Sectarian attack in the UK

Lapin

Solair wrote: »

Not if he were assaulted. That would get taken seriously.

If someone deliberately burnt me with a cigarette on the face, I'd be seeking prosecution for assault then sueing them for damages too.

Yep.

Report that.

Catch the bastards.

Sue the bastards.

Spend a year waiting for the case to get to court.

Take a week off work to sit throught the courtcase.

Watch as their free legal aid lawyers convince the judge that you were hassling them by mistaking them for bouncers because you were to drunk to notice the door of the nightclub was 25 metres away.

Listen to them describe how you went away to an ATM machine only to return later looking for more trouble off two lads who were only minding their own business.

Observe how they explain that you continued to pester them about being refused to a nightclub they had nothing to do with.

Watch your lawyer try and convince the judge that although you were drunk, it is your word against that of two innocent bystanders who know nothing about cigarette scars.

Listen to laughter all around as your lawyer explains that you were thinking of taking a case against the nightclub too for being refused entry on the grounds of sectarianism even though you were let in.

Then give your legal team a fat cheque when the judge dismisses the case as not proven, and put it down to experience and a bad night out.

Solair wrote: »

Definitely report it to the police, it's quite likely illegal to refuse entry on grounds of nationality...

Good luck with that.

Solair

Lapin wrote: »

Yep.

Report that.

Catch the bastards.

Sue the bastards.

Spend a year waiting for the case to get to court.

Take a week off work to sit throught the courtcase.

Watch as their free legal aid lawyers convince the judge that you were hassling them by mistaking them for bouncers because you were to drunk to notice the door of the nightclub was 25 metres away.

Listen to them describe how you went away to an ATM machine only to return later looking for more trouble off two lads who were only minding their own business.

Observe how they explain that you continued to pester them about being refused to a nightclub they had nothing to do with.

Watch your lawyer try and convince the judge that although you were drunk, it is your word against that of two innocent bystanders who know nothing about cigarette scars.

Listen to laughter all around as your lawyer explains that you were thinking of taking a case against the nightclub too for being refused entry on the grounds of sectarianism even though you were let in.

Then give your legal team a fat cheque when the judge dismisses the case as not proven, and put it down to experience and a bad night out.



Good luck with that.

Yup and if we all just adopt a cynical attitude without even trying the scum will just overrun the place!

Sure why bother even reporting the odd stabbing?! Maybe even let the odd murder slip?

Bit of CCTV evidence handy, and the guy is in deep trouble.

Part of the problem in Ireland and Britian is people have completely lost faith in the justice system. It actually often does work, despite the assumptions.

Lapin

Solair wrote: »

Yup and if we all just adopt a cynical attitude without even trying the scum will just overrun the place!

Sure why bother even reporting the odd stabbing?! Maybe even let the odd murder slip?

Bit of CCTV evidence handy, and the guy is in deep trouble.

Part of the problem in Ireland and Britian is people have completely lost faith in the justice system. It actually often does work, despite the assumptions.

True.

So if the alledged assault was that serious, would you post on boards first to ask this question?

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Hi guys,

Should I report to the police, or will anything even come of it?

Don't you think the police would be the first port of call?

The OP obviously didn't think so as he said he carried on with his evening out and went the nightclub after his ordeal.

And then only posed the question of reporting it to the police on the internet afterwards.

Hardly what most people would do after an assault.

Solair wrote: »

You should probably pick a better nightclub !

Why?

The alledged assault had nothing to do with the nightclub.

SB2013

Lapin wrote: »

True.

So if the alledged assault was that serious, would you post on boards first to ask this question?



Don't you think the police would be the first port of call?

The OP obviously didn't think so as he said he carried on with his evening out and went the nightclub after his ordeal.

And then only posed the question of reporting it to the police on the internet afterwards.

Hardly what most people would do after an assault.




Why?

The alledged assault had nothing to do with the nightclub.

If the bouncers are happy enough to watch patrons being assaulted at the back entrance to the club then they you are probably at a **** hole.

Lapin

SB2013 wrote: »

If the bouncers are happy enough to watch patrons being assaulted at the back entrance to the club then they you are probably at a **** hole.

The OP wouldn't have been a patron at the time as the alledged assault took place 25 metres away from the entrance to the club before he got there. Chances are the doormen didn't even see the so called incident.

Yet was still happy enough to go in to the nightclub afterwards.

Raiser

I hope you make a full recovery, seek medical attention and minimize chances of those burns scarring.

You got a free lesson last night, don't incapacitate yourself mentally and physically through drink and then present yourself friendless as an easy target for Scum to play with.

- On another night the story would have ended very badly and someone else would have written it up for you and the local papers......

Truncheon Rouge

Why'd you go back.
If a bouncer (or perceived bouncer) tells me you're not coming in then ok whatever ... I'll take my money elsewhere. To return is futile (and below me).

Why people argue with the door I'll never know.
A bouncer is never going to say 'hmm you make a good point, perhaps I was wrong and judged too quick, Im sorry, allow me'.

dd972

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They view them as peasants. Certain Scots behave in such a way, similar to the loyalists in NI. The Irish were hated by many different cultures across the world, for instance Irish racism in the press, Thomas Nast with the monkey and beer portrayal in NYC, Punch magazine with the ape in a tattered suit and pig.

I'll explain first that's it's only an ignorant minority of Scots who think like this and even they are looked down upon as scum by other Scots, the funniest thing about it all is that there's McEwans guzzling, string vested retards with tatoos and yellowed teeth sat in their grotty Housing Scheme flats chomping on Fried Egg and Battered Mars Bar sandwiches who think THEY'RE the master race and we're scum ! :pac::pac::pac:

harry Bailey esq

JupiterKid wrote: »

Personally I've never had a problem in Scotland - Edinburgh is a beautiful city but then again I've tended to avoid Glasgow which is known for sectarianism and thuggery.

And oddly enough the worst anti-Irish sectarianism from a Scottish person I've ever encountered was from a drunk, dog rough Glaswegian woman in Holland of all places, and even then I was able to argue to her that she shouldn't diss what she didn't obviously have a clue about. A lot of this crap is borne out of ignorance IMO.

No offence OP but I have a feeling there's a bit more to this than you're telling us. You must have been pretty inebriated to have gone back to confront those scumbags repeatedly.

Report it to the cops.

i think i might also have encountered that woman.was she working the bar in a cheap hotel?

pragmatic1

Glasgow can be even more sectarian than the North in some respects. Even in the North there's a tiny bit of respect because both sides know what they've been through.

LordSutch

And just for the uniniatiated, I guess 'The North' means Northern Ireland as opposed to the North (of England) where the Geordies live )

Celly Smunt

It's amazing how shocked people get when they find out that in reality not everybody has a fraternal love for Irish people.

DEFTLEFTHAND

dd972 wrote: »

I'll explain first that's it's only an ignorant minority of Scots who think like this and even they are looked down upon as scum by other Scots, the funniest thing about it all is that there's McEwans guzzling, string vested retards with tatoos and yellowed teeth sat in their grotty Housing Scheme flats chomping on Fried Egg and Battered Mars Bar sandwiches who think THEY'RE the master race and we're scum ! :pac::pac::pac:

Yeah typical Scot, Irn- Bru drinking, haggis eating, heroin injecting racist jocks. The only country with a bigger inferiority complex than Ireland.:pac:

Norwesterner

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Why do some Scots hate Irish people?

Usual reasons.
We we're "takin' their jawbs" for over 150 years.
Particularly Irish immigrants from Donegal and Derry (which used to have daily ships to Scotland when times were bad)
Hatred is passed down from Father to Son.
A common chant in Scotland is...
"The Famine's over, f#ck off home."

At heart is Scottish Protestant hatred/fear of Irish Catholicism and some kind of takeover.

Mr_Spaceman

Norwesterner wrote: »

Usual reasons.
We we're "takin' their jawbs" for over 150 years.
Particularly Irish immigrants from Donegal and Derry (which used to have daily ships to Scotland when times were bad)
Hatred is passed down from Father to Son.
A common chant in Scotland is...
"The Famine's over, f#ck off home."

At heart is Scottish Protestant hatred/fear of Irish Catholicism and some kind of takeover.

Sorry to piss on your chips but between a quarter and a third of Irish immigration to Scotland in the late 19th-early 20th century was Protestant.

The reality is a lot more complex.

DarkJager

pmcmahon wrote:

It's amazing how shocked people get when they find out that in reality not everybody has a fraternal love for Irish people.

Sounds to me like the OP was minding his own business and simply trying to gain entry to a club. It has nothing to do with "fraternal love for Irish people". Lets say a Scottish tourist here got assaulted by some cretin because of their accent - would you simply brush it off as being down to not everyone having a love of the Scottish or the actions of a simple minded scumbag who should have been terminated at birth?

Norwesterner

DarkJager wrote: »

Sounds to me like the OP was minding his own business and simply trying to gain entry to a club. It has nothing to do with "fraternal love for Irish people". Lets say a Scottish tourist here got assaulted by some cretin because of their accent - would you simply brush it off as being down to not everyone having a love of the Scottish or the actions of a simple minded scumbag who should have been terminated at birth?

I think if the O.P was a foreigner who was attacked in Dublin, or a gay punched because of his sexuality, there's have been a lot more sympathy for him.
The gist of most of the posts was that he had it coming for not being a good Croppy, doffing the cap and walking away when racially insulted.

Your unfortunate OP, you met two morons. Dont let a bad experience with two of lifes losers get you down and then make false assumptions on the psyche of Scottish people.
Learn when to walk away and say 'fcuk this for a game of soldiers'.

Your lucky as like the majority of us you have two eyeballs but when they are gone im afraid they dont grow back so walk away and hold onto them a while longer.

I had bad experiences on nights out in small towns in Ireland but i would hate if genuine decent people from abroad were unlucky enough to bump into this dirt and assume that all Irish were like those wastages of space.

Scruffles

LordSutch wrote: »

And just for the uniniatiated, I guess 'The North' means Northern Ireland as opposed to the North (of England) where the Geordies live )

over here, 'the north' is very often formaly and unformaly used to define not only the furtherest north; like newcastle,but also the NW to and not far off the midlands/eg birmingham to.
'the south' is then used to describe every where else.
its weird shit.

Norwesterner

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Sorry to piss on your chips but between a quarter and a third of Irish immigration to Scotland in the late 19th-early 20th century was Protestant.

The reality is a lot more complex.

You haven't pissed on my chips.
The anti-Irish feeling in Scotland throughout the 1800's right up to modern days had a distinct religious element to it.
Likewise in America.
They were seen as Papists, superstitious, and not proper Christians
That can't be denied.
Religion was the main driving force behind the outbreaks of anti Irish hatred in the 18th and 19th century in both Britian and the U.S.

Wacker The Attacker

Bushbleacher wrote: »

Hi guys,

I was on a night out in Edinburgh city center tonight with some friends. I went to enter a night club alone after my friends, and upon seeing a man standing beside a door into this club I asked him if he was a bouncer and if I could enter. He then asked if I was Irish, to which I replied yes, and then he told me I was not welcome. I questioned this, and then he asked if I wanted trouble. I replied 'no, I just want to go into the club', to which he responded 'you Irish are not welcome'. I asked if my refusal of entry was just down to my nationality, and was told yes. I left and went to an atm and returned 5mins later. I again tried to enter, and asked if my refusal was due to being Irish. I was told yes by the man beside the door. He was smoking, and attempted to stab me in the eye with his ciggarette, missing by about 2cm. I persisted questioning him, only for a friend of his to arrive and tell me to '**** off Irish'. The first man attempted to stab my eye with his ciggarette again, with both attempts leaving visible burn marks on my face, and his friend then punched me in the face twice. At this point I went to leave the street, and realised that the two men were not bouncers. The bouncers were about 25m away and stood at another door which entered into the club in question, and allowed me entry, but refused to deal with the attacker despite seeing the offence (which is fair enough, its not their job).

Basically I'm pretty damn pissed off about attacked just for being Irish, and would like to know what the best course of action is. Should I report to the police, or will anything even come of it? I live in Edinburgh atm, but will be moving back to Ireland in 2 weeks and don't know if there is any point reporting this. It may sound trivial, but tbh I would be nervous about going out in Scotland again after this incident and am worried about permanent scars as the cigarettes were pressed against my skin for long enough to properly burn. I'd like to take some action but is it worth the effort? I dont know if there was cctv in the location of the attack, but surely the scars are evidence enough?

Any particular reason you didnt punch them back?

Secondly, why go back to someone who clearly wanted a fight?

For Forks Sake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LnVIo3Bwzs

Hilly Bill

Were you in a wheelchair by any chance ?

Was that the first time that you tried to get into a club? You dont ask anyone if they are bouncers and can you get in and argue when you are refused. Once you get told NO then you have no chance of getting in. The first rule of self defence is to avoid conflict and walk or runaway when possible.

FreshTendrils

Don't take it too personally OP, 'Irish' people have been in that place for 150+ years and they still haven't been accepted.It is unquestionably the most anti Irish country in the world and slowly but surely Irish people are starting to wise up and see beyond the veneer.

The only chance of me ever finding myself in Scotland is if my plane gets diverted there in an emergency en route to a country that i would actually want to visit.

As the tourism ad goes "Scotland might suprise you".From the numerous anecdotes i've heard from hopelessly naive Irish visitors,it certainly did and not in a good way.

If you were refused due to the colour of your skin, the reactions would be a whole lot different.

Your nationality? "Shure you'll be grand"

The King of Moo

I think I'm a bit evil because I find the idea of the OP asking two generic scumbags if they'd let him into a club down the road really funny!
Even though there is a little racism and sectarianism in Scotland (mostly in Glasgow and small places on the East coast), these two guys were probably just pricks who would've taken the piss out of anyone, of any nationality, in your situation. If you were French they would've said "No French, pish off!!"

FreshTendrils wrote: »

Don't take it too personally OP, 'Irish' people have been in that place for 150+ years and they still haven't been accepted.It is unquestionably the most anti Irish country in the world and slowly but surely Irish people are starting to wise up and see beyond the veneer.

The only chance of me ever finding myself in Scotland is if my plane gets diverted there in an emergency en route to a country that i would actually want to visit.

As the tourism ad goes "Scotland might suprise you".From the numerous anecdotes i've heard from hopelessly naive Irish visitors,it certainly did and not in a good way.

Nonsense. Of course there's anti-Irish sentiment among some knuckle-draggers there, but they're a small minority. I lived there for a year and never encountered any negativity because of my accent. Quite the opposite in fact.

It's telling that you've never been there and are basing your opinion on anecdotes.

jim_beam

pmcmahon wrote: »

It's amazing how shocked people get when they find out that in reality not everybody has a fraternal love for Irish people.

bit of a difference between being indifferent to the people of this small island ( ive no problem with that ) and having a deep seated irrational dislike towards a nation and its people

a lot of people in this country dont seem to realise it but outside certain parts of northern ireland , nowhere on earth will you find more ill feeling towards irish people ( specifically catholic irish ) than in scotland and its not just limited to glasgow as appears to be the recieved wisdom , i had a middle managment boss from the borders while working down under over a decade ago , the level of unconditional hatred from this person was a sight to behold , the viscious bilge which flowed from their caustic tongue was truly frightening

some try and explain the phenomenon of anti catholicism in scotland back to the time of mass immigration to scotland over a century ago but this simply doesnt wash , many other places in the uk ( let alone the rest of the world ) experienced inflows of poor irish people yet the issue of sectarianism was in the happeny place compared to scotland , NO!, the reason for anti catholicism in scotland is down to the particular protestant denomination which the vast majority of scots follow or at least are nominally alligned with

anti catholicism is the cornerstone of presbyterianism and most protestants in scotland belong to this denomination , most protestants in england are anglican and most welsh are methodist , this indoctrination inevitabley trickles down to every aspect of a countries political and social infrastructure

scotland is a beautifull place to look at it but like the evil king in braveheart said , the trouble is its " full of scots "

Solair

pmcmahon wrote: »

It's amazing how shocked people get when they find out that in reality not everybody has a fraternal love for Irish people.

The English can't understand why they're not loved up there either :

From the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9737918/Record-number-of-racist-attacks-on-English-in-Scotland.html

somefeen

Having lived in Scotland for long enough now, if you encounter this ****, just say "why would I care what YOU think of the Irish?" and go the other way.
Its rare but I have experienced it.

jim_beam

somefeen wrote: »

Having lived in Scotland for long enough now, if you encounter this ****, just say "why would I care what YOU think of the Irish?" and go the other way.
Its rare but I have experienced it.

that most people have is evidence enough that its a real phenomenon in that country , ive never experienced it from any other nationality , ive been on the other end of banter from a few nationalitys but thats wholey different and perfectly cool

FreshTendrils

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's telling that you've never been there and are basing your opinion on anecdotes.

And personal experience.

6541

Have to agree, Stayed in Western Scotland the local Loyalists attacked our hotel, it was so bad we could not leave the hotel. Not safe at all. Irish people need to wise up when it comes to Scotland.

Nodin

....good to see we're all avoiding stereotyping.

jim_beam

btw , im not anti british , ive always gotten on great with english and welsh people , i especially love the north of england , cumbria is one of my favourite places in the world

jim_beam

Nodin wrote: »

....good to see we're all avoiding stereotyping.

are you ever off , your like a live version of lisa simpson :rolleyes:

dd972

Solair wrote: »

The English can't understand why they're not loved up there either :

Some Scots dislike of the English is like some of the English's dislike of the French, one side's preoccupied with it and the other couldn't care less.

true

I have always found the Scottish very nice people. Quite tolerant considering a million poor Irish people immigrated to Glasgow, set up their own ghettoes and football club, raised the flag of a foreign country and regularly chanted IRA songs. One of them cjoked once that at least when Pakistanis immigrate to London they do not form their own soccer club and fly the Pakistani flag and chant Al Quaida songs ! Great banter. Apart from that no Scottish person ever said anything to me and was always sound enough.

summerskin

OP should try being an Englishman wanting a pint in parts of Dublin, Limerick or Miltown Malbay. I've had trouble in all three of those just for having ordered My pint with an English accent.

jim_beam

true wrote: »

I have always found the Scottish very nice people. Quite tolerant considering a million poor Irish people immigrated to Glasgow, set up their own ghettoes and football club, raised the flag of a foreign country and regularly chanted IRA songs. One of them cjoked once that at least when Pakistanis immigrate to London they do not form their own soccer club and fly the Pakistani flag and chant Al Quaida songs ! Great banter. Apart from that no Scottish person ever said anything to me and was always sound enough.

the irish who emmigrated to scotland around the time of the famine and up to the begining of the twentieth century were ( at the time ) simply moving to another part of their own country

somefeen

true wrote: »

I have always found the Scottish very nice people. Quite tolerant considering a million poor Irish people immigrated to Glasgow, set up their own ghettoes and football club, raised the flag of a foreign country and regularly chanted IRA songs. One of them cjoked once that at least when Pakistanis immigrate to London they do not form their own soccer club and fly the Pakistani flag and chant Al Quaida songs ! Great banter. Apart from that no Scottish person ever said anything to me and was always sound enough.

And Irish people are quite tolerant considering all the land grabbing, the destruction of native culture etc etc.
Both those things are in the past and shouldn't be relevant to how you view anyone in this day and age.

FreshTendrils

true wrote: »

I have always found the Scottish very nice people. Quite tolerant considering a million poor Irish people immigrated to Glasgow, set up their own ghettoes and football club, raised the flag of a foreign country and regularly chanted IRA songs. One of them cjoked once that at least when Pakistanis immigrate to London they do not form their own soccer club and fly the Pakistani flag and chant Al Quaida songs ! Great banter. Apart from that no Scottish person ever said anything to me and was always sound enough.

Can they really afford to complain?
There are a million of them in the northeastern portion of Ireland doing the same thing.

Before there was a Celtic,tricolor or even an IRA there was extreme hostility to Irish people.

somefeen

jim_beam wrote: »

that most people have is evidence enough that its a real phenomenon in that country , ive never experienced it from any other nationality , ive been on the other end of banter from a few nationalitys but thats wholey different and perfectly cool

Not really unique to be honest. You'll hear the same thing from English scumbags and Welsh scumbags.

BarryLyndon

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

FreshTendrils

summerskin wrote: »

OP should try being an Englishman wanting a pint in parts of Dublin, Limerick or Miltown Malbay. I've had trouble in all three of those just for having ordered My pint with an English accent.

That's regrettable but when it comes to England and her neighbors it works both ways.
However,there is a great hostility between the Irish and the Scots but the Irish are completely oblivious to it.

jim_beam

somefeen wrote: »

Not really unique to be honest. You'll hear the same thing from English scumbags and Welsh scumbags.

not close to the same level , anti catholicsm has been an acknowledged issue in scotland for over a century and continues to be a topic of discussion , the same cannot be said about england and wales , sectarianism in scotland exists at all levels

are you aware that the vast majority of catholics in scotland are opposed to scottish independance , why ? , because they know that in an independant scotland , they would be a lot more vulnerable to prejudice without london to protect their rights

Duckworth_Luas

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor.

I always found that an odd quote as Scotland wasn't colonised by the English.

true

FreshTendrils wrote: »

There are a million of them in the northeastern portion of Ireland doing the same thing..

They are (as they see it ) loyal to the government democratically elected where they live, and the same government which gives them services, dole, etc and to which they pay their (direct and indirect) taxes. Big difference.

FreshTendrils wrote: »

Before there was a Celtic,tricolor or even an IRA there was extreme hostility to Irish people.

I do not know about"extreme hostility" - if that was the case why would a million choose to go there?

Respect is earned.

Pug160

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

Scotland in general does have a certain bleakness about it. Still a nice country overall though, and Edinburgh definitely looks to be worth a visit.

somefeen

jim_beam wrote: »

not close to the same level , anti catholicsm has been an acknowledged issue in scotland for over a century and continues to be a topic of discussion , the same cannot be said about england and wales , sectarianism in scotland exists at all levels

are you aware that the vast majority of catholics in scotland are opposed to scottish independance , why ? , because they know that in an independant scotland , they would be a lot more vulnerable to prejudice without london to protect their rights

You are correct. It is a bigger issue in Scotland than anywhere else I can think of. You'll only hear if from scumbags in other countries, but in Scotland its from people who should know better.

jim_beam

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

oh FFS , scotland might be poor ( er ) than west london or england in general but its still in western europe and still richer than the vast majority of countries in the world , scots have a pessimistic and dour mindset , if they were living in sunny beverly hills , they would be the same , just like they are in the scotland of the south pacific , new zealand , why do you think kiwis so dour compared to aussies , their mostly of scottish ancestry