Toilets for non paying customers.

wylam

Hi guys, sorry the title is wrong,{ Toilets for customer use only }

Can anyone out there clarify this for me please.
A man walked up to the door where i work and asked could he use the toilet, there were 3 sign's behind me, 1 on my left and 1 on my right that stated, (toilets are for customer use only)When i informed him that the management do not allow non customer to use the toilets he told me that it was against the law for me to refuse him.He said that it states in the irish constitution that no man,woman or child can be refused the use of a toilet. He said anyone has the right to walk up to the door of your house and "demand" the use of your toilet facilities.

He proceeded to say that it is not illegal for women to urinate in public but it is for a man and if you decide to drop your shorts and take a dump in the street any gardai that see you must remove their coat and shield you from the view of the public.So can any one shed any light on what is the letter of the law regarding the constitution on these statements? or was it just waffle to blag his way into the premises.

ABajaninCork

I think it's waffle. The premises are private, so whatever the owner says goes. Using the loo is entirely at the owner's discretion. But IANAL!!

the_syco

wylam wrote: »

A man walked up to the door where i work and asked could he use the toilet, there were 3 sign's behind me, 1 on my left and 1 on my right that stated, (toilets are for customer use only)When i informed him that the management do not allow non customer to use the toilets he told me that it was against the law for me to refuse him.He said that it states in the irish constitution that no man,woman or child can be refused the use of a toilet. He said anyone has the right to walk up to the door of your house and "demand" the use of your toilet facilities.

Sounds like freeman bullsh|t, otherwise every thief would be using it to gain access to peoples houses!

EyeSight

i think its any premises serving food or drink must provide toilets, for their customers.

The other stuff about doing your business in public sounds like one of those "crazy 16th century laws" that may still be around but are never enforced

ABajaninCork

EyeSight wrote: »

i think its any premises serving food or drink must provide toilets, for their customers.

The other stuff about doing your business in public sounds like one of those "crazy 16th century laws" that may still be around but are never enforced

True. But the OP was asking whether it was the law that non-paying people are allowed to walk in off the street and use the facilities.

Personally, I think the answer's no. It's another urban myth doing the rounds...

Stark

wylam wrote: »

He said that it states in the irish constitution that no man,woman or child can be refused the use of a toilet.

Eh no it doesn't.

.red.

Did you let him in or not? In my opinion you should have told him to pi$$ off

wylam

Yeah did sound like a load of waffle to me , but i heard him out just to see what he had to say on the matter and he then said go to Liam Russel's books and you can get a copy of the constitution there for 2 euro "go educate yourself" he said lol.

@.red. No i didn't leave him in , i just kept asking him question after question to try and trip him up to see if it was bull or not. when he got sick of this he left shaking his head and said if he gets caught urinating in the street that he is sending the gardai to speak to me. rofl.

micdug

wylam wrote: »

Yeah did sound like a load of waffle to me , but i heard him out just to see what he had to say on the matter and he then said go to Liam Russel's books and you can get a copy of the constitution there for 2 euro "go educate yourself" he said lol.

@.red. No i didn't leave him in , i just kept asking him question after question to try and trip him up to see if it was bull or not. when he got sick of this he left shaking his head and said if he gets caught urinating in the street that he is sending the gardai to speak to me. rofl.

You should have suggested to him he carry a copy of the Constitution to show the uneducated such as yourself the constitutional provision to crap in any toilet in the state. I mean, if he said he was caught short and desperate I might think about it (and not caught short to shoot up by the way) but he sounds like a common or garden nutter.

wylam

On the contrary micdug, he was well dressed and spoke like an educated man and seemed like he truly believed what he was saying was correct. I think he was walking past and saw the sign's behind me and then decided "im gonna educate this man in the constitution " because if he had just walked up to the door i would have had no reason to stop him from entering.

KCAccidental

he is wrong, simple as! there does seem to be a stench of freemen bullcrap off of his excuses.

finnharpsboy

my usual response to anyone asking for use of the facilities is to produce a bucket and say work away

minidazzler

There is definitely nothing in the constitution about this.

There could be a Cork City Bye Law though, as I do remember reading something somewhere about it.

There is certainly no national law, as this article would have mentioned it. http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-public-toilets-626631-Oct2012/

cantdecide

I think toilets being for customer use only is something that doesn't need to be overstated the way it sounds it is where you work. IMO this rule is something that should be used with discretion. If the sign doesn't deter someone and they ask anyway, I don't see what the big deal is if someone is caught short...

minidazzler

cantdecide wrote: »

I think toilets being for customer use only is something that doesn't need to be overstated the way it sounds it is where you work. IMO this rule is something that should be used with discretion. If the sign doesn't deter someone and they ask anyway, I don't see what the big deal is if someone is caught short...

Mostly it's because if you refuse someone and they can think up a reason that it was discriminatory then you'll be up in court at very least.

Specifically junkies on disability for their "medical" condition.

wylam

@cantdecide, I work as a doorman on a respectable establishment , we usually start around 8pm which is when this rule is really enforced.I do use some discretion with this rule depending on the time of the night, but as i said above if this guy just walked up to the door and said nothing i would have let him in.But soon as he asked could he just use the toilet i had to refuse him.We have been subject to impromptu inspections by the owners to see if we are doing our jobs properly.So we have to do everything by the book.

EyeSight

ABajaninCork wrote: »

True. But the OP was asking whether it was the law that non-paying people are allowed to walk in off the street and use the facilities.

Personally, I think the answer's no. It's another urban myth doing the rounds...

i know. thats why i used the words "customers". i think the OP was right, i was saying what the actual law was

Tails142

If you read this - http://www.thejournal.ie/public-toilets-dublin-755462-Jan2013/ - you will see that it mentions among other things that Dublin City Council are trying to get an initiative going where local businesses make their toilets available as public conveniences on a voluntarily basis.

What does this mean? Well at present businesses do not have to let anyone use their toilets under any national law. I believe that where food is served toilets must be provided to customers but whether this is a byelaw, act or even just a HSE requirement on the basis of food safety I don't know.

The guy telling you he had a constitutional right to use your toilet was flat out wrong, which is normally the case when someone uses the words 'I have a constitutional right' as if its supposed to leave you quaking in your boots and cowering in fear.

dangerus06

this is mad he should have just walked on ,but i going tom to the garda station and go to the loo see if they cover me with their coat :P

starch4ser

wylam wrote: »

Hi guys, sorry the title is wrong,{ Toilets for customer use only }

Can anyone out there clarify this for me please.
A man walked up to the door where i work and asked could he use the toilet, there were 3 sign's behind me, 1 on my left and 1 on my right that stated, (toilets are for customer use only)When i informed him that the management do not allow non customer to use the toilets he told me that it was against the law for me to refuse him.He said that it states in the irish constitution that no man,woman or child can be refused the use of a toilet. He said anyone has the right to walk up to the door of your house and "demand" the use of your toilet facilities.

He proceeded to say that it is not illegal for women to urinate in public but it is for a man and if you decide to drop your shorts and take a dump in the street any gardai that see you must remove their coat and shield you from the view of the public.So can any one shed any light on what is the letter of the law regarding the constitution on these statements? or was it just waffle to blag his way into the premises.

Hi,

This is all true. It also states in section 9, clause 1 of the constitution, that "if the said person is cross eyed or has a "mullet" style haircut, the owner of the dwelling or licensed establishment is permitted to give them a kick in the bollocks"

Section 43 of the constitution (which concerns the established roles and duties of an garda siochana) does indeed state that a member of the guards is bound by Irish law to not only shield you from the public but also provide you his/her cap so that you can use it as a potty.

Amirani

starch4ser wrote: »

Section 43 of the constitution (which concerns the established roles and duties of an garda siochana) does indeed state that a member of the guards is bound by Irish law to not only shield you from the public but also provide you his/her cap so that you can use it as a potty.

Of course it does :rolleyes:

"Article 43

1. 1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.

2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.

2. 1° The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice.

2° The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good. "

sok2005

Leave the man use the loo! In all fairness, was it really worth the hassle. I'm almost 100% positive no anarchy will befall the streets of Cork if a non paying customer uses that fair throne.

Balmed Out

gimmick wrote: »

What establishment is this? OP, if it was you who refused him, you are nothing more than a pathetic jobsworth. We have all been caught short at one stage or another in life.

I hope it happens you sometime.

Very harsh. When refused instead of saying please its an emergency or buying something he spouted a load of bull.
You dont know the type of business either or how many staff they have to go cleaning the toilet.

gimmick

Harsh perhaps, but from OPs tone, he was quite happy to not let him in.

I have worked in many pubs in my time. Soem posh, others not so. If a fella came in asking to use the toilet, the answer was always ok, without a second thought.

Solair

Stark wrote: »

Eh no it doesn't.

Article 40.4.7½

No citizen shall be deprived of access to a restaurant or café toilet, save in
accordance with law.

:P

It's next to the section on not leaving the toilet seat up and how restaurants should not charge for the supply of ketchup on pain of imprisonment.

OP: You've no more obligation to provide random members of the public with access to the toilets, than you have an obligation to provide them with free coffee.

cantdecide

gimmick wrote: »

We have been subject to impromptu inspections by the owners to see if we are doing our jobs properly.So we have to do everything by the book.

I'd have let him in anyway. Who in their right mind would fire you for letting someone use the loo on it's own?

Balmed Out

gimmick wrote: »

Harsh perhaps, but from OPs tone, he was quite happy to not let him in.

I have worked in many pubs in my time. Soem posh, others not so. If a fella came in asking to use the toilet, the answer was always ok, without a second thought.

Its different in a pub, most of them have more then one toilet and enough staff to clean regularly, small cafe's, dentists, leisure centres etc I would expect them to have a policy of no non customers using the toilet.

Solair

Most people tend to be fairly reasonable about it in Ireland.

Worst I ever came across was in Amsterdam. I spent about €6.00 in a cafe/bar and the waitress wouldn't let me use the loo because I was only getting a takeaway coffee + cake and wasn't sitting down.

So I insisted on returning the cake and getting refund.

the beer revolu

OP was dead right in not letting him in. Imagine the poor sod who would have to clean up if he divested himself of all the bullsh1t he was clearly full of in one go!

cantdecide

the beer revolu wrote: »

OP was dead right in not letting him in. Imagine the poor sod who would have to clean up if he divested himself of all the bullsh1t he was clearly full of in one go!

That was serendipitous. If he had approached me he would have been left use the loo and there would be no hostilities and no thread...

astronut

.red. wrote: »

you should have told him to pi$$ off

How ironic...