Cyclists on a Backroad

shuffles88 · 02-10-2013 1:05pm

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

April O Neill · 02-10-2013 1:09pm

El Inho wrote: »

I can't be the only person whose head is absolutely melted by the sheer quantity of people in clothes which are far too tight, with tortoises on their head taking up the roads of Ireland on their bikes...

I have nothing against cycling. Its a fantastic form of transport, but these people are taking up room, and are an accident waiting to happen. When cycling for fitness instead of practicality can you not please bring your bikes to a main road where there is space?

Main roads down the country are terrifying to cycle on.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 1:10pm

the "off-road" cycle paths tend to be covered in the rubbish I mentioned earlier as well as plenty of these.....

April O Neill · 02-10-2013 1:12pm

El Inho wrote: »

the roads were developed for motorists...and there is no such thing as a bike tax..so cyclists are free loaders in the roads in my view.

Which causes more damage to roads, cars or bikes?

Hence motor tax.

The roads weren't just developed for cars, and cars damage them much more.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 1:19pm

April O Neill wrote: »

Which causes more damage to roads, cars or bikes?

Hence motor tax.

The roads weren't just developed for cars, and cars damage them much more.

Motoring must be the stupidest activity we let ourselves do.

I have a car or two - I pay tax on them. I work and pay tax on my income - then I take what's left of my income and use some of that to put diesel in my car(s), giving the government another 50% of my money.......money that they've already taxed once!

As a cyclist I may freeload when I'm on the bike, but at least every kilometre I do on the bike doesn't send more of my hard earned cash into the seemingly bottomless pit of government spending........

humbert · 02-10-2013 1:20pm

shuffles88 wrote: »

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

Cycle lanes on footpaths often make junctions a nightmare.

maniac2000 · 02-10-2013 1:30pm

El Inho wrote: »

the roads were developed for motorists...and there is no such thing as a bike tax..so cyclists are free loaders in the roads in my view.

also cyclists who dont use the cycle lanes grind my gears too...

its all fun and games lads, but at the end of the day no matter what happens, you clip a stupid cyclist and no matter whose fault it is its the driver. its nonsense.

"the roads were developed for motorists" where in this world does it say this explicitly? A road is a road and anyone can use it cyclist/moped/motorbike/car! Cyclists are entitled to use the road as much as the next user. As far as im aware (it was in another thread on here but can't find it) cyclists are not always required to use bike lanes where provided they are provided for convenience to the cyclist. Most bike lanes are covered in glass and etc and where the cycle lane is off road generally you get random walkers and joggers in your path so this removes the possibility of using the cycle lane safely! Im a cyclist(who obeys traffic rules etc)and I drive so I see this from both sides. If I come across a cyclist I do what everyone else should do and wait until the road is clear to overtake. What else can you do. When a tractor is in your way it's the same procedure. Cyclists don't mean to cause delays (well most of them) but I notice when cycling a lot of the time a car could easily overtake me safely leaving enough room for the oncoming traffic to pass bye but instead they think they are overtaking a bus and delay the people behind!

Grandpa Hassan · 02-10-2013 1:32pm

shuffles88 wrote: »

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

Oh, I don't use those. They're bl**dy death traps. Pedestrians are oblivious to them. And they are a nightmare when you come to junctions as they generally just force you into the road.

I use the road instead. You don't know when a pedestrian is going to wander into them when you have some speed up. Or indeed just walk in them anyway, oblivious to the fact that they are a cycle lane. I'd rather cycle in the road than risk hitting a mum with a buggy when I'm cycling at 25kph+.

Mint Sauce · 02-10-2013 1:33pm

shedweller wrote: »

Its painful enough in fairness. Lots of them go two abreast as well. That limits overtaking opportunities.

Perfectly within the law. This also forces drivers to actually overtake rather than trying to squeze between the cyclist and centre line.

Maximus Alexander · 02-10-2013 1:36pm

El Inho wrote: »

Well I do not object to cyclists using the road. By cyclists I mean people who do no drive, and this is their form of transport to get from a to b. But there are hundreds if not thousands of enthusiasts who are taking over the roads and making them notably more dangerous.

Automobiles have far more right to the road as we are the ones who pay the taxes for the upkeep (however crap it is) of said roads. All I'm saying is, it wouldn't kill the sports cyclists to move to a ring road or road with large shoulders, while keeping on the back roads unfortunately could kill them.

This is rubbish, tax doesn't work like this in Ireland. Anyone who pays income tax in Ireland pays for the upkeep of the roads. You pay motor tax for your car (and so do I for that matter), not road tax, and it is not specifically earmarked for spending on land transport infrastructure.

Everyone has an equal right to use the roads, you're not special. If you want to drive, drive. But do so respecting other road users, whatever mode of transport they might be using. Plan ahead, leave enough time for your journey and you won't be so frustrated and irrational.

Mint Sauce · 02-10-2013 1:37pm

shuffles88 wrote: »

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

These ones are nearly even worse. Usally ending every few hundred yard to allow for junctions/driveways, or in the case of cyclists using the footpath, is because of people walking on the cycle path area.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 1:39pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

These ones are nearly even worse. Usally ending every few hundred yard to allow for junctions/driveways, or in the case of cyclists using the footpath, is because of people walking on the cycle path area.

......ah come on, it's not that bad.....

oh, wait.....

gobnaitolunacy · 02-10-2013 1:54pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Perfectly within the law. This also forces drivers to actually overtake rather than trying to squeze between the cyclist and centre line.

That may be so, but I drop back to single file, just out of courtesy.

hardCopy · 02-10-2013 1:58pm

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

That may be so, but I drop back to single file, just out of courtesy.

What some consider a courtesy can also be seen as an invitation to overtake dangerously.

Jester252 · 02-10-2013 2:03pm

RLJ are the worse. I got run over by one just as I was about to finish crossing the road at a green man who was also on the wrong side of the road. He seem to think it was my fault regardless of the opinion of other people at the junction.

gobnaitolunacy · 02-10-2013 2:04pm

hardCopy wrote: »

What some consider a courtesy can also be seen as an invitation to overtake dangerously.

Oh? So am I supposed to have a fuming motorist up my tail for however many miles I deem appropriate?

humbert · 02-10-2013 2:07pm

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Oh? So am I supposed to have a fuming motorist up my tail for however many miles I deem appropriate?

You're supposed to have a calm mature motorist waiting patiently until it's safe to pass without getting their knickers in a twist.

Maximus Alexander · 02-10-2013 2:07pm

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Oh? So am I supposed to have a fuming motorist up my tail for however many miles I deem appropriate?

I think he was suggesting that you should have a fuming motorist up your tail for however many miles it takes to arrive at a place where it is safe to overtake, rather than anything to do with what you deem appropriate.

Not taking sides, but what's the point in misrepresenting what someone has said in a discussion?

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:08pm

I do agree that they have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else but when im driving in my car, I dont drive in the middle of the road...just because I can! I stay on the left because they are the rules of the road. The rules of the road for cyclists are if there is a cycle lane....you stay in it. If not, you stay as left as you can do the road (check the RSA website!)! Motorists get clamped if we park in a cycle lane because we are obstructing that lane. But cyclists who travel in their groups of 100's dont get fined/clamped even though they are blocking our lane!!

Grandpa Hassan · 02-10-2013 2:16pm

Ashbx wrote: »

I do agree that they have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else but when im driving in my car, I dont drive in the middle of the road...just because I can! I stay on the left because they are the rules of the road. The rules of the road for cyclists are if there is a cycle lane....you stay in it. If not, you stay as left as you can do the road (check the RSA website!)! Motorists get clamped if we park in a cycle lane because we are obstructing that lane. But cyclists who travel in their groups of 100's dont get fined/clamped even though they are blocking our lane!!

That is not true. Legislation requiring cyclists to use cycle lanes where provided was repealed

If the cycle lane is not fit for purpose (in my opinion), I'll use the road

tomselleck101 · 02-10-2013 2:18pm

El Inho wrote: »

the roads were developed for motorists...and there is no such thing as a bike tax..so cyclists are free loaders in the roads in my view.

Car's damage the road, hence road tax is for the upkeep of the road

NS77 · 02-10-2013 2:19pm

Ashbx wrote: »

But cyclists who travel in their groups of 100's dont get fined/clamped even though they are blocking our lane!!

Therein lies the problem - it's not your lane. It's for all road users. We share the roads.

humbert · 02-10-2013 2:19pm

Ashbx wrote: »

I do agree that they have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else but when im driving in my car, I dont drive in the middle of the road...just because I can! I stay on the left because they are the rules of the road. The rules of the road for cyclists are if there is a cycle lane....you stay in it. If not, you stay as left as you can do the road (check the RSA website!)! Motorists get clamped if we park in a cycle lane because we are obstructing that lane. But cyclists who travel in their groups of 100's dont get fined/clamped even though they are blocking our lane!!

Cyclists don't have to use the cycle lane.
The road traffic laws don't dictate that cyclists should stay as left as you can.
It's not "your" lane.
The road traffic laws do dictate that you cannot drive in the middle of the road.
Yes, you can get clamped but very very rarely do.

Maximus Alexander · 02-10-2013 2:22pm

Ashbx wrote: »

I do agree that they have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else but when im driving in my car, I dont drive in the middle of the road...just because I can! I stay on the left because they are the rules of the road. The rules of the road for cyclists are if there is a cycle lane....you stay in it. If not, you stay as left as you can do the road (check the RSA website!)! Motorists get clamped if we park in a cycle lane because we are obstructing that lane. But cyclists who travel in their groups of 100's dont get fined/clamped even though they are blocking our lane!!

This post sums up all of the problems on the road. The fact that people can have a license to drive a motor vehicle whilst having this bad an attitude, and this poor an understanding of the rules of the road, is bewildering.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 2:29pm

Ashbx wrote: »

I do agree that they have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else but when im driving in my car, I dont drive in the middle of the road...just because I can! I stay on the left because they are the rules of the road. The rules of the road for cyclists are if there is a cycle lane....you stay in it. If not, you stay as left as you can do the road (check the RSA website!)! Motorists get clamped if we park in a cycle lane because we are obstructing that lane. But cyclists who travel in their groups of 100's dont get fined/clamped even though they are blocking our lane!!

Rules of the Road are fairly worthless - it's the legislation that defines rights, responsibilities and duties. The RotR are an interpretation - and a very car-centric interpretation - of road traffic law.

Legally, they carry as much weight as this.....

Sean Kelly’s Guide to cycling

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:31pm

humbert wrote: »

Cyclists don't have to use the cycle lane.
The road traffic laws don't dictate that cyclists should stay as left as you can.
It's not "your" lane.
The road traffic laws do dictate that you cannot drive in the middle of the road.
Yes, you can get clamped but very very rarely do.

Ok, just checked the website again and my mistake you dont have to cycle on the cycle lane but the RSA DOES say you have to stay as far to the left as you can. But in all fairness, if there is a cycle lane there, and you chose not to use it, then of course that is your decision but you cant give out to drivers for badly overtaking you etc. The bike lanes are put on roads that are tight or awkward for drivers and cyclists alike....in which case, its probably not a good idea you veer off them anyway!

I have no problem with cyclists to be honest. They only thing that bothers me is when they travel 2 or 3 to a breast. I live in Dublin city so when they do that, its VERY hard to overtake and I dont want to beep them incase I knock them off. So im left patiently waiting until they decide to finish their conversation and move over for the cars. Im in no way under the impression that cars "own" the road but the difference is, we have a car around us to protect us. Whereas cyclists dont seem to care that they have pretty much ZERO protection. And like another poster said above, if anything happens, the onus is on the driver.

I just want to point out that I am a cyclist aswell and cycle to my pilates class twice a week...but im smart about it and do use the cycle lanes!!!!

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:35pm

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

This post sums up all of the problems on the road. The fact that people can have a license to drive a motor vehicle whilst having this bad an attitude, and this poor an understanding of the rules of the road, is bewildering.

My "attitude" is your opinion but what "poor" understanding do I have exactly? I did my theory test and my driving test and passed first time. Plus my mam is a driving instructor so I can assure you she was on my back a lot when I was learning to drive so I think im pretty good thank you very much. And I have been driving for over 10 years and have not had one accident.....not even a scratch on ANY of the cars ive owned.

So what driving tests do cyclists take? Oh yeah...none!!!

07Lapierre · 02-10-2013 2:35pm

Ashbx wrote: »

Ok, just checked the website again and my mistake you dont have to cycle on the cycle lane but the RSA DOES say you have to stay as far to the left as you can. But in all fairness, if there is a cycle lane there, and you chose not to use it, then of course that is your decision but you cant give out to drivers for badly overtaking you etc. The bike lanes are put on roads that are tight or awkward for drivers and cyclists alike....in which case, its probably not a good idea you veer off them anyway!

I have no problem with cyclists to be honest. They only thing that bothers me is when they travel 2 or 3 to a breast. I live in Dublin city so when they do that, its VERY hard to overtake and I dont want to beep them incase I knock them off. So im left patiently waiting until they decide to finish their conversation and move over for the cars. Im in no way under the impression that cars "own" the road but the difference is, we have a car around us to protect us. Whereas cyclists dont seem to care that they have pretty much ZERO protection. And like another poster said above, if anything happens, the onus is on the driver.

I just want to point out that I am a cyclist aswell and cycle to my pilates class twice a week...but im smart about it and do use the cycle lanes!!!!

As I cyclist I agree with you (up to a point). Cycling two abreast on an Urban street is inconsiderate and I would normally move behind/ahead of my cycling companion if i felt we were blocking traffic and If i felt it was safe to do so.

However, on a rural road, when cycling two abreast in a group of riders, moving into single file is not that simple and can be dangerous.

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:39pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

That is not true. Legislation requiring cyclists to use cycle lanes where provided was repealed

If the cycle lane is not fit for purpose (in my opinion), I'll use the road

Oh agree completely re: the bad lanes! But as I said in another post, if any crash happens then, the onus should then be on the cyclist because they were the one who went out of their lane.

Have you every cycled through Ranelagh...ridiculous! Car's are parked all over the cycle lanes! I dont know how they get away with it!

caustic 1 · 02-10-2013 2:40pm

Take a chill pill 30 or 60 seconds to pass bikes is all that's needed is what I am hearing from this thread. However, that is that person on that bike, down the road another bit, there are more, more and yes more. I have driven on the roads for a living and in the last few years it had become an epidemic, and it is not like passing a car, cyclists are more vulnerable they do not have the protection of a car around them, and often on back roads there is not often safe places to pass as they are more narrow so you are behind them for longer distances. Not so nice if you are drive for a living and have a deadline to meet.

Grandpa Hassan · 02-10-2013 2:42pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

As I cyclist I agree with you (up to a point). Cycling two abreast on an Urban street is inconsiderate and I would normally move behind/ahead of my cycling companion if i felt we were blocking traffic and If i felt it was safe to do so.

However, on a rural road, when cycling two abreast in a group of riders, moving into single file is not that simple and can be dangerous.

Pretty much what I do. I'd cycle single file in an urban environment and am quite conscious of holding up traffic behind me (that is in the rare circumstances that the traffic is moving faster than me. If only the cars and buses would get out of my way in the 80% of time that I am travelling faster than them!!)

If I am alone on a country road, I will generally ride far out from the side so that a car can't speed up behind me and squeeze me into the hedge. Because, believe me, you give a motorist on a country lane any opportunity to squeeze you off the road in an attempt to get by, they will take it. If I am riding two abreast, the person on the inside will generally be a lot closer to the edge of the road, so I actually don't think there is all that much difference between the space taken if I am on my own compared to if there are two of us.

humbert · 02-10-2013 2:42pm

Ashbx wrote: »

Ok, just checked the website again and my mistake you dont have to cycle on the cycle lane but the RSA DOES say you have to stay as far to the left as you can. But in all fairness, if there is a cycle lane there, and you chose not to use it, then of course that is your decision but you cant give out to drivers for badly overtaking you etc. The bike lanes are put on roads that are tight or awkward for drivers and cyclists alike....in which case, its probably not a good idea you veer off them anyway!

I have no problem with cyclists to be honest. They only thing that bothers me is when they travel 2 or 3 to a breast. I live in Dublin city so when they do that, its VERY hard to overtake and I dont want to beep them incase I knock them off. So im left patiently waiting until they decide to finish their conversation and move over for the cars. Im in no way under the impression that cars "own" the road but the difference is, we have a car around us to protect us. Whereas cyclists dont seem to care that they have pretty much ZERO protection. And like another poster said above, if anything happens, the onus is on the driver.

I just want to point out that I am a cyclist aswell and cycle to my pilates class twice a week...but im smart about it and do use the cycle lanes!!!!

As Jawgap says the rules of the road are only guidelines but I'd still be very interested to see where it says that cyclists have to stay as far to the left as they can.

Yes, yes I can absolutely complain where drivers overtake dangerously even if there's a cycle lane in the vicinity. That you could possibly think otherwise is just bewildering.

I think you do have a problem with cyclists. At least I hope you do or else I fear you might be a tad unhinged. Cyclists are entitled to cycle 2 abreast and 3 abreast when passing. You wont knock anyone down by beeping, that's not how horns work.

Where does it say that the onus is on the driver, and what onus? Cyclists know they are vulnerable which is why they avoid dangerous cycle lanes and cycle two abreast to prevent dangerous overtaking.

tin79 · 02-10-2013 2:43pm

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

This post sums up all of the problems on the road. The fact that people can have a license to drive a motor vehicle whilst having this bad an attitude, and this poor an understanding of the rules of the road, is bewildering.

The fact that cyclists can go out and cycle like idiots without even needing a licence is also bewildering.

strobe · 02-10-2013 2:44pm

Jesus... 57 pages of this... you kidding me?

Look the cyclists pick a gladiator and the motorists pick a gladiator and then the winner of that fight gets to keep the roads, like in the good old days.

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:45pm

humbert wrote: »

As Jawgap says the rules of the road are only guidelines but I'd still be very interested to see where it says that cyclists have to stay as far to the left as they can.

Yes, yes I can absolutely complain where drivers overtake dangerously even if there's a cycle lane in the vicinity. That you could possibly think otherwise is just bewildering.

I think you do have a problem with cyclists. At least I hope you do or else I fear you might be a tad unhinged. Cyclists are entitled to cycle 2 abreast and 3 abreast when passing. You wont knock anyone down by beeping, that's not how horns work.

Where does it say that the onus is on the driver, and what onus? Cyclists know they are vulnerable which is why they avoid dangerous cycle lanes and cycle two abreast to prevent dangerous overtaking.

Im not looking for an argument so im not going to reply to you anymore.

As requested....http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Pedestrians-and-Cyclists/Cycling-safety/

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:46pm

strobe wrote: »

Jesus... 57 pages of this... you kidding me?

Look the cyclists pick a gladiator and the motorists pick a gladiator and then the winner of that fight gets to keep the roads, like in the good old days.

hardCopy · 02-10-2013 2:47pm

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Oh? So am I supposed to have a fuming motorist up my tail for however many miles I deem appropriate?

If a driver can't safely pass two cyclists then they probably couldn't safely pass a single cyclist. To pass a single cyclists safely you need to cross the centre of the road, many motorists don't realise this, cycling two abreast prevents them trying to squeeze past i the same line with traffic in the opposite lane.

Ashbx wrote: »

Ok, just checked the website again and my mistake you dont have to cycle on the cycle lane but the RSA DOES say you have to stay as far to the left as you can. But in all fairness, if there is a cycle lane there, and you chose not to use it, then of course that is your decision but you cant give out to drivers for badly overtaking you etc. The bike lanes are put on roads that are tight or awkward for drivers and cyclists alike....in which case, its probably not a good idea you veer off them anyway!

Dangerous driving is dangerous driving. The fact that two cyclists are cycling legally side by side does not give you carte blanche to pass dangerously.

Ashbx wrote: »

I have no problem with cyclists to be honest. They only thing that bothers me is when they travel 2 or 3 to a breast. I live in Dublin city so when they do that, its VERY hard to overtake and I dont want to beep them incase I knock them off. So im left patiently waiting until they decide to finish their conversation and move over for the cars. Im in no way under the impression that cars "own" the road but the difference is, we have a car around us to protect us. Whereas cyclists dont seem to care that they have pretty much ZERO protection. And like another poster said above, if anything happens, the onus is on the driver.

I just want to point out that I am a cyclist aswell and cycle to my pilates class twice a week...but im smart about it and do use the cycle lanes!!!!

Ashbx wrote: »

My "attitude" is your opinion but what "poor" understanding do I have exactly? I did my theory test and my driving test and passed first time. Plus my mam is a driving instructor so I can assure you she was on my back a lot when I was learning to drive so I think im pretty good thank you very much. And I have been driving for over 10 years and have not had one accident.....not even a scratch on ANY of the cars ive owned.

So what driving tests do cyclists take? Oh yeah...none!!!

So you know you're in the right because your mommy said so?

Maximus Alexander · 02-10-2013 2:48pm

Ashbx wrote: »

My "attitude" is your opinion but what "poor" understanding do I have exactly? I did my theory test and my driving test and passed first time. Plus my mam is a driving instructor so I can assure you she was on my back a lot when I was learning to drive so I think im pretty good thank you very much. And I have been driving for over 10 years and have not had one accident.....not even a scratch on ANY of the cars ive owned.

Well done on not having scratched your car. I'm not sure what relevance that has to this discussion though. A lot of drivers would be able to say exactly that right up until the moment that they are involved in an accident. This post is another example of the poor attitude I was talking about.

It's great that your mother is a driving instructor and managed to get you through the test. However, since my post was an attempt to highlight that a test that allows people with a poor understanding of the rules of the road to become licensed drivers is not good enough, this doesn't mean anything.

An example of your poor understanding:

Ashbx wrote: »

Ok, just checked the website again and my mistake you dont have to cycle on the cycle lane but the RSA DOES say you have to stay as far to the left as you can.

No it does not.

The RSA states that cyclists should stay to the left side of the lane, but keep well right of the kerb in order to stay visible and help reduce the risk of drivers attempting to overtake unsafely.

The entire reason for this is that drivers like you think that cyclists should keep well left so that you can glide past them with ease. That's not the case - you should never pass a cyclist unless you are in a spot where it is safe to overtake properly.

hardCopy · 02-10-2013 2:48pm

tin79 wrote: »

The fact that cyclists can go out and cycle like idiots without even needing a licence is also bewildering.

And they let pedestrians out without any training or protective equipment as well. It's shocking Joe!

07Lapierre · 02-10-2013 2:49pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Pretty much what I do. I'd cycle single file in an urban environment and am quite conscious of holding up traffic behind me (that is in the rare circumstances that the traffic is moving faster than me. If only the cars and buses would get out of my way in the 80% of time that I am travelling faster than them!!)

If I am alone on a country road, I will generally ride far out from the side so that a car can't speed up behind me and squeeze me into the hedge. Because, believe me, you give a motorist on a country lane any opportunity to squeeze you off the road in an attempt to get by, they will take it. If I am riding two abreast, the person on the inside will generally be a lot closer to the edge of the road, so I actually don't think there is all that much difference between the space taken if I am on my own compared to if there are two of us.

I know! that's why i say that a group of riders cycling two abreast on a country road can make things worse if they move into single file.

michael.dublin · 02-10-2013 2:50pm

can someone that only drives a car (mostly the people that gives out about taxes), please answer this question.
If someone have a car and a cycle, they pay whatever tax over the car, would they be allowed on the road on the cycle ?

humbert · 02-10-2013 2:50pm

Ashbx wrote: »

Im not looking for an argument so im not going to reply to you anymore.

As requested....http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Pedestrians-and-Cyclists/Cycling-safety/

Make sure you keep to the left.

Is absolutely not the same as:

Ashbx wrote:

RSA DOES say you have to stay as far to the left as you can

And as I said, that isn't a law. But I assume it was in anticipation of that response that you made it clear that you weren't going to reply.

Surveyor11 · 02-10-2013 2:52pm

We've become so car dependent that other road users are seen at this stage as an inconvenience to motorists. Cyclists have every right to use the road and should behave with common courtesy when doing so, not different than any other road user. When I'm out cycling in a group, we'll generally be 2 abreast - this is more for safety than anything. On Sunday last, on a narrow road, we 'singled up' and a car passed - flashed his indicators in appreciation. That worked.

When I'm on my own, I will cycle defensively. Part of my commuter is on the Strawberry Beds. Last week, a van almost crushed me between the side of the van and a road barrier. I had not cycled defensively. Nearly paid dearly for that. I was hoping that 'tortoise thing' on my head didn't have to be used in anger. And before anyone asks, I ride with 2 x 70 lumen lights (i.e. very bright!) on the back, as well as a hi-vis jacket and ruck sack cover. You'd be legally blind not to see me.

Also, this notion of 'cyclists causing accident' seems to be creeping into common culture. People in cars will quite happily pass me on blind corners, into oncoming traffic and will also barge past me when given the chance. Again, I will cycle defensively to prevent this. I will clip along at 35km/hr on my commute, so a few seconds between me and the next traffic jam is not going to hurt. Ramming me into the ditche however will.

Surveyor11 · 02-10-2013 2:53pm

michael.dublin wrote: »

can someone that only drives a car (mostly the people that gives out about taxes), please answer this question.
If someone have a car and a cycle, they pay whatever tax over the car, would they be allowed on the road on the cycle ?

Using a bike on the road doesn't require payment of any motor taxes, if that's what you're asking?

Ashbx · 02-10-2013 2:54pm

humbert wrote: »

Is absolutely not the same as:

And as I said, that isn't a law. But I assume it was in anticipation of that response that you made it clear that you weren't going to reply.

No I didnt want to reply because you called me a "tad unhinged" and I thought that was bang out of order when im just trying to voice my opinion!!!

hardCopy · 02-10-2013 3:01pm

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Using a bike on the road doesn't require payment of any motor taxes, if that's what you're asking?

I think that's directed at the frequent nonsense spouted by some people that cyclists shouldn't use the road because they don't pay road motor tax. When in reality, many many cyclists already pay motor tax.

I think motorists who cycle should get a rebate on their motor tax for cycling. This would be just about impossible to implement though.

michael.dublin · 02-10-2013 3:09pm

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Using a bike on the road doesn't require payment of any motor taxes, if that's what you're asking?

most of the argument i see here is, i use a car, i pay for the car, and i pay for using the road. So what i am asking is this: would people that drive only a car, think that that payment for the car, cover the use of a cycle on the road. as all the argument is "we pay for using the road, and you don't"
i know Using a bike on the road doesn't require payment of any motor taxes. just looks like you should only be allowed to use the road if you pay, according to some motorist .
If we take it one step further, would about putting tax on people that walk on the road (you use it) or someone that push a buggy, they also use the road...

michael.dublin · 02-10-2013 3:11pm

hardCopy you are 100% right, that was what i was trying to say. you just had the right words. Thanks :-)

tin79 · 02-10-2013 3:12pm

strobe wrote: »

Jesus... 57 pages of this... you kidding me?

Look the cyclists pick a gladiator and the motorists pick a gladiator and then the winner of that fight gets to keep the roads, like in the good old days.

Roman style or the pussy type with padded mats and lycra?

Surveyor11 · 02-10-2013 3:16pm

michael.dublin wrote: »

most of the argument i see here is, i use a car, i pay for the car, and i pay for using the road. So what i am asking is this: would people that drive only a car, think that that payment for the car, cover the use of a cycle on the road. as all the argument is "we pay for using the road, and you don't"
i know Using a bike on the road doesn't require payment of any motor taxes. just looks like you should only be allowed to use the road if you pay, according to some motorist .
If we take it one step further, would about putting tax on people that walk on the road (you use it) or someone that push a buggy, they also use the road...

Everyone that pays tax (not motor tax) pays for the road- the tax is collected by central government and issued to the local authorities in grant form. As I said previously, we have some of the highest taxes related to motoring, so our roads should be top class. Which they are not.

Cyclists on a Backroad

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