Katherine Cosgrove b Ireland circa 1878

montgo

I am trying to find out where Katherine was born. According to NY Census records, she arrived late 1890s from Ireland, married Michael Blackburn c1901 (no record found) and lived in Brooklyn until she died in 1919. Both Katherine & Michael were buried in St. John's Cemetery

I have just received a copy of her death certificate. Her father is Michael and her mother appears to be Ellen Redden both from Ireland. I have tried RootsIreland without success using various spellings of Redden. I found a Bridget baptised 1882 in Co. Cork with father Michael & mother Ellen Reddin.

Thanks for any assistance.

shanew

Be a little careful searching just RootsIreland unless you know the county before starting your search - they dont have all areas.

Other Cork RC records for the south-west of the county (but not CofI) are available free on www.irishgenealogy.ie

Best place to start would probably be with the civil BMD Index on FamilySearch, but you would need to order research certs (€4) to see the full detail.

What parish etc was that Bridget Cosgrove baptism ?

montgo

Thanks, Shane. There were so many Catherine Cosgrove births around that time on FamilySearch that I was hoping that it would have been easy to locate on RootsIre especially since I had parent's names.

The Bridget mentioned above was baptised in Kilworth, N co Cork.

shanew

parish for Bridget's baptism appears to be Kilworth RC, which is located north east of Fermoy. As far as I can see all the the RC parish is in the Registration district of Fermoy - so that the district to check for on the BMD Index.

There's an Index record for a Kate Cosgrove birth in 1877, which might be worth checking out. Given the date it might be included in the extracted births on Familysearch (these cover many births up to about 1880, and include parents names).

shanew

forgot the details and link for that record :

Name: Kate Cosgrove
Event Type: Birth
Year: 1877
Registration District : Fermoy
Volume: 9 / Page: 749

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBST-CTB

I dont see any sign of a record on the Index for Bridget in Fermoy district - maybe the family missed out a few registrations, or she was registered before a name was finalized, so just 'Female'

link to the extracted civil births collection: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1584963

I'll see if I can find a marriage for Michael and Ellen - narrow down the locaton for this family. As long as the marriage was 1864 or later (assuming RC) it should appear in the index. Cosgrove is a common surname, but Reddin far less frequent, so that's the one to focus on...

shanew

just keep a note of this one for the moment ... neither name matches exactly but caught my eye. A possible marriage (i.e. both on the same page, but not guaranteed to have married each other..)

Quarter/ Year : Jan-Mar 1878
Registration district: Fermoy
Volume: 4 / Page Number: 713

Name listed include : Ellen Reddings and a Michael Coskeran

montgo

I will have another look at the extracted births. I checked earlier and the only births with Michael and Ellen as parents were in Armagh. Ellen's name was recorded as Cosgrove unhelpfully.

I am attaching part of the death cert with parent's names. You might be able to read the names differently. Thx again.

shanew

I've had a quick look at the extracted births, no sign that I'm seeing - the births might be just after their coverage...

Also had a browse to marriage references on the Index - not that many Ellen Redden/Reddan/Reddin - but none match to a Cosgrove that I see...

Many of the Redden listings seems to be in and near Clare and Limerick

There's also a baptism of a Patrick Cosgrove in 1884 the same parish. Seems to be matching the same parents names on the index search.

It's possible the family moved to the parish from elsewhere - e.g. Co. Waterford, and Tipperary border the parish

shanew

^ agree with your Ellen Redden interpretation, father's surname also appears to be Cosgrove - strange 'os' in Cosgrove - maybe compare that 's' with another on the cert to be sure. The ending of Cosgrove and 2nd letter in Redden are a bit strange but that seems to be the register's way of writing an e, as the e in Ireland looks the same.

Coolnabacky1873

If you don't have her passenger list try get that. Shipping companies were legally obliged to collect more passenger info after 1891, incl place of birth. However, standardization of info collection was hit and miss until into the 1900s.

Check the Brooklyn Daily Eagle on fultonhistory.com. for a death notice/obit. Places of origin is sometimes mention.

Headstone might have where she is from.

montgo

Thanks for your help.

Just looking again at my notes, there is a James E Cosgrove, aged 40 who was staying with the family in 1915 NY Census. He is listed as Cousin. I will check if I can locate this James elsewhere.

shanew

I checked that 1878 Coskeran marriage - think it's definitely worth following up. It showed up as a possible cross-match on RootsIreland Index - i.e. that Michael married and Ellen - and it also in Kilworth RC parish.

Too close a match to ignore I think...

Maybe variation of the surnames, or mis-recorded ?

shanew

yippee !

how about this extracted birth

Name : Catherine Coskeran
Birth Date25 Nov 1878
Birthplace : Ballinacarriga, Co. Cork
Parents: Michael Coskeran & Ellen Reddins
Reference IDv 4-2 p 674

wonder if the family later used alternate versions of the surnames....

EDIT: baptism under that surname appears on RootsIreland, in Kilworth RC parish

shanew

According to MacLysaght (not always accurate, but worth a look), the surname Mac Cuskeran (v. close to Coskeran) can be changed to Cosgrave - might account for the surname variation for Michael. The original Irish surname listed is Mac Coscracháin, and apparently many of that surname have their origins in Co. Down.

Irish for Cosgrove is Ó Coscraigh, or Mac Coscraigh - except for the ending quite similar sounding to Mac Coscracháin.

Ponster

Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

Headstone might have where she is from.

I live in Brooklyn if you need any photos of the headstone.

montgo

Wow, a super bit of detective work going on there, Shane. Well done!

I will start looking for Catherine Coskeran on the shiping records, even though there are numerous records for K/Catherine Cosgroves arriving around that time period.

montgo

Ponster wrote: »

I live in Brooklyn if you need any photos of the headstone.

Hi Ponster,
I already checked with Findagrave but the headstones are not listed. I would be delighted if you could take a photo. However, I don't have the location of the plot, I wouldn't want you to waste your time. However, if the cemetery office had the plot location, I would really appreciate your offer.

So Katherine died 1919
Michael died 1943
Infant, Michael Jr. also died 1911

Ponster

No problem. Do you happen to know which St. John's in Brooklyn ?

RGM

Any chance the last name could be Rodden?

montgo

shanew wrote: »

yippee !

how about this extracted birth

Name : Catherine Coskeran
Birth Date25 Nov 1878
Birthplace : Ballinacarriga, Co. Cork
Parents: Michael Coskeran & Ellen Reddins
Reference IDv 4-2 p 674

wonder if the family later used alternate versions of the surnames....

EDIT: baptism under that surname appears on RootsIreland, in Kilworth RC parish

A Katie Coskeran, with date of birth as Nov, 1878 is recorded in Brooklyn for the 1900 Census living with the Condons. I think that this might be her, actually I am pretty sure that it is her, considering the birthdays correspond!! Apparently, she always spelt her name with a K.

Thanks you again Shane for locating those records. Excellent work.

montgo

Ponster wrote: »

No problem. Do you happen to know which St. John's in Brooklyn ?

Oh, I didn't know that there more than one St. John's Cemetery. I will look at the death cert. again to see if there is any other detail. Googling, I found these links. It looks as if this Cemetery is huge but it has lots of famous/notorious names buried within. So no chance of finding any headstone without the plot location!

http://www.cathcemetery-bklyn.org/pages.php?page=58

http://thevelvetrocket.com/2012/01/18/st-john-cemetery-in-queens

Where is other St. John's Cemetery?

montgo

RGM wrote: »

Any chance the last name could be Rodden?

I think now we are pretty sure that it is Redden or similar. Roots Ireland have now thrown up other children born to Reddins, Redding & Reddings! There is a small number with the name of Reddin /Reddings in Killwork for 1901 Census.

montgo

Ponster wrote: »

No problem. Do you happen to know which St. John's in Brooklyn ?

Only detail is St. John's Cemetery on the death certs. The funeral director in both cases was M. J. Smith. Their current address is 255 Ninth St. - I have sent them an email

montgo

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N4FQ-BBK

Margaret Coskeran was born in 1880 to Michael & Ellen Reddings. She may be listed as Margarte Coskoran in Fermoy Urban on 1901 census. However I have found the above marriage record for her in 1908.

Would it not be a bit odd that Margaret would still be using Coskoran in 1908 when her sister was using Cosgrove?

shanew

Catherine/Kate may have just used a more common version of the name, to keep things simple.

Dont know how true they are, but I've heard of stories of immigrants arriving in a country and the officials mishearing the name - so the family name ends up changing. Particularly various European names, sometimes just a spelling variation - e.g. Schmidt to Smith etc

Other took the decision to Anglicize, simplify their names some time later.

pinkypinky

Super detective work, everyone. I love when we can help people.

shanew

Here's the full BMD Index record for Catherine's birth - page number matches the reference on the extracted record.

Name: Catherine Coskeran
Event Type : Birth
Quarter and Year: Oct-Dec 1878
Registration District : Fermoy
Volume: 4 / Page: 674

A research cert from the GRO (€4) would give slightly different details to an RC baptism - e.g. father's occupation, sometimes a more detailed address, although the placename mentioned on the extracted records in this case appears to be the name of a specific towmnland. (The 'place of birth' mentioned on the extracted record is often the name of a sub-district)

Ballynacarriga townland consists of about 238 acres, and is in the Civil Parish of Kilcrumper, Poor Law Union of Fermoy (usually the same area as the registration district). Kilcrumper was one of about 5 civil parishes covered by Kilworth RC parish.

Coolnabacky1873

shanew wrote: »

Catherine/Kate may have just used a more common version of the name, to keep things simple.

Dont know how true they are, but I've heard of stories of immigrants arriving in a country and the officials mishearing the name - so the family name ends up changing. Particularly various European names, sometimes just a spelling variation - e.g. Schmidt to Smith etc

Other took the decision to Anglicize, simplify their names some time later.

Great work Shane and others.

Just wanted to expand on this point as 'they changed the name at Ellis Island' is one of the biggest myths in US genealogy.

Immigration officials interviewing arriving immigrants worked from the ship manifests that had been created in the home country. It was very much in the interest of the shipping companies to get the name right as a passenger who was refused entry to the US was returned to the home country at the expense of the shipping company.

Immigration officials were also specifically hired for their language skills and were often immigrants themselves, or of immigrant parentage.

The vast vast majority of them occurred when the immigrant was in the US.

Now, Ellis Island opened in 1892 so I do wonder if it was the same reasons for immigrants who came before that date.

montgo

Yes, absolutely, great research by Shane et al.

Obviously, I will order a copy of the marriage cert of Michael & Ellen. Is there anything else that I could check to be 100% sure that the Catherine Coskeran born 1878 is the same Katherine Cosgrove who married Ml Blackburn.

I can't understand why I haven't been able to locate a marriage record for them in New York or elsewhere.

Michael was single in the 1900 Census and was married by the NY 1905 Census. In the 1925 Census, Mary Condon, Aunt, age 55, retired was living with the Blackburn family, maybe linking the Katie Coskoran in the 1900 Census who was living with her Uncle/Aunt John & Mary Condon, age 48. Condon being a very common name and the age of 1925 Mary Condon doesn't tally with the first Mary, so no proof there either. Ml Blackburn did not have an Aunt called Condon or a sister who married a Condon.

tcoz2000

Has there been any progress regarding the Cosgrove/Coskeran family in Ireland? I have been tracing back to the same ones..

montgo

Sorry for delay in replying.

As the direct relatives of Katherine & Michael have not shown interest, I did not continue with any further research of Katherine Cosgrove/Coskeran. So perhaps, you could order Michael & Ellen's marriage cert, details above, asap.

Maybe you can give what details that you have on Katherine's sibling/s and and some of the experts here might be able to help.