Paying by cash

strangel00p

Hi there,
appreciate any advice on the following.

I have a builder doing some work on my house. He wants 3000 paid upfront to buy materials and supplies.

I don't have a cheque book and I'm wary handing over 3000 cash. Is there any other secure way I could pay this?

Thanks

Nervous Wreck

I'd be really wary of a builder asking for that kinda money up front tbh....

coylemj

When you mentioned 'secure', are you referring to your own personal security i.e. the risk of you being robbed coming home from the bank, or the fact that you will have no paper record of the act that you handed him €3,000?

If you pay him by cheque or bank draft it will probably delay things by a day or so and if he's overdrawn with the bank beyond his agreed limit, he could lodge your cheque or draft but not be able to withdraw the value of it in cash. If he has cash he can go and buy the materials immediately.

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I'd be really wary of a builder asking for that kinda money up front tbh....

I don't think suppliers are prepared to extend credit to builders these days given the number of them that have gone bust. If the OP's project needs that much in the way of materials then how is the builder going to start the job unless the OP pays something upfront?

strangel00p

coylemj wrote: »

When you mentioned 'secure', are you referring to your own personal security i.e. the risk of you being robbed coming home from the bank, or the fact that you will have no paper record of the act that you handed him €3,000?

If you pay him by cheque or bank draft it will probably delay things by a day or so and if he's overdrawn with the bank beyond his agreed limit, he could lodge your cheque or draft but not be able to withdraw the value of it in cash. If he has cash he can go and buy the materials immediately.



I don't think suppliers are prepared to extend credit to builders these days given the number of them that have gone bust. If the OP's project needs that much in the way of materials then how is the builder going to start the job unless the OP pays something upfront?

Hi there , when I said secure I meant there would be no paper record that I handed over €3000. I would like some way of getting my money back if there was a problem. I don't have a cheque book.

Thanks

coylemj

Write out a receipt on a blank piece of paper and get the builder to sign it when you hand over the cash. If you go to law with the builder later, it will be a civil case and your word (that you handed over the cash) plus that piece of paper will be as good as a cancelled cheque as evidence that you gave him €3,000.

Obviously neither method of payment (cash with receipt or cheque) will guarantee that you get your money back if there's a dispute.

strangel00p

coylemj wrote: »

Write out a receipt on a blank piece of paper and get the builder to sign it when you hand over the cash. If you go to law with the builder later, it will be a civil case and your word (that you handed over the cash) plus that piece of paper will be as good as a cancelled cheque as evidence that you gave him €3,000.

Obviously neither method of payment (cash with receipt or cheque) will guarantee that you get your money back if there's a dispute.

Thank you coylemj

lionela

Just a note here Re.paying for any work.

Any tradesperson in whatever field should at least be in position to start agreed work from his or her own finances ..and as work proceeds then ask for small payments as the work proceeds....particularly builders....the norm is that as the phases in the job are completed ....then under agreement by both parties payments are made to assist purchase of materials as the work progresses.

Be careful in handing over cash unless you have some sort of written agreement on when ...and at what stage the work has being done.

Cheers

unclebill98

There is no way I'd hand over cash, even if he signed anything. I've personally dealt with situations like this before.

Transfer to his bank account or give him a draft. I'd be also very wary of a builder asking for cash up front.

kyia

Could you ask him too order whatever he needs and you just pay the suppliers directly and get it delivered?

P. Breathnach

I'd use a bank draft and ask for a receipt indicating what the payment was for.

digzy

coylemj wrote: »

Write out a receipt on a blank piece of paper and get the builder to sign it when you hand over the cash. If you go to law with the builder later, it will be a civil case and your word (that you handed over the cash) plus that piece of paper will be as good as a cancelled cheque as evidence that you gave him €3,000. .

Not worth the paper it's printed on I'm afraid...........if his business goes into liquidation you'll be fairly down the list of creditors.

OP I've had work done over the years and never paid in advance for anything.
If the builder's that 'weak' I'd get someone else. Fair enough paying him each week if required but up front, nothing.

As regards paying cash, I find that builders go bananas if you give them anything else. Unless you can can claim the work as a legit business expense you're as well off paying them cash so you can avoid the VAT. not good for the rest of us, of course but better for you

coylemj

digzy wrote: »

Not worth the paper it's printed on I'm afraid...........if his business goes into liquidation you'll be fairly down the list of creditors.

Whereas paying by cheque or bank draft makes you some kind of preferred creditor?

Your status as a creditor will be the same if he goes bust no matter how you pay him - you will be an unsecured creditor and get nothing.

My point about getting him to sign a receipt for cash is in case there is a dispute about payments in which case in a civil case the piece of paper will be as good as a cancelled cheque as proof that he was paid that amount, that's all.

P. Breathnach

digzy wrote: »

...
As regards paying cash, I find that builders go bananas if you give them anything else...

I have never paid cash to anybody in the building industry, and never found any of them objecting to cheque payments.

unclebill98

coylemj wrote: »

Whereas paying by cheque or bank draft makes you some kind of preferred creditor?

Your status as a creditor will be the same if he goes bust no matter how you pay him - you will be an unsecured creditor and get nothing.

My point about getting him to sign a receipt for cash is in case there is a dispute about payments in which case in a civil case the piece of paper will be as good as a cancelled cheque as proof that he was paid that amount, that's all.

For me its more to do with proof that you paid him to do work, in case something goes wrong. You have some kind of solid proof it was him who you hired to do the job.

I've dealt with a case of a builder denying he did any work to a house thats chimney had fallen down. All paid in cash and nothing the judge could do.

coylemj

unclebill98 wrote: »

For me its more to do with proof that you paid him to do work, in case something goes wrong. You have some kind of solid proof it was him who you hired to do the job.

I've dealt with a case of a builder denying he did any work to a house thats chimney had fallen down. All paid in cash and nothing the judge could do.

I suspect that was an dispute over the scope of the work and not whether money was paid or not.

If the OP has a piece of paper signed by the builder saying he accepts payment of xxx then that will be accepted by a judge that money changed hands.

What the payment was intended to cover needs to be covered by a written scope of work document which is another matter entirely.

unclebill98

coylemj wrote: »

I suspect that was an dispute over the scope of the work and not whether money was paid or not.

If the OP has a piece of paper signed by the builder saying he accepts payment of xxx then that will be accepted by a judge that money changed hands.

What the payment was intended to cover needs to be covered by a written scope of work document which is another matter entirely.

true, part of the case was he never did it. They said they paid for it, they showed bank with drawl slips, did nothing for them.

This for me is a reason not to deal in cash for such large work etc, fixing a washing machine now is a bit different.

coylemj

I still fail to see why paying the guy cash is such a big deal.

Maybe the OP should get a list of what the guy needs and satisfy themselves that the demand is reasonable to get the project up and running but that's a separate issue from how you pay him.

If he's going to go bust he's going to go bust, how you paid him will make no difference, you'll never get your money back either way.

If he's dodgy and/or incompetent and fails to complete the work to a satisfactory standard, it will make no difference if you paid him by cheque, draft or in cash with a signed receipt. Chances are that his assets consist of an elderly van and a few tools which means suing him will be throwing good money after bad.

digzy wrote: »

OP I've had work done over the years and never paid in advance for anything.
If the builder's that 'weak' I'd get someone else.

A builder who in the present times can't get any credit from suppliers is not necessarily 'weak', that situation is a reflection of the times that are in it for everyone in the trade. When massive contractors like Bernard McNamara can go bust, why would any supplier give credit to a small builder?

digzy

coylemj wrote: »

Whereas paying by cheque or bank draft makes you some kind of preferred creditor?

Your status as a creditor will be the same if he goes bust no matter how you pay him - you will be an unsecured creditor and get nothing.

My point about getting him to sign a receipt for cash is in case there is a dispute about payments in which case in a civil case the piece of paper will be as good as a cancelled cheque as proof that he was paid that amount, that's all.

Perhaps read my post again and point out where I surrested paying in advance for work in either cash/cheque/draft/apples or oranges and refrain from misquoting me please.

Best of luck following up legally with a DIY receipt. You may be right after how many years of legal fees. The costs involved may be a fair proportion of your 3k

digzy

coylemj wrote: »

A builder who in the present times can't get any credit from suppliers is not necessarily 'weak', that situation is a reflection of the times that are in it for everyone in the trade. When massive contractors like Bernard McNamara can go bust, why would any supplier give credit to a small builder?

You're hell bent on another spat, aint ya:rolleyes:

To be fair op hasn't given an idea about the project or the cost of same.
However, given the anecdotal stories we all hear about issues with builders re monetary problems, I'd be reluctant to pay anyone 3k upfront in any manner.
If op is happy themselves that the builder wont fcuk them then hand over the 3k in any form.

Personally, I dont see any issue with paying the builder as the work is done-stage payments. Perhaps, op could have their credit/debit card pre-authorised with the builders suppliers up to an agreed limit. Therefore resolving the builders 'liquidity' issues. Now, this could be a ridiculous suggestion, I dunno cos I've never done it except with hotels. I can see a number of potential pitfalls but it may be a little safer that handing over 3k upfront?

I'm sure coylej will set me straight one way or another;)

coylemj

digzy wrote: »

Best of luck following up legally with a DIY receipt. You may be right after how many years of legal fees. The costs involved may be a fair proportion of your 3k

If you sue someone in court, it is a civil action and if you produce a piece of paper (the DIY receipt as you call it) and swear on oath that you handed the money over and the builder signed the receipt in your presence, that will be accepted as evidence just as well as a cheque.

Why do you think it would be legally defective as evidence that you paid him the money? A cheque could have been used to pay him for repairs or a car or some other work, it doesn't mean anything.

handlemaster

strangel00p wrote: »

Hi there,
appreciate any advice on the following.

I have a builder doing some work on my house. He wants 3000 paid upfront to buy materials and supplies.

I don't have a cheque book and I'm wary handing over 3000 cash. Is there any other secure way I could pay this?

Thanks

I never heard of a legitmate builder doing this. run a mile

digzy

coylemj wrote: »

If you sue someone in court, it is a civil action and if you produce a piece of paper (the DIY receipt as you call it) and swear on oath that you handed the money over and the builder signed the receipt in your presence, that will be accepted as evidence just as well as a cheque.

Why do you think it would be legally defective as evidence that you paid him the money? A cheque could have been used to pay him for repairs or a car or some other work, it doesn't mean anything.

Dunno if your reading abilities are letting you down........
But for the third and final time

I never suggested op had greater security using a cheque or a draft as opposed to cash

OP's best course of action is to avoid a messy situation you've alluded to re civil action.