saudi man sentenced to paralysis

davet82

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22010122

The reported sentencing of paralysis for a Saudi man as punishment for paralysing another man has been described as "outrageous" by a leading human rights group.

Saudi reports say the 24-year-old man could be paralysed from the waist down if he cannot pay his victim one million riyals (£250,000) in compensation.

Amnesty International says the sentence is a form of torture.

The man has been in prison for 10 years since he stabbed a friend in the back.

Saudi newspapers say Ali al-Khawahir was 14 when he paralysed his friend in the attack in the Eastern Province town of al-Ahsa.

The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused.

"Paralysing someone as punishment for a crime would be torture," said Ann Harrison, Middle East and North Africa deputy director at Amnesty.

"It is time the authorities in Saudi Arabia start respecting their international legal obligations and remove these terrible punishments from the law."

This is the latest example of Saudi Arabia's fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic law attracting international criticism.

Amnesty says the law has seen judicially approved eye-gougings and tooth extractions.

The rights group condemns the practice as tantamount to torture, urging that the latest punishment must not be enforced.

Amnesty's intervention will certainly fuel a growing debate in Saudi Arabia itself over its style of justice, says the BBC's Arab affairs editor, Sebastian Usher.

An eye for an eye comes to mind but I have to disagree with this...

anybody in support of this type of punishment?

tritium

Jesus, that's just sick. Not to mention hes already done 10 years for the crime

davet82

davet82 wrote: »

An eye for an eye comes to mind but I have to disagree with this...

Yeah that's generally how these things go, people are in favour of ridiculous punishments until someone might actually have it done.

Well isnt prison supposed to be torture also ? My only problem with this is if it were in Ireland the cost involved in looking after him . You also have to take into account he was 14 when he did it.

SEPT 23 1989

Old Hippy won't like this

Iwasfrozen

It's sick. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

jester77

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's sick. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Won't there be one person left or will they stab their own eye?

wolfpawnat

AH answer. Terrible ideal, here he would get disability, a free pass and the person looking after him would get carers allowance, rabble rabble rabble.

Actual answer, their prisons are nowhere near the standard of ours so it would be a version of hell. What he did was disgusting, but he was only a kid doing it.

If it was a serial rapist or a serial killer, I would agree with something along these lines, but not for someone being a stupid kid.

Dravokivich

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's sick. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Not if we can still see from one eye, but it does mean no point in making 3D movies. So some will be happy with that.

Lollipops23

That's barbaric. State-sanctioned torture.

It'd be horrific even if he was an adult when the crime was carried out, but jesus he was a child!!! AND he's already served 10 years for it. Jesus.

Cee-Jay-Cee

There are certain cases where the eye for an eye rule could be used. This is not one of them, he was 14 years old at time and has already done10 years in prison, which I think is more than adequate for his crime.

WayneMolloy

It is a demonic country.

Larbre34

Its not torture, as that implies a temporary situation, its wilful mutilation.

Well done Saudi, doing a whole bunch for your image as a modern state there. Great guns for Islamic based law as well. So long as US/EU/NATO condones, that's what you're gonna get.

--Kaiser--

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's sick. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

jester77 wrote: »

Won't there be one person left or will they stab their own eye?

Boom. Brilliant clip from a brilliant movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uXBXi0q7VM

Shelflife

Interesting that none of the replies have wondered about the victim and how he is coping with his life sentence of being paralysed.

While i dont agree with paralysing the guilty man, its disconcerting that the replies so far have spoken about having served his time when te real victim is still in a wheel chair.

Thats whats wrong with the world we live in at the moment. The victim is ignored and we ensure that the guilty parties rights are not violated in any way, to the detrement at times of the victim.

suicide_circus

Dark Ages savages up to their old tricks.

ScumLord

I suppose they haven't thought about the care they'll have to provide the man after he's paralysed. They may just assume they can leave him to rot but I don't think it would work out that way and the guards wouldn't eventually rue the day they decided paralysing someone was a good idea.

Half the time I wonder if saudi just decides to come up with a crazy punishment and troll the planet with it for a while?.

sfwcork

Imagine been the fooker told to paralyse the guy

arybvtcw0eolkf

sfwcork wrote: »

Imagine been the fooker told to paralyse the guy

He probably nixxer's at chopping off heads and hands, and gouging out eyes..

So it most likely won't bother him.

Lingua Franca

davet82 wrote: »

An eye for an eye comes to mind but I have to disagree with this...

An eye for an eye is right there in your link.

Amnesty says the law has seen judicially approved eye-gougings and tooth extractions.

anybody in support of this type of punishment?

Yes, loads. Here's one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056864063

And all the people who say that sex offenders should be castrated and that anyone believing differently is a pansy paedo loving bleeding heart liberal.

CrazyRabbit

We have some 'eye for an eye' laws here. The CAB can sieze assets from criminals who 'likely' obtained them via criminal acts or the proceeds of such.

So, a criminal steals from someone, and the CAB steals from the criminal.

Saying that, inflicting permanent physical harm on another as punishment isn't retribution(qisas), it's revenge.

Retribution:
Punishment that is considered to be morally right and fully deserved.

Revenge:
The action of inflicting hurt or harm on someone for a wrong suffered at their hands.

HHobo

If you all think that his being rendered paralysed is so horrific, it means he willfully carried out such sadism himself. He was 14 when he did it. Not sure how much mitigation of responsibility that should buy him. How old do you have to be to understand that stabbing someone in the back is a naughty thing to do? Perhaps now that he is 24 his friend will be able to walk again.

The only real issue I have with this is that he has already served 10 years in prison. It is not right to punish him that way and then decide to punish him this way too. Were this his initial punishment I would have less of a problem with it.

Lingua Franca

Shelflife wrote: »

Interesting that none of the replies have wondered about the victim and how he is coping with his life sentence of being paralysed.

While i dont agree with paralysing the guilty man, its disconcerting that the replies so far have spoken about having served his time when te real victim is still in a wheel chair.

Thats whats wrong with the world we live in at the moment. The victim is ignored and we ensure that the guilty parties rights are not violated in any way, to the detrement at times of the victim.

The only thing we know about the victim is that he was injured 10 years ago, and this further punishment is at his request. From that we can safely say that he's not coping very well at all.

I'm surprised you're disconcerted at the replies. He was injured 10 years ago a quarter of the way round the planet. Had the OP posted a thread saying "hey this guy in saudi was stabbed in the spine and was left paralysed ten years ago", what would your response have been? "Oh god that's terrible I hope that his attacker gets paralysed for life in retaliation" or "Why is this even a thread"?

The punishment is A. current news and B. an abuse of human rights by a government. I'm sure everyone could go back and edit in sympathy for the victim to their posts but what would that add to the discussion?

These guys are operating under laws that make no sense in the modern era.
Once the oil runs out or a substitute is found the region will go back to being a hole in the desert and nobody will care.
Huge hypocrisy in Saudi - no drink allowed but there is a huge drug problem because the place is so boring. Go to Dubai and you'll see clubs stacked with hot Russian ho's heading off with rich towel-heads from KSA.

uch

Lingua Franca wrote: »

The only thing we know about the victim is that he was injured 10 years ago, and this further punishment is at his request. From that we can safely say that he's not coping very well at all.

I'm surprised you're disconcerted at the replies. He was injured 10 years ago a quarter of the way round the planet. Had the OP posted a thread saying "hey this guy in saudi was stabbed in the spine and was left paralysed ten years ago", what would your response have been? "Oh god that's terrible I hope that his attacker gets paralysed for life in retaliation" or "Why is this even a thread"?

The punishment is A. current news and B. an abuse of human rights by a government. I'm sure everyone could go back and edit in sympathy for the victim to their posts but what would that add to the discussion?

That'd be my response

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Oh come on!

Every ****ing time there's a scumbag thread on here, people are suggesting all sorts of eye-for-an-eye biblical ****. Now an Islamic country does it and they're portrayed as backward and barbaric...??!

fabsoul

tritium wrote: »

Jesus, that's just sick. Not to mention hes already done 10 years for the crime

So and the man he paralysed he not ok after 10 years?????

Zaph

sfwcork wrote: »

Imagine been the fooker told to paralyse the guy

Adriel Mushy Kleptomaniac wrote: »

He probably nixxer's at chopping off heads and hands, and gouging out eyes..

So it most likely won't bother him.

In all likelihood it will be a qualified surgeon who would carry this out, rather than one of the state executioners. The Hippocratic Oath obviously doesn't carry as much weight in Saudi.

HHobo wrote: »

If you all think that his being rendered paralysed is so horrific, it means he willfully carried out such sadism himself.

He stabbed a guy in the back, which led to paralysis. There is nothing to suggest that he set out to deliberately paralyse the victim. So while there's no doubt that it was a serious crime and he deserved to be punished appropriately, your hyperbole is somewhat misplaced.

HHobo

Zaph wrote: »

He stabbed a guy in the back, which led to paralysis. There is nothing to suggest that he set out to deliberately paralyse the victim. So while there's no doubt that it was a serious crime and he deserved to be punished appropriately, your hyperbole is somewhat misplaced.

Yes, I sure he had much happier outcomes in mind when he stabbed his friend in the back. Are you seriously representing the position that a bad unforseen outcome from stabbing someone is a good reason for leniency? Perhaps you feel that death is preferable to paralysis? Most people who stab others have this end in mind. Is stabbing someone to death less "sick" than intentionally causing paralysis?

IK09

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh come on!

Every ****ing time there's a scumbag thread on here, people are suggesting all sorts of eye-for-an-eye biblical ****. Now an Islamic country does it and they're portrayed as backward and barbaric...??!

Im always in favour of retribution, always, but this isnt exactly retribution is it? Does the punishment fit the crime? Was the boy that committed the crime punished?

I would say that 10 years in prison for a scumbag stabbing someone in the back is a little light, maybe 15 would be fairer.

But a 14 y.o stabbing someone in the back...different story...my head is going into melt down trying to figure out some form of retribution.

Initial thought. 10 years in prison for a 14 y.o is enough for me

pickarooney

Nobody would blink an eye if he were hanged for the crime, I reckon. Somehow a lesser punishment is worse.

IK09

pickarooney wrote: »

Nobody would blink an eye if he were hanged for the crime, I reckon. Somehow a lesser punishment is worse.

very true...but the main issue here i think is that this happened when he was 14. Now im not up to date with saudi foreign affairs but id say they wouldnt hang a 14 year old

Ranicand

IK09 wrote: »

Initial thought. 10 years in prison for a 14 y.o is enough for me

The victim is still paralyzed

How can 10 or 15 years locked up be enough for something that lasts a lifetime?

I think people calling another culture barbaric are missing the point.

This will make people in that country THINK before they commit such a crime.

One criminal suffers but the fear this will instill may save many potential victims.

Myself personally I would not vote for such a penalty but neither will I lose any sleep about it.

Our system is hundred times worse attacks and murders all over the place because the punishment is a joke.

Ranicand

Ranicand wrote: »

This will make people in that country THINK before they commit such a crime.

I doubt thinking was at the top of the list on "things happening when stabbing my friend"

Ranicand

bluewolf wrote: »

I doubt thinking was at the top of the list on "things happening when stabbing my friend"

Rage fury and failing to think has lasting impact sometimes permanent.

How many fights have happened in this country in which people end up on the ground with their head kicked in?

Failure to THINK has ruined his friends life sharing the misery seems just to me.

HHobo

bluewolf wrote: »

I doubt thinking was at the top of the list on "things happening when stabbing my friend"

Could have been premeditated.

Holsten

Ranicand wrote: »

The victim is still paralyzed

How can 10 or 15 years locked up be enough for something that lasts a lifetime?

I think people calling another culture barbaric are missing the point.

This will make people in that country THINK before they commit such a crime.

One criminal suffers but the fear this will instill may save many potential victims.

Myself personally I would not vote for such a penalty but neither will I lose any sleep about it.

Our system is hundred times worse attacks and murders all over the place because the punishment is a joke.

Having a greater punishment doesn't stop people committing crimes... why do people find this idea so hard to grasp?

Zaph

HHobo wrote: »

Yes, I sure he had much happier outcomes in mind when he stabbed his friend in the back. Are you seriously representing the position that a bad unforseen outcome from stabbing someone is a good reason for leniency? Perhaps you feel that death is preferable to paralysis? Most people who stab others have this end in mind. Is stabbing someone to death less "sick" than intentionally causing paralysis?

Not in the slightest. However you stated that he "willfully carried out such sadism himself". Unless he stabbed the other guy in a particularly slow, lingering and cruel manner to ensure paralysis, there's no particular sadism involved. And it's entirely feasible that he actually intended to kill the guy, but again there's no evidence of sadism. However deliberately paralysing someone who has already spent 10 years in prison for a crime (and I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve more) is sadistic no matter how you look at it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

IK09 wrote: »

Im always in favour of retribution, always, but this isnt exactly retribution is it? Does the punishment fit the crime? Was the boy that committed the crime punished?

I would say that 10 years in prison for a scumbag stabbing someone in the back is a little light, maybe 15 would be fairer.

But a 14 y.o stabbing someone in the back...different story...my head is going into melt down trying to figure out some form of retribution.

Initial thought. 10 years in prison for a 14 y.o is enough for me

Which is probably something only a bit stronger than what he would get here.

The initial sentence, though, was apparently a 250K riyal fine. Now why he's in jail and how he's supposed ro pay it when he's in jail is anyone's guess.

Zaph

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The initial sentence, though, was apparently a 250K riyal fine. Now why he's in jail and how he's supposed ro pay it when he's in jail is anyone's guess.

The criminal's family is usually expected to pay if the person can't.

Ranicand

Holsten wrote: »

Having a greater punishment doesn't stop people committing crimes... why do people find this idea so hard to grasp?

It would be interesting to compare the crime rate in Saudi Arabia to here.

HHobo

Zaph wrote: »

Not in the slightest. However you stated that he "willfully carried out such sadism himself". Unless he stabbed the other guy in a particularly slow, lingering and cruel manner to ensure paralysis, there's no particular sadism involved. And it's entirely feasible that he actually intended to kill the guy, but again there's no evidence of sadism. However deliberately paralysing someone who has already spent 10 years in prison for a crime (and I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve more) is sadistic no matter how you look at it.

I was operating from the point of view that stabbing somone in the back was sadistic. All manner of terrible outcomes are highly likely. He obviously intended an extremely negative outcome for his friend. The result in this instance was paralysis (hardly a shockingly odd outcome from stabbing someone in the back). That he should have to suffer the same as his victim is just in my opinion. The main difference is that his own choices and actions are what led to his paralysis. I would agree, however, that doing this after he has already spent 10 years in prison is not just.

readytosnap

cripple the cu nt i say.

Ranicand

Zaph wrote: »

Not in the slightest. However you stated that he "willfully carried out such sadism himself". Unless he stabbed the other guy in a particularly slow, lingering and cruel manner to ensure paralysis, there's no particular sadism involved. And it's entirely feasible that he actually intended to kill the guy, but again there's no evidence of sadism. However deliberately paralysing someone who has already spent 10 years in prison for a crime (and I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve more) is sadistic no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps a sadistic crime deserves a sadistic punishment.

Getting into a debate on what he intended or if he even gave it any though is pointless the result is the same.

I am far from saying I would be in favor of this system but why get our knickers in a knot for a CRIMINAL in another country?

HHobo

Holsten wrote: »

Having a greater punishment doesn't stop people committing crimes... why do people find this idea so hard to grasp?

I personally don't see anything wrong with a little retribution. I'm sure it is terribly uncivilised of me, but there it is!

Ranicand

Ranicand wrote: »

It would be interesting to compare the crime rate in Saudi Arabia to here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20959228
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18503550
Great craic over there altogether

Ranicand

HHobo wrote: »

I personally don't see anything wrong with a little retribution. I'm sure it is terribly uncivilised of me, but there it is!

What is uncivilized is a country that allows people to be homeless on the streets but grants criminals free legal aid.

A country that spends more on food for prisoners then it does on hospital patients.

I am with you.

suicide_circus

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh come on!

Every ****ing time there's a scumbag thread on here, people are suggesting all sorts of eye-for-an-eye biblical ****. Now an Islamic country does it and they're portrayed as backward and barbaric...??!

Mostly people call for reasonable sentencing which fit the crime, not revenge mutilation or torture.

Ranicand

Ranicand wrote: »

It would be interesting to compare the crime rate in Saudi Arabia to here.

There are many things that aren't considered crimes in Saudi that would be considered criminal here.

De facto slavery, although officially abolished in the 60's, still exists in Saudi, and many abuses that would be prosecuted here are culturally acceptable there.

There is little to be gained from comparing crime rates unless there is a consensus on what constitutes a crime.

On the subject of the OP, this is obviously where a two wrongs do make a right point of view ends. Except in this case the punishment isn't fitting the crime. The guilty party has already spent ten years in a Saudi prison, living under the threat of this possiblity, which anyone would consider tortous to say the least. To describe this as cruel and unusual is an understatement. As Madam X said it's sadistic, and State sponsored sadism is never going to be justice.

Wattle

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh come on!

Every ****ing time there's a scumbag thread on here, people are suggesting all sorts of eye-for-an-eye biblical ****. Now an Islamic country does it and they're portrayed as backward and barbaric...??!

Yes but the suggestions here are just people venting. They are never going to be carried out whereas in Saudi there's a chance that they will.

Ranicand

bluewolf wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20959228
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18503550
Great craic over there altogether

Ok your first link there was a baby killer boo hoo.

Now as regards the pair in the other link it is a hardcore Islamic country and the crime they are guilty of is stupidity.

Our own country is a mess their is starvation in the world and we support one of the most oppressive barbaric countries in the middle east.

And let us not forget China.

Now I won't let my post pull the thread of topic.

We are worrying about the rights of somebody that stabbed their friend and left them unable to walk?