ATC Student Programme 2013 *Warning post 195*

urajoke

Hold on you're NOT trying to prove anything to yourself or others BUT you are still going to waste your time and the IAAs time for something you know you are not going to accept even if you get an offer, seems a bit odd to me. If you're not trying to prove anything then you must be just bored.

I'm sorry I just don't get your logic on this one.

BTW still waiting for the T&A

hashbones

You don't get the logic? As i said in a previous post i have my own reasons for proceeding and unless i divulge them to you which i havn't then you have no grounds to say im wasting my time now have you.

As for wasting the IAA's time i couldn't care any less. Im sure they'll get over it. It may take time, years even but they'll recover eventually.

urajoke

hashbones wrote: »

You don't get the logic? As i said in a previous post i have my own reasons for proceeding and unless i divulge them to you which i havn't then you have no grounds to say im wasting my time now have you

So you are trying to prove something to yourself then. Well either your a journalist or your going to apply to NATs.

hashbones

you are a genuine fool

urajoke

hashbones wrote: »

you are a genuine fool

Thanks your so sweet, still waiting for the T&A BTW

pclancy

Unacceptable hashbones, please read the forum charter. Attack the post and not the poster.

groundcontrol

Folks I have to say I am also going to the final interview stage and I am still unsure as to whether I will be able to take up a position if it is offered to me.
I have known that from the start but I have still continued with the recruitment process. I had hoped that I would have come up with a plan by now but I still don't have one and I certainly do not feel any way bad for doing it.

Top Dog

groundcontrol wrote: »

Folks I have to say I am also going to the final interview stage and I am still unsure as to whether I will be able to take up a position if it is offered to me.
I have known that from the start but I have still continued with the recruitment process. I had hoped that I would have come up with a plan by now but I still don't have one and I certainly do not feel any way bad for doing it.

Huge difference between being unsure if you'll be able to accept/finance the training, and having no intention at all of accepting an offer like hashbones above.

Tbh all hashbones seems intent on doing is rubbing people up the wrong way, and it certainly seems to have worked. :mad:

urajoke

Being genuine and being insert term of your own choice here are two different things.

We controllers think its hugely unfair and are certain that the IAA next time round will have learned their lesson and will return to the old method of funding the SCPs during training. I can't think of one of my colleagues that would have been a controller now if they had to fund themselves through their training. What they gave us wasn't a lot but it help cover most of the costs, most still ended up with loans of some sort but manageable ones.

groundeffect

Its shame for people to have got so far in this process to then be in a position that they wont be able to take it cause they wont be able to fund themselves. I really think the I.A.A. have shot themselves in the foot...it would appear that some candidates, even if they get offered the position, will turn it down due to money. Additionally, it wouldnt be a massive surprise if successful candidates ended up dropping out during the course because they can no longer support themselves.

If the Authority want the best controllers, for what is a highly responsible job, then they really have to help people get through the training financially, otherwise it will come back to hurt them in the future. I know they set out initially what the terms of the position are, but its just a massive shame for candidates who could be great at the job but cant continue due to money. I just feel sorry for those candidates who really want it, but cant, understandably, afford it.

noahcian

there have been a few scare stories on here over the last couple of months re the conditions and the holidays and the hours and the fact you would be funding yourself. But what are the chances that at the end of 2 years and spending the guts of €40k to support yourself while away from your family who will be living across the country, you will NOT get employment? That is the really scary prospect!!

irishbloke77

noahcian wrote: »

there have been a few scare stories on here over the last couple of months re the conditions and the holidays and the hours and the fact you would be funding yourself. But what are the chances that at the end of 2 years and spending the guts of €40k to support yourself while away from your family who will be living across the country, you will NOT get employment? That is the really scary prospect!!

That's assuming you live across the country. Some people do live west of Naas. As for the "No employment clause" has anyone ever passed everything and NOT been offered employment. Am I right in saying that if its not offered, you are a qualified controller and you don't have to pay back anything for the training? (Apart from your own costs of course)

Out of interest, had a look through, can't find the posts about scare stories about holidays and hours, can you point me in that direction please, thanks.

groundcontrol

irishbloke77 wrote: »

That's assuming you live across the country. Some people do live west of Naas. As for the "No employment clause" has anyone ever passed everything and NOT been offered employment. Am I right in saying that if its not offered, you are a qualified controller and you don't have to pay back anything for the training? (Apart from your own costs of course)

Out of interest, had a look through, can't find the posts about scare stories about holidays and hours, can you point me in that direction please, thanks.

There is no chance of that realistically. If you pass the course you will get a job. What I do reckon is that if the positions were not available they may slow the course down which, if you were not being paid would be a disaster.

notharrypotter

at the end of 2 years and spending the guts of €40k to support yourself while away from your family who will be living across the country

Single rooms in Shannon near Training centre from €180 pm

http://www.rent.ie/rooms-to-rent/clare/shannon/

There is no chance of that realistically. If you pass the course you will get a job. What I do reckon is that if the positions were not available they may slow the course down which, if you were not being paid would be a disaster.

In the initial offer it says "may" offer you a job on successful completion of the rating course.
In a previous version of this thread it mentions that it is possible you could have a rating within 18 months if things move without any hitches.

Out of interest, had a look through, can't find the posts about scare stories about holidays and hours, can you point me in that direction please, thanks.

The ATC centre in Shannon is open 24 hrs every day including Christmas and New Year. this has implications for anyone with children not living locally.

The actual shifts vary but follow a set pattern but you only get your roster 2 months in advance which could make planning awkward.

Lifted from another forum

In Shannon it is a 5 on and 3 off system, and for arguments sake starting your shift cycle on a Monday:

Monday: Late 1 - 1130-2115
Tuesday: Swing 1 - 0830 - 1635
Wednesday: Dog - 0800 - 1300
Thursday: Night 1 - 0000 - 0840
Friday: Night 2 - 2100 - 0815 (This actually starts at 2100 on thursday night, but as it finishes on Friday it is counted as friday's duty)
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: Rest
Monday: Rest

There are some alternate cycles of all days, but only a few people doing those, and also there is about once about every 8 cycles a 5 on 3 off of with a Late followed by 4 x Swing X - 1000-1935, but the above is the core roster. As regards breaks, the agreed max for sitting in position is 2 hours with a 25 minute fatigue break. Leave outside of Summer Block Leave is virtually non existant, and with those leaving, and those on maternity leave it is only getting tighter.

urajoke

noahcian wrote: »

there have been a few scare stories on here over the last couple of months re the conditions and the holidays and the hours and the fact you would be funding yourself. But what are the chances that at the end of 2 years and spending the guts of €40k to support yourself while away from your family who will be living across the country, you will NOT get employment? That is the really scary prospect!!

The most important part of the training is being put on a rating course passing it and getting onto OJTI and checking out from that in terms of your employment. I can't see them NOT doing that as there is quite a large number of retirements due in the next 5 years so they need the new ratings.

If you completed the school element but they didn't place you onto a rating course you are no more employable as a controller than you are now. Most other ANSPs would get you to retrain from the basics onwards.

School hours are 9:30-5:30 mon-fri. OJTI is shift work following your trainers roster. Shift work is as per previous posters quote. Dublins is different taking into account the different traffic patterns I.e. more earlier starts 06:00, 06:30 and 07:00 to cope with the 70 or so arrival/departures from 06:30-08:00. But don't worry about Dublin any SCPs posted to Dublin will only be for a temporary transfer. 20+ Current Shannon ATCOs on a list looking for a transfer to Dublin ahead of you.

noahcian

Anyone have any idea what to expect in the Competency based Interviews?

groundcontrol

noahcian wrote: »

Anyone have any idea what to expect in the Competency based Interviews?

Where does it say that they are competency based?

noahcian

on the website: Stage 5 Final Interview

Indicative schedule Monday 29th July to Wednesday 31st July 2013.

Interviews for the final stage of the recruitment process will be competency based.

Applicants will be expected to have some basic knowledge of the Irish Aviation Authority and the Air Traffic Control Service and the various other activities in which it is involved. Most of this information is contained on the IAA website.

All applicants will be required to produce a Valid Passport for identification purposes.

groundcontrol

noahcian wrote: »

on the website: Stage 5 Final Interview

Indicative schedule Monday 29th July to Wednesday 31st July 2013.

Interviews for the final stage of the recruitment process will be competency based.

Applicants will be expected to have some basic knowledge of the Irish Aviation Authority and the Air Traffic Control Service and the various other activities in which it is involved. Most of this information is contained on the IAA website.

All applicants will be required to produce a Valid Passport for identification purposes.

Cool thanks for that. When is your interview?

noahcian

tomorrow. you?

groundcontrol

Same. Good luck!!

aftershock84

So how did anyone do? Any ideas how many days interviews run? The girl at check in said Wednesday 31st was last day. Nice bunch of people the interviewers, well structured. Good luck to all.

groundcontrol

To be honest I think I messed up the interview pretty badly. Pretty pissed off with myself right now!

aftershock84

How do you think you messed up groundcontrol?? It wasn't that technical at all, more a run of the mill general interview. Not too many specifics related to atc. Ah im sure they have already profiled the personalities they looking for so even if you got tongue tied you might fit the bill. Any ideas when we going to hear back?

groundcontrol

aftershock84 wrote: »

How do you think you messed up groundcontrol?? It wasn't that technical at all, more a run of the mill general interview. Not too many specifics related to atc. Ah im sure they have already profiled the personalities they looking for so even if you got tongue tied you might fit the bill. Any ideas when we going to hear back?

Just panicked a lot under pressure ( not very like me) found it difficult to come up with som of the examples they looked for. Most disappointed I ever was with myself after an interview.

My guess would be next week for word. Finish Wednesday and then give a couple of days for them to work out who they want. I definitely wot be holding my breath for good news!

noahcian

had it this morning as well. felt went ok but came out wishing i had used different examples. they were very, very nice people and the girl in front office really puts u at ur ease. when i was there they were running about 15 mins late so be ready for a little wait if there tomorrow. if u aren't sure of question, ask and they are very glad to expand on question. good luck to everyone tomorrow. not sure when we will here back though.

noahcian

did anyone interview today?

leveleye

noahcian wrote: »

did anyone interview today?

Yea had mine earlier. Taught went ok. Quite enjoyed the most of it. Still hard to know how they felt do. What will Ben will be now I suppose.

NapMan

Anyone any more comments on the interview? Definitely a strange one alright. Thought i did quite well but you never know really, as said already i think they have everyone well profiled already and just looking to confirm this in the interviews.

Amazing that barely any of the interview was aviation related. Was this the same for everyone?

Anyway best of luck to everybody, its sure been a long process and hopefully worthwhile.

aftershock84

Hi NapMan. Yes same as, not much aviation related, was asked something along the lines of do i keep up with current trends or advancements in ATC technology. Answered OK i think. A lot of the questioning was usual run of the mill interview type stuff, "give examples from your experience where.......".
Hopefully they don't leave us hanging too long to hear back. Like previous rounds i presume everyone gets word on how we did either way?
I know it could be a jinx to talk about but anyone any details on medical? Is it a standard medical or is a fitness test included?