Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

HondaSami

what is the name? how is it wrong?

Matt Simis

Why is she in a Gaelscoil at all then? Im not on for them, but that seems part and parcel of the "deal". She/You should also find out what your actual Irish name is and not some reverse Anglicisation "sounds like" nonsense.

For Forks Sake

MadsL wrote: »

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil

What does AH think?

the answer in in the question.

Wibbs

Well if its not her actual name and I was one of her parents then I'd be telling them politely to GTFO, regardless of the language involved.

Turtyturd

Just call her teachers made up names during any interactions you have with them.

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

what is the name? how is it wrong?

Errm not posting her name online but a close comparison would be.if a boy were called John being called Eoin.

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

Had the same experience in school. A lot of Irish teachers seem politically motivated, usually I would suggest going over their heads but this is an Irish language school so I don't know. I suppose the best thing you could do is ring the principal and politely but firmly admonish the him(her) for allowing this to happen. Best of luck anyway OP.

Irish_wolf

If it was someone called James, and the teacher insisted on calling them Seamus, and the student didn't like it. I would probably say well why did you send them to a gaelscoil.

That being said if it is actually a wrong name and it is upsetting her you might want to get in contact with the school.

Gatling

MadsL wrote: »

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

Well its a gaelscoil after all ,
,
I'll have the same problem my daughers name doesn't translate to Irish when spelt with a capital letter ,but in normal letter at the start of her name you get a total different translation ,
I suggest talking with the teacher and explain there translation is wrong

Rayne Wooney

Seeing as she's in an Irish secondary school I don't see the problem of her being called by her Irish name as I suspect she's not the only one, they're not singling her out. If it's the wrong one get the proper translation and tell the principal.

If it really upsets her that much you should go straight into the principal and ask him/her to get it to stop. Simple as that really.

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

Errm not posting her name online but a close comparison would be.if a boy were called John being called Eoin.

That would be correct. Bad example.

SEPT 23 1989

First step in the brainwashing process:D

MadsL

For Forks Sake wrote: »

the answer in in the question.

Does she not get the right to have a say in how her name is pronounced as a consequence of having an education through Irish?

Defiler Of The Coffin

I don't think it's that a big a deal really.

muckisluck

MadsL wrote: »

Errm not posting her name online but a close comparison would be.if a boy were called John being called Eoin.

Why wouldn't a boy be called Eoin as a translation for John. It is actually correct!

MadsL

endacl wrote: »

That would be correct. Bad example.

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

Yeh, I don't get it.

Your name is your name, regardless of language. Change the language and it's not your name any more.

Iwasfrozen

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

I don't think it's that a big a deal really.

Identity is a huge deal.

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

Errm not posting her name online but a close comparison would be.if a boy were called John being called Eoin.

Fair enough but without knowing the name it's hard to know how it's wrong.
If they are calling her a completely different name then i would insist they correct it, how long is this going on ?

Riamfada

My first name is English and my surname is Scottish. They used to stick an "O" in between and a fada on a few vowels and pronounce it like the walking dead talk.

Hilarious, my name is my name. Germans dont call me "Hans"

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

What is the Irish for John? Is this what the problem is, they are calling her the Irish version of her name?

Gatling

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Identity is a huge deal.

Yes but in a gaelscoil everything is identified in Gaelic so its right to be called or addressed in irish

Seachmall

I don't think it makes sense to translate a name. Your name is your name regardless of language.


Seems pretentious to me, and I can see why it would be annoying.

The_Nipper_One

I don't think she should have to put up with it.

Object names are translated into another language because they are a kind of identifying common linguistic description of something.
The name you give a person is more abstract than that, a Michael is no less or more a Michael than someone named Kevin, but a fork is never an apple. (I really hope that made sense.)

Do they translate all the names of cities all over the planet into an Irish form as well?

Rayne Wooney

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

Do they translate all the names of cities all over the planet into an Irish form as well?

Yes.

Iwasfrozen

Gatling wrote: »

Yes but in a gaelscoil everything is identified in Gaelic so its right to be called or addressed in irish

Proper nouns like names don't translate. If I was in France my name wouldn't be translated.

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

Fair enough but without knowing the name it's hard to know how it's wrong.
If they are calling her a completely different name then i would insist they correct it, how long is this going on ?

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

No sorry but that's just going too far. Contact the school and have them stop, enough is enough.

Rayne Wooney

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

Have you ever gone in to the principal? Seems like one meeting with a parent could resolve this.

robinph

If the kids went to a school in France or Germany would their name be changed by the teachers? Might get pronounced badly, but the name would not change.

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

I can't see how it will cause problems with emigration, Is her passport in Irish or English?
Is the Irish version they are using the same one you would use?

The_Nipper_One

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes.

Oh really?

What's the Irish for Yike Nalin?

Scortho

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

My name is Sean o c in irish. I don't mind if people call me by my name in irish. In fact I hated when people didn't when we were speaking in irish.
Whatever about your issue If it was a non gaelscoil and it was an irish teacher and your daughter didn't like it fair enough but when she's going to a gaelscoil it's kinda expected.
Simple solution:don't send the next child to a gaelscoil if the name being put into irish bothers you so much.
Out of curiosity however is it just a random name they've assigned to her or is it her own name in irish. For example if her name is Catherine and they call her Caitlin fair enough.
If her name is Jane and they call her Caitlin then you have a case to make.

I thought only people with a love for irish sent their kids to gaelscoileanna?

Taco Chips

I think she should stop being a pussy and just get on with it. Honestly of all things that can go wrong in secondary school this is pretty low on this list. If the issue is she doesn't like the Gaeilge of the name, don't go to a Gaelscoil. If the issue is that the translation isn't accurate just correct it.

Your name is your name; as has been pointed out, you don't get called a different one when you go abroad and they have another language. Contact the school and have this cleared up and her docs corrected.

MadsL

Gatling wrote: »

Yes but in a gaelscoil everything is identified in Gaelic so its right to be called or addressed in irish

But it is not her name. Would you expect to be called Ricardo in Spain rather than Richard? Your name is an important part of your identity.

Jamey

Riamfada wrote: »

My first name is English and my surname is Scottish. They used to stick an "O" in between and a fada on a few vowels and pronounce it like the walking dead talk.

Hilarious, my name is my name. Germans dont call me "Hans"

Ha, I'm exact same. English first name and Scottish second name.

In primary school my teachers would put an Ó' in front of my second name. Then in secondary school the teachers scrapped the Ó' and replaced an "f" with a "bh" and stuck in a pointless "ú" for good measure. Every teacher had a different take on what my Irish name should be.

Although Irish wasn't as bad as Spanish in primary school for being rechristened. We did it in 5th and 6th class and were basically all given random Spanish names that had no connection whatsoever to our real names. One lad called David even got to choose his, and chose Raúl after the famous footballer.

This goes on a lot in Asia when children are learning English in primary school apparently. Some friends who have come back from teaching English in Korea have taught students named "Wayne Rooney". One particular boy who was very interested in technology called himself "Samsung Jobs"!

MadsL

Taco Chips wrote: »

I think she should stop being a pussy and just get on with it. Honestly of all things that can go wrong in secondary school this is pretty low on this list. If the issue is she doesn't like the Gaeilge of the name, don't go to a Gaelscoil. If the issue is that the translation isn't accurate just correct it.

She shouldn't get the best education available to her because this irritates her? Really?

Rayne Wooney

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not her name. Would you expect to be called Ricardo in Spain rather than Richard? Your name is an important part of your identity.

It's Ristéard in Irish though?

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

I don't disagree. Just being pedantic. The John/Seán common mistake might have illustrated the point a little more clearly though.

In the example you gave though, and if this is actually a battle worth fighting (you did sign the child up for a gaelscoil education, after all. As gaeilge...), perhaps if the child responded to the teachers each time he was addressed by the ainm as gaeilge, he were to respond 'John is ainm dom' and just continue from there?

Or does this seem a little....... silly? A little first-world-problematic?

Scortho

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

Oh really?

What's the Irish for Yike Nalin?

Yike nalin. Chances are they won't do anything to that name as its nowhere near an irish name.

MadsL

Scortho wrote: »

My name is Sean o c in irish. I don't mind if people call me by my name in irish. In fact I hated when people didn't when we were speaking in irish.
Whatever about your issue If it was a non gaelscoil and it was an irish teacher and your daughter didn't like it fair enough but when she's going to a gaelscoil it's kinda expected.
Simple solution:don't send the next child to a gaelscoil if the name being put into irish bothers you so much.
Out of curiosity however is it just a random name they've assigned to her or is it her own name in irish. For example if her name is Catherine and they call her Caitlin fair enough.
If her name is Jane and they call her Caitlin then you have a case to make.

I thought only people with a love for irish sent their kids to gaelscoileanna?

I thought I made it plain that these were my daughter's views???

Why is it an either/or choice?

Taco Chips

MadsL wrote: »

She shouldn't get the best education available to her because this irritates her? Really?

Or she should make a very minor compromise to get the best education available to her. What's your point?

endacl

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's Ristéard in Irish though?

Gan fada. Risteard.

See? Bi-lingually pedantic!

Jarrod

I think you've a fair grievance there OP. When I was in school we'd a number of foreign people in the year and there names were never translated into English, nor should they be. If Pierre comes from Paris and joins an English speaking school why the hell would his name suddenly become Peter?

Some kids have enough bullsh*t to deal with in school without feeling like they've to battle with their teachers too.

HondaSami

Jarrod wrote: »

I think you've a fair grievance there OP. When I was in school we'd a number of foreign people in the year and there names were never translated into English, nor should they be. If Pierre comes from Paris and joins an English speaking school why the hell would his name suddenly become Peter?

Some kids have enough bullsh*t to deal with in school without feeling like they've to battle with their teachers too.

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

MadsL

Taco Chips wrote: »

Or she should make a very minor compromise to get the best education available to her. What's your point?

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

MurdyWurdy

I wouldn't be too happy about it, tbh but maybe that's just how they do things. If they do it for everyone then I guess she's not being singled out.

I knew a girl called Joy who went to a convent school for a while, the nuns refused to call her her name because it was a pagan name and instead called her a female saints name - whichever one's day was closest to the day they were speaking to her. That to me is even weirder.

The_Nipper_One

Scortho wrote: »

Yike nalin. Chances are they won't do anything to that name as its nowhere near an irish name.

That's my point. A name is a name, it is assigned to an entity and is specific to that entity.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Identity is a huge deal.

Identity is. Being called by your Irish name in a Gaelscoil isn't IMO