Tonight With Vincent Browne Thread v3.0 (07/04/13 - 08/07/14)

tayto lover

hotmail.com wrote: »

I think if you look closely at the detailed evidence, it points to the fact that the IRA got a tip off about the movements of the two RUC men.

It does say that but there is again no proof.
Seems to me it's similar to all the other Tribunals i.e. nothing conclusive which to me is a waste of time. They could easily be totally wrong in that.
I think they just had to justify the expense.

hotmail.com

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Maybe for a little bit of balance, Vinnie might do a show next week about the rampant collusion between the RUC and loyalist paramilitaries.

The Gardai are our police force, so it's appropriate that the media here devotes attention to the story rather than covering it up like in the past.

coolhull

Nigella Bites, Nigella Sniffs

Seamo87

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Sinn Fein went from five TDs to fourteen in the last election. They're on the complete opposite trajectory to the two parties you mentioned.

They are in opposition now, and weren't gaining anymore before all this stuff blew up!!! They stagnated at what, 18%? You think they can gain more on the back of this?:rolleyes:

They were going places upto 2 years ago, but haven't built on that, and don't think that quotes from the past 2 weeks won't be dug up in run ups to local and national elections over the next 2-3 years!!

hotmail.com

tayto lover wrote: »

It does say that but there is again no proof.
Seems to me it's similar to all the other Tribunals i.e. nothing conclusive which to me is a waste of time. They could easily be totally wrong in that.
I think they just had to justify the expense.

No definitive evidence no..more circumstantial.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's lots of rogue Gardai. There was then and there probably is now.

Busted Flat.

hotmail.com wrote: »

No definitive evidence no..more circumstantial.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's lots of rogue Gardai. There was then and there probably is now.

Donegal, they haven't gone away you know. The guys that knew about it went up the lines.

Seamo87

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Gardai are our police force, so it's appropriate that the media here devotes attention to the story rather than covering it up like the past.

Thank you! It's amazing how stupid people can be in trying to dismiss this. Why talk about another countries police force when our own has it's own problems.

On this logic maybe Sinn Feinn would like to provide ideas how to stimulate the Greek economy, considering they can't come up with decent one's for our own!:rolleyes:

tayto lover

hotmail.com wrote: »

No definitive evidence no..more circumstantial.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's lots of rogue Gardai. There was then and there probably is now.

Maybe but surely with such expense the matter could have been properly investigated.
I actually asked a garda who lives near me about this today. He told me he was based in Dundalk at the time but nobody ever asked him if he knew anything about the incident or noticed anything suspicious. He said none of the men he worked with were ever interviewed. Some investigation and some Tribunal if they didn't even question the workers in Dundalk station.

take everything

Shinnerbots texting in like crazy tonight.

Lenin Skynard

Seamo87 wrote: »

They are in opposition now, and weren't gaining anymore before all this stuff blew up!!! They stagnated at what, 18%? You think they can gain more on the back of this?:rolleyes:

They were going places upto 2 years ago, but haven't built on that, and don't think that quotes from the past 2 weeks won't be dug up in run ups to local and national elections over the next 2-3 years!!

So suddenly people will learn in shock and horror that Sinn Fein are linked to the IRA and the IRA killed people in the north? Sorry to disappoint you but the people that voted for them already knew that. Their presence has grown hugely in the last couple of years, it's undeniable.

Make silly emoticons all you like but your comparison to the PDs and the Greens was nothing short of absurd. I think Labour are the party you're looking for in that regard.

Callan57

tayto lover wrote: »

That's the bit i don't get at all.
They had three named garda officers. All were cleared.
Yet Smithwicks said that it was probably a garda mole who tipped off the I.R.A.
That seems lazy and unsubstantiated to me. After 8 years and 12 million euro that's all they could come up with. A probability.
If the laws of probability were relied on there would be no bookies anywhere.

The whole Tribunal stinks in my opinion.
It just provided an income for solicitors and a retired judge.

I agree ... most rational people in the Dundalk area would probably have reached the same conclusion on the basis of probability without any need to spend 12million. The Gardaí are a cross section of society and in "general" society there were plenty of people willing to provide info to the IRA and plenty of bar-stool patriots too - the IRA could not have gone on so long without that soft support.
I'm sure the RUC, British Intelligence & our own Gardaí did their best to plant moles in the IRA so why would it be such a big surprise that the IRA would also try that tactic?
That said I think Gerry Adams made a total ass of himself today - not the usual slick performance. IMO SF will get nowhere until Adams has shuffled off the political stage.

Busted Flat.

Vinny says he lived in the North at the start of the troubles, did he live in Bombay St. or some of the nationalist areas, like fook he did, he was like Kevin myArse in the Europa hotel or some other place of safety.

Callan57

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Vinny says he lived in the North at the start of the troubles, did he live in Bombay St. or some of the nationalist areas, like fook he did, he was like Kevin myArse in the Europa hotel or some other place of safety.

Europa wasn't exactly the safest place

hotmail.com

Callan57 wrote: »

I agree ... most rational people in the Dundalk area would probably have reached the same conclusion on the basis of probability without any need to spend 12million. The Gardaí are a cross section of society and in "general" society there were plenty of people willing to provide info to the IRA and plenty of bar-stool patriots too - the IRA could not have gone on so long without that soft support.
I'm sure the RUC, British Intelligence & our own Gardaí did their best to plant moles in the IRA so why would it be such a big surprise that the IRA would also try that tactic?
That said I think Gerry Adams made a total ass of himself today - not the usual slick performance. IMO SF will get nowhere until Adams has shuffled off the political stage.

Everybody knew that the British army fired first on Bloody Sunday and shot unarmed civilians. It took a report to confirm it.

You can't really wipe it under the carpet and say "ah sure we all know what happened". It has to be investigated properly and independently.

Busted Flat.

Callan57 wrote: »

Europa wasn't exactly the safest place

That was later on when the so called reporters headed back to Dublin when things got rough, they were safer at their desks in Dublin. In present day we have courageous reporters correspondent's like the late Marie Colvin, and others who go to the front line to get their stories to their costs. Here the courages reporters get their stories from the TV or internet. No Risk.

Harry Angstrom

hotmail.com wrote: »

You can't really wipe it under the carpet and say "ah sure we all know what happened". It has to be investigated properly and independently.

It's a shame they didn't do the same thing with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

coolhull

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Vinny says he lived in the North at the start of the troubles, did he live in Bombay St. or some of the nationalist areas, like fook he did, he was like Kevin myArse in the Europa hotel or some other place of safety.

The most bombed business premises in Europe during the seventies...

Hannibal

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Gardai are our police force, so it's appropriate that the media here devotes attention to the story rather than covering it up like in the past.

So maybe he should do a program about Garda collusion with loyalist paramilitaries but of course this wouldn't be a republican bashing exercise. There was one such instance in 1994 when the Garda Special Branch magically disappeared from outside a SF event which was 500 metres from one of the main Garda stations in Dublin and on cue the UVF then attempt to blow up a pub full of people and slip in and out of Dublin unnoticed. Bear in mind that the Special Branch never stopped surveilance on any republican function at that time.

hotmail.com

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's a shame they didn't do the same thing with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

I'm not arguing against that.

Callan57

hotmail.com wrote: »

Everybody knew that the British army fired first on Bloody Sunday and shot unarmed civilians. It took a report to confirm it.

You can't really wipe it under the carpet and say "ah sure we all know what happened". It has to be investigated properly and independently.

I'm not .. I'm simply saying that we did not need to spend 12 million to be told "on the balance of probabilities" what most reasonably intelligent people would have concluded years ago. I just don't see what we get for our 12 million that we did not have already. Surely given the situation, and the dirty war that was going on, it was hardly rocket science to deduce that the IRA would attempt to infiltrate the Gardaí & that they were highly lightly to succeed in that objective.

BTW "wipe it under the carpet" sounds like another Bertieism

hotmail.com

Callan57 wrote: »

I'm not .. I'm simply saying that we did not need to spend 12 million to be told "on the balance of probabilities" what most reasonably intelligent people would have concluded years ago. I just don't see what we get for our 12 million that we did not have already. Surely given the situation, and the dirty war that was going on, it was hardly rocket science to deduce that the IRA would attempt to infiltrate the Gardaí & that they were highly lightly to succeed in that objective.

BTW "wipe it under the carpet" sounds like another Bertieism

Well some are calling it a sop to the Unionists - for once a report that shows the Republic in a bad light. Whatever the motive behind it all, the idea of collusion and thereby corruption within the Gardai is a serious matter.

I meant sweep it under the carpet!

Galwayguy35

Gerry put his foot in it with his comments and Padraig as well earlier on, although he was spot on with his comment that the RUC was a sectarian police force, but of course nobody else on the panel would admit this.

Busted Flat.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Gerry put his foot in it with his comments and Padraig as well earlier on, although he was spot on with his comment that the RUC was a sectarian police force, but of course nobody else on the panel would admit this.

The best thing that ever happened for the truth is Google, and Wikipedia, how many kids that are to young to remember what happened in those turbulent years. Click they did to the sites, they know who the liars are, and who the real terrorists were.

Busted Flat.

As a closing comment, Vinny did himself a lot of damage to himself tonight.

Galwayguy35

It wasn't by chance the 2 of them were killed, when one of them was shown in photos after the SAS killings at Loughgall it put them on the IRAs radar.

delaad

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's a shame they didn't do the same thing with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

And when Trichet threatened Noonan with a "bomb going off in Dublin" if Noonan attempted to burn the bondholders, may he have been expecting another cave-in like the one that followed the original bombings?

Well if he wasn't, he must have been tickled pink at how quick the hands were raised in surrender.

delaad

coolhull wrote: »

The most bombed business premises in Europe during the seventies...

Yea, but it was never flattened.

donfers

Busted Flat. wrote: »

As a closing comment, Vinny did himself a lot of damage to himself tonight.

What did he say?

coolhull

donfers wrote: »

What did he say?

He wouldn't let the Shinner get away with blustering and trying to get off the hook

Seamo87

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

So suddenly people will learn in shock and horror that Sinn Fein are linked to the IRA and the IRA killed people in the north? Sorry to disappoint you but the people that voted for them already knew that. Their presence has grown hugely in the last couple of years, it's undeniable.

Make silly emoticons all you like but your comparison to the PDs and the Greens was nothing short of absurd. I think Labour are the party you're looking for in that regard.

Old Sinn Feinn, as in Adams and McGunniess were those whom people linked to IRA and terrorist activities, not your man on with VB last night or Pierce or May lou. Those 3 along with others were meant to be a "new" Sinn Feinn without blood on their hands, but alas this past few days has shown them to be no better then those who have gone before.

And funny isn't it how you choose not to address the issue of child abuse that I mentioned in my post? Don't have a defence to that one? Because voters are going to be slow to forget about it, and even if a few were to forget, they'll soon be reminded whenever an issue of child safety/wellbeing emerges again.

Your clutching at straws if you think Sinn Feinn aren't in serious trouble. Fianna Fail are going to make a comeback whether we like it or not. And when even more light is shone upon Sinn Feinn's economic policies, their going to have little to stand on aside from ideologies of a united Ireland.

Get with the times, Ireland is United as far as the majority of people are concerned. Once there is peace nobody in the real world gives a crap about any of the other trivial stuff.;)