No more SW communion/confirmation payments

paddy147

Mick ah wrote: »

Oh, and not making the payments will fix things? Get real. The bottom line is this: Play by the rules, or don't play at all.

We the people fúcked this country royally. How about we shut up moaning the situation and actually try and fix things. There are no magic bullets.

Getting rid of this payment for an expected expense is one step toward fixing the mess we're in. If the kids are really that upset by not getting a new dress for the occasion then things need to be examined. Is it about faith and spirituality or is it about spending money that isn't your's.

Mr Kenny and Mr Gilmore should get real,and very very fast too.


Hang on though...didnt Mr Kenny tell us all live on TV that...."You are not to blame for this"????


Hhmmm I think he did.

Well if not our fault Enda,then stop making us all pay for it.

Grow a set of balls and tell the bondholders to fcuk off,that they aint getting their money back anynmore.

Thats what happens when you have a gamble and lose.


Oh no but wait though,you cant do that,can you......because you completely fcuked that up too.:rolleyes:







On that note,I,ll bid you all a good afternoon.


Thanks for a lively debate

donegal_road

my cousin over-heard this in Dublin a couple of years ago..

'.. we were running late at the hairdressers, so we skipped the church and went straight to the restaurant'

That was a woman referring to her daughter's confirmation day.



*I wonder will this latest cut mean less people making their first communion and confirmation?

westies4ever

Yeah because its all Enda's fault isnt it? Nothing to do with the previous governments or the banks. or the global econominc crises for that matter. :rolleyes:

I suspect you're not even all that bothered about the communion/confirmation grant and are just on here to have a rant about how unfair life is. well poor you.

kylith

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I think people don't get the social issue on people with little money. They are actually bothered by not having a show of wealth. It isn't logical by any means but it is a social stigma.

Look at the runners on many homeless people and you will see they are quite expensive. A friend of mine works with them and they will go out of their way to get money to buy new runners over getting a bed in a hostel.

While to many people not in the situation it seems madness and we may think of junkies being rock bottom they actually have their own hierarchy and signs of poverty. The same applies to many groups and is no less applied in poorer groups. Nobody wants to be on the bottom rung of their social group.

BTW, it was not just for catholic ceremonies and other groups were paid too.

It is right it was removed.

I get the social stigma of being obviously poor, but those homeless people are being stupid: I will not give money to a beggar who is wearing more expensive clothes or shoes than I am. I shop in Pennys, and I'm sure as hell not giving any of what little I have to subsidise someone else's social standing via spending a week's rent in Footlocker, and I'd imagine that a lot of people would feel the same way.

paddy147

westies4ever wrote: »

Yeah because its all Enda's fault isnt it? Nothing to do with the previous governments or the banks. or the global econominc crises for that matter. :rolleyes:

I suspect you're not even all that bothered about the communion/confirmation grant and are just on here to have a rant about how unfair life is. well poor you.

Yep,they all have to struggle by on their massively inflated salaries and pensions.

But yet even though "its not our fault"........the innocent people and kids of Ireland are being absolutely hammed for it.and forced to pay for it all now.



Ah well,sure maybe the funeral grant will be the next allowence to go......who knows...




:pac::D

VinLieger

donegal_road wrote: »

my cousin over-heard this in Dublin a couple of years ago..

'.. we were running late at the hairdressers, so we skipped the church and went straight to the restaurant'

That was a woman referring to her daughter's confirmation day.



*I wonder will this latest cut mean less people making their first communion and confirmation?

This is the attiutude that is the problem, now i dont think everyone like that was receving the grant but maybe the removal of the grant will push the church to take back control of the ceremony and stop the commercialisation of it, and if it means more kids dont make their communions/confirmations i have no problem with that either, but that last part is just me being a selfish agnostic

paddy147

Have a nice day folks

wolfpawnat

Though I do not agree with the SW having to pay for things like that. It will hit poorer families and will instill deep resentment in children. If ever there was a way to show class-ism among children. Uniforms should be mandatory now to prevent young children being made feel shíte for things beyond their control.

Skid X

paddy147 wrote: »

So when is it time to say we pay too much tax??

When do you stop and say feck it,Im not going to pay any more taxes to this country?

If I had known it existed before it was reduced and then scrapped, I would have said "When the Social Welfare is handing out grants for Communions and Confirmations"

wexie

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Though I do not agree with the SW having to pay for things like that. It will hit poorer families and will instill deep resentment in children. If ever there was a way to show class-ism among children. Uniforms should be mandatory now to prevent young children being made feel shíte for things beyond their control.

And yes...that sucks for the kids, but should it not be up to the parents to teach them to deal with this? Because you know what : Life ain't fair and if it's not communion dresses it'll be something else.

One family might go on holidays to the Burj Al Arab in Dubai every Easter while the other family can't afford to paint hard boiled eggs. How do you propose to deal with this?

Or the fact that some parents might collect their kids in a brand new Merc while the other family has to make do with a 18 year old Fiat. Do you really think that the communion dress is going to make the difference?

topper75

They should all be make take summer jobs down the mines like I had to. Slaved for months but it was worth it. I still take it out of the wardrobe and try it on from time to time. :pac: rocking out, Angus Young style.

Lots saying they are glad it's gone. I'm shocked such a grant ever existed.

wolfpawnat

wexie wrote: »

And yes...that sucks for the kids, but should it not be up to the parents to teach them to deal with this? Because you know what : Life ain't fair and if it's not communion dresses it'll be something else.

One family might go on holidays to the Burj Al Arab in Dubai every Easter while the other family can't afford to paint hard boiled eggs. How do you propose to deal with this?

Or the fact that some parents might collect their kids in a brand new Merc while the other family has to make do with a 18 year old Fiat. Do you really think that the communion dress is going to make the difference?

Children do not understand economics, salaries and the like, they will only know that a day where they are all supposed to be the same, some children will have lovely new dresses and they will have whatever their parents can afford. Hence why I said they should all do it in uniforms, so that they are all the same.

I remember never going on holidays as a child, I never thought it was economics, all I thought was it wasn't fair, I was just as good as them. I never realised their parents had more money. Kids don't think like that at 4-8 years old. A smart 9 year old may click it, but how is a young child supposed to know?

Menas

Kids know from a pretty early age where they stand socially. Every Birthday or Christmas will see the richer kids get better presents then most average poor kids.
Of course there are poor kids whose parents will try to spoil their kids at the cost of some other essentials.

So the state giving money to help poorer kids feel socially included at Communion time does not make sense to me.
Hopefully the stopping of this grant will be one small step towards the normalization of these occasions. They have gotten way out of hand over the last 2 decades.
I would love if we could get to the situation where going over the top on occasions like this was frowned upon by society and became socially unacceptable but somehow I fear this will never happen.

HondaSami

McLoughlin wrote: »

Now make it compulsory to make it in school uniforms.

Confirmation is made in school uniform, The Communion dress is part of the tradition which should not be stopped imo.

Ranicand

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Children do not understand economics, salaries and the like, they will only know that a day where they are all supposed to be the same, some children will have lovely new dresses and they will have whatever their parents can afford. Hence why I said they should all do it in uniforms, so that they are all the same.

I remember never going on holidays as a child, I never thought it was economics, all I thought was it wasn't fair, I was just as good as them. I never realised their parents had more money. Kids don't think like that at 4-8 years old. A smart 9 year old may click it, but how is a young child supposed to know?

Well if children can not understand the economics of it they sure as hell won't understand the religious part of it.

Being Catholic and Christian making our communion is suppose to be about becoming one with God and Jesus.

A conformation is suppose to be for older children who NOW UNDERSTAND the religion confirming they wish to be part of it.

As Christians we are suppose to believe that Jesus accepted a horrific death to pay for our sins so we would not burn in Hell for all eternity.

Now I know people will jump on my post say this is religious bunk.

My question back is why should the state fund fancy outfits for children to participate in a ceremony they either don't understand or think is bunk?

Lollipops23

HondaSami wrote: »

Confirmation is made in school uniform, The Communion dress is part of the tradition which should not be stopped imo.

Not in all schools it isn't. My principal had a thing about not letting us try to out-bling each other, so we had our uniforms on, but other schools in the area were let wear what they liked.

My cousin grew up in Bray and she made her communion in a robe, changing into her dress afterwards for visiting and dinner etc. At least gives people the option of how they want to deal with it.

wolfpawnat

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Children do not understand economics, salaries and the like, they will only know that a day where they are all supposed to be the same, some children will have lovely new dresses and they will have whatever their parents can afford. Hence why I said they should all do it in uniforms, so that they are all the same.

I remember never going on holidays as a child, I never thought it was economics, all I thought was it wasn't fair, I was just as good as them. I never realised their parents had more money. Kids don't think like that at 4-8 years old. A smart 9 year old may click it, but how is a young child supposed to know?

So your argument is that in order to prevent a little girl from being upstaged at a communion, the government should provide? For serious?

rainbow kirby

Good riddance tbh - if parents want little Jimmy or Jenny to go through religious ceremonies that's their problem, it shouldn't be on the state to pay for them, particularly when the payment favours members of one particular faith who have more ceremonies when their children are young than others.

phasers

My communion dress was so awesome. My Mam wouldnt let me have an umbrella though, she said they were common

Ranicand

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Good riddance tbh - if parents want little Jimmy or Jenny to go through religious ceremonies that's their problem, it shouldn't be on the state to pay for them, particularly when the payment favours members of one particular faith who have more ceremonies when their children are young than others.

Well this was founded as a Catholic state so I would vote for a compromise.

Half the grant and instead of giving it to the family the child could nominate the money to a charity of their choice.

This would instill the true meaning of Christianity and I am sure the little mites would be vary happy.:D:D

Ranicand

phasers wrote: »

My communion dress was so awesome. My Mam wouldnt let me have an umbrella though, she said they were common

Good thing it did not rain.:P

HondaSami

Ranicand wrote: »

Half the grant and instead of giving it to the family the child could nominate the money to a charity of their choice.

The charity is Ireland, the country is broke and needs all the charity it can get.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The robe they wear for confirmation in my area is like a Ku Klux Klan outfit.

A white hooded robe, on the left breast area there's an emblem consisting of a cross engulfed in flames with a dove swooping down on it. I always thought it was very weird, like did nobody cop the similarities when this thing was being designed.

Mary28

How much was it anyway? (Sorry if this was mentioned already).

Ranicand

Mary28 wrote: »

How much was it anyway? (Sorry if this was mentioned already).

paddy147 wrote: »

Something like 110-120 euro I think.

That was the best answer I could find in the thread.

wolfpawnat

Ranicand wrote: »

Well if children can not understand the economics of it they sure as hell won't understand the religious part of it.

Did you have a communion at 7/8 years old. God's honest truth, I had no idea what the hell they were on about, only that I could get that tasty bread stuff when I was in mass from then on!

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So your argument is that in order to prevent a little girl from being upstaged at a communion, the government should provide? For serious?

When did I ever say the government should pay? Read ALL of my posts, I said I did not approve of that payment being used for that, and that it should be done in uniforms so that it was not a parade of what families had money and what didn't. Creating class-ism in 7/8 does no one any good.

Ranicand

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Did you have a communion at 7/8 years old. God's honest truth, I had no idea what the hell they were on about, only that I could get that tasty bread stuff when I was in mass from then on!

Yes I did and I was only interested in the money I was given.

So you see it proves my point.:D

hotmail.com

Ranicand wrote: »

Well this was founded as a Catholic state so I would vote for a compromise.

Half the grant and instead of giving it to the family the child could nominate the money to a charity of their choice.

This would instill the true meaning of Christianity and I am sure the little mites would be vary happy.:D:D

We weren't founded as a Catholic state.

Ranicand

hotmail.com wrote: »

We weren't founded as a Catholic state.

Maybe not in name but they ran everything.

I remember Ian Paisley saying the seat of Irish power was in Maynooth.

And by the way my post was not a serious one.

wolfpawnat

Ranicand wrote: »

Yes I did and I was only interested in the money I was given.

So you see it proves my point.:D

I got £200 and a meal in my favourite hotel. It was a good day for me


Body and blood of Christ? All I was interested in was the bread with my soup and the ketchup with my chips! Religious ceremonies are a joke for the most part, but to dress children up and force parents to fork out a small fortune for the privilege, toss off! Ergo my argument if it is to be done, do it in uniforms.

I laugh at the attitude of the church that we should pay for their services, they should be fúcking grateful anyone graces their pews after the shít they put so many innocent people through!!!!

Thwip!

paddy147 wrote: »

What happens to a person/family who has no money left at the end of each week to do it on the cheap??

God will provide

Gatling

Teach your kids life lessons if you can't afford you do with out

shopaholic01

If schools want to participate they should bring the kids over during school time, in their uniform. Straight back to school then to reflect on the importance of having received 'the body of christ'. No fuss, no expense and no grants needed.

It would be interesting to see how many parents would be bothered then.

Sigourney

phasers wrote: »

My communion dress was so awesome. My Mam wouldnt let me have an umbrella though, she said they were common

Dunnes Stores have frilly umbrellas for adults now, so you can finally prove her right/wrong. Did you have one of those drawstring purse things like a bog-roll holder?

Death and Taxes

Ranicand wrote: »

Well this was founded as a Catholic state so I would vote for a compromise.

Half the grant and instead of giving it to the family the child could nominate the money to a charity of their choice.

This would instill the true meaning of Christianity and I am sure the little mites would be vary happy.:D:D

Fúck that, ehy should I be FORCED to pay tax so members of one religious group can nominate a charity to give to, no way.
This is a religious ceremony, the state has zero role in funding it, bad enough we are paying the teachers to prepare the kids for this, that should be up to the church and outside school hours.

HondaSami

Gatling wrote: »

Teach your kids life lessons if you can't afford you do with out

It does not have to cost much, it's parents who make it expensive, majority of people can afford to have holy communion, nothing wrong with using a dress belonging to someone else.

Ranicand

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Fúck that, ehy should I be FORCED to pay tax so members of one religious group can nominate a charity to give to, no way.
This is a religious ceremony, the state has zero role in funding it, bad enough we are paying the teachers to prepare the kids for this, that should be up to the church and outside school hours.

The two smiley faces at the end of my post does not give you the slightest clue my post was a joke?

Sulla Felix

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I got £200 and a meal in my favourite hotel. It was a good day for me


Body and blood of Christ? All I was interested in was the bread with my soup and the ketchup with my chips! Religious ceremonies are a joke for the most part, but to dress children up and force parents to fork out a small fortune for the privilege, toss off! Ergo my argument if it is to be done, do it in uniforms.

I laugh at the attitude of the church that we should pay for their services, they should be fúcking grateful anyone graces their pews after the shít they put so many innocent people through!!!!

You had a favourite hotel at eight?

wolfpawnat

Sulla Felix wrote: »

You had a favourite hotel at eight?

I had been there once before. It had a desert table! Table I tell you!

Ranicand

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I had been there once before. It had a desert table! Table I tell you!

A pretty big desert.:D

Gatling

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I had been there once before. It had a desert table! Table I tell you!

McDonald have milkshake's and apple pies

wolfpawnat

Ranicand wrote: »

A pretty big desert.:D

Everything was tiny, but you could stack what you could on the plate(well as a child that was my objective anyway). It being my Communion, I got a slightly bigger plate than usual. It was just some small hotel carvery, but when you are 8 and not used to going out, how could it not be your favourite????

wolfpawnat

Gatling wrote: »

McDonald have milkshake's and apple pies

Back in my day *shakes walking stick* Mc Donalds was the fricken Ritz as far as I was concerned. Got a birthday there when I was seven off my dad. It was fricken burgers and chips and we loved it! We barely ever went, I saw it every Saturday from the car park as my parents exchanged myself and my sis, rarely went in though "it'll rot your teeth!!!":rolleyes:

Zebra3

Hopefully now the government will look at all the tax breaks that religious organisations get.

All those payments for christenings that go through the books as "donations", etc.

MurdyWurdy

My cousin is making her confirmation soon, my side of the family aren't Catholic so I'm a bit clueless. From reading this thread it seems I'm supposed to give her money which I was not aware of. Wtf - is that true? Why - is there a reason?

Odysseus

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

My cousin is making her confirmation soon, my side of the family aren't Catholic so I'm a bit clueless. From reading this thread it seems I'm supposed to give her money which I was not aware of. Wtf - is that true? Why - is there a reason?

Of course there is a reason. The reason we give what 20-50e in a card is because the child is making their confirmation;)

HondaSami

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

My cousin is making her confirmation soon, my side of the family aren't Catholic so I'm a bit clueless. From reading this thread it seems I'm supposed to give her money which I was not aware of. Wtf - is that true? Why - is there a reason?

You don't have to give money if you don't want too.

Ranicand

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

My cousin is making her confirmation soon, my side of the family aren't Catholic so I'm a bit clueless. From reading this thread it seems I'm supposed to give her money which I was not aware of. Wtf - is that true? Why - is there a reason?

It is nothing to do with religion.

Among Catholics Confirmation kind of marks starting your teen years.

Giving money is just kind of a custom to make the brat feel special.

If you don't give money your religious difference will go over her head and she will just think your stingy.

MurdyWurdy

I see, it just seems a bit strange if you're not used to it. I don't particularly want to give her money, I'm quite generous at her birthdays and Christmas and being the baby of the family she's very spoiled already. Also, money is quite tight at the moment.

I'd rather take her out for the day sometime instead or something like that. Will talk to my aunt about it and see. How much do people usually give out of interest, 20 - 50 as said above?

Odysseus

Ranicand wrote: »

It is nothing to do with religion.

Among Catholics Confirmation kind of marks starting your teen years.

Giving money is just kind of a custom to make the brat feel special.

If you don't give money your religious difference will go over her head and she will just think your stingy.

To be fair there is a lot of pressure to give money. Now if someone is really low on cash I wouldn't judge them personally. However, I remember a uncle of mine gave me an empty card, stating he hadn't time to get change and that he would sort me out later, never did.

Anyway my Mam took this as a personal insult as that particular was very well off. Two years later his son was being brought out to our house for his confirmation and I remember my Mam insisting that he get an empty card too.

Thankfully my Dad wouldn't have it, sasid he wasn't taking it out on the kid and I agree. However, my Mam didn't speak to that Uncle her brother for over a decade because of it.

OTT I agree but I think it says something about the pressure put on people to cough up at these occasions.