policy formation.

MurdyWurdy

Apparently it's to do with the bad weather causing lots of damage to pipes etc, not that we didn't get enough water via rain

VinLieger

Peregrinus wrote: »

Bit of side issue in this thread, but hypothecated taxes (taxes which can only be spent for a stated purpose) are generally considered a Bad Thing because they are ineffecient and inflexible, and discourage coherent fiscal and budgetary policy formation.

Yes but paying taxes for water and then the taxes not being used to maintain that supply of water is ridiculous, and we know thats whats gonna happen as the water tax is just another way to prop up the piss poor management and miss-spending of the civil service

kneemos

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

Apparently it's to do with the bad weather causing lots of damage to pipes etc, not that we didn't get enough water via rain

Didn't see much more than average bad weather?

MurdyWurdy

kneemos wrote: »

Didn't see much more than average bad weather?

March was the coldest on record. We had a long, cold winter which is not so good for water pipes. What kind of bad weather do you think you need?

kneemos

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

March was the coldest on record. We had a long, cold winter which is not so good for water pipes. What kind of bad weather do you think you need?

How does cold weather affect water pipes?ground frost doesn't permeate down that far unless it's viciously cold and the pipes are too shallow.

Maudi

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes but paying taxes for water and then the taxes not being used to maintain that supply of water is ridiculous, and we know thats whats gonna happen as the water tax is just another way to prop up the piss poor management and miss-spending of the civil service

sure.dont we all pay millions on road tax...and that dosent get spent on roads either

humbert

Maudi wrote: »

sure.dont we all pay millions on road tax...and that dosent get spent on roads either

No, we don't.

VinLieger

humbert wrote: »

No, we don't.

Fair enough but everyone who owns a car does, its called VRT

humbert

VinLieger wrote: »

Fair enough but everyone who owns a car does, its called VRT

Not really, that's basically an excise duty.

tin79

VinLieger wrote: »

Fair enough but everyone who owns a car does, its called VRT

Lol. Road tax is actually called Motor tax. And VRT is vehicle registration tax.

twinytwo

This gets done to death everytime.....


.... main problem, there hasnt been a resevoir built in this country for like 30/40 years....

mike65

kneemos wrote: »

How does cold weather affect water pipes?ground frost doesn't permeate down that far unless it's viciously cold and the pipes are too shallow.

Pipes in Ireland are far too shallow and old, Dublerlin towen has a particularly ancient system, esp in the centre where crumbly junctions are the norm. Combine with lack of investment and lack of capacity at the storage end and the supply is on more of a knife edge than you'd suppose.

Ray Palmer

mike65 wrote: »

Pipes in Ireland are far too shallow and old, Dublerlin towen has a particularly ancient system, esp in the centre where crumbly junctions are the norm. Combine with lack of investment and lack of capacity at the storage end and the supply is on more of a knife edge than you'd suppose.

Plus burst pipes in households actually drain water from the system. Then you have people who leave a tap running so their pipes don't freeze. In cold weather people use more water in this country.

Yes we have a leaking system but individuals are also a big problem.

Freddy Smelly

dodderangler wrote: »

Sure we're irish
We don't drink water
We drink alcohol and as for bathing
Very few do that aswell so no worries

i dunno about you but i wash regularily. nothing worse than having a hum off ya.

VinLieger

tin79 wrote: »

Lol. Road tax is actually called Motor tax. And VRT is vehicle registration tax.

Good for you http://www.vrt.ie/roadtax.php

humbert

VinLieger wrote: »

Good for you http://www.vrt.ie/roadtax.php

Vrt.ie is an independant website providing information about motoring matters such as VRT in Ireland.

You're taking advice from people who can't spell independent on the main page of their website?

VinLieger

humbert wrote: »

You're taking advice from people who can't spell independent on the main page of their website?

Balls my bad, ill admit im wrong here, google failed me

Maudi

humbert wrote: »

No, we don't.

dont be so pedantic!

drdeadlift

If everyone in residential housing were given the means to harvest their own water or what water they could i think we would be well better off.
Instead of a water charge invest in your own system.

paulbok

It hasn't been that cold in Dublin over the last few weeks. Well it was cold, but how often did the temperature drop below 0 for any sustained period?
How could there be more leaks because of that?
The winters of 2 & 3 years ago caused burst pipes everywhere, but no way it was cold enough this year. If the pipes are leaking, they were leaking anyways.

Fratton Fred

Markcheese wrote: »

We were and we weren't a low tax Economy ...we took a lot of construction related tax, and spent the cash like water....( pardon the pun...) .... I suppose at least the Luas, port tunnel, and motorway network there's something left behind.... Better than payrises for all....

Or put another way, instead of flying ministers to GAA matches and church fetes by air corp helicopter and paying for the wife of senior civil servants to have their hair done, the cash should have been spent on things like ensuring there is an efficient supply of potable water for the citizens of the country.

caff

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Or put another way, instead of flying ministers to GAA matches and church fetes by air corp helicopter and paying for the wife of senior civil servants to have their hair done, the cash should have been spent on things like ensuring there is an efficient supply of potable water for the citizens of the country.

On the scale of things it was the election buying SSIA that was the biggest waste of money.

Ray Palmer

drdeadlift wrote: »

If everyone in residential housing were given the means to harvest their own water or what water they could i think we would be well better off.
Instead of a water charge invest in your own system.

Everybody has the means to collect water as is they just choose not to . The big roof on the house is a means to harvest water. People don't do it because there is no cost benefit. When water charges come in people will do it thus proving that by bringing in the tax will reduce and reuse. Water buts are not expensive.

BillyMitchel

Boombastic wrote: »

You'll have to drink your tears to survive



No shortage of water down here :pac:



Run after it, see can you catch it!

Nope not a chance, it must be related to usain bolt.

Ray Palmer

caff wrote: »

On the scale of things it was the election buying SSIA that was the biggest waste of money.

Actually it was pretty good at saving the country quite a bit of money. It meant people had saving to handle the recession. It slowed the economy by taking money out of a an over heating economy. It probably kept the banks more stable than without it. There is no doubt in my mind it saved the country from being worse than it is.

Plus I still have mine

Pete_Cavan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Actually it was pretty good at saving the country quite a bit of money. It meant people had saving to handle the recession. It slowed the economy by taking money out of a an over heating economy. It probably kept the banks more stable than without it. There is no doubt in my mind it saved the country from being worse than it is.

Plus I still have mine

If their maturity was timed to coinside with the downturn in the economic cycle as part of a countercyclical economic policy then, yes the SSIA scheme would have been a good idea. Instead it was designed to ensure FF were reelected in the 2007 General Election and keep the unsustainable property bubble going for a few more years - both things the country could have done without.