Appointment of General Maxwell a turning point in Irish History

Trotter

From my reading lately about the the 1916 rising and War of Independence, I can't help but think of the influence Maxwell's appointment had on the course of Irish history.

Had another general been appointed who had forseen the turn in public opinion after the arrests of the rebels, and had stuck to life imprisonment as the punishment for them, would we have seen the War of Independence at all?

Its possible that the public would have remained against the actions of the rebels, Home Rule would have remained on the agenda until after WW1, and the shape of 1920's and 1930's Ireland would have been totally different.

Am I overestimating the influence of one man on our nations direction in the 20th Century?

JohnFalstaff

There is a good RTE doc from the Hidden History strand called The Man Who Lost Ireland which deals with the issue of Maxwell's legacy. It's available to view on YouTube.

Personally, I think that too much import can be attributed to the execution of the 1916 leaders in terms of its effect on the Irish public. The impact of the insurrection itself on the Irish psyche is also significant.

Although at this remove from the events it's very difficult to assess notions such as public opinion.

Kosseegan

The British army generals of that time were very much of the same mould. They were executing men for cowardice at the front. The Irish prisoners in England were better treated than those Englishmen who refused to fight when conscripted. In any event Maxwell was taking orders from London.
Part of the problem from the British point of view is that they dragged out the process for too long. They started holding trials and executing the rebels in ones and twos every few days. Had they shot a load of them without trial at the start and brazened it out, public opinion would have formed differently.

Trotter

Maybe they'd have executed Dev if they'd been too hasty!

gobnaitolunacy

Kosseegan wrote: »

The British army generals of that time were very much of the same mould. They were executing men for cowardice at the front. The Irish prisoners in England were better treated than those Englishmen who refused to fight when conscripted. In any event Maxwell was taking orders from London.
Part of the problem from the British point of view is that they dragged out the process for too long. They started holding trials and executing the rebels in ones and twos every few days. Had they shot a load of them without trial at the start and brazened it out, public opinion would have formed differently.

Don't think it would have gone any differently than it did. They committed treason as, what they saw them to be (like it or not) British subjects, during wartime. Shooting the lot without the semblance of a trial would have looked even worse to the public in Britain and in the States.

kabakuyu

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Don't think it would have gone any differently than it did. They committed treason as, what they saw them to be (like it or not) British subjects, during wartime. Shooting the lot without the semblance of a trial would have looked even worse to the public in Britain and in the States.

The British could have shot them without trial and then justified thier actions on their later well used and established modus operandi from the War of Independence "shot while trying to escape".

gobnaitolunacy

But they didn't. Bit of a difference in unsanctioned clandestine incidents in a boreen at night and putting down a rising in a major city. The latter seems to attract more international attention.

Kosseegan

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Don't think it would have gone any differently than it did. They committed treason as, what they saw them to be (like it or not) British subjects, during wartime. Shooting the lot without the semblance of a trial would have looked even worse to the public in Britain and in the States.

The trials were in fact illegal anyway. By dragging it out over a few weeks they allowed public opinion in the States to build up. Anti British propaganda was emanating from London and each execution provided more opportunities for disseminating propaganda.
Had there been a mass shooting immediately after the round up it would have been a one-off and would have been mixed up in the stories about the action.

kabakuyu

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

But they didn't. Bit of a difference in unsanctioned clandestine incidents in a boreen at night and putting down a rising in a major city. The latter seems to attract more international attention.

There were some unauthorised murders by the British,Bowen- Colthursts murder of Sheehy Skeffington,McIntyre,Dickson,O'Carroll,Coady(17 y/o boy)and others were unsanctioned and he was conviently found not guilty by reason of insanity,served less than 2 years(broadmoor) and lived to a ripe old age in Canada,the murders he committed were carried out on the streets of Dublin and in Portobello Barracks while the prisoners were in in military detention.