Court fines for cycling traffic offenses

DrMike

Court fines for cycling traffic offenses
A cyclist has been in touch with us in Dublin Cycling Campaign about how she ended up in the District Court recently having run a red light and was given a €300 fine for the infraction.


This seems a bit harsh when you consider that a driver is only facing a €80 fine and 2 penalty-points for the same offense under the fixed-charge system. http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Dr...s-of-offences/


A motor vehicle is capable of causing more carnage at a junction while running a red light than any cyclist.



We ask was the fine handed-down provided for by statute (SI) or did the DJ have discretion to impose any level of fine?


Anyone with legal expertise care to comment? Please cite Act or SI reference in any reply.

Kosseegan

First off, what were the charges? There are several possible charges which could be brought in the circumstances.
Without knowing the charges, background facts and demeanour in court it is impossible to give any comment.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

valleyoftheunos

Its not really accurate to compare a fine from the district court and a fixed penalty notice. a motorist in the DC would be facing a fine of at least €160 and 4 penalty points. I appreciate it's still less but you take my point.

It's not really possible to comment on the severity of the fine without knowing the exact circumstances of the offence.

DrMike

Thanks folks.

Yes, we understand that the DJ is sending a message and we agree with a fine. That's not at issue.

The question, that remains unanswered, is what is the appropriate quantum and is it set down in road traffic law that we can read?

valleyoftheunos

DrMike wrote: »

Thanks folks.

Yes, we understand that the DJ is sending a message and we agree with a fine. That's not at issue.

The question, that remains unanswered, is what is the appropriate quantum and is it set down in road traffic law that we can read?

Nobody can tell you the appropriate quantum without knowing exactly what happened. I would go so far as to say that €300 sounds quite high. The question I might ask is, was there an aggravating factor of some kind?

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Well,it needs urgent addressing.I`d suggest a €1,000 fine for cycling two abreast on secondary and main roads for starters.The sense of entitlement that has been encouraged among a new breed of cycling enthusiasts needs to be stamped out fast.

ScouseMouse

DrMike wrote: »

Court fines for cycling traffic offenses

A motor vehicle is capable of causing more carnage at a junction while running a red light than any cyclist.

And a cyclist who breaks a red light causing a collision, is way more likely than a car driver to be seriously injured.

I have seen this issue so many times, I welcome the judge "sending out a message"

kate.m

Darwin Spoiled Velvet wrote: »

Well,it needs urgent addressing.I`d suggest a €1,000 fine for cycling two abreast on secondary and main roads for starters.The sense of entitlement that has been encouraged among a new breed of cycling enthusiasts needs to be stamped out fast.

but that's not against the law?

the world wonders

Darwin Spoiled Velvet wrote: »

Well,it needs urgent addressing.I`d suggest a €1,000 fine for cycling two abreast on secondary and main roads for starters.

Hi, please have a watch of this video from the Road Safety Authority, you may find it informative on the subject of cyclists travelling two abreast.

ResearchWill

DrMike wrote: »

Court fines for cycling traffic offenses
A cyclist has been in touch with us in Dublin Cycling Campaign about how she ended up in the District Court recently having run a red light and was given a €300 fine for the infraction.


This seems a bit harsh when you consider that a driver is only facing a €80 fine and 2 penalty-points for the same offense under the fixed-charge system. http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Dr...s-of-offences/


A motor vehicle is capable of causing more carnage at a junction while running a red light than any cyclist.



We ask was the fine handed-down provided for by statute (SI) or did the DJ have discretion to impose any level of fine?


Anyone with legal expertise care to comment? Please cite Act or SI reference in any reply.

In answer to your question the Road Traffic Act 1961 sets out the penalty at section 102 for any offence which has no penalty. The current maximum penalty in a court under section 102 is €1000. There are regulations which make breaking a red light offence the original SI is S.I. No. 294/1964 — Road Traffic General Bye-Laws, 1964, and S.I. No. 182/1997 — Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997.

So the regs make the offence as the regs don't have a penalty then section 102 kicks in as amended most recently by the Fines Act 2010 and provides the maximum fine.

Fred Swanson

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ScouseMouse

Dont mean to derail the thread folks, but is it legal to cycle on a road and ignore the separate cycle lane. I see an accident waiting to happen every morning and one of these days, that guy is going to come to grief....

Fred Swanson

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ResearchWill

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The 1997 regs

"
(3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided."

Fred Swanson

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the world wonders

ResearchWill wrote: »

The 1997 regs

"
(3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided."

Your information is out of date.

ResearchWill

the world wonders wrote: »

Your information is out of date.

Sorry missed update which says

(4) A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track where—

(a) a cycle track is provided on a road, a portion of a road, or an area at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 021 (pedestrianised street or area) is provided, or
(b) a cycle track is a contra-flow cycle track where traffic sign number RUS 059 is provided and pedal cycles shall only be driven in a contra-flow direction on such track.

(5) (a) A mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along or across a cycle track on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 022 has been provided, save for the purposes of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place.
(b) A reference in paragraph (a) to driving along or across a cycle track shall include a reference to driving wholly or partly along or across a cycle trac

DrMike

We have a copy of the Summons Sheet now and it is under Art. 30 (1) of Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations of 1997.

Contrary to S. 35 (5) of the Road Traffic Act, 1994 gives the offence. S. 102 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961 (as amended by S. 18 of the Ropad Traffic Act, 2006) provides the penalty.

Interestingly the charge-sheet requires the accused to bring their Driving License and a copy to the Court. In my view this is ultra vires in this case which is a non-motorised vehicular offence.

Fred Swanson

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Chemical Burn

He is putting out a message the these muppets are not above the law like they seem to think they are. About time.

I think that Dublin bikes should be satellite-tracked (as you enter you take the bike out on your credit card) and ever time you go through a red light, speed for the location you are in or break any motoring offense, you automatically get the fine in the post genius !!

DrMike

Thanks for your help, Fred.

As Cyclist.ie we are due to meet with officials from DoTTAS road traffic law section soon to discuss a range of law changes to help promote cycling and to explore fixed-charges for cycling offences.

RandolphEsq

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Is that what he/she said?

ResearchWill

DrMike wrote: »

We have a copy of the Summons Sheet now and it is under Art. 30 (1) of Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations of 1997.

Contrary to S. 35 (5) of the Road Traffic Act, 1994 gives the offence. S. 102 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961 (as amended by S. 18 of the Ropad Traffic Act, 2006) provides the penalty.

Interestingly the charge-sheet requires the accused to bring their Driving License and a copy to the Court. In my view this is ultra vires in this case which is a non-motorised vehicular offence.

The regulations cover motor vehicles, pedal cycles and pedestrians. From the regs


(5) A reference to a vehicle in these Regulations shall, unless otherwise specified, mean a mechanically propelled vehicle (other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair) and a pedal cycle.

There is also the possibility of a driving ban for any offence under the road traffic acts. So the requirement to bring a driving licence if you have one is not an issue.

galwaycyclist

ResearchWill wrote: »

There is also the possibility of a driving ban for any offence under the road traffic acts. So the requirement to bring a driving licence if you have one is not an issue.

Interesting

So if a qualified driver commits such a traffic offence while cycling - then it may be open to court to endorse that driver's license (for motoring)?

If that started happening it might focus minds more than a EU300 fine - given that most adult cyclists are also drivers.

the culture of deference

I would like to see cyclists fined for wearing ear / head phones. Height of stupidity.

mcmoustache

the culture of deference wrote: »

I would like to see cyclists fined for wearing ear / head phones. Height of stupidity.

I'd rather just see fines for actual traffic offences and not for everything that might annoy someone.

Kosseegan

DrMike wrote: »

Court fines for cycling traffic offenses
A cyclist has been in touch with us in Dublin Cycling Campaign about how she ended up in the District Court recently having run a red light and was given a €300 fine for the infraction.


This seems a bit harsh when you consider that a driver is only facing a €80 fine and 2 penalty-points for the same offense under the fixed-charge system. http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Dr...s-of-offences/


A motor vehicle is capable of causing more carnage at a junction while running a red light than any cyclist.



We ask was the fine handed-down provided for by statute (SI) or did the DJ have discretion to impose any level of fine?


Anyone with legal expertise care to comment? Please cite Act or SI reference in any reply.

Every offence has to be looked at in context. Cycling through a red light at full speed at a junction with numerous pedestrians and motorised vehicles is reckless and dangerous.
Driving through a red light in an artic with no one there is a much less occurrence of the same offence.
A court takes all factors into account including the demeanour of the Defendant. Abusing the guards when caught will drive the fine up. Also the behaviour in court of the defendant will have a bearing. A cheeky and argumentative defendant will soon find that the fine will be higher. There was one judge, recently retired, who added the price of a suit onto the fine when defendants appeared in casual clothing. He had a policy "I can't make you wear a suit, but I can make you pay the price of one."

godtabh

Darwin Spoiled Velvet wrote: »

Well,it needs urgent addressing.I`d suggest a €1,000 fine for cycling two abreast on secondary and main roads for starters.The sense of entitlement that has been encouraged among a new breed of cycling enthusiasts needs to be stamped out fast.

Roads are not just for cars. Talk about sense of entitlement.

Nothing illegal about cycling two abreast

check_six

€300 seems high, like the kind of fine you'd get if you just didn't show up to the court.

As it was left to the judge's discretion it seems unusual that they chose to double the equivalent motor vehicle driving fine. I think that on the spot fines are the way forward to make it a bit clearer to all. It would also save court resources.

seamus

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So if a qualified driver commits such a traffic offence while cycling - then it may be open to court to endorse that driver's license (for motoring)?

Yes, absolutely. Not penalty points, but certainly endorsements.

Driving bans also can and have been handed out for offences while cycling.

I would encourage more of this kind of thing, but it's a long process. FPNs are the way to go.