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RTE & the property tax

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    #212
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Slick50 wrote: »
    From the journalRevenue have exactly, the same problem as local councils, no data base. As long as enough people hold out, they have a nigh on impossible task. It would be far easier to collect if they just increased PAYE, and/or introduced a third tier of tax for higher earners.
    Revenue have been sending LPT letters to their best guess as to who owns each property.
    If those people don't tell Revenue that they don't own the property then the tax becomes due from that person. So, the database will be compiled fairly easily as people tell Revenue that they don't own property and Revenue move on to their next best guess..... So this is very different from the LPT.

    If you think this tax will be defeated by the lack of a comprehensive database you need to have a rethink.


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    #213
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    maybe if they take me to court, (and thats only a maybe) but thats about it...

    On the subject of the courts does anyone remember the mad summons from the landlord in Mayo challenging the HHC in the High Court? Well it has been struck out as anyone with an ounce of wit would have predicted. Not much publicity on this one either. He will get his day in court now when his prosecution goes ahead.


    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17318:high-court-strikes-out-household-charge-challenge&catid=23:news&Itemid=46


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    #214
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    If i may, ill just add the bus timetable to DXs link also, (:)).

    http://nohouseholdtax.org/list-of-buses-for-the-rally-on-april13th/

    It's strange that the march will be on after the EU Finance Ministers have all gone home . The Dublin Ecofin meeting is on Friday 8 - 6 but on Saturday its 9 to 12.30. Maybe they were'nt allowed to march while the EU ministers were in Dublin Castle?


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    #215
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    i dont have either, (and that still wouldnt make me pay:eek:)
    Good for you. Normal Revenue collection methods will apply to you along with the interest and penalties.

    I hope you don't ever need a tax clearance cert.


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    #216
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Phoebas wrote: »

    I hope you don't ever need a tax clearance cert.

    *Overheard in Bertie's local


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    #217
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    On the subject of the courts does anyone remember the mad summons from the landlord in Mayo challenging the HHC in the High Court? Well it has been struck out as anyone with an ounce of wit would have predicted. Not much publicity on this one either. He will get his day in court now when his prosecution goes ahead.


    Was also mentioned here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/hight-court-challenge-to-household-charge-failed.html

    Strange that the "major" media didn't report on it .


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    #218
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Good for you. Normal Revenue collection methods will apply to you along with the interest and penalties.

    I hope you don't ever need a tax clearance cert.


    they may bill me for it when i file, but outside of what i owe them in the normal course of things, they wont recieve it or any penalties associated with it.

    And i wont. :D

    inb4 audit(i welcome it)


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    #219
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Slick50 wrote: »

    From the journalRevenue have exactly, the same problem as local councils, no data base. As long as enough people hold out, they have a nigh on impossible task. It would be far easier to collect if they just increased PAYE, and/or introduced a third tier of tax for higher earners.

    Exactly.

    I got the letter yesterday, addressed to me perfectly, and they even had my middle name spot on.

    I opened the letter, laughed at the valuation, and then used the letter to light the stove with after my dinner;)

    I'm quite happy to sit it out and play the waiting game (like I did with the HHC, and I've never received a thing about that:D)



    Phoebas wrote: »
    Revenue have been sending LPT letters to their best guess as to who owns each property.
    If those people don't tell Revenue that they don't own the property then the tax becomes due from that person. So, the database will be compiled fairly easily as people tell Revenue that they don't own property and Revenue move on to their next best guess..... So this is very different from the LPT.

    If you think this tax will be defeated by the lack of a comprehensive database you need to have a rethink.

    I remember a few posters on other threads urging people to reguister for the HHC, even if they were not eligoible due to unfinished estates etc.

    How many of those estates are now deemed finished/eligible for the tax, even though a bulider has not been on site since 06/07 (nor county council to mantain it either)

    I'm sure there must be a lot of people in those estates that feel quite cheated and angry at the govt now.:cool:


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    #220
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    SamHall wrote: »
    Exactly.

    I got the letter yesterday, addressed to me perfectly, and they even had my middle name spot on.

    I opened the letter, laughed at the valuation, and then used the letter to light the stove with after my dinner;)

    I'm quite happy to sit it out and play the waiting game (like I did with the HHC, and I've never received a thing about that:D)

    Too high or too low?


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    #221
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SamHall wrote: »
    Exactly.

    I got the letter yesterday, addressed to me perfectly, and they even had my middle name spot on.

    I opened the letter, laughed at the valuation, and then used the letter to light the stove with after my dinner;)

    I'm quite happy to sit it out and play the waiting game (like I did with the HHC, and I've never received a thing about that:D)






    I remember a few posters on other threads urging people to reguister for the HHC, even if they were not eligoible due to unfinished estates etc.

    How many of those estates are now deemed finished/eligible for the tax, even though a bulider has not been on site since 06/07 (nor county council to mantain it either)

    I'm sure there must be a lot of people in those estates that feel quite cheated and angry at the govt now.:cool:

    If you want to play the waiting game the other side have lot of time too.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/10812/b10812d.pdf

    123.—Any local property tax, interest referred to in section 149 or
    other monetary penalty amount which is due and unpaid by a liable
    person shall be and remain a charge on the relevant residential property
    to which it relates.

    124.—Notwithstanding section 36 of the Statute of Limitations
    1957, the charge referred to in section 123 shall continue to apply
    without a time limit until such time as it is paid in full.


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    #222
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Revenue have been sending LPT letters to their best guess as to who owns each property.
    If those people don't tell Revenue that they don't own the property then the tax becomes due from that person. So, the database will be compiled fairly easily as people tell Revenue that they don't own property and Revenue move on to their next best guess..... So this is very different from the LPT.

    If you think this tax will be defeated by the lack of a comprehensive database you need to have a rethink.

    They have been shooting in the dark, same as the local councils did. This is no easy task, it will be very time consuming and inefficient. This government probably don't have that kind of time.

    Aside... DV Power used to address whichever points he liked, and just ignored awkward questions.


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    #223
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Slick50 wrote: »
    They have been shooting in the dark, same as the local councils did. This is no easy task, it will be very time consuming and inefficient. This government probably don't have that kind of time.
    Do you honestly think that this tax is going to be defeated? Or that people who just ignore it will get away with it?
    Slick50 wrote: »
    Aside... DV Power used to address whichever points he liked, and just ignored awkward questions.
    Eh. OK, thanks for that :confused:


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    #224
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    Here's an article written by the guy that Ben is pushing... you give Ben money, you get this "sovereign citizens" book.

    http://i.imgur.com/fxxAg6V.png

    Check out the co-author.

    In your own words, what is so unbelievable about this article?


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    #225
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    darkhorse wrote: »
    In your own words, what is so unbelievable about this article?
    Ok Darkhorse, it must have been fun pulling our legs like that, but you've gone too far too soon.
    You should have built up slowly and incrementally, but you couldn't help yourself and dropped the motherland too soon.


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    #226
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Do you honestly think that this tax is going to be defeated?
    If enough people hold out, it can be made a big enough issue come the next election, that it will be part of wannabes manifesto's to repeal it.
    Phoebas wrote: »
    Or that people who just ignore it will get away with it?
    Ignoring it is the only way we have to fight it, if it is repealed, yes we will get away with it.

    It is a gamble, but the alternative it to stump up and look happy, when the men in power got there by lying to us, and then turning around to sh*t on us.


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    #227
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    darkhorse wrote: »
    In your own words, what is so unbelievable about this article?

    You are what's called a "perfect mark".


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    #228
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    Here's an article written by the guy that Ben is pushing... you give Ben money, you get this "sovereign citizens" book.

    http://i.imgur.com/fxxAg6V.png

    Check out the co-author.

    I'm still a bit in the dark. Do ya mean to tell us that Ben is asking people for money, and just who is he asking? I'm really genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of this, and if you have some information, could you share it with us.


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    #229
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    darkhorse wrote: »
    I'm still a bit in the dark. Do ya mean to tell us that Ben is asking people for money, and just who is he asking? I'm really genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of this, and if you have some information, could you share it with us.

    I assume you've never been to his website then. Informed voter are you?


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    #230
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    And btw.

    If you don't think this is nuts, then you're pretty much in the minority:

    https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/door-notice.jpg

    Note that it's HOSTED on his PEJ site. Note also that's its full of "sovereign citizen" BS and he even calls himself "sovereign".

    All of that is crazy. Like mentally ill.

    OR

    He's part of their scam.

    He MIGHT have been seen to just be an idiot, until he went and lied about it on RTE, and then CONTINUED to try and pull his Freeman crap AFTER the RTE interview.

    Sure ask the Irish Law Society, who already exposed him, or ask the Phoenix Magazine, which just ran a piece on this last Friday...

    He better have a good lawyer, because he's gonna need to sue a lot of people... including the other parties who WILL be hitting him with this the next election they put a candidate in.

    Anyone could have had that printed.


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    #231
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Anyone could have had that printed.

    What are you claiming now?


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    #232
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Too high or too low?

    Laughed at revenue placing a value on my home (which isn't for sale)

    When did revenue become auctioneers/assessors?

    The gas thing is, if you want to appeal, you've apparently to pay up first, then your appeal will be heard.

    Reminds me in the old "resister even if your house is exempt" line.

    Loads of people fooled by the hhc won't get fooled again.

    Revenue will be waiting and waiting on me to pay. I can assure you of that one. ;)


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    #233
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    If you want to play the waiting game the other side have lot of time too.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/10812/b10812d.pdf

    123.—Any local property tax, interest referred to in section 149 or
    other monetary penalty amount which is due and unpaid by a liable
    person shall be and remain a charge on the relevant residential property
    to which it relates.

    124.—Notwithstanding section 36 of the Statute of Limitations
    1957, the charge referred to in section 123 shall continue to apply
    without a time limit until such time as it is paid in full.

    I keep telling you that FF and SF will pledge to abolish the tax in return for votes in the next general election, that could come around as soon as this year the way labour are going.

    The labour party almost accept that they're history now....

    Gilmore may pull the pin on the coalition in a vain attempt to retain some seats and credibility.


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    #234
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    SamHall wrote: »
    I keep telling you that FF and SF will pledge to abolish the tax in return for votes in the next general election, that could come around as soon as this year the way labour are going.

    The labour party almost accept that they're history now....

    Gilmore may pull the pin on the coalition in a vain attempt to retain some seats and credibility.

    some people still havent figured out how politics works Sam. if FF had brought in the tax before they got booted, FG would have been promising to get rid of it to get their snouts in the gravy boat...


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    #235
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    PUH-leeze do....

    Then have him explain why he's giving away this guys book:



    Then ask him about his ties to a group that the FBI considers to be terrorists.

    http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/april/sovereigncitizens_041310

    And ask him why he pretends to be confused about why people would associate him with freemen, when HE CALLS THEM AND ASKS THEM TO SHOW UP TO HIS MEDIA EVENTS.

    Or maybe you don't think Freeman ****e is crazy?

    In which case you yerself are a nutter.

    Here's what one of the biggest newspapers in the south says about his cult:



    http://www.commercialappeal.com/sovereign-nation/

    Everyone but you is a nutter? Little paranoid don't you think?

    You're on here advocating people should pay this tax knowing full well that its the wrong thing to do. Of course this this will be scrapped in the next election.

    And whats next? When will you figure out that theres not enough idiots out there, not enough cash in the country to keep pissing against the wall ?


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    #236
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Everyone but you is a nutter? Little paranoid don't you think?

    You're on here advocating people should pay this tax knowing full well that its the wrong thing to do. Of course this this will be scrapped in the next election.

    And whats next? When will you figure out that theres not enough idiots out there, not enough cash in the country to keep pissing against the wall ?

    So you're siding with the same group that the OKC Bomber belonged too?

    Maybe you should ask the leader of the Montana Freeman, who came up with the term Freeman, how it worked out for him, these beliefs.

    Oh wait, you can't. He died in federal prison.

    Maybe ask the white supremacist that devolved the whole sovereign citizens thing? Oh you can't. He died in prison as well.

    But sure.

    These guys aren't nutters.

    The next time you visit the US, make sure you tell the immigration guy that you think Freeman are A-OK.

    Let us know how that works out.


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    #237
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SamHall wrote: »
    I keep telling you that FF and SF will pledge to abolish the tax in return for votes in the next general election, that could come around as soon as this year the way labour are going.

    The labour party almost accept that they're history now....

    Gilmore may pull the pin on the coalition in a vain attempt to retain some seats and credibility.

    So you keep saying but what if you are wrong? SF have proved themselves to be very enthustiastic tax collectors in the North. What if the next government finds that the markets are not minded to lend to an administration which would ditch a form of taxation which is part of the normal mix internationally. One which provides a guaranteed income stream and is hard to evade. And that is assuming that the Troika will be gone, they certainly wouldn't let it happen.

    If you are sure this government will fall by July you could make yourself a few euros down the bookies.


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    #238
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    some people still havent figured out how politics works Sam. if FF had brought in the tax before they got booted, FG would have been promising to get rid of it to get their snouts in the gravy boat...

    Or dxhound and Co would be on here telling us all how immoral and unjust it was to tax a family home.


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    #239
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    darkhorse wrote: »
    Do you believe in Freemanism?

    No I don't.


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    #240
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    darkhorse wrote: »
    MilanPan!c wrote: »

    No I don't.

    Then don't vote for the freeman party. Simple as....


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    #241
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SamHall wrote: »
    Or dxhound and Co would be on here telling us all hope immoral and unjust it was to tax a family home.

    Hope springs eternal but I don't think it has any place in that sentence.


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