Sectarian attack in the UK

Bushbleacher

Hi guys,

I was on a night out in Edinburgh city center tonight with some friends. I went to enter a night club alone after my friends, and upon seeing a man standing beside a door into this club I asked him if he was a bouncer and if I could enter. He then asked if I was Irish, to which I replied yes, and then he told me I was not welcome. I questioned this, and then he asked if I wanted trouble. I replied 'no, I just want to go into the club', to which he responded 'you Irish are not welcome'. I asked if my refusal of entry was just down to my nationality, and was told yes. I left and went to an atm and returned 5mins later. I again tried to enter, and asked if my refusal was due to being Irish. I was told yes by the man beside the door. He was smoking, and attempted to stab me in the eye with his ciggarette, missing by about 2cm. I persisted questioning him, only for a friend of his to arrive and tell me to '**** off Irish'. The first man attempted to stab my eye with his ciggarette again, with both attempts leaving visible burn marks on my face, and his friend then punched me in the face twice. At this point I went to leave the street, and realised that the two men were not bouncers. The bouncers were about 25m away and stood at another door which entered into the club in question, and allowed me entry, but refused to deal with the attacker despite seeing the offence (which is fair enough, its not their job).

Basically I'm pretty damn pissed off about attacked just for being Irish, and would like to know what the best course of action is. Should I report to the police, or will anything even come of it? I live in Edinburgh atm, but will be moving back to Ireland in 2 weeks and don't know if there is any point reporting this. It may sound trivial, but tbh I would be nervous about going out in Scotland again after this incident and am worried about permanent scars as the cigarettes were pressed against my skin for long enough to properly burn. I'd like to take some action but is it worth the effort? I dont know if there was cctv in the location of the attack, but surely the scars are evidence enough?

numorouno

why is your first course of action to post on boards as opposed to going to the police?!

JonathanAnon

Would you not be better off going to the hospital to get the burns sorted?

Bushbleacher

numorouno wrote: »

why is your first course of action to post on boards as opposed to going to the police?!

Well I've had a few drinks myself and am thinking the police might ignore whatever I say because of this, but going in tomorrow sober they might pay me more attention. Basing this on my experience of the Gardaí at home.

misses with rifles

Report it these two are scum and it might help somone from bein attacked in the future
chances are they may be known to police and their should be cctv in the area

full_irish

numorouno wrote: »

why is your first course of action to post on boards as opposed to going to the police?!

because asking the opinion of people living in a different country for the correct course of action makes great sense obviously :rolleyes:

(Serious answer - living in Scotland for last 4 years and you seem to have come across a couple of arseholes... have never encountered sectarianism outside of the usual "Celtic or Rangers question" off drunk lads which you're a tad foolish if you answer to be honest.
Afraid to go out in Scotland again? A bit of an over-reaction to write off a country of roughly 4 million because of two arseholes.
CCTV - more than likely if its outside a club it will be covered, the city centres in general tend to be pretty well covered in Scotland)

Also how did you get them mixed up for bouncers?

Son Of A Vidic

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Sectarian attack in the UK

Assuming all this actually occurred, how can you label this incident as sectarian? The issue was your nationality and not your religion.

DEFTLEFTHAND

They'd no right to assault you. I remember Glasgow used to run a no colours policy, as in no Rangers or Celtic attire (Fcuk Queen's Park..:pac:)

I think you should follow this up and involve the police, you were treated very badly tonight.

Bushbleacher

full_irish wrote: »

because asking the opinion of people living in a different country for the correct course of action makes great sense obviously :rolleyes:

(Serious answer - living in Scotland for last 4 years and you seem to have come across a couple of arseholes... have never encountered sectarianism outside of the usual "Celtic or Rangers question" off drunk lads which you're a tad foolish if you answer to be honest.
Afraid to go out in Scotland again? A bit of an over-reaction to write off a country of roughly 4 million because of two arseholes.
CCTV - more than likely if its outside a club it will be covered, the city centres in general tend to be pretty well covered in Scotland)

Also how did you get them mixed up for bouncers?

Thought they were bouncers because they appeared to be guarding a back door to the club I wanted to go, my Scottish friends told me to head in that way, turns out the door they meant was 20m further up the street (Whistle Binkies in Edinburgh). I wouldnt say I'm afraid to go out here again, but I'd be a bit nervous about my accent if a group of Scottish guys tried to chat to me. I've been out here a few times before, but being a couple of cm from having your eye burnt out for no reason does leave you a bit nervous of what could have happened.

Bushbleacher

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Assuming all this actually occurred, how can you label this incident as sectarian? The issue was your nationality and not your religion.

Fair enough, not too sure of the correct terminology on this, the attack was based on my nationality the attackers did not mention religion although they did ask if I was from 'Southern Ireland'.

Strongbow10

a group of us had a very similar incident in Ediburgh OP, followed down the street by a group of lads (late 20's to mid 30s in age), shouting abuse upon hearing our accents etc...

We just put the heads down and kept walking minding our own business as we did not want any trouble, but it was a very unpleasant experience to say the least.

Saying that, you get biggots like that in alot of places, Edinburgh is a great city, don't let it get you down too much

full_irish

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Thought they were bouncers because they appeared to be guarding a back door to the club I wanted to go, my Scottish friends told me to head in that way, turns out the door they meant was 20m further up the street (Whistle Binkies in Edinburgh). I wouldnt say I'm afraid to go out here again, but I'd be a bit nervous about my accent if a group of Scottish guys tried to chat to me. I've been out here a few times before, but being a couple of cm from having your eye burnt out for no reason does leave you a bit nervous of what could have happened.

Ok, some advice for future reference... bouncers will always be displaying a 'hi-vis' armband with their bouncer security ID in it so you can spot them in the future.

kneemos

Sectarianism in Scotland?who'd have thought?

seven_eleven

Of course you should report it to the police, nothing magical is going to happen if you dont, i.e they will continue to do this.

Honestly, if that was me I would have just left immediately after being told the first time. Could have ended up nasty, and I'm not one to look for trouble but each to their own I guess.

Smidge

Found Glasgow natives very negative in response to Irish(southern)accent.
Never had any probs in Edinburgh though

tdv123

Where's the provo's when you need them hey?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Hi guys,

I was on a night out in Edinburgh city center tonight with some friends. I went to enter a night club alone after my friends, and upon seeing a man standing beside a door into this club I asked him if he was a bouncer and if I could enter. He then asked if I was Irish, to which I replied yes, and then he told me I was not welcome. I questioned this, and then he asked if I wanted trouble. I replied 'no, I just want to go into the club', to which he responded 'you Irish are not welcome'. I asked if my refusal of entry was just down to my nationality, and was told yes. I left and went to an atm and returned 5mins later. I again tried to enter, and asked if my refusal was due to being Irish. I was told yes by the man beside the door. He was smoking, and attempted to stab me in the eye with his ciggarette, missing by about 2cm. I persisted questioning him, only for a friend of his to arrive and tell me to '**** off Irish'. The first man attempted to stab my eye with his ciggarette again, with both attempts leaving visible burn marks on my face, and his friend then punched me in the face twice. At this point I went to leave the street, and realised that the two men were not bouncers. The bouncers were about 25m away and stood at another door which entered into the club in question, and allowed me entry, but refused to deal with the attacker despite seeing the offence (which is fair enough, its not their job).

Basically I'm pretty damn pissed off about attacked just for being Irish, and would like to know what the best course of action is. Should I report to the police, or will anything even come of it? I live in Edinburgh atm, but will be moving back to Ireland in 2 weeks and don't know if there is any point reporting this. It may sound trivial, but tbh I would be nervous about going out in Scotland again after this incident and am worried about permanent scars as the cigarettes were pressed against my skin for long enough to properly burn. I'd like to take some action but is it worth the effort? I dont know if there was cctv in the location of the attack, but surely the scars are evidence enough?

Surely Glasgow would hve been more beleiveable?

kneemos

seven_eleven wrote: »

Of course you should report it to the police, nothing magical is going to happen if you dont, i.e they will continue to do this.

Honestly, if that was me I would have just left immediately after being told the first time. Could have ended up nasty, and I'm not one to look for trouble but each to their own I guess.

Some bloke the op's never seen before sticks a cigerette in his face what are the police going to do?

Norwesterner

full_irish wrote: »

because asking the opinion of people living in a different country for the correct course of action makes great sense obviously :rolleyes:

(Serious answer - living in Scotland for last 4 years and you seem to have come across a couple of arseholes... have never encountered sectarianism outside of the usual "Celtic or Rangers question" off drunk lads which you're a tad foolish if you answer to be honest.
Afraid to go out in Scotland again? A bit of an over-reaction to write off a country of roughly 4 million because of two arseholes.
CCTV - more than likely if its outside a club it will be covered, the city centres in general tend to be pretty well covered in Scotland)

Also how did you get them mixed up for bouncers?

This is very close to blaming the victim here.

Iwas slashed with a razor blade in Glasgow in my first (and last visit there).
I'd been in the place less than only 24 hours.
The Scots guy (friend of mine) I was standing with was wearing a Celtic top.
No doubt, you'll say I shouldn't be standing with people wearing Celtic tops.

Richard Hillman

So you went up to a door and this big nasty looking guy said "Ye aint getting in laday" and you argued with him.

Do you know what smart people do? walk the **** away

Norwesterner

Richard Hillman wrote: »

So you went up to a door and this big nasty looking guy said "Ye aint getting in laday" and you argued with him.

Do you know what smart people do? walk the **** away

Another one blaming the victim.
Would you say that to a jew who was being subjected to anti-semitic insults?
"Just walk away....keep yer head down...shure it'll be grand."

Richard Hillman

Norwesterner wrote: »

Another one blaming the victim.
Would you say that to a jew who was being subjected to anti-semitic insults?
"Just walk away....keep yer head down...shure it'll be grand."

Why would you try and argue your way into a club where there is a guy at the door saying he doesn't want irish people in it.

Round your mates up and go to the next boozer, theres plenty of them in Edinburgh.

And yes, Just walk away, keep yer head down because its a damn lot safer than trying to all Rosa Parks over a pint

Galwayguy35

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why would you try and argue your way into a club where there is a guy at the door saying he doesn't want irish people in it.

Round your mates up and go to the next boozer, theres plenty of them in Edinburgh.

And yes, Just walk away, keep yer head down because its a damn lot safer than trying to all Rosa Parks over a pint

Because it's racist to stop someone going into somewhere just because some asshole doesn't like Irish people.

pablomakaveli

I've had scots take a dislike to me because I'm Irish as well. Glasgow ones tend to be the worst. That said I've also been to Dundee and met girls there who loved the fact I was Irish so must be mainly a Glasgow thing.

bohsboy

Have to say I found Edinburgh can be pretty hostile towards Irish. I've been a few times and certainly found with a few that we were not welcome.

I remember a particular incident, had about six hours to spare before a flight home and dying with a hangover, decided to get on a city tour bus. Anyway, in a trance and looking out the window, I saw this well dressed old man, with his sunday papers and dog on a lead walking up the road. Looked like a nice grandad sort of a guy. On seeing the tour bus he gives us the fingers and shouts "f**k off home".....

DEFTLEFTHAND

Big thick inbred potato munching Mick is the worst insult for an Irish person imo, an extreme expression of nastiness. It would be like calling an Italian a sun tanned guinea Wop. :pac:

Gummy Panda

Why do some Scots hate Irish people?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Why do some Scots hate Irish people?

They view them as peasants. Certain Scots behave in such a way, similar to the loyalists in NI. The Irish were hated by many different cultures across the world, for instance Irish racism in the press, Thomas Nast with the monkey and beer portrayal in NYC, Punch magazine with the ape in a tattered suit and pig.

Funk It

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I've had scots take a dislike to me because I'm Irish as well. Glasgow ones tend to be the worst. That said I've also been to Dundee and met girls there who loved the fact I was Irish so must be mainly a Glasgow thing.

Dundee is a great spot alright.

As much as it is a terrible story, I cannot understand why the OP kept returning and arguing when he wasn't even talking to the security. Drink can be a terrible thing, but surely there must have been signs that this situation was not quite right.

From the 3 years I spent in Scotland, I never had much trouble (thank god), but I generally kept away from Glasgow. Personally thought the Scots were a great bunch, but as like where some eejit might give an English person a bit of stick in Ireland, you can surely find an eejit (or couple of) in Scotland which will take a disliking to an Irish person. Its a sad fact, but I wouldn't let that put you off going out in Edinburgh, its a great city.

fryup

bohsboy wrote: »

Have to say I found Edinburgh can be pretty hostile towards Irish. I've been a few times and certainly found with a few that we were not welcome.

I remember a particular incident, had about six hours to spare before a flight home and dying with a hangover, decided to get on a city tour bus. Anyway, in a trance and looking out the window, I saw this well dressed old man, with his sunday papers and dog on a lead walking up the road. Looked like a nice grandad sort of a guy. On seeing the tour bus he gives us the fingers and shouts "f**k off home".....

but how did he know you were from ireland?? maybe he's just hostile towards tourists in general

doubleyoubee

It must have been Burns night.

doubleyoubee

It must have been Burns night.

KevR

"Sectarian attack in Scotland", not "the UK". I wouldn't label all of the UK with the same brush. I frequently visit England and to a lesser extent Wales. I've never received any hostility.

Merkin

Go into your local cop shop this morning and report it

Lapin

Bushbleacher wrote: »

At this point I went to leave the street, and realised that the two men were not bouncers. The bouncers were about 25m away.......

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Well I've had a few drinks myself........

That explains that then.

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Fair enough, not too sure of the correct terminology on this.......

So just throw in the word sectarian because it sounds good, even if you don't know what it means.

seven_eleven wrote: »

Of course you should report it to the police, nothing magical is going to happen if you dont.....

Nothing would happen if he did report it either. Magical or otherwise.

Another complaint by a drunk about being refused entry to a nightclub by bouncers who weren't bouncers at all.

Yep - The cops love that.

mike65

Maybe the OP would like to edit the thread title (double click it) with "Scottish Doorman Attacked Me and Boards.ie Needs to Know"

Lapin

mike65 wrote: »

Maybe the OP would like to edit the thread title (double click it) with "Scottish Doorman (who wasn't a doorman at all at all) Attacked Me and Boards.ie Needs to Know"

FYP

JJayoo

So OP was asking two men could he enter their house?

Sunnyisland

OP you just encountered two thuggish bullyboys in which you can encounter anywhere, next time be more aware of your surroundings.

bohsboy

fryup wrote: »

but how did he know you were from ireland?? maybe he's just hostile towards tourists in general

Apart from that hilarious old man, I just found conversations dried up with obvious distaste with some when they found out where I was from. Kip of a country too.

RaRaRasputin

I'm still wondering...why did you go to the atm and then back to the club, as if they'd magically let you in if you have more money in your pockets?

And, as was suggested here before, it's surely not the brightest idea to argue with two people when you are as drunk as them and on your own, about something that defies all logic.

They were behaving like assholes alright (and in the first place), but you weren't innocent in the situation escalating.

fryup

bohsboy wrote: »

Apart from that hilarious old man, I just found conversations dried up with obvious distaste with some when they found out where I was from. Kip of a country too.

no it isn't

The two fellas were nasty pieces of work OP and you were lucky the cigarette wasn't stubbed out in you eyeball. Why on earth did you go back for more insults?

That's like coming across a live, exposed, electrical wire and edging nearer and nearer until 'zzzzzzzzzzzzzz', you get too close!

Solair

You have to be careful in urban Scotland. There's serious sectarianism and just out & out xenophobia against anyone with an Irish or English accent.

There are very large numbers of attacks on English people too.

It's a nice country in many respects and most Scottish people are absolutely friendly and welcoming but it has a deep problem with this kind of thing. It's predominantly just low life thugs who do this but, they're fairly prominent in urban areas on nights out.

You'll find a lot of scots have a deep affinity with Ireland too. You're more likely to get on really well with most people.

The bigger cities (especially Glasgow) just have a bit if a dog rough element. Kinda like Dublin but with a bit of extra xenophobia added to the random violence.

You should probably pick a better nightclub !

Definitely report it to the police, it's quite likely illegal to refuse every on grounds of nationality and the police would definitely follow up the assault you're describing (as would the Gardai)

You have to actually make a complaint though to get the ball rolling.

SB2013

You did the right thing coming here op. We'll sort it out for you. Avengers Assemble!

razorblunt

Lived here almost 4 yrs an never had any hassle. Which club was this by the way, in and full you're better off not going in anyway.


Ah so it wasn't bouncers!!

Lapin

Solair wrote: »

Definitely report it to the police, it's quite likely illegal to refuse entry on grounds of nationality.....
You have to actually make a complaint though to get the ball rolling.

Eh

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Hi guys,

At this point I went to leave the street, and realised that the two men were not bouncers. The bouncers were about 25m away and stood at another door which entered into the club in question, and allowed me entry, but refused to deal with the attacker despite seeing the offence (which is fair enough, its not their job).

The police would probably tell him to fuk off.

And rightly so.

JupiterKid

Personally I've never had a problem in Scotland - Edinburgh is a beautiful city but then again I've tended to avoid Glasgow which is known for sectarianism and thuggery.

And oddly enough the worst anti-Irish sectarianism from a Scottish person I've ever encountered was from a drunk, dog rough Glaswegian woman in Holland of all places, and even then I was able to argue to her that she shouldn't diss what she didn't obviously have a clue about. A lot of this crap is borne out of ignorance IMO.

No offence OP but I have a feeling there's a bit more to this than you're telling us. You must have been pretty inebriated to have gone back to confront those scumbags repeatedly.

Report it to the cops.

Solair

Lapin wrote: »

Eh



The police would probably tell him to fuk off.

And rightly so.

Not if he were assaulted. That would get taken seriously.

If someone deliberately burnt me with a cigarette on the face, I'd be seeking prosecution for assault then sueing them for damages too.

greenflash

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Why do some Scots hate Irish people?

More to the point, why do some Irish believe in this fantasy Celtic unity shyte of Ireland, Scotland and Wales all being best mates?

crockholm

greenflash wrote: »

More to the point, why do some Irish believe in this fantasy Celtic unity shyte of Ireland, Scotland and Wales all being best mates?

Agreed, I would have a lot more time for the Englishman, then the Welshman.About 50% of the Scots I meet in Sweden are jazzholes. I frequent a pub in Stockholm and there is a group that meet to watch rugby that consists of 2 english,2 scots a saffa,.aussie a dub and a welshman.Anytime the Dub lad opens his mouth the 2 transvestites(jocks)belittle him on his accent, they are lowland scots, if that counts.