Tonight With Vincent Browne Thread v3.0 (07/04/13 - 08/07/14)

Femme_Fatale

Dunno whether Shane Clancy was diagnosed as a psychopath, and terms like nutcase are not fair on people who have severe mental illnesses.
But I agree it seems straw-clutching to blame his entire actions on his medication, which he seemingly took an excessive dose of rather than the prescribed dose.
The psychiatrist pinning the blame on the drug also gave some very flimsy and contradictory explanations. It's understandable that Shane's mother would be biased in this regard - it's easy to look at things objectively, but nobody is going to have any idea of the hell she's living through (and yes I know, Nuala Creane is also obviously, but that doesn't change a thing about what Shane's mother is going through).

Patricia Casey's (I'm not her biggest fan) outlook was far more solid.
This is just me reiterating something I've heard anecdotally, but isn't it the case sometimes with anti-depressants that when a person starts taking them, initially they feel dreadful because they are being taken from a state of numbness to a state of despair, but will ultimately start to feel better?

I'm familiar with Citalopram at a family level (albeit a tiny dosage) and it helped the people in question become much better. It's true that this kind of scaremongering re anti depressant meds is dangerous.

I don't doubt that the late Shane Clancy was unwell and lost control and may have seemed like a very nice chap before that awful event, but he was still responsible for his actions.

Roger_007

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Dunno whether Shane Clancy was diagnosed as a psychopath, and terms like nutcase are not fair on people who have severe mental illnesses.
But I agree it seems straw-clutching to blame his entire actions on his medication, which he seemingly took an excessive dose of rather than the prescribed dose.
The psychiatrist pinning the blame on the drug also gave some very flimsy and contradictory explanations. It's understandable that Shane's mother would be biased in this regard - it's easy to look at things objectively, but nobody is going to have any idea of the hell she's living through (and yes I know, Nuala Creane is also obviously, but that doesn't change a thing about what Shane's mother is going through).

Patricia Casey's (I'm not her biggest fan) outlook was far more solid.
This is just me reiterating something I've heard anecdotally, but isn't it the case sometimes with anti-depressants that when a person starts taking them, initially they feel dreadful because they are being taken from a state of numbness to a state of despair, but will ultimately start to feel better?

If that murder had happened in Finglas or Tallaght, there would be no documentary or even mention of it now!

hotmail.com

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Dunno whether Shane Clancy was diagnosed as a psychopath, and terms like nutcase are not fair on people who have severe mental illnesses.
But I agree it seems straw-clutching to blame his entire actions on his medication, which he seemingly took an excessive dose of rather than the prescribed dose.
The psychiatrist pinning the blame on the drug also gave some very flimsy and contradictory explanations. It's understandable that Shane's mother would be biased in this regard - it's easy to look at things objectively, but nobody is going to have any idea of the hell she's living through (and yes I know, Nuala Creane is also obviously, but that doesn't change a thing about what Shane's mother is going through).

Patricia Casey's (I'm not her biggest fan) outlook was far more solid.
This is just me reiterating something I've heard anecdotally, but isn't it the case sometimes with anti-depressants that when a person starts taking them, initially they feel dreadful because they are being taken from a state of numbness to a state of despair, but will ultimately start to feel better?

I'm familiar with Citalopram at a family level (albeit a tiny dosage) and it helped the people in question become much better. It's true that this kind of scaremongering re anti depressant meds is dangerous.

I don't see it as scaremongering. I think it's fair enough to have a debate on the drugs given to people with mental illness.

Harry Angstrom

Roger_007 wrote: »

If that murder had happened in Finglas or Tallaght, there would be no documentary or even mention of it now!

Spot on!

Femme_Fatale

Roger_007 wrote: »

If that murder had happened in Finglas or Tallaght, there would be no documentary or even mention of it now!

I don't disagree, unfortunately.

Femme_Fatale

hotmail.com wrote: »

I don't see it as scaremongering. I think it's fair enough to have a debate on the drugs given to people with mental illness.

Of course! They are not for everyone and should only be a last resort IMO. But "It was all because of the drug" is not debate.

hotmail.com

Vinnie only dying to tear into Frank Flannery!

hotmail.com

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Of course! They are not for everyone and should only be a last resort IMO. But "It was all because of the drug" is not debate.

Well that was their opinion.

take everything

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Dunno whether Shane Clancy was diagnosed as a psychopath, and terms like nutcase are not fair on people who have severe mental illnesses.
But I agree it seems straw-clutching to blame his entire actions on his medication, which he seemingly took an excessive dose of rather than the prescribed dose.
The psychiatrist pinning the blame on the drug also gave some very flimsy and contradictory explanations. It's understandable that Shane's mother would be biased in this regard - it's easy to look at things objectively, but nobody is going to have any idea of the hell she's living through (and yes I know, Nuala Creane is also obviously, but that doesn't change a thing about what Shane's mother is going through).

Patricia Casey's (I'm not her biggest fan) outlook was far more solid.
This is just me reiterating something I've heard anecdotally, but isn't it the case sometimes with anti-depressants that when a person starts taking them, initially they feel dreadful because they are being taken from a state of numbness to a state of despair, but will ultimately start to feel better?

I'm familiar with Citalopram at a family level (albeit a tiny dosage) and it helped the people in question become much better. It's true that this kind of scaremongering re anti depressant meds is dangerous.

Good post. Not sure about the bit in bold.
Basically, for the first couple of weeks after starting an SSRI, there may be an increase in anxiety which subsides after this.
Paroxetine (used in teenagers especially IIRC)is the one SSRI i'd have any remote concerns about.
Citalopram is an SSRI widely used with very little concern.

Harry Angstrom

hotmail.com wrote: »

I don't see it as scaremongering. I think it's fair enough to have a debate on the drugs given to people with mental illness.

Cop on to yourself. Shane took his whole month's supply in one go. If I took a whole month's supply of something as innocuous as paracetamol it would do enormous damage. Did you watch that documentary at all, or did you just come on here tonight with your usual ill-informed knee-jerk reaction?

Femme_Fatale

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well that was their opinion.

Hmmm... it seemed like more than just an opinion; they were putting it out there as fact. As Nuala Creane said, it was largely assumption. Even the psychiatrist Prof Healy gave a really vague outlook - something about delirium and an anxiety yet numbness.
I know he's the expert and I'm not, but I just found that to be a load of incoherent blather tbh.

take everything

Hotmail, Grey so what, Harry...
Get a room. :pac:

hotmail.com

coolhull wrote: »

Hotmail, what's with the huge chip on your shoulder? I read this thread every night, and straight away I recognise your posts without having to see who the poster is. Your posts always lead off with a tirade against other posters with whose opinions you disagree.
That's not debate,
This is a thread for people who want to express their opinions in a straigtforward and grown-up manner.
Play the ball, not the man......

Some people just don't like what I say. I never play the man/woman.

Harry's post mentioned the words "nutcase" and "idiot" and I find it strange that this isn't the post that concerns people.

grey_so_what

take everything wrote: »

Hotmail, Grey so what, Harry...
Get a room. :pac:

:eek:

:pac::pac::pac:

Is that all??

Roger_007

take everything wrote: »

Hotmail, Grey so what, Harry...
Get a room. :pac:

A threesome eh:cool:

take everything

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Hmmm... it seemed like more than just an opinion; they were putting it out there as fact. As Nuala Creane said, it was largely assumption. Even the psychiatrist Prof Healy gave a really vague outlook - something about delirium and an anxiety yet numbness.
I know he's the expert and I'm not, but I just found that to be a load of incoherent blather tbh.

That stuff about delirium is nonsense, looking at the footage.
Delirium means acute confusional state (ie disoriented ie out of it wrt time and/or place).
Don't want to get dragged into commenting on this (families have suffered enough) but there seemed to be a hell of a lot of control/intent involved (judging by the footage/reports).

grey_so_what

Roger_007 wrote: »

A threesome eh:cool:

Gotta love Boards!!......:D:D:D

Harry Angstrom

hotmail.com wrote: »

Some people just don't like what I say. I never play the man/woman.

Harry's post mentioned the words "nutcase" and "idiot" and I find it strange that this isn't the post that concerns people.

I stand by what I said. He was an idiot for taking his monthly supply of medication in one go, and he was a nutcase for buying a set of knives in Dunnes Stores, and subsequently using them for stabbing another man to death, for trying to kill the murdered man's girlfriend and his brother, and then for committing suicide on himself with the knife. I'd love to know your defintion of a rational human being.........

Femme_Fatale

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Shane took his whole month's supply in one go.

Yeh it's just bizarre to blame the drug on the basis of someone taking an overdose of it. Of course an overdose of any drug is going to be dangerous, but that doesn't make the correct dosage dangerous.
It's like saying paracetamol is dangerous because people have overdosed on it...

These drugs have loud warnings on them not to exceed the dosage, even by one pill (e.g. if you forget to take your tablet, don't take two tablets next time; just carry on as if you took the one you missed).

grey_so_what

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh it's just bizarre to blame the drug on the basis of someone taking an overdose of it. Of course an overdose of any drug is going to be dangerous, but that doesn't make the correct dosage dangerous.
It's like saying paracetamol is dangerous because people have overdosed on it...

I think that is what the Mam has to realise FF.......

How sad is it to realise that your son did that...

Nothing will bring her son back.

hotmail.com

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I stand by what I said. He was an idiot for taking his monthly supply of medication in one go, and he was a nutcase for buying a set of knives in Dunnes Stores, and subsequently using them for stabbing another man to death, for trying to kill the murdered man's girlfriend and his brother, and then for committing suicide on himself with the knife. I'd love to know your defintion of a rational human being.........

I was complaining about your abusive language and the viciousness of your post.You are entitled to your opinion like everybody else, but let's keep rational about it.

take everything

Is Fiach Kelly now with the Irish Times?

BaZmO*

Charge your iphone Vinny!

grey_so_what

hotmail.com wrote: »

I was complaining about your abusive language and the viciousness of your post.You are entitled to your opinion like everybody else, but let's keep rational about it.

:eek::eek::eek:

Stop the lights......

Was that a white flag???.......

:P

hotmail.com

No more births should take place in that hospital until the situation there is properly investigated.

coolhull

hotmail.com wrote: »

Some people just don't like what I say. I never play the man/woman.

Harry's post mentioned the words "nutcase" and "idiot" and I find it strange that this isn't the post that concerns people.

Actually I disagree with Harry about the ''parents should be ashamed of themselves'' issue. I was about to reply to his post but you got in first with your rather unpleasant reply, so I didn't bother
But I can disagree with someone without resorting to abuse.
Chill out, man.

grey_so_what

hotmail.com wrote: »

No more births should take place in that hospital until the situation there is properly investigated.

I wouldn't put a foot near the gate.

take everything

Jesus Christ.
Mind-boggling.
What is wrong with people.

hotmail.com

coolhull wrote: »

Actually I disagree with Harry about the ''parents should be ashamed of themselves'' issue. I was about to reply to his post but you got in first with your rather unpleasant reply, so I didn't bother
But I can disagree with someone without resorting to abuse.
Chill out, man.

I am sorry, but what abuse?

Harry Angstrom

hotmail.com wrote: »

I was complaining about your abusive language and the viciousness of your post.You are entitled to your opinion like everybody else, but let's keep rational about it.

I'll tell you what's rational. What's rational would be that Shane took his pill once a day, and not taking all of them in one go. That would be rational, and what's completely irrational is his mother blaming his actions on his overdose of antidepressants. That's rational, and irrational, if you feel like having a debate about it.....