Owning a second property

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse

hi all,
Has anyone bought a scond house to rent lately?
Im wondering what taxes you pay?
Do you paytax on th rent you recieve?
If you lost your job in the morning, would you recieve your year of stamps or dolepayment?
Appreciate any help on this/

the world wonders

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

If you lost your job in the morning, would you recieve your year of stamps or dolepayment?

Everyone is entitled to nine months of jobseeker's benefit if they have the necessary PRSI stamps, regardless of how rich they are or how many houses they own.

Entitlement to jobseeker's allowance depends on a means test which takes the value of any second property you own into account, as well as any rent you are receiving.

athtrasna

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

hi all,
Has anyone bought a scond house to rent lately?
Im wondering what taxes you pay?
Do you paytax on th rent you recieve?
If you lost your job in the morning, would you recieve your year of stamps or dolepayment?
Appreciate any help on this/

Best advice is don't even think of it!! Read back on this forum for horror stories of nightmare tenants.

Add in income tax, prsi, prtb registration, property tax, maintenance charges plus the chance that the tenants can simply decide to stop paying in the morning and it will be months before you get your property back.

As a landlord...I wouldn't recommend it.

NIMAN

I was a reluctant landlord for a couple of years, but recently sold my property.

Never been happier to have only 1 property again, I would not advise it.

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse

thanks fo the heads up guys, didnt realise it was such a bad idea. But then again, im guessing the government make all positive moves a taxable to the balls offence!! Much appreciated lads

AlanG

You will have to pay property tax, income tax, USC and PRSI on your income even if it doesn’t cover the cost of the mortgage.
In this country there is very little protection for landlords and it takes years and a lot of money to get problem tenants out, during which time you will have to pay the mortgage and property tax.
In addition to that you are likely to see capital depreciation, at least in real terms for another couple of years.

space_man

it's a very good time to buy as property prices are rock bottom, and good rentals in good areas are in scarce supply.
it all depends on what you pay for what you get, and what rent you can achieve. research the area you're interested in purchasing in on daft.ie

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83449771


regarding tenants. you need to be choosy, interview all prospective tenants at least once, require & follow up all references. do not accept excuses. excuses normally spell trouble.
if for any reason (and i mean ANY reason) you're doubtful do not rent to them.
be patient, there are plenty of excellent tenants out there.

Pawwed Rig

space_man wrote: »

it's a very good time to buy as property prices are rock bottom

That is a bold statement on foot of the recent IMF report that is pushing the banks to repossess more properties and another recent report that claimed releasing these properties onto the open market could depress prices by another 25%. Along with an effective unemployment rate of up to 23%, the central bank reducing growth forecasts for next year, there has not been too much good news. Added to this property taxes, water charges coming down the line and the anti landlord sentiment in this country it is not time to be a landlord (imho). I can see the mortgage interest relief being further reduced to 50% in the next couple of years aswell as the SW rates being further reduced. Also Croke Park 2 is seeking to lower wages which will affect demand for housing stock.

I would like to believe the prices are rock bottom but there is just no good news out there that would make one optimistic about the future here and the only evidence is that houses is Dublin did not fall in the last quarter (disputable given the sources).

space_man

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That is a bold statement on foot of the recent IMF report that is pushing the banks to repossess more properties and another recent report that claimed releasing these properties onto the open market could depress prices by another 25%. Along with an effective unemployment rate of up to 23%, the central bank reducing growth forecasts for next year, there has not been too much good news. Added to this property taxes, water charges coming down the line and the anti landlord sentiment in this country it is not time to be a landlord (imho). I can see the mortgage interest relief being further reduced to 50% in the next couple of years aswell as the SW rates being further reduced. Also Croke Park 2 is seeking to lower wages which will affect demand for housing stock.

I would like to believe the prices are rock bottom but there is just no good news out there that would make one optimistic about the future here and the only evidence is that houses is Dublin did not fall in the last quarter (disputable given the sources).

demand for good quality property in Dublin remains very strong. (i'm not advocating buying a 1 bed flat in Leitrim btw), while increase in supply has all but ceased.

i dont believe there will be a glut of repossessions onto the market in the kind of numbers you fear for various reasons. people still need housing, and staying single and living with mammy when you're 50 is hardly an answer.

emigration/unemployment remains a problem, but many foreigners continue to find work here and need accommodation. most of these do not share your anti-landlord sentiment fortunately. for the most part they are excellent tenants, unlike many native Irish. personally i wouldn't rent to SW recipients.

economic indicators are not as positive as we would like, but far better than what they were 4 or 5 years ago.

Pawwed Rig

space_man wrote: »

demand for good quality property in Dublin remains very strong.

Certain parts of Dublin only, particularly south Dublin and city centre. This is where everyone wants to live and you are correct in that there is not much supply. Will these prices go up though or just fall at a slower level than other places.

space_man wrote: »

i dont believe there will be a glut of repossessions onto the market in the kind of numbers you fear for various reasons. people still need housing, and staying single and living with mammy when you're 50 is hardly an answer.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/imf-wants-faster-home-repossessions-29172668.html

In its latest staff report, it said the overall number of repossessions in Ireland was very low, with just 0.3pc of those in arrears losing their homes compared to rates of 3pc to 5pc in Britain and the USA.

Bear in mind the IMF are calling the shots in Ireland now.

space_man wrote: »

economic indicators are not as positive as we would like, but far better than what they were 4 or 5 years ago.

Really? GDP is down, GNP is down, unemployment is up, mortgage arrears are up, National debt has increased, taxes have increased, SW income has been reduced, emigration has increased, suicide has increased, consumer confidence reaches new lows every month

space_man wrote: »

most of these do not share your anti-landlord sentiment fortunately.

Ha. I was told in another thread I am anti tenant

space_man wrote: »

for the most part they are excellent tenants, unlike many native Irish. personally i wouldn't rent to SW recipients

I have experienced good and bad irish tenants, good and bad non Irish tenants and good and bad SW tenants

space_man

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Certain parts of Dublin only, particularly south Dublin and city centre. This is where everyone wants to live and you are correct in that there is not much supply. Will these prices go up though or just fall at a slower level than other places.

well if we are to believe the basics of economics, sluggish/no supply and increasing demand tends to lead to a increase in prices. we're already seeing evidence of this in Dublin.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

In its latest staff report, it said the overall number of repossessions in Ireland was very low, with just 0.3pc of those in arrears losing their homes compared to rates of 3pc to 5pc in Britain and the USA.

Bear in mind the IMF are calling the shots in Ireland now.

if as you contend the IMF are truly calling the shots, then our Euro "friends" will cut us a better deal on our banking fiasco. Good news indeed!

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Really? GDP is down, GNP is down, unemployment is up, mortgage arrears are up, National debt has increased, taxes have increased, SW income has been reduced, emigration has increased, suicide has increased, consumer confidence reaches new lows every month

interest rates are on the way down! competitiveness has improved and exports remain strong. unemployment has peaked. FDI remains strong.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have experienced good and bad irish tenants, good and bad non Irish tenants and good and bad SW tenants

agreed. but my point is one must be extremely choosy when renting. my experience has been that foreigners in regular employment make excellent tenants, and for cultural reasons do not suffer (our) anti-landlord bias. (Irish tenants deeply resent handing over 10s of 1,000s of €s to LLs and enriching him/her in the process with absolutely nothing to show for it except maybe a reference.)

Pawwed Rig

space_man wrote: »

well if we are to believe the basics of economics, sluggish/no supply and increasing demand tends to lead to a increase in prices. we're already seeing evidence of this in Dublin.

Yes but this does not back up your point as there is over supply in other parts of Dublin and around the country. We are not seeing this in Dublin as a whole, just certain areas of Dublin.

space_man wrote: »

if as you contend the IMF are truly calling the shots, then our Euro "friends" will cut us a better deal on our banking fiasco. Good news indeed!

I think it is inevitable tbh as ireland cannot afford to pay its debts and the growth forecasts for the last few years have been hopelessly optimistic. They will bleed the population dry before this happens though.

space_man wrote: »

interest rates are on the way down! competitiveness has improved and exports remain strong. unemployment has peaked. FDI remains strong.

Interest rates have been virtually unchanged for the last few years from a ECB perspective but have been going up in Ireland due to the banks insolvency. Can you point to somewhere where they are going down?
Also the abolishment of mortgage interest relief will mean housebuyers pay ALOT more interest in future than they did in the past.
Unemployment has peaked? On what basis? The increase in unemployment has slowed but it is still growing. The IMF described the uneployment rate here as 'staggering'. In response the government has said 'We are introducing water meters. that will create employment.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/imf-irish-jobless-levels-are-staggering-227393.html
Environment Minister Phil Hogan tried to shoot down the figure as he cited two job creation moves taken by the Government — water metering and the Taoiseach’s numerous foreign trips.

“They [the IMF] probably added the training figures as well as the part-time employees onto that list when we deal with the live register figures of 14%.

“And every action of the Government is to ensure that we create jobs. That is why we are not taxing work,” he told RTÉ.

These are the ravings of someone who does not know what they are about.

space_man wrote: »

my experience has been that foreigners in regular employment make excellent tenants, and for cultural reasons do not suffer (our) anti-landlord bias. (Irish tenants deeply resent handing over 10s of 1,000s of €s to LLs and enriching him/her in the process with absolutely nothing to show for it except maybe a reference.)

That statement is just too general to respond to. As I said I have seen good and bad Irish tenants, good and bad foreign tenants and good and bad social welfare tenants.

Doublelime

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

hi all,
Has anyone bought a scond house to rent lately?
Im wondering what taxes you pay?
Do you paytax on th rent you recieve?
If you lost your job in the morning, would you recieve your year of stamps or dolepayment?
Appreciate any help on this/

You don't pay tax unless you want to. You pay the normal prsi and paye. If the person pays you in cash it is your legal responsibility to contact your bank and pay tax. But you can decide yourself.

Doublelime

Doublelime wrote: »

............. If the person pays you in cash it is your legal responsibility to contact your bank and pay tax. But you can decide yourself.

Contact your bank?

You can decide yourself if you want to neglect your tax obligation?

Unreal amount of drivel in a single post.

Victor

Doublelime wrote: »

You don't pay tax unless you want to. You pay the normal prsi and paye. If the person pays you in cash it is your legal responsibility to contact your bank and pay tax. But you can decide yourself.

Dubious legal advice not welcome. On-topic, constructive posts only please.

Moderator

The_Conductor

Doublelime wrote: »

You don't pay tax unless you want to. You pay the normal prsi and paye. If the person pays you in cash it is your legal responsibility to contact your bank and pay tax. But you can decide yourself.

If you intend to ever post in this forum again- read the forum charter and abide by it.

NIMAN

Doublelime wrote: »

You don't pay tax unless you want to. You pay the normal prsi and paye. If the person pays you in cash it is your legal responsibility to contact your bank and pay tax. But you can decide yourself.

There are plenty of LLs who are not declaring their income to Revenue, but that is a big chance they are taking.

If you aren't paid in cash then there will always be some sort of paper trail to you, and should you ever be found out by Revenue, then you will have a hell of a lot of back tax and fines and interest to pay them.

The same people who aren't paying the taxes they owe will be the same ones moaning about the Gov introducing new cuts and taxes. If the Black Economy did not exist, and every LL paid tax on their rental income then the Gov would not have to be so severe in what they cut and tax.