Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

Czarcasm

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

You can't, but the general attitude tells you a lot. I can generally see very easily whether someone means 'I need some chocolate ice-cream' kind of down or 'I've been thinking about killing myself' kind of down. It depends on the person, but when people say things like 'oh, I was really down last month after Ryan dumped me, but I'm grand now', I think it's safe to assume they're not suffering from clinical depression.

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

I personally am very good at seeing the difference, I don't know whether that's because I suffer from depression myself and see the signs or I'm perceptive. I'm a teacher and have got help for several students who other teachers thought were just whiny teenagers. The average person, I agree with you, isn't good at all at seeing it, which is why people who are genuinely desperate are brushed off as moany holes.

I've read through all 30 pages so far of this discussion and I've seen posters be smug, condescending, and self righteous (even Odysseus near got bogged down in the e-penis measuring before they came good with some great information), but the above, jesus...

I came into this thread hoping to learn more about understanding suicide and mental illness. I learned nothing, and I don't think anyone reading this thread so far will have learned anything other than this thread is one almighty píssing contest with posters who want to listen, and posters who want to understand and be educated, being pretty much told "oh you don't want to listen and you're too stupid to understand anyway".

I get that people suffering from depression are suffering under a weight of constant negativity, but fcuk me, being a self righteous, condescending prick, has nothing to do with depression or mental health, that's simply called an attitude problem.

CillianL

Donal Walsh is brave and inspiring

Suicide is a rejection of the life we've been granted with and the challenges one is faced with.

Odysseus

CaraMay wrote: »

Yeah well that seems easy but the impression portrayed here by people who feel hard done by is that you can ask someone 50 times if they are ok and they yes but if you don't ask them 51 times or at a time they want to be asked then you are a useless friend / relative. It's easy to say people have to listen but if people insist on acting like all is ok then people start to assume all is ok. It's very complicated

If a person does not want to acknowledge they have a problem there is very little one can do about it.

What gves you that impression, I not picking that up re: friend/relative.

However, such things are very complicated.

When I say listen, I mean listen not giving advice, not telling them things aren't really like that etc.

To sit and really listen to a person and see things from their perspective is far from easy. Most people jump straight into advise or fix it mode.I even know plenty of professions who can't just sit and listen to a person.

Czarcasm

Czarcasm wrote: »

I've read through all 30 pages so far of this discussion and I've seen posters be smug, condescending, and self righteous (even Odysseus near got bogged down in the e-penis measuring before they came good with some great information), but the above, jesus...

I came into this thread hoping to learn more about understanding suicide and mental illness. I learned nothing, and I don't think anyone reading this thread so far will have learned anything other than this thread is one almighty píssing contest with posters who want to listen, and posters who want to understand and be educated, being pretty much told "oh you don't want to listen and you're too stupid to understand anyway".

I get that people suffering from depression are suffering under a weight of constant negativity, but fcuk me, being a self righteous, condescending prick, has nothing to do with depression or mental health, that's simply called an attitude problem.

Sorry if it sounds arrogant, but I am very perceptive. I am. I've spent my entire life with people coming up to me saying 'but how on earth did you KNOW??' I'm not going to apologise for that, I'm going to use it in the best way I can.

I've stepped in when students were about to be suspended for lack of attendance and written off as spoiled, moany sh*ts and recommended that they see a psychiatrist. One young man who I insisted got professional help was sectioned shortly afterwards and as far as I know, is still under the care of doctors. I was the only person in the entire place who spotted how sick he was. So sorry if I consider myself to be more tuned into this than the average person, but I don't think my intuition has ever let me down. I'm not a professional and would never claim to be, but I think my own experiences mean I see things others don't notice or write off as nothing.

Steve O

Czarcasm wrote: »

I came into this thread hoping to learn more about understanding suicide and mental illness.

Not really though.

tomthetank

I'd like to hear more about the differences between your "run-of-the-mill" down day / week / month, versus clinical depression.

Because I've sure as hell gone through horrible phases where a particularly awful event -say, family trauma, break up or job loss has stunted me to the point where I couldn't get out of bed, or engage with others, or eat, or feel any kind of joy in life, or verbalise - or even feel the desire to verbalise how I was feeling, where I considered what would happen if I decided to end it all.

I never would, and I never considered this to be "clinical depression" as I'd always emerge out the other side, but I personally find it insulting for such an episode to be dismissed because "everyone goes through that" - or for it to be "proof" that I couldn't possibly understand what real clinical depression must be like.

There's a spectrum here, and there are many classifications and as another poster mentioned, this is not a pissing contest.

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

I'm a card-carrying Catholic.

I think all this public outpouring of grief when someone kills themselves is pretty self-gratuitous. It seems suicide funerals exist to serve the needs of those in "grief" (very often the same people who turned their back on the suicide victim) rather than the needs of the deceased's soul.

It must be a pretty awful thing to have to present yourself at the pearly gates having taken your own God-given life. Unless there are some pretty strong mitigating circumstances (such as mental illness); there are very few excuses. But it's not me who'll judge -- it's God whose job that is.

Education is the key to tackling suicide. The more widely read one is; the more exposed you are to all the various different kinds of human grief. The more you realise that your problems aren't that big.

starlings

Steve O wrote: »

Not really though.

wow, you must have the intuitive superpowers too.

CaraMay

So if someone who is being bullied and comes to you saying I'm fat, I'm ugly and I'm stupid, you can't tell them that's not the case???

Dealing with someone who is severely depressed is way beyond the capabilities of any inexperienced person so I'm saying if you feel unheard, try to understand, it's a skill which is lacking rather than someone not wanting to listen to you.

Steve O

starlings wrote: »

wow, you must have the intuitive superpowers too.

No, I can read though.

Corkfeen

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I'm a card-carrying Catholic.

I think all this public outpouring of grief when someone kills themselves is pretty self-gratuitous. It seems suicide funerals exist to serve the needs of those in "grief" (very often the same people who turned their back on the suicide victim) rather than the needs of the deceased's soul.

It must be a pretty awful thing to have to present yourself at the pearly gates having taken your own God-given life. Unless there are some pretty strong mitigating circumstances (such as mental illness); there are very few excuses. But it's not me who'll judge -- it's God whose job that is.

Education is the key to tackling suicide. The more widely read one is; the more exposed you are to all the various different kinds of human grief. The more you realise that your problems aren't that big.

Are you really saying that people are suicidal because they're not widely read enough and are unaware that other people suffer? You're claiming that you won't cast judgement but that's exactly what you're doing. Education on the subject is important but not in the way you think it is.

tomthetank

tomthetank wrote: »

I'd like to hear more about the differences between your "run-of-the-mill" down day / week / month, versus clinical depression.

Because I've sure as hell gone through horrible phases where a particularly awful event -say, family trauma, break up or job loss has stunted me to the point where I couldn't get out of bed, or engage with others, or eat, or feel any kind of joy in life, or verbalise - or even feel the desire to verbalise how I was feeling, where I considered what would happen if I decided to end it all.

I never would, and I never considered this to be "clinical depression" as I'd always emerge out the other side, but I personally find it insulting for such an episode to be dismissed because "everyone goes through that" - or for it to be "proof" that I couldn't possibly understand what real clinical depression must be like.

There's a spectrum here, and there are many classifications and as another poster mentioned, this is not a pissing contest.

I'm not a professional but clinical depression doesn't necessarily mean you have it all the time. Plenty of people have depression which comes and goes and which is in response to something that happens. You might want to watch that video that was posted here twice - it's really informative and interesting and the professor addresses some of these questions.

DarkJager

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I'm a card-carrying Catholic.

I think all this public outpouring of grief when someone kills themselves is pretty self-gratuitous. It seems suicide funerals exist to serve the needs of those in "grief" (very often the same people who turned their back on the suicide victim) rather than the needs of the deceased's soul.

It must be a pretty awful thing to have to present yourself at the pearly gates having taken your own God-given life. Unless there are some pretty strong mitigating circumstances (such as mental illness); there are very few excuses. But it's not me who'll judge -- it's God whose job that is.

Education is the key to tackling suicide. The more widely read one is; the more exposed you are to all the various different kinds of human grief. The more you realise that your problems aren't that big.

That's a very simplistic view but one to be expected from people simple enough to believe they'll be arriving at "pearly gates" when they die. Newsflash: the only thing that happens when you die is you cease to exist and your body will rot in a box in the ground. That's reality but if an almighty sky spook waiting to judge you in the clouds makes you feel any better then go ahead and delude yourself with that.

Odysseus

tomthetank wrote: »

I'd like to hear more about the differences between your "run-of-the-mill" down day / week / month, versus clinical depression.

Because I've sure as hell gone through horrible phases where a particularly awful event -say, family trauma, break up or job loss has stunted me to the point where I couldn't get out of bed, or engage with others, or eat, or feel any kind of joy in life, or verbalise - or even feel the desire to verbalise how I was feeling, where I considered what would happen if I decided to end it all.

I never would, and I never considered this to be "clinical depression" as I'd always emerge out the other side, but I personally find it insulting for such an episode to be dismissed because "everyone goes through that" - or for it to be "proof" that I couldn't possibly understand what real clinical depression must be like.

There's a spectrum here, and there are many classifications and as another poster mentioned, this is not a pissing contest.

Have a look at either the ICD-10 or the DSM for the current criteria for depressive episodes or states. These are the current classification that we work from.

I am not recommending self-diagnosis but if a persons experience falls with the various criteria set down in the diagnostic manuals, well then they are currently experiencing a depressive episode.

Just goggle ICD-10 depressive episode and this should give you a good starting point on making a distinction between the two.

I would like to see more people made aware of these criteria as there are people who are depressed but they are actually unaware of it.

Steve O

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

I'm not a professional but clinical depression doesn't necessarily mean you have it all the time. Plenty of people have depression which comes and goes and which is in response to something that happens. You might want to watch that video that was posted here twice - it's really informative and interesting and the professor addresses some of these questions.

You can go through a serious high some days, then it is like a train hits you, it really is unexplainable. That video is brilliant in that the guy points out the shear complexity of it.

jigglypuffstuff

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Sorry if it sounds arrogant, but I am very perceptive. I am. I've spent my entire life with people coming up to me saying 'but how on earth did you KNOW??' I'm not going to apologise for that, I'm going to use it in the best way I can.

I've stepped in when students were about to be suspended for lack of attendance and written off as spoiled, moany sh*ts and recommended that they see a psychiatrist. One young man who I insisted got professional help was sectioned shortly afterwards and as far as I know, is still under the care of doctors. I was the only person in the entire place who spotted how sick he was. So sorry if I consider myself to be more tuned into this than the average person, but I don't think my intuition has ever let me down. I'm not a professional and would never claim to be, but I think my own experiences mean I see things others don't notice or write off as nothing.

Well now im going to inform you of a few truths that i was going to omit but seeing as we are being honest and open here

I helped my ex through 5 straight years of -
bipolar disorder, depression,anxiety,bulimia, anorexia and also something is rather not state here PM if you wish that was from 15-20

I helped a sibling through anxiety and my cousin the same

Ive helped my parent through depression and OCD

Ive helped myself overcome OCD and milder case of depression (not feeling down)

not to mention the numerous friends through their own various issues and problems

Not to mention the schizophrenics related and the 3 nervous breakdowns in my family that i had numerous talks with and was present for many episodes including a breakdown

All by doing one thing - listening for hours, days and yes years on end (and giving sound advice)

I am stating this for one simple reason - Earlier you wrote me off and said i knew nothing of mental health and didnt know what it felt like, had no experience, and had more or less no knowledge of what im talking about.

Ive seen things others didn't see, i spoke about things others feared, i seen my partner cut herself i see damn near the worst of the worst, families torn from these issues, ive see things to hurtful to even describe here

Im saying all of this now just to let you know, just because someone has a certain opinion of something I wouldnt be so quick to categorize them with people who dont understand because ive been seeing things like this as long as i can remember! Im not saying this in any bad way either

And I respect the fact you helped others when they were often brushed off by the majority also!! Well done to you

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

DarkJager wrote: »

That's a very simplistic view but one to be expected from people simple enough to believe they'll be arriving at "pearly gates" when they die. Newsflash: the only thing that happens when you die is you cease to exist and your body will rot in a box in the ground. That's reality but if an almighty sky spook waiting to judge you in the clouds makes you feel any better then go ahead and delude yourself with that.

I understand you're probably a hip-cool-with-it-atheist, but why the chippyness and bigotry?

What's your ambition in life? To have a good time? To experience as much pleasure as possible before death?

The continuum of life from conception to death is a mystery. I can tell you for sure that I didn't create myself. I can also tell you for sure that God sent His Son to walk the earth 2000 years ago (no doubt you'll attempt to deny this); and from His presence, the New Testament came into being. Humanity cannot and never has known everything. We must strive to do good in our day-to-day lives and live according to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

If you wish to believe that when you die, you simply "cease to exist" because you read this in some airport book written by Dawkins or someone; that fine. There is lower hanging fruit for us Christians to work at evangelising.

CaraMay

CaraMay wrote: »

So if someone who is being bullied and comes to you saying I'm fat, I'm ugly and I'm stupid, you can't tell them that's not the case???

Dealing with someone who is severely depressed is way beyond the capabilities of any inexperienced person so I'm saying if you feel unheard, try to understand, it's a skill which is lacking rather than someone not wanting to listen to you.

That's all well and good when you keep asking if the person is OK and they keep saying yes. You're right, that does happen and only someone with the patience of a saint is going to keep at it.

My point was that I made it very clear all wasn't OK and people just didn't want to believe it. They can't comprehend that the person who was laughing yesterday is actually feeling really desperate inside. I totally understand that, nobody really wants to believe that a friend/colleague/family member is that depressed because it's awkward and uncomfortable. I've been on the other side of it. It's human nature to essentially want to say 'ah it'll be grand!'

DarkJager

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote:

I understand you're probably a hip-cool-with-it-atheist, but why the chippyness and bigotry?

What's your ambition in life? To have a good time? To experience as much pleasure as possible before death?

The continuum of life from conception to death is a mystery. I can tell you for sure that I didn't create myself. I can also tell you for sure that God sent His Son to walk the earth 2000 years ago (no doubt you'll attempt to deny this); and from His presence, the New Testament came into being. Humanity cannot and never has known everything. We must strive to do good in our day-to-day lives and live according to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

If you wish to believe that when you die, you simply "cease to exist" because you read this in some airport book written by Dawkins or someone; that fine. There is lower hanging fruit for us Christians to work at evangelising.

The onus is on you to prove what you claim. Bring me proof that something you read about in a book that happened 2000 years ago actually happened. Bring me solid proof that you have personally contacted someone from the afterlife to confirm that they still exist. Until then your post is simply the usual nonsensical **** you religious types like to spew. Ill take my logical outlook over your deluded ideology any day.

pone2012

pone2012 wrote: »

Well now im going to inform you of a few truths that i was going to omit but seeing as we are being honest and open here

I helped my ex through 5 straight years of -
bipolar disorder, depression,anxiety,bulimia, anorexia and also something is rather not state here PM if you wish that was from 15-20

I helped a sibling through anxiety and my cousin the same

Ive helped my parent through depression and OCD

Ive helped myself overcome OCD and milder case of depression (not feeling down)

not to mention the numerous friends through their own various issues and problems

Not to mention the schizophrenics related and the 3 nervous breakdowns in my family that i had numerous talks with and was present for many episodes including a breakdown

All by doing one thing - listening for hours, days and yes years on end (and giving sound advice)

I am stating this for one simple reason - Earlier you wrote me off and said i knew nothing of mental health and didnt know what it felt like, had no experience, and had more or less no knowledge of what im talking about.

Ive seen things others didn't see, i spoke about things others feared, i seen my partner cut herself i see damn near the worst of the worst, families torn from these issues, ive see things to hurtful to even describe here

Im saying all of this now just to let you know, just because someone has a certain opinion of something I wouldnt be so quick to categorize them with people who dont understand because ive been seeing things like this as long as i can remember! Im not saying this in any bad way either

And I respect the fact you helped others when they were often brushed off by the majority also!! Well done to you

Look, it's great that you were there for people and listened, but the fact remains that a lot of what you posted indicated a scary lack of knowledge about mental health and the mindset of depressed and suicidal people....stuff about people having the 'choice' to be depressed, suicide being selfish etc. Seeing or knowing someone suffering from a mental illness is not the same as understanding it or how it actually feels. I grew up with various family members with different mental illnesses and I certainly listened and felt sorry for them and tried to say the right things, but I hadn't the slightest idea of how it actually feels until I experienced it myself.

Czarcasm

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Sorry if it sounds arrogant, but I am very perceptive. I am. I've spent my entire life with people coming up to me saying 'but how on earth did you KNOW??' I'm not going to apologise for that, I'm going to use it in the best way I can.

I've stepped in when students were about to be suspended for lack of attendance and written off as spoiled, moany sh*ts and recommended that they see a psychiatrist. One young man who I insisted got professional help was sectioned shortly afterwards and as far as I know, is still under the care of doctors. I was the only person in the entire place who spotted how sick he was. So sorry if I consider myself to be more tuned into this than the average person, but I don't think my intuition has ever let me down. I'm not a professional and would never claim to be, but I think my own experiences mean I see things others don't notice or write off as nothing.

It wasn't your intuition I was drawing attention to at all, we can all be intuitive in our own ways. The straw breaking the camel's back was when you said it was safe to assume anything, about anybody.

You'd imagine given your experience and your profession that you would understand that people can be very adept at covering up their problems, that they will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear, so when somebody says I feel shìt today and, an hour later says I feel great today, safe to assume they're not suffering from clinical depression is it?

I think if I was you I would check my perception of myself tbh. I'm not saying you're projecting, but you're coming off a bit like the blind leading the blind. Just because you have come to an understanding of your own mental illness does not mean you could even possibly begin to understand anyone elses.

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

DarkJager wrote: »

The onus is on you to prove what you claim. Bring me proof that something you read about in a book that happened 2000 years ago actually happened. Bring me solid proof that you have personally contacted someone from the afterlife to confirm that they still exist. Until then your post is simply the usual nonsensical **** you religious types like to spew at any chance.

Ah... One of those! A Bible-denyer.

And a chippy one at that.

I have never "personally contacted someone from the afterlife". Have you?

And there was me thinking that Limerick was a holy place. Did you have the benefit of a Catholic education yourself?

ladysarah

very very sad I can only imagine how the boys feels. god comfort him. He has nio undetstanding on suicide but who does at 16

Czarcasm

Czarcasm wrote: »

It wasn't your intuition I was drawing attention to at all, we can all be intuitive in our own ways. The straw breaking the camel's back was when you said it was safe to assume anything, about anybody.

You'd imagine given your experience and your profession that you would understand that people can be very adept at covering up their problems, that they will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear, so when somebody says I feel shìt today and, an hour later says I feel great today, safe to assume they're not suffering from clinical depression is it?

I should have been clearer about what I meant by that statement, my fault. I most certainly didn't mean it was safe to assume anything about anybody. I meant when someone is using 'depressed' as a synonym for sad/frustrated/fed up in a context where it's obvious they don't mean clinically depressed.
'OMG so depressed, no red tops left in my size!!!! #gutted' kind of thing or they're 'devastated' that their football team lost. Not when you ask how someone is and they say they feel sh*t. I'd always be concerned by that.

jigglypuffstuff

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Look, it's great that you were there for people and listened, but the fact remains that a lot of what you posted indicated a scary lack of knowledge about mental health and the mindset of depressed and suicidal people....stuff about people having the 'choice' to be depressed, suicide being selfish etc. Seeing or knowing someone suffering from a mental illness is not the same as understanding it or how it actually feels. I grew up with various family members with different mental illnesses and I certainly listened and felt sorry for them and tried to say the right things, but I hadn't the slightest idea of how it actually feels until I experienced it myself.

Perhaps you missed the part where i said I too suffered from depression?, so if all you are basing the 'idea' that you know alot about the subject on is you own experience from feeling them emotions then you haven't really got any more experience than I do

Remember what i posted earlier is my opinion, opinions are not facts! I have religious beliefs but i also study biological psychology which teaches evolution So i keep the two separate, one is my opinion the other is fact

Also I said nothing about people having a choice to be depressed I said the act of suicide is a choice, theres a big difference

So let me ask you now that Ive clarified that : what exactly do you know about my knowledge of mental health?

Lyra Fangs

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Ah... One of those! A Bible-denyer.

And a chippy one at that.

I have never "personally contacted someone from the afterlife". Have you?

And there was me thinking that Limerick was a holy place. Did you have the benefit of a Catholic education yourself?

I really don't think there's any need to be dragging religion into this thread. In saying that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and they should not be insulted for holding such beliefs and I'm referring to the religious and non-religious alike!

Czarcasm

Steve O wrote: »

Not really though.

See, this is the kind of petty, condescending, point scoring crap I was talking about. You don't know jack shìt about me or why I would seek to try and understand more about suicide and mental illness, but you assume to know my motives from one post alone.

Well done Sir, I hope the three thanks you got for that crap helped to reinforce your inflated intellect and massage your smug ego.

I'm still waiting for you to contribute something useful to the thread.

Czarcasm

Czarcasm wrote: »

I think if I was you I would check my perception of myself tbh. I'm not saying you're projecting, but you're coming off a bit like the blind leading the blind. Just because you have come to an understanding of your own mental illness does not mean you could even possibly begin to understand anyone elses.

I think my self perception is fine. I've been told the same by plenty of professionals, so don't worry about that. I read people and situations exceptionally well, that's all. I know it sounds arrogant to say it which is why I usually don't, and I try not to give unsolicited advice, but it's something people quickly notice about me, no more to say.

jim_beam

im sure this 16 year old is a great guy and i deeply sympathise with him for the terrible disease he has but if i am to comment on his views on suicide alone and exclude all other details about the young man , i have to say he is at best misinformed if not ignorant and at worst , insensitive and crass

he put himself out there as some kind of wise counsel on the issue of suicide and he is anything but , what he said does nothing for those who suffer with mental illness , frankly , it does harm

Steve O

Czarcasm wrote: »

See, this is the kind of petty, condescending, point scoring crap I was talking about. You don't know jack shìt about me or why I would seek to try and understand more about suicide and mental illness, but you assume to know my motives from one post alone.

Well done Sir, I hope the three thanks you got for that crap helped to reinforce your inflated intellect and massage your smug ego.

I'm still waiting for you to contribute something useful to the thread.

No you see, I will engage with you when you have something constructive to say. The only posts you have made in contribution, is to state that the people whom have quite rightly pointed out what the boy said was wrong they were still sympathetic. Instead of insulting everyone in the thread, point out all of the so-called "smug, condescending, and self righteous" posts up until your own.

pablomakaveli

For anyone who wants to know what living with depression is like there was an author called Matthew Johnstone who made a book I Had a Black Dog which shows it in quite a simple method where in the book the Black Dog is depression.

You can read the first few pages of it here:

http://matthewjohnstone.com.au/courses/i-had-a-black-dog/

And another one called Living with a Black Dog which is aimed towards people who live with someone with depression:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/gallery/2009/jan/28/mental-health-depression-black-dog

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I understand you're probably a hip-cool-with-it-atheist, but why the chippyness and bigotry?

What's your ambition in life? To have a good time? To experience as much pleasure as possible before death?

The continuum of life from conception to death is a mystery. I can tell you for sure that I didn't create myself. I can also tell you for sure that God sent His Son to walk the earth 2000 years ago (no doubt you'll attempt to deny this); and from His presence, the New Testament came into being. Humanity cannot and never has known everything. We must strive to do good in our day-to-day lives and live according to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

If you wish to believe that when you die, you simply "cease to exist" because you read this in some airport book written by Dawkins or someone; that fine. There is lower hanging fruit for us Christians to work at evangelising.

The only thing more annoying than a militant atheist is an evangalist.

Chronic Button

Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »

Look, it's great that you were there for people and listened, but the fact remains that a lot of what you posted indicated a scary lack of knowledge about mental health and the mindset of depressed and suicidal people....

Oh change the bloody record

Czarcasm

Steve O wrote: »

No you see, I will engage with you when you have something constructive to say. The only posts you have made in contribution, is to state that the people whom have quite rightly pointed out what the boy said was wrong they were still sympathetic. Instead of insulting everyone in the thread, point out all of the so-called "smug, condescending, and self righteous" posts up until your own.

"Quite rightly" in your opinion. You conveniently left that bit out. I'm not going back over the whole thread to quote the multitude of condescending posts and posts that show a complete lack of understanding of what the boy was trying to say.

It doesn't matter that he was only 16, I've seen plenty of 16 year old's that had the life experience and maturity of persons twice their age, and by that same token I've also seen the opposite- grown adults behaving like children, and some of the posts in this thread are evidence of that, and evidence of people who are quite willing to quickly dismiss other people who don't jig with their world view.

Steve O

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm not going back over the whole thread to quote the multitude of condescending posts and posts that show a complete lack of understanding of what the boy was trying to say.

I didn't think you would.

Czarcasm

Steve O wrote: »

I didn't think you would.

Bear with me Steve, I'll be back in a while, I'm posting from mobile so this copying and pasting lark is going to be a pain in the proverbial.

I know the evidence will only be met with a "So fcuking what?" type retort, much like the way another poster when they shared their story was told they still had no experience of suicide and depression by the armchair experts (hence why I won't be sharing in this particular thread, but was still reading hoping to learn something), but sure I'll have at it anyway.

Odysseus

Actually despite all the sh!te the website has got over the past few weeks, this is not a bad page here http://spunout.ie/health/article/helping-a-friend-or-family-member-stop-self-harming

For people looking for basic info, it is not bad

Lyra Fangs

Czarcasm wrote: »

"Quite rightly" in your opinion. You conveniently left that bit out. I'm not going back over the whole thread to quote the multitude of condescending posts and posts that show a complete lack of understanding of what the boy was trying to say.

It doesn't matter that he was only 16, I've seen plenty of 16 year old's that had the life experience and maturity of persons twice their age, and by that same token I've also seen the opposite- grown adults behaving like children, and some of the posts in this thread are evidence of that, and evidence of people who are quite willing to quickly dismiss other people who don't jig with their world view.

Most of the people on this thread know what the boy was trying to say, their issue is not with the underlying message but how it was communicated. As another poster said earlier criticising a person's views is not in itself a personal attack on that person. No one has insulted the boy or been condescending they have simply stated that the boy should not have been given the opportunity to speak about issues he clearly knows very little about on national television.

CaraMay

He knows a lot about dying so maybe he is very qualified to speak.

Corkfeen

Odysseus wrote: »

Actually despite all the sh!te the website has got over the past few weeks, this is not a bad page here http://spunout.ie/health/article/helping-a-friend-or-family-member-stop-self-harming

For people looking for basic info, it is not bad

Indeed, it really is a rather good website. I hope to feck that they don't cut their funding.

Czarcasm

Steve O wrote: »

I didn't think you would.

I didn't have to go too far, saves me posting a three page post of quotes, some of which would look out of context. Thankfully you kept yours short and snappy, and keep in mind these are only a selection of YOUR posts in this thread-

Steve O wrote: »

Feel bad for his situation but he is fcuking clueless.


He's young though.

Steve O wrote: »

It really isn't that simple for depressives.

They can't have a simple lily white view of the world that you seem to have. Again a product of not educating yourself on the subject.

Steve O wrote: »

Then excuse me if I say you're full of shit.

And to the above, I shall leave you the last word-

Steve O wrote: »

The irony.

Seachmall

CaraMay wrote: »

He knows a lot about dying so maybe he is very qualified to speak.

Why? Has he returned from the dead?

We all know we're going to die. He will sadly die sooner than anyone should have to but that doesn't make him an authority on death and it definitely doesn't make him an authority on depression.

It does make him an authority on how he copes with knowing he will die soon, but not on how others 'should' cope with depression.

Lyra Fangs

CaraMay wrote: »

He knows a lot about dying so maybe he is very qualified to speak.

Privately maybe, but not on national television where his words will reach thousands of people some of whom may very well be contemplating suicide or battling with depression and who may be negatively affected by what he says.

In saying that, dying is a very different thing to suicide. Just because he is going through a tremendously difficult experience (which I would not wish on my greatest enemy) does not mean he can speak freely about suicide or depression as if he suddenly has a profound understanding of such issues.

CaraMay

And yet Lyra you can speak on behalf of the depressed of the country. Hypocrisy anyone???

Seachmall

CaraMay wrote: »

And yet Lyra you can speak on behalf of the depressed of the country. Hypocrisy anyone???

There is a difference between presenting opinions in a casual discussion and starting a national campaign to tell suicidal people to "sleep on it".

Lyra Fangs

CaraMay wrote: »

And yet Lyra you can speak on behalf of the depressed of the country. Hypocrisy anyone???

I never claimed to speak on behalf of everyone who's depressed in the country. If anything I've actively tried to avoid saying "all" or "everyone". I offer only my opinion of what this boy has said and how it might appear to some people in the midst of depression. Many other posters on here share the same opinion as me so I can't be the only one who thinks that he come across as uninformed and judgmental.

jigglypuffstuff

Seachmall wrote: »

There is a difference between presenting opinions in a casual discussion and starting a national campaign to tell suicidal people to "sleep on it".

The message to take from that was to think about the action said person is going to commit, Surely people understood that?

Seachmall

pone2012 wrote: »

The message to take from that was to think about the action said person is going to commit, Surely people understood that?

Presumably they did. It doesn't reduce how absurd a statement it is though.

Czarcasm

Lyra Fangs wrote: »

Most of the people on this thread know what the boy was trying to say, their issue is not with the underlying message but how it was communicated. As another poster said earlier criticising a person's views is not in itself a personal attack on that person. No one has insulted the boy or been condescending they have simply stated that the boy should not have been given the opportunity to speak about issues he clearly knows very little about on national television.

Lyra I've already pointed out just one poster, well, another who I initially took issue with when they too assumed they knew all about suicide, mental illness depression, when all either poster and others have, is a bare minimum grasp understanding of their own mental illness.

Fcuk me even the normally rational Odysseus surprised me by linking posters to the DSM and telling them if they identify with any of the symptoms they may just be suffering from a mental illness. And nobody pulled up a mental health professional for possibly fostering hypochondria in an unknown audience. Odysseus themselves should have known better that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, a lot of it, can be fatal. Odysseus has years of education and experience in the field of mental health, yet expects people to be able to interpret the DSM from a quick five minute google search.

All too busy ripping apart a 16 year old's opinion that was aimed at young people, not once in the independent article was the word depression mentioned, and when he said "sleep on it", he meant for young people with suicidal thoughts to hold off on the knee jerk reaction to commit suicide when they're going through a rough patch, as distinct from going through depression.

Despair, is not depression, but posters here who have acknowledged that they suffer from depression, chose to interpret his words to suit their frame of mind. It's an interesting conundrum for anyone who says that the perception of a mentally ill person is their reality. It may be semantic to some, but for others it's a damn important distinction to make, that a mentally ill person's reality is colored by their perception.

haka

I have been very very very depressed more than once before and suicidal.

I do not have any issue or conflict with this young mans views on suicide. Surely he deserves an opinion. If i was in his shoes i would feel the exact same way. He views are selfless and genuine.

Being susceptible to bouts of depression is a genetic pre-disposition and hopefully soon society will understand this .