ATC Student Programme 2013 *Warning post 195*

beazee

Heads up for those who are interested.

Just got an email from IAA they will be advertising for places on their next Student Air Traffic Controller Programme Training Course from Thursday, 11th of April.

Online only applications are being accepted until 12 noon on the 25th of April. Good luck!

Warning posted in post 195 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84829431&postcount=195

Please read.

slonglat

I might apply but have you looked at the pay and conditions?

It has been reduced to 32k per year. There is no pay for the 2 year training period so you'll have to support yourself too.

Capri86

I got the letter today. I forgot I had my name down to be informed a very long time ago. I am in Aircraft Engineering for a good while now and don't fancy starting all over again. Shame, I would have loved to do it a few years ago.

jeepers101

slonglat wrote: »

I might apply but have you looked at the pay and conditions?

It has been reduced to 32k per year. There is no pay for the 2 year training period so you'll have to support yourself too.

Source?

beazee

Do I get paid while participating in the Student Controller Programme?

Yes, all students receive an annual allowance while actively engaged on the training programme.

Do many people apply for the Student Air Traffic Controller programme?

When the Authority advertised in 2010 we received 4,134 applications for 24 positions that commenced 24th February 2011.

The Authority reserves the right to change the selection process and add or delete stages as determined by the IAA.

https://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=404&n=405

That's 171 people to beat in order to be offered a position.

Contrails

slonglat wrote: »

I might apply but have you looked at the pay and conditions?

It has been reduced to 32k per year. There is no pay for the 2 year training period so you'll have to support yourself too.

"Do I get paid while participating in the Student Controller Programme?

Yes, all students receive an annual allowance while actively engaged on the training programme."

https://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=404&n=405

jeepers101

Looks to me like a shameless attempt at putting off the competition

adamski8

i never got an email. Sent my interest back in january. Is anyone sure the pay is so low now?

beazee

no one is

Pilotdude5

What was the starting pay before?

To put it in perspective, a HSE Doctor starts on 31k now.

beazee

€51k +27% shift allowance

Pilotdude5

beazee wrote: »

€51k +27% shift allowance

I have made a terrible career choice.

adamski8

beazee wrote: »

€51k +27% shift allowance

Yeah thats a huge drop if true anyway. It might be true along with the unpaid training as they havent released any info. The poster who replied saying training is paid for is only quoting the previous training programmes.

nosedive

I'm afraid the news about the reduced salary is true, as is the information about there being no training allowance.

Advertisements will be public tomorrow - you'll see for yourselves!

Sitec

Is there much point in applying without a relevant third level degree/experience?

nosedive

Absolutely - if you're interested, apply. Education isn't really a concern - ATC is an aptitude and the recruitment process will determine whether you have it or not.

adamski8

nosedive wrote: »

I'm afraid the news about the reduced salary is true, as is the information about there being no training allowance.

Advertisements will be public tomorrow - you'll see for yourselves!

Why would there be such a huge reduction? Surely its still public sector. I know everyone starting post 09 starts on a lower salary, somewhere around 10% but thats nearly a 40% reduction!

Names

adamski8 wrote: »

Why would there be such a huge reduction? Surely its still public sector. I know everyone starting post 09 starts on a lower salary, somewhere around 10% but thats nearly a 40% reduction!

The IAA is not public sector & is not funded by the state in anyway

adamski8

Names wrote: »

The IAA is not public sector & is not funded by the state in anyway

Oh well then i guess fair enough. Guess there will be fewer applicants this time round anyway. Bit tough that there will be no training stipend. 2 years is a long time to go within an income. Id say you cant even claim welfare due to being a student?!!

notharrypotter

I found reference to EU educational standards no805 of2011.

hold at least a diploma granting access to university or equivalent, or any other secondary education qualification, which enables them to complete air traffic controller training;

So it’s Leaving Cert standard here

"I might apply but have you looked at the pay and conditions?

It has been reduced to 32k per year. There is no pay for the 2 year trainingperiod so you'll have to support yourself too."

whare is this posted?

omega man

Names wrote: »

The IAA is not public sector & is not funded by the state in anyway

Yes no funding but a state sponsored organisation (semi state).

Tenger

beazee wrote: »

€51k +27% shift allowance

Thats a drop from what was advertised 2-4 years ago....(during the last recruitment campaign)

Stormhawk88

Note on Student Controller Programme

No payment will be made to Students while undergoing training.

Successful applicants will undergo a Training Programme of approximately 2 years duration, based initially at the Authority’s Training Centre at Ballycasey, Shannon, Co. Clare and subsequently at one of the three State Airports (Dublin, Shannon and Cork)

If you successfully complete the Programme, including attainment of an ICAO rating (licence) you may be offered appointment as an Air Traffic Controller. Salary for Air Traffic Controllers is based on an incremental scale.

The basic salary for an Air Traffic Controller starts at €32,500 rising over a 20 point annual incremental scale to a current maximum of €88,540. Air Traffic Controllers also receive a shift allowance for working unsocial hours. Salary is payable by credit transfer less standard PAYE, Government Levies and PRSI deductions (Class A).

Where you accept an offer of employment as an ATCO with the IAA and you subsequently serve for less than 7 years you will be required to repay training costs and this will form part of your contract of employment.

Where following completion of your training you receive an offer of employment as an ATCO with
the IAA and you refuse the position you will be liable to repay training costs of €190,000.

Students will incur no liability for training costs in the following circumstances:

- Where they have their training contract terminated by the Authority
- Where Students terminate their training contract prior to the achievement of a rating
- Where Students are not offered employment with the Authority


In the event of you being offered a position on the Student Controller Programme, you will be required to confirm your acceptance of the salary and other conditions applying to the post of Air Traffic Controller with the IAA, in advance of your participation on the programme.


NB THE ABOVE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY




Updated 10 April 2013




Link: https://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=148&n=149

jeepers101

Can't see any reference on that link to salary or training allowance

Edit: See it now at the end of the .doc download. Bummer.

beazee

Stormhawk88 wrote: »

No payment will be made to Students while undergoing training (...) of approximately 2 years duration, based initially (...) at Ballycasey, Shannon, Co. Clare

Well... good luck to all applying.
A student programme thus they are looking for students.

funkhouser

beazee wrote: »

Well... good luck to all applying.
A student programme thus they are looking for students.

It's a change to a long established and international practice. You are guaranteed a degree in a third level course once you work hard and even if you fail or switch degrees the cost isn't huge, you can also study locally at third level.

This is a different situation. There is a 75% pass rate for this course, roughly. 6 out of every 24 will fail. Eating through savings, either yours or worse - someone else's, 30k say, only to fail at the end would be a lot to take. And seeing as they are effectively charging you 190k for training I think the least that should be done is to provide students with subsistence. You can't work part-time while training, you also need to eat well and be able to enjoy life a little bit outside the course. You'll be less likely to be able to do that now and it can only affect negatively the average performance.

It wouldn't be so bad not getting subsistence while training if you were going to be earning decent money coming out but 32k is extremely low by international standards. Search others forums to see what the going rate is. 32k isn't it. At least not in Europe, it's a long way short.

This development is very disappointing. The quality of candidates and thus controllers will likely be reduced. Yes, they will have to pass the rating but the conditions now make it a job heavily skewed in favour of locals and those from wealthy families. A great swathe of candidates will now be excluded.

Best of luck to anyone going for it. It's not the type of situation that will elicit the same response the nurses gave and many will apply but if you are going for it your chances are much better than they were before.

adamski8

Yeah its a job for wealthy people from munster now

artanevilla

Currently doing an aircraft maintenance course at a 3rd level institution. Was going to apply so I could do something in the industry and get an allowance while studying also. Not going to bother now.

nah_biy!

Became very excited when I received the email as regards the course. Read through old threads and accepted the 4 years & €500/fortnight and was all set to fill out the form. This has been a dream of mine for years and was willing to give up my current engineering role. However now the 2 years study is unpaid and the lengthening of obliged work to avoid fees to 7 years has killed any dreaming. All that allied to the bass rate is going to see a massive drop off in numbers and more worrying a drop off in ability.

aw

Similar sentiments to everyone else.
I had planned on applying this time and I had steeled myself for getting by on the study allowance but absolutely cannot do it without financial support. I further doubt that this would come in under any grant or BTEA schemes either.

It really seems a shortsighted idea to save a few € on the training and smacks of something that has not been thought through properly as to what implications this may have for future candidates.

Maybe they are following the airline industry in other areas, i.e. getting rid of sponsored cadet schemes in favour of hiring skilled people who have funded their own training.

It is very out of line with any other agencies though, like NATS or Eurocontrol as are the salary grades. But the salary cuts are to be somewhat expected given the cutbacks across every industry.

Maybe they will offer something to successful applicants after they get through and they are not in a position to say this publicly. Wishful thinking perhaps.

highlydebased

I too shall not apply for the same reason as the above posters. It was bad enough not being able to support myself financially through 4 years of college.