No dog seatbelt law plans

bluecherry74

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/no-dog-seatbelt-law-plans-department-1.1347496

There are no plans for laws on compulsory seatbelts for canine passengers , the Department of Transport confirmed this morning in response to media reports on the matter. However the Department said it has sent a query on legislation for animal restraints to the Road Safety Authority for its views.

'This issue was raised by a member of the public with the Department, and the Department forwarded the query on to the RSA for its views on that basis,” it said in a statement.

“There are no plans to legislate for the matter,” it said. “Official road safety advice is that any unrestrained object, whether animate or inanimate, in a vehicle can inflict damage during a collision.”

What are your thoughts - do you think seatbelts should be compulsory for dogs?

How do you restrain your dog on a car journey? (And if not, why not?)

I think it absolutely should be compulsory. Dog welfare aside, an unrestrained dog can cause serious injury to passengers in the event of an accident, especially at higher speeds.

My dogs usually travel on the back seat. They wear an Ezydog harness which is attached to the seatbelt clip with a nylon strap. They have enough room to move about a little, stand up, lie down, stretch etc. But they can't get near the front seat.

deandean

What a complete load of nanny-state over-zealous rubbish! Here we go again, a quango looking for things to keep itself busy. Talking about a 60kg dog.....not exactly your average dog. I trust (not making this a political post of course) the minister will see sense.
Has anyone ever heard of a car occupant getting injured by a flying dog?
The state needs to look at parents who don't restrain their children in cars, like this one:

Article: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/calls-to-tighten-rules-on-dog-restraints-in-cars-589981.html


The Department says the issue was raised after it sent a query from a member of the public to the Road Safety Authority on the issue.

However in a statement this morning, Minister Leo Varadkar's department said there are no plans to legislate for dog seatbelts at this stage.

"The issue of dog restraints was raised by a member of the public with the Department of Transport, and the Department forwarded the query on to the RSA for its views on that basis," the statement said.

"Official road safety advice is that any large object in a car can inflict damage during a collision."

Nonetheless the ISPCA says it is a major safety issue and dogs can inflict severe injuries on passengers and themselves, if thrown around during a crash.

Noel Griffin of the ISPCA said it is a good idea to have dogs restrained in harnesses or in a sectioned-off part of a vehicle.

"The main issue here is that any object coming from the back of the car to the front, at any speed… I would hate to think of a large, 60kg (dog) coming from the back fo the car to the front."

seamus

It's not a bad thing, I'm just surprised they're making any kind of deal out of it. How many people are injured by unsecured dogs?

It seems like the kind of thing you just slot into the Road Traffic Act without any fanfare. A tightening up of some common sense rules.

I agree that 60kg is not your normal-sized dog, but a Lab could easily weigh 30kg, as much as an 8 year old child. Even a medium family dog will weigh around 10kg. Doesn't sound like much? The heaviest regulation bowling balls weigh 9kg. Would you drive around with a bowling ball on the rear window shelf? Or even on the back seat? I wouldn't.

My dog sits in the passenger footwell because the baby goes in the back. If we're on our own I will often strap her into a harness on the passenger seat, but I will admit to undertaking short journeys and letting her sit unsecured on the seat.

carav10

I am absolutely 100% behind this proposal. Why??

December2011, I skidded on black ice, did a few 360's, hitting the ditch on each turn, car written off. My dog fortunately was in her crate (one of the folding crates) but things got flung around so much in the car that she would have been killed for sure. Or would have killed me. As it was, her crate was dented from her impact but she was uninjured.

Fast forward 12 months, December2012 (yes my unlucky month is December), and some idiot pulls out on me from a side road, hits me side on, and sends me head first into a wall and railings (another car written off...). Two dogs this time, in the same crate, shaken but uninjured except for a minor forehead scratch this time. Again, I hate to think what would have happened if they had been loose.

Now, if in either of those two instances, they had been loose in the car, and if, the emergency services were called and I was unable to free myself, those dogs in either event would be a nuisance to the emergency services. You do not want loose dogs at a scene, they'll run off and possibly get lost. As well as that, you have a loose dog in a car who is protective of that owner, the emergency services will not be able to act to possibly save your life. Loose dogs in a car or at a scene are one of an emergency services person's worst nightmare.

It doesn't take much to secure them. Mine now have a nice strong purpose built crate. And as for people who let them hang out the window or be up the front seat loose on the dash....don't start me on that one. Would you let your child do it??

So for any of you who say this is another nanny state law, I would strongly recommend you think again. And for all of you who do not secure your pets, then I would also strongly recommend you think again. A loose dog in a car in an accident or sudden braking is a weapon. All it takes is one bit of bad luck for you (or your child) to be that target. Pets, regardless of their weight and size, do have hard skulls as well that can cause head injuries. Not to mention the potential damage to your pet.

toadfly

It should be brought in, the amount of idiots you see driving around with a dog sitting up at the back window or wandering around the car.

If I have just the bigger dog I harnes her on the back seats, the small dogs have their own carry case or if I have all three wtih me they all go in the big crate.

meoklmrk91

I have a dog guard so he is in the boot when in the car.

Corkbah

deandean wrote: »

The Department says the issue was raised after it sent a query from a member of the public to the Road Safety Authority on the issue.

Nonetheless the ISPCA says it is a major safety issue and dogs can inflict severe injuries on passengers and themselves, if thrown around during a crash.

Noel Griffin of the ISPCA said it is a good idea to have dogs restrained in harnesses or in a sectioned-off part of a vehicle.

Hold the phone !! .... the issue was raised after "A" query from a member of the public was sent to the RSA ... well..if that isn't a WTF moment !! .... how many actually valid reports go into them and they ignore or is it a case of they can see how to make money financially on this one !!

I can understand the concept but if they decide to do this then we are not far away from everything being illegal ...how long before they say smoking in the car is illegal because you might drop the cigarette or the wind might blow it into your face and you'd crash and kill everyone !

or how long before they tell us we cant listen to the radio because the news might surprise you and your attention will be focussed on the radio, I find it amazing how they say that you are 4 times more likely to cause a crash if you are on your phone - yet having and using a hands free kit is not illegal !! ...if using your phone was so dangerous why is the law against actually holding your phone and not using it but holding it in your hand ....this country really is messed up !!

on the subject of dogs in cars - it has as much potential to be a hazard as anything else that isn't tied down in the car ...so any loose pens, coins or boxes of stuff could also be hazardous in the event of a crash !

I totally disagree with the concept !! ...... as was mentioned earlier ... how many people have been killed by flying/loose dogs when in an accident - its a PR exercise and something which the RSA shouldn't even entertain.

How about the RSA concentrate on the huge amounts of people badly parking - parking over two spaces, parking in loading bays, disabled bays, double yellows, single yellows and all the bad roundabouts drivers .... educate drivers to drive and park properly and responsibly.

carav10

Corkbah wrote: »

on the subject of dogs in cars - it has as much potential to be a hazard as anything else that isn't tied down in the car ...so any loose pens, coins or boxes of stuff could also be hazardous in the event of a crash !

Wrong. It has more. Be realistic here would you? Maybe you should watch that road safety video where the heads clash with each other because someone didn't have their seatbelt on. Most people turn it off because they can't face watching it. But you talk to any paramedic, garda or fire service personnel and they'll tell you what it's like to come on a scene where a life could have been saved if someone hadn't thought 'it'll never happen to me'. And while I'm not going to waste my time to go and dig it out for reference, I'm pretty sure the current laws say that loads above a certain weight should be secured. I don't think that goes for a pen somehow, do you??

You can try playing devil's advocate here as much as you like but anyone reasonable should be able to see that the proposed law makes a lot of sense. How many times have you seen reported in the news as to why exactly someone died in a car crash, my guess is never because the detailed reasons why a crash occurred are rarely, if ever, reported. And just because it's never reported is not to say it could never happen. Not too sure it's worth the risk to me or my passengers life, do you?

Anyway, as you can tell, I am fairly passionate that this is a good thing. I guess personal experience of what might have been affects my standing on it pretty strongly!

Corkbah

so are you trying to say that a dog is more or less to cause injury than a similar weighted and non secured object in the back seat of a vehicle ?

I'm saying that no matter what the object is....its going to be a hazard and could cause injury/death ....just as much as a dog would as claimed by the RSA.

mitosis

Corkbah wrote: »

so are you trying to say that a dog is more or less to cause injury than a similar weighted and non secured object in the back seat of a vehicle ?

I'm saying that no matter what the object is....its going to be a hazard and could cause injury/death ....just as much as a dog would as claimed by the RSA.

Obviously in the case of accident anything unsecured is a hazard, but a dog loose in the car is a potential hazard without any accident

Corkbah

mitosis wrote: »

Obviously in the case of accident anything unsecured is a hazard, but a dog loose in the car is a potential hazard without any accident

and so is a cup of coffee or a cigarette, or some food with sauce in it.....should they be made illegal too ?

mitosis

Corkbah wrote: »

and so is a cup of coffee or a cigarette, or some food with sauce in it.....should they be made illegal too ?

You miss my point. A sausage roll is not going to jump from the rear seat onto your lap to bark at a cyclist

Corkbah

mitosis wrote: »

You miss my point. A sausage roll is not going to jump from the rear seat onto your lap to bark at a cyclist

and you miss my point .... food-with sauce in it, a hot drink or a cigarette can fall into someone's lap and cause the driver to crash just as much as a dog jumping from the back seat into the front to bark at a cyclist.

my dog knows she doesn't go into the front of the car unless invited, same for the house, shes not allowed upstairs until invited. I cant imagine a dog would goto the front of a vehicle to bark at a cyclist - why would they not go to their nearest window...in the back seat of the car.

ISDW

I have a van and my dogs are in crates in the back. I had to buy a new (second hand) van at the beginning of the year after some nice people decided to help themselves to my old one (thankfully no dogs in it at the time), so I'm living with it for a while, and saving up, but will then have custom made crates fitted to it.

Something for people to consider with crates in cars or vans, is how you would get the dogs out if you had a crash. With a crate in the boot of an estate or hatchback, if someone smashed into the back of you, you may not be able to open the rear door to get them out, so would always advise a crate with at least 2 doors, so that you could get a dog out over the back seat if necessary (hopefully the back seats will fold down, allowing access to that door).

carav10

ISDW wrote: »

Something for people to consider with crates in cars or vans, is how you would get the dogs out if you had a crash. With a crate in the boot of an estate or hatchback, if someone smashed into the back of you, you may not be able to open the rear door to get them out, so would always advise a crate with at least 2 doors, so that you could get a dog out over the back seat if necessary (hopefully the back seats will fold down, allowing access to that door).

Ha ha, this is where personal experience of a situation definitely came in to play :-) In my first crash, the boot wouldn't open so I had a huge problem in trying to access my dog in her crate. Having to let down the back seats, pull the cage forward stressed her out even more.

So, when I was getting my purpose built crate, one of my criteria was to have a rear escape hatch so I can get them out without trying to move the crate around. Definitely worth considering if you're getting one made.

Tigger

carav10 wrote: »

Fast forward 12 months, December2013 (yes my unlucky month is December), and some idiot pulls out on me from a side road, hits me side on, and sends me head first into a wall and railings (another car written off...). Two dogs this time, in the same crate, shaken but uninjured except for a minor forehead scratch this time. Again, I hate to think what would have happened if they had been loose. .

you had a crash in december 2013?

ABajaninCork

Perhaps I'm too English (Cautious!!). I absolutely agree that dogs should be restrained whilst driving. They can be a distraction at the very least if not. What happens if you have to brake suddenly with an unrestrained dog in the car? There's a very good chance of the animal being injured.

The harnesses aren't even that expensive. Paid about E15 for mine, and four years later it's still going strong. You wouldn't dream of driving about without a seatbelt. Neither would you dream of not having a suitable child seat for the kids. Why should a dog be any different?

carav10

Tigger wrote: »

you had a crash in december 2013?

LOL I'm obviously predicting the three in a row....will correct :-)

ISDW

carav10 wrote: »

LOL I'm obviously predicting the three in a row....will correct :-)

We're all going to be worried about you now in December.

carav10

ISDW wrote: »

We're all going to be worried about you now in December.

If I have the money, I'm out of the country for the whole month, why tempt fate :-) At least that's what I'd like to do, realistically I'll be sitting at home afraid to drive for the month!

tk123

Had a near miss myself 2 weeks ago where I had to slam on the brakes (tool watching his kid walking into the school on his left while pulling out into traffic ie ME on the right :mad:) and was really glad I'd upgraded Bailey's car harness last month! He would have got a knock in the old one - the new one (Bergan) is a much better fit and has less slack so he can't move around as much.. I hate seeing unrestrained dogs in cars hanging out of windows or sitting on the parcel shelf etc - an accident waiting to happen imo. I was looking at cars online (for when i win the lotto lol ) a while ago and some of them have no dog stickers now beside the warnings rear facing car seats and the front passenger airbag..

Hooked

So, I changed the car last year for my husky and its a BMW 3 series 'touring' where Hugo is in the boot, separated by a dog guard that is retractable. It unhooks from the ceiling and rolls into a mechanism just behind the back seats (which also collapse forward).

The boot glass opens separate to the boot door. It's an ideal set up for us and Hugo and will snugly accommodate husky number 2...

My question... What would I be expected to do if the law is passed? How would I restrain the dog or is my current set up ok?

Curious.

tk123

Hooked wrote: »

So, I changed the car last year for my husky and its a BMW 3 series 'touring' where Hugo is in the boot, separated by a dog guard that is retractable. It unhooks from the ceiling and rolls into a mechanism just behind the back seats (which also collapse forward).

The boot glass opens separate to the boot door. It's an ideal set up for us and Hugo and will snugly accommodate husky number 2...

My question... What would I be expected to do if the law is passed? How would I restrain the dog or is my current set up ok?

Curious.

Clip their harness to the cargo hooks

Binka

I have always had my dogs behind a dog guard in my cars and have never considered having them on the seats. I have recently bought a small van that has a full metal grill bulkhead which works perfectly so there is no way they could get into the front. I also have the sliding side door which is a big bonus for getting them in and out of the car (especially in the event of an accident).

Having lived in the UK, there is a section in the highway code that states dogs should be restrained and although this is not a reason for prosecution in itself, I have come across the odd person that has received a fixed penalty ticket for having a dog in the front with them. Something to do with not being in full control of the vehicle, but having said that I have read newspaper reports of people in the UK being prosecuted for eating a KitKat, eating a banana and also a woman who was brushing her hair!
Then there was the woman who was applying her make up in the fast lane of the motorway!!!

I believe there are a few states in the US that have compulsory dog restraint laws.

Personally, I don't see the harm as I wouldn't want to be clouted in the back of the head by my 35Kg lurcher. I think it would hurt....a lot.

scwazrh

While I agree that suitable restraints have to be used while carrying dogs in a vehicle, I can't help but think this suggestion is going to cost us all some form of tax to add to the governments coffers..
Add this suggestion to the idea of microchips for all dogs , which if there is mandatory micrchips it will be very easy to check dog license holders and in turn increase Dog ownership costs I hope the dog pounds can prepare for the large increase in stray dogs that will no doubt follow..

tk123

scwazrh wrote: »

While I agree that suitable restraints have to be used while carrying dogs in a vehicle, I can't help but think this suggestion is going to cost us all some form of tax to add to the governments coffers..
Add this suggestion to the idea of microchips for all dogs , which if there is mandatory micrchips it will be very easy to check dog license holders and in turn increase Dog ownership costs I hope the dog pounds can prepare for the large increase in stray dogs that will no doubt follow..

?! Increase their costs to have to abide by the law and get a license like the rest of us or increase the cost of the license? Forcing people to take responsibility can only be a good thing imo - it might make them think twice before getting a dog if it's not so easy to dump when they get bored with it when it can be traced back to them.

Dodd

The way this is going a woman in the back seat will need a seat belt for her hand bag soon.

anniehoo

Dodd wrote: »

The way this is going a woman in the back seat will need a seat belt for her hand bag soon.

I hope nobody i know owns a handbag that weighs more than 3kg.:eek: Mine is close though. Dodd, if its an unbelted dog, loose handbag or an unbelted baby weighing , 6/7lbs (~3kg) which is going to do the most damage? A weight is a weight. Yes, i said "unbelted baby", did you read back?Who would do that? Nobody.

Perspective is a funny thing and retrospection not so much. There's a Law (Newton or something) that velocity and force equals added pressure or something (too lazy to google). Anyone?Physics isn't my strong point

The force of a pen flying around your car is going to be different than a dog doing the same,unless it weighs the same as a pen...and well lets face it, it wont be.No reasonable person could or would argue against not having an animal contained whilst driving. It's not motionless or senseless so therefore can't be deemed an "inanimate object" and therefore harmless.

Above a certain weight,any loose object albeit (in)animate is a lethal weapon in a crash of significant force. It's "devils advocate" as mentioned above.

strandroad

I read about a case when a flying dog blinded someone in the front seat as it bounced off the windscreen (the dog died).

I restrain my dog.

Tigger

Hooked wrote: »

So, I changed the car last year for my husky and its a BMW 3 series 'touring' where Hugo is in the boot, separated by a dog guard that is retractable. It unhooks from the ceiling and rolls into a mechanism just behind the back seats (which also collapse forward).

The boot glass opens separate to the boot door. It's an ideal set up for us and Hugo and will snugly accommodate husky number 2...

My question... What would I be expected to do if the law is passed? How would I restrain the dog or is my current set up ok?

Curious.

my dogs have a similar set up; they lean into the back of the sears/guard and have no problems with hard braking
they are restrained and there's no need to clip them into the cargo hooks

Sofiztikated

Corkbah wrote: »

Hold the phone !! .... the issue was raised after "A" query from a member of the public was sent to the RSA ... well..if that isn't a WTF moment !! .... how many actually valid reports go into them and they ignore or is it a case of they can see how to make money financially on this one !!

I can understand the concept but if they decide to do this then we are not far away from everything being illegal ...how long before they say smoking in the car is illegal because you might drop the cigarette or the wind might blow it into your face and you'd crash and kill everyone !

or how long before they tell us we cant listen to the radio because the news might surprise you and your attention will be focussed on the radio, I find it amazing how they say that you are 4 times more likely to cause a crash if you are on your phone - yet having and using a hands free kit is not illegal !! ...if using your phone was so dangerous why is the law against actually holding your phone and not using it but holding it in your hand ....this country really is messed up !!

on the subject of dogs in cars - it has as much potential to be a hazard as anything else that isn't tied down in the car ...so any loose pens, coins or boxes of stuff could also be hazardous in the event of a crash !

I totally disagree with the concept !! ...... as was mentioned earlier ... how many people have been killed by flying/loose dogs when in an accident - its a PR exercise and something which the RSA shouldn't even entertain.

How about the RSA concentrate on the huge amounts of people badly parking - parking over two spaces, parking in loading bays, disabled bays, double yellows, single yellows and all the bad roundabouts drivers .... educate drivers to drive and park properly and responsibly.

Corkbah wrote: »

so are you trying to say that a dog is more or less to cause injury than a similar weighted and non secured object in the back seat of a vehicle ?

I'm saying that no matter what the object is....its going to be a hazard and could cause injury/death ....just as much as a dog would as claimed by the RSA.

Corkbah wrote: »

and so is a cup of coffee or a cigarette, or some food with sauce in it.....should they be made illegal too ?

Corkbah wrote: »

and you miss my point .... food-with sauce in it, a hot drink or a cigarette can fall into someone's lap and cause the driver to crash just as much as a dog jumping from the back seat into the front to bark at a cyclist.

my dog knows she doesn't go into the front of the car unless invited, same for the house, shes not allowed upstairs until invited. I cant imagine a dog would goto the front of a vehicle to bark at a cyclist - why would they not go to their nearest window...in the back seat of the car.

And this is exactly WHY seemingly stupid and obvious things need to be in plain black and white, in law.

Of course it's a good idea, very suprised that it isn't already.