What does Cork need?

who_me

Another area that you'd think has loads of potential would be the Firkin Crane / Butter Exchange / St. Anne's church & grounds area. If it were in any other country, that square would be lined with lively cafes, restaurants and bars; instead the square is largely a car park. Yes, there's been some effort to rejuvenate it, but it could be so much better.

Sofaspud

It needs better / cheaper public transport for the outskirts. When I'm in Cork I live in Macroom, and it's €15 for a return, €35 for a family day ticket for 3 of us to go in, which is just ridiculous. The buses are every hour and always seem packed, so it's not like there's no demand.

ravendude

Ludo wrote: »

Of course they do it in other countries. Most things wrong in Ireland are the same the world over. You just don't notice it as you don't live there so don't see it. I've seen that some on at least 2 other countries.

I do notice and travel extensively abroad with my work , - its rare to see the kind of pothole filling we have going on here in most other developed European countries. In other countries they generally patch pot holes and the fix lasts much longer, if not permanently and has a smoother surface. Here we stupidly shovel tarmac into potholes and then wonder why we need to do it again a few months later and why our road surfaces are diabolically lumpy. Its utterly stupid short term thinking, ...sorry

Ludo wrote: »

Most things wrong in Ireland are the same the world over.

Far from it my friend, - that's not my experience.

Ludo

On major roads... Yes like they patched the south ring properly last week but on minor roads I have seen this filling pot holes done in the UK and France. Fair enough if you have seen them properly patch them but I have seen the "Irish" method used.

BobBobBobBob

Do something with the old Capitol Cineplex and have a Pure Skill like they have in Galway, I think it would be a hit. I love heading in there for an hour or two.

cantdecide

Ludo wrote: »

On major roads... Yes like they patched the south ring properly last week but on minor roads I have seen this filling pot holes done in the UK and France. Fair enough if you have seen them properly patch them but I have seen the "Irish" method used.

The problem is that on minor roads they use the Irish method as a permanent solution. The country road outside my house is a scream. There are lumps on lumps on lumps or tarmac. The roads fall away to jagged mess at the sides making it a risk to pedestrians. We've had to sign a petition to give to the local council to surface it properly. They spent nearly two weeks just "patching" the two mile stretch again and it was poop again within a month or two...

If you travel into Killeagh, East Cork you'll see that as you cross the humpback bridge there's a badly repaired depression. Two years ago there was a tractor heading west over the bridge as I was travelling east. The tractor hit the pothole hard and the sprayer arm on the tractor broke it's chain and swung out and cleaved me off my motorbike. I was lucky I wasn't decapitated. Ambulances/ cops/ miles of tailbacks/ bike written off. The whole shooting match... all because of a pothole... I'm not a fan of potholes.

It's not even an Ireland thing. It's a Cork thing. It's even more an East Cork/ city thing.

ravendude

cantdecide wrote: »

The problem is that on minor roads they use the Irish method as a permanent solution. The country road outside my house is a scream. There are lumps on lumps on lumps or tarmac. The roads fall away to jagged mess at the sides making it a risk to pedestrians. We've had to sign a petition to give to the local council to surface it properly. They spent nearly two weeks just "patching" the two mile stretch again and it was poop again within a month or two...

If you travel into Killeagh, East Cork you'll see that as you cross the humpback bridge there's a badly repaired depression. Two years ago there was a tractor heading west over the bridge as I was travelling east. The tractor hit the pothole hard and the sprayer arm on the tractor broke it's chain and swung out and cleaved me off my motorbike. I was lucky I wasn't decapitated. Ambulances/ cops/ miles of tailbacks/ bike written off. The whole shooting match... all because of a pothole... I'm not a fan of potholes.

It's not even an Ireland thing. It's a Cork thing. It's even more an East Cork/ city thing.

Absolutely, - the shovel of tarmac should only be used (if at all) as an interim and very short term fix until the hole is properly patched. problem is that its used as a long term solution and the patch part never happens. In a lot of countries they hardly do the shovels of tarmac at all and just patch in the first place.

Solair

Ludo wrote: »

On major roads... Yes like they patched the south ring properly last week but on minor roads I have seen this filling pot holes done in the UK and France. Fair enough if you have seen them properly patch them but I have seen the "Irish" method used.

Have you ever driven in Belgium ?!!?
Certainly no high tech patching going on on any of the non-motorway routes there that's for sure.

I actually think there's a big problem in Ireland though with utility companies ripping up roads and then filling them with the wrong materials.

I've also seen a lot of cases where they've ripped up very expensive looking new paving and filled it back in with tarmac or concrete instead of restoring it to the original state.

I'm sure the ESB wouldn't be too pleased if the City Council turned up at their HQ and dug a trench through reception and then filled it with tarmac. That's pretty much the attitude the utilities have to city streets.

Gummybear2013

Would love to see a aldi store or lidi store in town i love shopping here and do be sick of getting bus out to like blackpool or turners cross just to shop there

DJ Hafez

Gummybear2013 wrote: »

Would love to see a aldi store or lidi store in town i love shopping here and do be sick of getting bus out to like blackpool or turners cross just to shop there

Lidl is opening under TKMaxx in the coming weeks/months

Rhys Essien

I think a proper big wheel like the London eye on Horgans quay would look well.It would take the bareness out of that massive empty yard.
They can be hired from a company here.(C'mon City Council)
http://www.greatcityattractions.com/about.php


I think that Shandon should be lit up properly at night.Its a pity to see a clock tower like it in darkness.Something like this would look the job.

Gummybear2013

DJ Hafez wrote: »

Lidl is opening under TKMaxx in the coming weeks/months

Oh is it really where did you hear this? that just made my day so has i cant wait

evilivor

Gummybear2013 wrote: »

Oh is it really where did you hear this? that just made my day so has i cant wait

" German discount retailer Lidl also gets a clear planning green-light from Cork City Hall for a new 25,000 sq ft supermarket in the basement of the Cornmarket Centre, bringing it closer to occupancy."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0307/business/brewery-for-coal-quay-224675.html

Gummybear2013

evilivor wrote: »

" German discount retailer Lidl also gets a clear planning green-light from Cork City Hall for a new 25,000 sq ft supermarket in the basement of the Cornmarket Centre, bringing it closer to occupancy."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0307/business/brewery-for-coal-quay-224675.html

Oh delighted to hear that thanks for putting this up i be shopping there alot and being a student it saves me alot of money as well

Totally Tropical

The city council need to do something about those runners hanging from a telephone line on the coal quay outside the bodega.

Milly33

Had a brain wave it needs some accomdation not hotel based but feck it a stop off point like a nice hostel would be spot on in the city. The old cinemplex site would be great. if mr twatty O'Callaghan would wake up and do something with it rather than planning daft concert venues

Pitcairn

Lot of good suggestions on this thread and some terrible ones.
But people should really make submissions to this new development plan for Cork. It's the best opportunity to say what the city needs and what we should be about.
There is a public meeting on the plan in the Imperial at 5.30pm next Wednesday. http://www.corkcity.ie/news/mainbody,61424,en.html


Preparation of a new Cork City Development Plan

Cork City Council is in the process of reviewing the current City Development Plan and preparing a new City Development Plan. This new plan will replace the current City Development Plan which was adopted in April 2009.The new plan will set out the overall strategy for the future development of Cork City.

The formal review of the Cork City Development Plan 2009-2015 commences on the 22nd April 2013. To this end, an Issues Paper has been produced which seeks to identify those issues that need to be addressed in the next City Development Plan. This Issues Paper forms part of the initial stage of this project and of public consultation on the Cork City Development Plan.

The development plan is primarily focused on physical planning issues such as the location of development and the appropriate uses of land. However, these cannot be successfully accomplished by us without first understanding the key economic, social and cultural objectives of the wider community.

The development plan fits into the broader range of policies and plans developed and implemented at a regional, national, European and, ultimately, a global level. Equally, though, the development plan is intended to deal with our local issues.

Cork city is the primary urban centre in the South-West and the foremost economic and development generator in the region. As regional capital and national Gateway city the success of Cork City is both a key driver of the region and also a key indicator as to the economic health and success of the Metropolitan area. The National Spatial Strategy includes an objective for Cork to develop as a metropolitan centre that is dynamic and socially balanced, served by effective public transport and offering a high quality of life for its population.

Among Cork’s strengths are the two high profile third level education establishments. With a highly skilled workforce the city region is a location of choice for high tech industries such as Medical Devices, Information & Communications Technology (ICT) and pharmaceuticals. The city is also the location for regional level health provision and a strong range of government bodies and infrastructure providers as well as having one of the main national ports.

The slowdown in the economy has had an impact on the pace of development in and around the city and the city itself has not experienced the level of population growth that would be desirable. The challenge for the new city development plan will be to look to the future and identify ways it can contribute to further development of the city as a good place to do business in, to visit and live.

Questions to consider
· How do you want the city to develop?

· Can transport choices for people be improved?

· Where should future shops and retailing go?

· Is Cork City socially inclusive?

· How do we attract more employment into the city and where should it go?

· Have we sufficient facilities for leisure, recreation, sports?

· What types of new housing should be encouraged and where should it go?

· How can new development be accommodated in the city while retaining its distinctive character?

· What can be done in Cork City to address climate change?


The initial public consultation process will last 8 weeks from the 22nd April to the 17th June 2013. Following this, submissions will be analysed and a City Manager’s Report on the consultation process will be prepared for submission to Council. Preparation of the Draft City Development Plan will take place towards the end of 2013.

This Issues Paper (Section 11 Consultation Document) and submissions leaflet are available to download from our website www.corkcity.ie Submission Leaflets can also be picked up at the planning counter of Cork City Hall and at various locations around the city including the city libraries. Comments can be emailed to: cdp@corkcity.ie or write to Patrick Ledwidge, Director of Services, Strategic Planning & Economic Development Directorate, Cork City Council, City Hall, Anglesea Street, Cork.

All submissions or observations need to be received by the Council by 4pm on Monday 17th June 2013. Please be advised that, as per Section 11 of the Planning & Development Acts 2000 to 2011, requests or proposals on zoning of particular land for any purpose shall not be considered at this stage. Further information on the City Development Plan can be obtained by emailing planningpolicy@corkcity.ie or phoning 021 4924086/4924757.

Rhys Essien

Owen O'Callaghan now given permission for Event Centre on Albert Quay.It looks pretty impressive.He hopes to start early next year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/50m-conference-and-events-centre-gets-green-light-236051.html

Pitcairn

Here is a good rundown of the three possible event centres with images.
http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/05/07/corks-arena-dream-a-step-closer-to-reality/
I would say realistically the Beamish site and Owen O'Callaghan's Albert Quay are the only likely options as Howard Holdings are gone.

Rhys Essien

The Examiner picture and the Echo picture of the Albert Quay venue are two totally different buildings????

Pitcairn

Think the Examiner are using an older image from a previous planning application.
The new Owen O'Callaghan event centre planning file can be viewed here and you can see the image the Echo used in the drawings. You might need to download a plugin to view these.
http://planning.corkcity.ie/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=1134944

who_me

While I like the idea of having an event centre at the Beamish site, I HATED the design there (very big and very bland, and it blocks one of the nicest views in the city of St. Finbarr's when looking down South Mall).

I much prefer this design, and the location is still pretty good (actually better, if the Council are still interested in redeveloping the docklands). The question is - are either of them actually going to be built? It's one thing getting permissions, will either actually ever find the money?

I'm curious though - is this the same O'Callaghan who developed Mahon Point? When permission was granted for that, a precondition was an event centre would be built there as part of the development - and if not a hefty penalty would be levied. No event centre was ever built, and - correct me if I'm wrong - the penalty was never levied either.

evilivor

who_me wrote: »

While I like the idea of having an event centre at the Beamish site, I HATED the design there (very big and very bland, and it blocks one of the nicest views in the city of St. Finbarr's when looking down South Mall).

I much prefer this design, and the location is still pretty good (actually better, if the Council are still interested in redeveloping the docklands). The question is - are either of them actually going to be built? It's one thing getting permissions, will either actually ever find the money?

The city council are waiting to throw money at it. They want the developers to outline the level of public funding they need to bridge the ‘market failure’ gap to get the project off the ground and they will fill it with your money.

The last time (2007) the City proposed to invest €8m but the development never took place.

It will cost anywhere between €30m and €50m to develop a multi-functional venue for Cork and the City council want to spend public money on this white elephant when they already have a 1,000 seater venue that is hemorrhaging loses. I can't wait until they decide we need a monorail.

calnand

I remember reading somewhere that O'Callaghan owes the council around €6 million as a fine for not building the conference centre in mahon point. It was in the 90's that that original planning was granted. I'm not sure have the council received that money as of yet, but my understanding is that the money was to be put forward to any future event centre in the city.
I much prefer the location of the beamish site, better public access and would really become part of the city than the Albert quay site. I don't think it would have any impact on the view of st finbarres, the only view that might be obstructed would be from south main street, but that was nearly always blocked by the brewery tanks. Hopefully they'll decide which one to build soon as its something the city really needs.

Milly33

Man nooo I wish they had not got the permission for this..O'Callaghan must have someone sweet in the Council, which does not surprise me. They should have most defiantly used the beamish site sure tis already there, built with potential to put the parking in without making any huge changes. Building a whole new place is daft when there are so many unused spaces already in the city.. And well I just have to mention the Arc what a waste of time twats, that would have been perfect.

Missyelliot2

Wish they would just make one good decision! Develop the Beamish site - it would do wonders for that part of town.

SpaceTime

It needs more urban green space. It's the one big complaint I have about Cork City.

It has very, very little parkland.

The Marina and Atlantic Pond area should be cleaned up and turned into a decent urban park with a route to the city centre along the Quays for cyclists and walkers.

The Atlantic Pond is in an absolutely disgraceful state at the moment. It could be a lovely space but instead it's just completely rundown.

They should also look at demolishing the old FAS building and returning it to green space.

Maybe open Collins Barracks as a musem ans park and move the army out to Ballincollig?

I'd also say a big clean up of the dock area around those grain silos. They're an absolute eyesore.

There's also a huge need to deal with dereliction around the edges of the city centre too. Too many buildings in Cork are just sitting idle for decades and it's nothing to do with the boom/bust as many of them were in that state right through the tiger perod.

We've had buildings in Cork literally collapse over the last decade.

The whole area around Shandon and the building itself needs a massive clean and restoration job done too.

It's a huge tourist thing and iconic symbol of Cork yet it is almost embarrassing to bring people to! It's so under funded that it looks like what you'd expect to find in a really poor part of Eastern Europe (pre EU accession !)

I really don't think Cork people hold their local authorities to account nearly enough and tend to view the city through rose tinted glasses at times.

It has a stunning location and masses of potential (some of which is being realised). However, I think Cork could literally be the nicest city in Ireland with just a bit more effort and imagination.

calnand

They are redeveloping the MarIan and Atlantic pond, but it's being held back by that save Marina park group. The fas building is now being used by local arts groups and the Crawford art school, if the building was knocked down now they would have nowhere to use as there's no other suitable location for them in cork.

SpaceTime

They've been redeveloping the Marina for as long as I can remember. I don't know how many years its going on for but it seems to never get beyond planning and articles in the Echo with drawings of things to come that never happen. The planning equivalent of vapour ware.

Its the same with Kebt Station . endless plans and no action.

I went for a walk around the Atlantic pond recently and I don't mean to be harsh but it is a dilapidated kip that resembles a swamp.

The water is filthy and even smells bad towards the Eastern end of the pond. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a bird illness problem in the near future if something isn't done to make the water a little less stagnant.

The concrete is crumbling and the whole area just seems rather run down and depressingly post-industrial.

Parc Ui Caoimh is absolutely falling apart too. It just looks really badly rundown and to be honest the Cork GAA people should be embarrassed at the state of it. County pride should include lobbying very hard for a proper stadium.

In a way I think a decent municipal stadium that could be shared for major GAA, Soccer and Rugby events with a decent athletic track would be a better solution with minor stadia like Turners X, Musgrave Park, Parc ui Rinn etc being used for less important events drawing smaller crowds .

The IRFU, GAA and FAI along with the city council and the other sports bodies could put something decent in place if they would cooperate.

The Marina is in much better shape but could be a lot nicer.

A lot could be achieved even without grand plans. A bit of TLC is all that's needed to spruce up the Shandon area and the Atlantic Pond

who_me

calnand wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere that O'Callaghan owes the council around €6 million as a fine for not building the conference centre in mahon point. It was in the 90's that that original planning was granted. I'm not sure have the council received that money as of yet, but my understanding is that the money was to be put forward to any future event centre in the city.
I much prefer the location of the beamish site, better public access and would really become part of the city than the Albert quay site. I don't think it would have any impact on the view of st finbarres, the only view that might be obstructed would be from south main street, but that was nearly always blocked by the brewery tanks. Hopefully they'll decide which one to build soon as its something the city really needs.

I haven't seen the final approved plans for the Beamish site, but in the initial plans at least the entire complex was huge, dwarfing the Beamish Counting House in front of it.. from the planning document it didn't seem to block the view from the Mall side, but I find it hard to see how it won't, given the view below. Obviously, if you were on the South Mall, your viewing position would be much further to the right and thus in line with the building?



The new building is taller than the tanks, and protrudes out much closer to the river.

I like the Beamish location, but I'd wonder how practical it is? If 5,000 people stream out of that place they'd bring the city centre to a halt. Is there room for a taxi rank on that street without blocking the traffic?

The Albert Quay one isn't exactly out the sticks either, there's already been lots of development on that part of the city (the boardwalk, Elysian, new marina, Sextant bar) and this could help spur more.

I mentioned the fine too above, very curious what the result of that was.

Anyhow, I hope one of them goes ahead, and is sustainable!