Tblisi Cup. June 2013. "Emerging Ireland"

Grimebox

Was there another SA try at the end there or was that a replay? Score?

croket

13-3 for South African President's XV

Larbre34

croket wrote: »

13-3 for South African President's XV

No sign of them about to die a death anyway.....

Taxi!

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

No sign of them about to die a death anyway.....

Taxi!

wtf

accidentprone1

anyone else's stream gone to ****?

NU8

accidentprone1 wrote: »

anyone else's stream gone to ****?

Yes

.ak

Tis the source broadcast

Cormic

No penalty try?

ConFurioso

That was surely a penalty try if he deemed it worth a yellow? A yard more and we were over the try line....

ConFurioso

Nice. Should be 10-16 now, pending conversion.

Goddamn it. Keatley misses a sitter, 8-16.

molloyjh

Ah here now come on. Ireland with a massively dominant scrum on the line, SA lose their TH to the bin and the stream has gone to pot. Thankfully we saw the try. Well done Allen. Great work from the pack for it.

Buer

Not watching. Does this mean Bent and McGrath are showing up well in the scrum throughout?

Cormic

Well worked try there but Keatly missed conversion.

.ak

A'boy Allen!

Piliger

Did Keatley miss that kick ????????? FFS how did he manage that ?

NU8

Buer wrote: »

Not watching. Does this mean Bent and McGrath are showing up well in the scrum throughout?

McGrath in particular has been very solid in the scrums. Keatley has missed a few in this game and against Georgia.

Fireball07

Strange from Keatley, try was good though.

.ak

Buer wrote: »

Not watching. Does this mean Bent and McGrath are showing up well in the scrum throughout?

Yeah we've been dominant in the scrum all game.

armchaircoach

He's not having a good day from the tee. But that set of scrums was very encouraging

accidentprone1

Keatley misses a sitter.

Grimebox

One of the commentators laughed and he sounded just like Jabba the Hutt. I can't hear anything else now

Piliger

Keatley playing himself out of any chance of caps next season. Nothing he does matters if he can't deliver with the boot.

Piliger

Piliger wrote: »

Keatley playing himself out of any chance of caps next season. Nothing he does matters if he can't deliver with the boot.

sigh. When will people realise just how flawed this rationale is.

Especially considering he's a great kicker.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/rhino_golden_boot.php

78% in Rabo

.ak

Piliger wrote: »

Keatley playing himself out of any chance of caps next season. Nothing he does matters if he can't deliver with the boot.

Why?

Sorry but I really hate this way of thinking. The 10 doesn't have to be the goal kicker.

Losty Dublin

ConFurioso wrote: »

That was surely a penalty try if he deemed it worth a yellow? A yard more and we were over the try line....

Why would it be?

Yellow cards are issued for foul play or repeated infringements. A penalty try is awarded if a probable try was thwarted by a deliberate infringement/s. There was 2 penalty calls from the scrum; that's hardly repeated

Sure we got the try off a back row move in the end.

ConFurioso

Feck! Great passage of play there.

Piliger

.ak wrote: »

Why?

Sorry but I really hate this way of thinking. The 10 doesn't have to be the goal kicker.

So if he is 10, who will kick ? and what would he offer that would be SO much better than his competition ? It's not about the 10 being a kicker at all.

.ak

Agh, bad timing...

Piliger

Piliger wrote: »

So if he is 10, who will kick ? and what would he offer that would be SO much better than his competition ? It's not about the 10 being a kicker at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Larkham

Piliger

Some terrific line breaks but again a butchered chance at an almost certain try.

NU8

That clock isn't being stopped right? Pretty sure against Georgia it went to the 89th minute or something.

Buer

The rationale should be, if he's the designated and only kicker and fails to deliver with the boot, he is majorly flawed. Unfortunately for him, he plays in Ireland where we're obsessed with the 10 kicking.

IK is a decent kicker. He's not great. He can have really good days but has some off ones too and they're not too rare, either. 78% in the Pro12 isn't anything to shout about. It's low pressure, lower profile rugby. He was 8/16 in the HEC this season, for example, which suggests there's more than meets the eye with his kicking.

Hagz

He's not good enough for international rugby anyway, regardless of his kicking. Not even a talking point imo.

Buer

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Why would it be?

Yellow cards are issued for foul play or repeated infringements. A penalty try is awarded if a probable try was thwarted by a deliberate infringement/s. There was 2 penalty calls from the scrum; that's hardly repeated

They're at the discretion of the referee and foul play covers pretty much everything in the game that is against the laws. Deliberately dropping a scrum to prevent a try, is foul play, for example.

JustinDee

NU8 wrote: »

That clock isn't being stopped right? Pretty sure against Georgia it went to the 89th minute or something.

Correct.

Piliger

Deleted User wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Larkham

He doesn't quality for Ireland.

Buer

Score? Doing a bit of nosing about and not too impressed by the opposition on paper. Made up of division 1 players from the Currie Cup. Not a bad standard but our pack and the likes of Keatley and DK should be a cut above.

Fireball07

Buer wrote: »

Score? Doing a bit of nosing about and not too impressed by the opposition on paper. Made up of division 1 players from the Currie Cup. Not a bad standard but our pack and the likes of Keatley and DK should be a cut above.

16-8 SA.


We've been okay, but the execution of the final pass has been poor...not being clinical enough, making mistakes inside their 22.


SA 9 looked very lively imo.

Cormic

Buer wrote: »

Score? Doing a bit of nosing about and not too impressed by the opposition on paper. Made up of division 1 players from the Currie Cup. Not a bad standard but our pack and the likes of Keatley and DK should be a cut above.

Ire 8 - 16 RSA.

We are being let down by handling errors.

Piliger

Piliger wrote: »

He doesn't quality for Ireland.

showed that an out half that can't kick can be a pretty useful member of a team.

A fairly complete one man dismissal of the statement

Piliger wrote:

Nothing he does matters if he can't deliver with the boot.

lfcjfc

.ak wrote: »

Why?

Sorry but I really hate this way of thinking. The 10 doesn't have to be the goal kicker.

While the 10 doesnt have to be the kicker, a 10 that cant kick complicates team selections. Decisions on players for other positions becomes dictated by who can kick. Instead of having a first choice 10 that can kick, you end up with a first choice 10 and eg a locked-in fullback that can kick - great if you happen to have Leigh 1/2p in your team.

croket

Final : SA 19 - 8 Ireland

Fireball07

Agus sin é.


Lost 19-8...bit of a disappointing result, it could be put down to a lack of cohesion though. Some poor mistakes in good areas, and defensively we looked a bit all over the place in the first half.


I thought Reid, Kearney, Nagle, Ruddock, Annett were all decent. Missed some of the 2nd half though.

Losty Dublin

Buer wrote: »

They're at the discretion of the referee and foul play covers pretty much everything in the game that is against the laws. Deliberately dropping a scrum to prevent a try, is foul play, for example.

Prevent a probable try, Buer, not a "we would have scored for sure if" try

lfcjfc

lfcjfc wrote: »

While the 10 doesnt have to be the kicker, a 10 that cant kick complicates team selections. Decisions on players for other positions becomes dictated by who can kick. Instead of having a first choice 10 that can kick, you end up with a first choice 10 and eg a locked-in fullback that can kick - great if you happen to have Leigh 1/2p in your team.

Well Keatley can kick. And kick well.

If he was the best 10 on the planet and couldn't kick, you'd let Murray wind up the points @ Munster, and Murray/McFadden/Kearney / Luke Marshall could all kick in green.

Murray should still be kept practising (and even given some responsibility the odd time) tbh, nothing wrong with having options on the pitch.

Piliger

Deleted User wrote: »

showed that an out half that can't kick can be a pretty useful member of a team.

A fairly complete one man dismissal of the statement

On the contrary it just reinforces my statement. Keatley has no overwhelming compensating skill, unlike Larkham. And unlike Aussie at the time we have players of equal or even far better ability at 10. So this thing about 10 is irrelevant and a red herring.

I actually like Keatley and would have given him a start ahead of Jackson in the 6 Nations. But it is deeply disappointing to a guy who is on a fringes of the national team being unable to perform in a match like this, with no real pressure. I now see no reason to give him a chance for the senior squad ahead of Madigan who has proved himself a far better kicker repeatedly.

Piliger

Piliger wrote:

Nothing he does matters if he can't deliver with the boot.

Does not mean "Ian Keatley is not good enough in other elements of his game to make up for his non-top class kicking".

---

I'm not going to get into it further. Your statement was a write-off of an outhalf because he wasn't kicking well. It is an argument that pops up time and time again because Irish rugby was blessed to have an outstanding kicker (who also played at 10) for so long. We've come to pair them both.

Rugby is a team sport. You pick the team most likely to win a game as a coach. Sometimes that means you play a guy who doesn't kick (see Crosbie in his second year @ U20s) because he adds a dimension to the backline that the 5* kicker can't.

There's no shame or issue with being a non-kicking 10. Larkham was one of the world's best out halves without being much use off the deck. We should have plenty of good footballers in our rugby teams, well able to kick goals. McFadden, Murray, Carr are all players that were prolific kickers and didn't play out half.

In any case. Keatley is a good kicker, still young (26) and is about to take the reigns at Munster for the coming season. Writing him off because he missed an easy kick in the Tiblisi Cup is a bit odd no?

Fireball07

Piliger wrote: »

On the contrary it just reinforces my statement. Keatley has no overwhelming compensating skill, unlike Larkham. And unlike Aussie at the time we have players of equal or even far better ability at 10. So this thing about 10 is irrelevant and a red herring.

I actually like Keatley and would have given him a start ahead of Jackson in the 6 Nations. But it is deeply disappointing to a guy who is on a fringes of the national team being unable to perform in a match like this, with no real pressure. I now see no reason to give him a chance for the senior squad ahead of Madigan who has proved himself a far better kicker repeatedly.

I reckon Keatley is actually a more consistent kicker than Jackson at the moment. But I don't think he's a better player currently, and wouldn't have had him ahead of either Madigan or Jackson for the 6N or now. Hopefully he can stake a claim next season though, they're all going to be starting every week.

TheKeenMachine

How were Cooney/Heaney can anyone tell me?

NU8

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

How were Cooney/Heaney can anyone tell me?

I thought both were good. Cooney's passing was consistently good and did the basics well. Would pick Cooney ahead of Heaney as I felt the speed of his passing helped our attack.