Jeez, That Ruairi Quinn's a genius!

Snickers Man

According to the Irish Times yesterday he is going to square the circle, invent the perpetual motion machine and open an alchemy plant.

Or as good as.

No. He's actually going to slash waiting lists for schools, and ban most selection procedures such as preferential treatment to families and interviews of prospective children. All while trying to cut a billion out of the budget.

Why has nobody thought of this before?

Down at the bottom of the piece there was a niggly little sentence which alludes to the problem he faces.
"In the 20 per cent of schools where demand exceeds supply there was a need for clarity on enrolment, he said."

No ****, Sherlock!

And what are the 20 per cent of schools where "demand exceeds supply", I wonder?

Perhaps somebody here could enlighten me. (I am not a teacher)

My guess is that most of them are in Dublin and that many of them are non fee paying schools. Am I right?

byhookorbycrook

What will happen is that parents will place names on every single school list far and wide, it will be a disaster.

derb12

Snickers Man wrote: »

No. He's actually going to slash waiting lists for schools, and ban most selection procedures such as preferential treatment to families and interviews of prospective children. All while trying to cut a billion out of the budget.

I don't see how this has amything to do with budget. I've never seen it mentioned in the context of cost-cutting.

Snickers Man wrote: »

Down at the bottom of the piece there was a niggly little sentence which alludes to the problem he faces.
"In the 20 per cent of schools where demand exceeds supply there was a need for clarity on enrolment, he said."

It's hardly tucked away at the bottom of the article. It's a short 6-paragrapher and it's the final paragraph. It's what the whole initiative and the whole article is about - presumably where supply exceeds demand, the school can fill its places in any order it chooses.

Snickers Man wrote: »

And what are the 20 per cent of schools where "demand exceeds supply", I wonder?

Perhaps somebody here could enlighten me. (I am not a teacher)

My guess is that most of them are in Dublin and that many of them are non fee paying schools. Am I right?

I would say that most sizable towns have "the good school" where people are hoping to send their kids. There are certainly several schools I can think of in Dublin. What is your point?

km79

So basically a parent could have a child in school A. Few years later they plan to send second child there so uniform books transport etc are the same BUT they lose the "lottery " . More expense ...

trebormurf

Also means ALL schools must have some sort of plan/provision for students with special educational needs. I've met teachers who still don't know what an SNA is!! Interesting for them if Ruairi's plan comes to fruition!!

Mardy Bum

derb12 wrote: »

I would say that most sizable towns have "the good school" where people are hoping to send their kids. There are certainly several schools I can think of in Dublin. What is your point?

I think this good school bad school idea is a myth in modern Ireland. Academically a school could be good but behaviorally it good be brutal and vice versa.

Snickers Man

derb12 wrote: »

I would say that most sizable towns have "the good school" where people are hoping to send their kids. There are certainly several schools I can think of in Dublin. What is your point?

My point is that there will always be good schools and bad schools and others in between, pace Mardy Burn's comment below. Parents will naturally want to send their children to the good schools, however they may wish to define them.

The question will always be: "How can we ensure our children go to good schools?" One answer, in the cities at any rate is "We will pay to send our children to private schools" Unless you happen to be one of the truly privileged people who manage successfully to get their children into non fee paying schools with good reputations.

My question was what are the 20 per cent of schools that are over subscribed? I would bet that most of them are good non fee paying schools in Dublin. But I don't know. I thought somebody here might.

derb12 wrote: »

I don't see how this has amything to do with budget. I've never seen it mentioned in the context of cost-cutting.

It all comes down to cash in the end. I think most teachers would agree with that.

derb12 wrote: »

presumably where supply exceeds demand, the school can fill its places in any order it chooses.

Well that's a whole lot of nothing.
If a school is undersubscribed, it doesn't need a selection policy.
If it's oversubscribed and can "fill its places in any order it chooses" there's no need for change.

He obviously means schools that pick and choose, whether they are fee paying or not.

Mardy Burn wrote:

I think this good school bad school idea is a myth in modern Ireland. Academically a school could be good but behaviorally it good be brutal and vice versa

Schools that people want to send their kids to are good ones. Schools that parents will pay fees or commute long distances to avoid are bad ones. Simples.

Mardy Bum

Snickers Man wrote: »

Schools that people want to send their kids to are good ones. Schools that parents will pay fees or commute long distances to avoid are bad ones. Simples.

I was talking from a teachers point of view. What a parent things and the actual reality of the situation can be very different.

StillWaters

km79 wrote: »

So basically a parent could have a child in school A. Few years later they plan to send second child there so uniform books transport etc are the same BUT they lose the "lottery " . More expense ...

Many ET schools operate on a lottery basis now. Parents are well aware of this when they enrol their first child.

RealJohn

StillWaters wrote: »

Many ET schools operate on a lottery basis now. Parents are well aware of this when they enrol their first child.

That's an awful policy to have in all fairness. Whatever about children who have past pupils as siblings or parents, children who have siblings as current students should obviously be given priority. It doesn't make sense not to for the reasons already mentioned.

Lord TSC

RealJohn wrote: »

That's an awful policy to have in all fairness. Whatever about children who have past pupils as siblings or parents, children who have siblings as current students should obviously be given priority. It doesn't make sense not to for the reasons already mentioned.

See though, this is one of those things that it should be up to the parents to be out protesting about, and writing to their TDs etc.

Imagine if someone has two kids in two different schools, the expense, the school runs in the morning and evening to multiple schools, it's going to put a lot of pressure onto a lot of people.

But I bet most prospective parents won't even realise such problems until it's too late, because the only time a lot of people take notice of what the Education Minister is doing is when they want to bash teachers...worse, when it comes in, I bet you anything that teachers take all the flack for it.

derb12

Don't get indignant about legislation that doesn't exist yet. As the last poster said - lobby your TD to get the sibling criteria included if that is what you believe in. FYI the original discussion paper seems to suggest that the sibling criteria has legitimacy.

evolving_doors

Basically RQ is like a kid with a hammer....everything he sees is a nail.

He's all over the shop...

Reform JC
Reform LC
Reform Maths
Reform teachers' education
Reform teachers terms and conditions
Reform Primary school entrance policies
Reform special needs (by cut backs)
Reform school patronage
Reform public vs. fee charging schools

And how does he intend to do all this?
Well apart from the money that was already laid out for Project Maths...he achieves all of this reform by ...you guessed it..investing in cutbacks