RTE & the property tax

Slick50

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't agree with their valuation, just use your own, as it says on the form. Simples!

You must not have seen any of my other posts re: this. What I don't agree with is paying the government rent to live in my own home. Simples? Is that your signature?

donegal_road

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Got to say Sam, I am bewildered that 3 ( as I type ) people 'like' DNC's comment above. They MUST be apologists for this government. How anyone can make excuses and defend these 2 faced thugs is beyond me.

boards.ie and politics.ie are both crawling with government trolls.

dxhound2005

donegal_road wrote: »

boards.ie and politics.ie are both crawling with government trolls.

Your safe here on AH though. Only 32% paid the HHC and 37% said they would vote Sinn Fein if there was an election last year. Making them the biggest party in the country 10% ahead of FG. So I think you are mostly among friends.

Some people even said there is no property tax in the North. How about that for trolling.

squod

donegal_road wrote: »

boards.ie and politics.ie are both crawling with government trolls.

More over, there's all kinds of paid agencies spouting crap on forums like this. Do people not realise that campaigns have staff and cost money, that lots of crap you read in papers or on forums is written by those who directly benefit?

Lobby groups aren't volunteer groups (so much) anymore. People should realise that.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Your safe here on AH though. Only 32% paid the HHC and 37% said they would vote Sinn Fein if there was an election last year. Making them the biggest party in the country 10% ahead of FG. So I think you are mostly among friends.

Some people even said there is no property tax in the North. How about that for trolling.

Are you ready to answer the questions I put to you earlier in the week dxh?

I've been waiting with baited breath on your reply.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84175116&postcount=410

otto_26

schnitzelEater wrote: »

What's there to be one sided about?

It's a legal tax, pay it. Simples.

Last thing we should do is give air time to the soap dodgers.

Ladies and Gentlemen the above is why the Germans lumped a huge debt on the Irish people because they know paddy will keep his month shut and just pay up!!! Simples.

heyjude

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't agree with their valuation, just use your own, as it says on the form. Simples!

As the appeal process was explained in the media, just two people have been assigned to hand all the appeals. Now assuming that just 1% of the 1.6m households that are liable for the tax actually appeal, that would mean 16,000 cases to be investigated. What are the chances that they would be able to adjudicate on all 16,000 cases before the paperwork goes out for next years property tax which will be twice as big as this year ?

I suspect that if you query your valuation and your neighbour/s don't(because they can't be bothered, don't want to p*** off the revenue commissioners or whatever), then your appeal will be rejected. They won't have the time to come down to every single house, compare it to neighbouring properties, examine its state of repair and other aspects such as unsocial behaviour in the neighbourhood, bad neighbours etc that might reduce its value. They may be independent, but either they will be under pressure to give quick decisions which will mean you get the same value as other houses in the same area(as they won't have the time to do more than a cursory check of house sale prices in your area), or the backlog of appeals will take years to get through and by the time your appeal is decided, you'll already have been due to pay several years tax based on the disputed valuation(and then even if they find in your favour, you probably won't get the 4% interest on your overpayment, that they are charging on deferred payments)

dxhound2005

heyjude wrote: »

As the appeal process was explained in the media, just two people have been assigned to hand all the appeals. Now assuming that just 1% of the 1.6m households that are liable for the tax actually appeal, that would mean 16,000 cases to be investigated. What are the chances that they would be able to adjudicate on all 16,000 cases before the paperwork goes out for next years property tax which will be twice as big as this year ?

I suspect that if you query your valuation and your neighbour/s don't(because they can't be bothered, don't want to p*** off the revenue commissioners or whatever), then your appeal will be rejected. They won't have the time to come down to every single house, compare it to neighbouring properties, examine its state of repair and other aspects such as unsocial behaviour in the neighbourhood, bad neighbours etc that might reduce its value. They may be independent, but either they will be under pressure to give quick decisions which will mean you get the same value as other houses in the same area(as they won't have the time to do more than a cursory check of house sale prices in your area), or the backlog of appeals will take years to get through and by the time your appeal is decided, you'll already have been due to pay several years tax based on the disputed valuation(and then even if they find in your favour, you probably won't get the 4% interest on your overpayment, that they are charging on deferred payments)

Rather than depend on the media for your information you can go back to the source.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/2012/proptaxbill2012.pdf

Section 59 appears to be the most relevant bit to what you are on about. You seem well clued up on the various factors which can determine property value so you should be well able to make an honest assessment in your own case. I certainly don't anticipate any challenge to the value that I arrived at for my house and I saw no reason to appeal the band in which it was placed. €50,000 bands give a good degree of flexibility.

People may try to thwart the tax by appealing vexatiously but they still have to make a payment before any appeal can be considered. Was that in the media outlet you saw? This course of action wouldn't be recommended by the people here who still go by the maxim Just do Nothing. Don't pay and just ignore the process seems to be the message.

59.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), a person aggrieved by
a Revenue assessment may appeal against the assessment to the
Appeal Commissioners on giving, within 30 days after the date of
the notice referred to in section 56, notice in writing to the Revenue
officer who gave the notice and Part 9 shall apply accordingly.
(2) A liable person may not appeal to the Appeal Commissioners
until such time as the liable person has prepared and delivered the
relevant return and paid the amount of local property tax contained
in the self-assessment.
(3) A Revenue officer shall refuse an application for an appeal
unless the requirements of subsection (2) have been complied with
within the time allowed by subsection (1) for giving notice of an
appeal.
(4) A Revenue officer may only amend a Revenue assessment
after a liable person has prepared and delivered a return containing
a self-assessment.
(5) Where a liable person appeals against a Revenue assessment
on the grounds referred to in section 58(3) and if, on hearing the
appeal, the Appeal Commissioners determine—
(a) that the Revenue officer was precluded from making the
assessment, this Act shall apply as if that assessment had
not been made,

(b) that the Revenue officer was not so precluded, the assessment
shall stand, except to the extent that the assessment
is the subject of a valid appeal on any other grounds.

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

Are you ready to answer the questions I put to you earlier in the week dxh?

I've been waiting with baited breath on your reply.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84175116&postcount=410

The only question I see is about what EK said in 1994. I will have to check that one out and come back to you, I haven't heard of it before. Don't wait with bated breath though.

I'm not sure but I think you made a nod to logic there in accepting that there is a property tax in the North. Just to confirm that there is and it is based on the value of the property, here is the link to the agency that collects it. I think your assumption that the tax would be mostly on family homes, here and in NI is probably correct.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/what-are-rates.htm

What are rates?

Rates are a property tax based on the valuation of your home. The income from rates provides funding for services at both local (your council) and regional (NI Assembly) levels.


The next advance would be to get the many SF volunteers here to accept that, but it's unlikely since the party is pushing the fantasy that there is no property tax. And then they might accept that it pays for only a small element of services. So the next time the big long list comes out just read 20% of the cost of before each item. That's probably roughly what they get for their average £1000.

Judge them by their actions not their words. They have had years to do away with the property tax they inherited but they did nothing. If they (as part of a coalition) inherit a property tax here why should anyone believe their cynical promise to abolish it?

You are also living in fantasy land if you think the LPT is going off the statute books, regardless of any possible repecussions of the CPA vote.

johnory1

Can anyone tell me why I should pay property tax?because I just can't see the positives.
Btw saying it's a legal tax is not an answer.

paddy147

johnory1 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why I should pay property tax?because I just can't see the positives.
Btw saying it's a legal tax is not an answer.

Because you will be getting all your bins collected for you on a weekly basis as part of the tax, and you will have water included as part of the PT.




Oh no wait...this is Ireland right???.....................:pac::rolleyes:

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

bated

ah FFS bud, whatever else you do, please dont lower yourself to correcting spelling.

dxhound2005

paddy147 wrote: »

Because you will be getting all your bins collected for you on a weekly basis as part of the tax, and you will have water included as part of the PT.




Oh no wait...this is Ireland right???.....................:pac::rolleyes:

Could be England. Oh no wait you pay property tax there and then you have to pay two other charges for water and sewerage services. Coming soon to another part of the UK I predict.

darkhorse

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Why? Because this FG are nothing more than a bunch of thugs who think they can steam-roll over the average joe soap.

They refuse point blank to raise the tax rate for the higher paid, and afaik, they threatened ( I think past tense is correct for now?) to make tax alterations to recoup the money upon the failure of CP2. They also threatened to throw the MIGHT of Revenue on the average joe soap to get the LPT - they can legislate to delve into OUR bank accounts, but can't legislate to reduce govt. pensions ??? WTF are they trying to fool??
Heavens help us!!!

[IMG]http://irish*****.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/fine-gael-poster.jpg?w=700&h=[/IMG]

Phoebas

johnory1 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why I should pay property tax?because I just can't see the positives.
Btw saying it's a legal tax is not an answer.

I know.
I get the very same feeling when that nice lady in Tesco asks me to pay my groceries bill.

bgrizzley

Phoebas wrote: »

I know.
I get the very same feeling when that nice lady in Tesco asks me to pay my groceries bill.

do you walk out the door with the groceries? or do you have to purchase them a second time at Supervalu on the way home?

F.J.

One of the headlines in yesterdays papers was a soldier had been
charged the property tax on the base he works in!

paddy147

bgrizzley wrote: »

do you walk out the door with the groceries? or do you have to purchase them a second time at Supervalu on the way home?

Some people may even go through the large waste bins in said supermarkets to get good food that has been discarded for free.

I fear that this practice will actually increase as time goes by and people gets more and more fcuked over and out of their money by the goverment.

Phoebas

bgrizzley wrote: »

do you walk out the door with the groceries? or do you have to purchase them a second time at Supervalu on the way home?

Bad analogy is bad.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Could be England. Oh no wait you pay property tax there and then you have to pay two other charges for water and sewerage services. Coming soon to another part of the UK I predict.

What about bins collection and visits to the Doctor and perscriptions, not to mention if you are clearing out your house or any big items to be thrown out, you may, in N.I. or U.K. bring it to the council skip, which is included in your rates payment. Where I'm living, it cost almost €400 to hire a skip.

bgrizzley

Phoebas wrote: »

Bad analogy is bad.

I know. You should edit it.

darkhorse

Phoebas wrote: »

I know.
I get the very same feeling when that nice lady in Tesco asks me to pay my groceries bill.

Does that nice lady demand that you pay every year for the groceries you bought 20 years ago? I'm pretty sure that this family home tax is gonna a recurring tax.

Zebra3

johnory1 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why I should pay property tax?because I just can't see the positives.
Btw saying it's a legal tax is not an answer.

So we can give loads of money to those lovable, but poor, unfortunate bondholders and bankers.

And to prove we are Europe's bitch.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The only question I ee is about what EK said in 1994. I will have to check that one out and come back to you, I haven't heard of it before. Don't wait with bated breath though.

Seeing as your such an avid follower of rules and regulations, I'm surprised that you hadn't noticed that spelling corrections were against the charter dxh. It's usually the first sign of someone losing an argument when that's what they resort to.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm not sure but I think you made a nod to logic there in accepting that there is a property tax in the North. Just to confirm that there is and it is based on the value of the property, here is the link to the agency that collects it. I think your assumption that the tax would be mostly on family homes, here and in NI is probably correct.

Can you point me towards a single post in this thread where I have ever denied that there was rates in the North. What I keep denying, or correcting you would be much more accurate, on your constant misnamed term of the 'SF home tax'

dxhound2005 wrote: »

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/what-are-rates.htm

What are rates?

Rates are a property tax based on the valuation of your home. The income from rates provides funding for services at both local (your council) and regional (NI Assembly) levels.

For the benefit of people not aware, and in the name of fairness, I really think you should have listed what they get for their rates.

What do your rates pay for?

Your rates are made up of the district rate and the regional rate.

District rate

The district rate is fixed annually by each council and the rate will vary from council to council. Income from the district rate is used to meet the costs of providing a range of services. We provide a range of council services such as:
bin collections and recycling
leisure centres
parks
events
council venues
street cleaning
economic indicatives
building control.

Find out what other services we provide

Regional rate

The regional rate is set by central government. Income from the regional rate is used to meet the costs of providing services like:
education
health
personal social services
housing
roads
sewerage
water.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The next advance would be to get the many SF volunteers here to accept that, but it's unlikely since the party is pushing the fantasy that there is no property tax.

can you give me a link in which they deny there are rates up North?

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And then they might accept that it pays for only a small element of services. So the next time the big long list comes out just read 20% of the cost of before each item. That's probably roughly what they get for their average £1000.

Seems like a pretty good deal then.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Judge them by their actions not their words. They have had years to do away with the property tax they inherited but they did nothing. If they (as part of a coalition) inherit a property tax here why should anyone believe their cynical promise to abolish it?

I'll answer that when you get back to me as to why Enda introduced a tax he himself said was a morally wrong, unjust and unfair tax.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are also living in fantasy land if you think the LPT is going off the statute books, regardless of any possible repecussions of the CPA vote.

So I'll ask you the same question as DNC. you'll presumably be ok if the govt introduces legislation to cut the wages and pensions of every ps worker across the board?

If it's the law, you'll hardly complain.

Phoebas

darkhorse wrote: »

Does that nice lady demand that you pay every year for the groceries you bought 20 years ago? I'm pretty sure that this family home tax is gonna a recurring tax.

... to fund recurring services



(.... and those unnamed fictional German billionaires that I hear people going on about :pac:)

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

... to fund recurring services



(.... and those unnamed fictional German billionaires that I hear people going on about :pac:)

What does income tax and vat fund?

Phoebas

SamHall wrote: »

What does income tax and vat fund?

You don't know?

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

You don't know?

I thought I did. I thought they funded the services you listed.

Phoebas

SamHall wrote: »

I thought I did. I thought they funded the services you listed.

Well, you're on the right track.
They fund a wide range of services, including a contribution to local services. The lpt also contributes to local services.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

Well, you're on the right track.
They fund a wide range of services, including a contribution to local services. The lpt also contributes to local services.

In short.

Income tax needs to be raised. And/or a third tax band needs introduced.