DILEMMA: gay in the changing room

Norwesterner

efb wrote: »

Do most hetros think their 'reasonably attractive'? Cos they ain't

Thats sexist generalisation.
Like saying most lesbians are dog ruff apart from the lookers on porn.
(which I wouldn't say of course as it's sexist generalisation)

1ZRed

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

You can't speak for every gay guy there.

If you're gay IZRed, I'm sure you've been the subject of inappropriate attention yourself at some point, maybe in a club or some old guy at a bar. I think most gay people have experienced this and so we know that discomfort. Those guys do exist, they're not even always the older ones.

So yeah, I can see why some guys would feel uncomfortable and they shouldn't be roasted for saying so. It's not an anti gay thing, it's a sexual thing in general and despite your valid point about conditioning, the sexual awareness does exist in these environments (I can only speak for me) and I have no doubt some men take it too far.

Sometimes as I have from women and as straight males have done so to women also.

Exactly, I can only speak for myself but my few mates who happen to be gay think along the same axis. You are free to think how you like but why give so much attention to notions that maybe we should have separate changing rooms and stating that's it's a sexual situation just because you experience it that way. Don't tar everything with the same brush either.

There's feck all that bothers me and I'm very lax on these gay issues but this is one thing that annoys me when men think we're all eyeing them up and we should nearly see it as grand to be set apart instead of everyone just getting on with thier sh1t and out of there instead of BS worrying about what either orientation thinks of the other. It's very pointless to me.
I just want to go about my fecking business without any sexuality being brought up, if I want sex I'll just fuk my bf. the changing room just doesn't suffice for me.

Galwayguy35

oldyouth wrote: »

In my experience, it is often the (seemingly) heterosexual who flashes his bollicks in your face while trying to engage you in conversation about 'de match'

Really?

Any changing room I have been in all they lads take their shower, put on their clothes and go.

Noone is flashing their dick at anyone else.

efb

Norwesterner wrote: »

Thats sexist generalisation.
Like saying most lesbians are dog ruff apart from the lookers on porn.
(which I wouldn't say of course as it's sexist generalisation)

No it's fairly accurate most people are not 'fairly attractive' otherwise it's a very broad and then useless term

Oranage2

The people I have a problem with in the gym are the retired gentlemen drying their ball sack with the hair dryer.

On topic, it happens quite a lot men checking each other out in the gym, straight or gay, as long as their isn't a cheeky wink to go with it it's fine, though like a lot of men if an openly gay guy was there id probably wait till he finished his shower before going in or what not, probably an immaturity thing I don't really care but it's one of those things where the boards opinion is completely different to real life.

Cody Pomeray

1ZRed wrote: »

this is one thing that annoys me when men think we're all eyeing them up and we should nearly see it as grand to be set apart instead of everyone just getting on with thier sh1t and out of there instead of BS worrying about what either orientation thinks of the other.

Stop trying to make this about being gay. Gay people are just one element of a wider issue where, in modern society, plenty of people can legitimately feel uncomfortable being naked around certain other people.

It isn't bigotry when a woman feels too uncomfortable to breastfeed on public transport, even though very few people are likely to drool over her.

It isn't bigotry when a woman feels too uncomfortable swimming nude at the 40 foot, even though she is unlikely to be focused upon.

And it isn't bigotry when any guy, gay or straight, feels too uncomfortable undressing around gay guys, even though he too is unlikely to be drooled over.

This is just how life is. lots of people legitimately avoid situations where they feel sexualised. Straight men shouldn't feel forced to deny themselves that comfort just because they are straight men - because that is bigotry. We should know.

Annasopra

WayneMolloy wrote: »

It is a situation that I have been in a few times and its something that made me feel uncomfortable. Its not because I doubt my sexuality or because I have hang ups about my body - I simply think it to be inappropriate.

Its a crap situation for a heterosexual to be in - as you dont want to overtly offend a gay lad who is having tough enough time of it, as is.

So we shut up and hope we dont have to go through the same scenario on our next visit.

Seriously - just because you are a man - every gay man does not want to ogle you and perve on you in changing rooms.

Annasopra

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Stop trying to make this about being gay. Gay people are just one element of a wider issue where, in modern society, plenty of people can legitimately feel uncomfortable being naked around certain other people.

It isn't bigotry when a woman feels too uncomfortable to breastfeed on public transport, even though very few people are likely to drool over her.

It isn't bigotry when a woman feels too uncomfortable swimming nude at the 40 foot, even though she is unlikely to be focused upon.

And it isn't bigotry when any guy, gay or straight, feels too uncomfortable undressing around gay guys, even though he too is unlikely to be drooled over.

This is just how life is. lots of people legitimately avoid situations where they feel sexualised. Straight men shouldn't feel forced to deny themselves that comfort just because they are straight men - because that is bigotry. We should know.

The thread title suggests it's about being gay - if it it's about something else then maybe it should have had a different name.

I think some of this is just people feeling uncomfortable due to silly assumptions that all gay men will fancy and perve on all straight men.

I don't think everyone who feels uncomfortable is bigoted but there is certainly a degree of it.

Cody Pomeray

mango salsa wrote: »

The thread title suggests it's about being gay -

Yeah, for me it's cropped up because I share a changing room with people whose gender I'm attracted to. But the same applies to lots of people in lots of different circumstances. For example...

I don't think everyone who feels uncomfortable is bigoted but there is certainly a degree of it.

Do you think there is "a degree of" bigotry on the part of women who feel uncomfortable swimming naked at the 40-foot, or on a secluded nudist beach?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

This is just how life is. lots of people legitimately avoid situations where they feel sexualised. Straight men shouldn't feel forced to deny themselves that comfort just because they are straight men - because that is bigotry. We should know.

Gym changing rooms are probably not a good place to be in then.

Solair

I don't know about the rest of you, but this had never even crossed my mind.

The world is full of people of both genders and various sexual orientations (including lots of somewhat ambiguous ones).

I have a lot more things to be worried about than some guy checking me out in the changing room and its certainly not something that would worry me.

If we continue too far down this route we'll be back to the Victorian era where we'll all be going around covering our ankles in case someone gets too at excited.

I'd prefer if they'd come up with a separate changing room for the people who seem to think its a good idea to put a ½ a can of aerosol deodorant on while choking the place with fumes.

At the very least they should provide some kind of fume hoods / areas for asthmatics !

I think though we need to get over this kind of puritanical paranoia about anything to do with bodies. Changing rooms are changing rooms. I'd be more worried that certain posters are 'sexualising' the rather mundane experience of changing for the gym!

tigger123

I was a member of a gym in town thats gay friendly for a few years. The male changing rooms had gay and straight in it and it was never an issue. As a straight man I never felt perved on or sexuallised in any way what so ever. Its such a non issue IMO, bit of a non thread, really don't see the problem with it.

Penn

Always found it strange that in my gym, the majority of women never use the changing room. They just grab their stuff and go shower at home. Whereas the mens changing room is usually packed.

As to the thread topic, there's no dilemma. Straight, gay... whatever. So long as everyone adheres to good changing room etiquette, there's no issue.

smash

tigger123 wrote: »

I was a member of a gym in town thats gay friendly for a few years. The male changing rooms had gay and straight in it and it was never an issue. As a straight man I never felt perved on or sexuallised in any way what so ever. Its such a non issue IMO, bit of a non thread, really don't see the problem with it.

Eh, I'm pretty sure that all gyms are gay friendly!

Solair

Men sweat a lot more could be one reason that guys don't skip a shower.

That or you're working out with really stinky chicks who never wash!

IM0

what about villages

IM0

Penn wrote: »

Always found it strange that in my gym, the majority of women never use the changing room. They just grab their stuff and go shower at home. Whereas the mens changing room is usually packed.

As to the thread topic, there's no dilemma. Straight, gay... whatever. So long as every adheres to good changing room etiquette, there's no issue.

cause women are more catty ***** in general about their body, you seriously expect them to get naked in front of each other :eek:

smash

IM0 wrote: »

what about villages

Clearly they should be forced to fight like highlanders!

smurgen

I think the elephant in the room is old men in changing rooms. Motherf*****s be dangling them balls all up in your grill!

Penn

Solair wrote: »

Men sweat a lot more could be one reason that guys don't skip a shower.

That or you're working out with really stinky chicks who never wash!

Or they showered at home.

Cody Pomeray

Solair wrote: »

I don't know about the rest of you, but this had never even crossed my mind.

No offence but that response was pre-empted earlier in the thread, this is not a survey of how comfortable you are with the idea. It's about us accepting the fact (or not) that some people would be conscious about it and deciding how to respond to their unease (or not respond).

puritanical paranoia

Oh great, so do I have you right, any woman who finds the idea of showering/ breastfeeding/ swimming at a nudist beach is puritanical and paranoid?

Czarcasm

OP you probably would've been better off posting this in the Personal Issues forum. Unless a gay man has it stapled to his forehead, how the hell is anyone else going to know?

You know going into a men's changing room that there are going to be a lot of naked men in there at some point. Knowing this, you still go in there. So who should be responsible?

You for knowingly entering an area where you knew there'd be naked men, or said men for being naked in a changing room?

Unless you vajazzle your junk OP I would suggest you don't have anything to be embarrassed or intimidated about.

Whipping your mates with the tip of a wet towel is so 90's :pac:

Solair

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Oh great, so do I have you right, any woman who finds the idea of showering/ breastfeeding/ swimming at a nudist beach is puritanical and paranoid?

In my opinion, yes it is.
Outside of the English-speaking world and the Islamic world, a lot of those things aren't a problem at all. It's very much an English-speaking country throw back to puritanical days. The English like to pretend they're more liberal than the Irish and blame the Catholic Church on our hang ups, but they're just as bad over there. It's a common thread right across the US, Canada, England, Ireland and Aus, NZ etc.

It's just a hangover from the Victorian period when women used to go swimming wearing an entire garden shed on wheels drawn into the sea by horses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathing_machine

Like it or not, we come from a culture with a very long history of deep sexual oppression and weird hang-ups about body parts. It's not remotely normal.

smash

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP you probably would've been better off posting this in the Personal Issues forum. Unless a gay man has it stapled to his forehead, how the hell is anyone else going to know?

He's the only one walking around the changing room with an erection!

somefeen

I would probably be a bit insecure. It would be the same as changing in front of a woman.
But how am I supposed to know some guy is gay? They don't go to the gym in sequin shorts and pink leotards, well maybe not all of them.

So basically what I don't know wont bother me.

VinLieger

Meh if people are that insecure dont get changed in the gym

Carlos Orange

newport2 wrote: »

In fairness, the only solution to have nobody checking out anyone else in changing rooms is

- One room for straight men
- One room for straight women
- One room for every gay man, with the possible option of sharing it with a gay woman.
- One room for every gay woman, with the possible option of sharing it with a gay man.

You'd need quite a few rooms. I think the easier solution is just get changed quickly

That doesn't make any sense since the gays would still be checking each other out. You need the number of gays + 2 rooms.

Cody Pomeray

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP you probably would've been better off posting this in the Personal Issues forum. Unless a gay man has it stapled to his forehead, how the hell is anyone else going to know?

If they're somehow acquainted, as per the original example.

Solair wrote: »

In my opinion, yes it is.
Outside of the English-speaking world and the Islamic world, a lot of those things aren't a problem at all. It's very much an English-speaking country throw back to puritanical days. The English like to pretend they're more liberal than the Irish and blame the Catholic Church on our hang ups, but they're just as bad over there. It's a common thread right across the US, Canada, England, Ireland and Aus, NZ etc.

It's just a hangover from the Victorian period

No, I think women just feel uncomfortable at the idea of being judged or being the subjected of unwanted attention of a sexual nature.

Your reasoning is the logical equivalent of calling anyone who doesn't want to walk down Grafton Street butt baked a Victorian prig. It's not realistic. It's what someone else described as "a boards opinion". I can't imagine many people really subscribe to it irl.

Solair

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

If they're somehow acquainted, as per the original example.




No, I think women just feel uncomfortable at the idea of being judged or being the subjected of unwanted attention of a sexual nature.

Your reasoning is the logical equivalent of calling anyone who doesn't want to walk down Grafton Street butt baked a Victorian prig. It's not realistic. It's what someone else described as "a boards opinion". I can't imagine many people really subscribe to it irl.

Well, that's your opinion.

A lot of the rest of the world thinks we're a little bit weirdly conservative about such matters.
Maybe a lot of Irish and British people wouldn't subscribe to it, but it doesn't mean that their opinions on such matters aren't weird and informed by a puritanical cultural bias.

I mean, in some countries it's quite acceptable and normal for women to keep their heads covered and considered immodest not to. We're not quite that bad, but we certainly have huge hang ups about things like breast feeding which a lot of people would consider about as normal and boring as wearing sandals.

Bear in mind that attitudes change drastically too, it's not that long ago that women in Ireland were afraid to be seen 'out in their figure' (without a coat!)

I know my grandad shocked the neighbours in the 1960s when he went out to mow the lawn wearing bermuda shorts! (He wasn't from the locality and apparently they'd never seen men's legs before and nearly died.)

A neighbour actually complained to the Parish Priest (I am not joking!). Although to be fair, I think she was a member of the 1950s/60s suburban Dublin version of the Taliban.

As much as I like the place, Ireland was nutty as squirrel poop in the recent past.

Cody Pomeray

Solair wrote: »

Well, that's your opinion.

A lot of the rest of the world thinks we're a little bit weirdly conservative about such matters.
Maybe a lot of Irish and British people wouldn't subscribe to it, but it doesn't mean that their opinions on such matters aren't weird and informed by a puritanical cultural bias.

I mean, in some countries it's quite acceptable and normal for women to keep their heads covered and considered immodest not to. We're not quite that bad, but we certainly have huge hang ups about things like breast feeding which a lot of people would consider about as normal and boring as wearing sandals.

Bear in mind that attitudes change drastically too, it's not that long ago that women in Ireland were afraid to be seen 'out in their figure' (without a coat!)

I know my grandad shocked the neighbours in the 1960s when he went out to mow the lawn wearing bermuda shorts! (He wasn't from the locality and apparently they'd never seen men's legs before and nearly died.)

A neighbour actually complained to the Parish Priest (I am not joking!). Although to be fair, I think she was a member of the 1950s/60s suburban Dublin version of the Taliban.

As much as I like the place, Ireland was nutty as squirrel poop in the recent past.

It's July, and unseasonally warm. You're having some friends over for drinks in the garden. Dilemma: Do you wear clothes?

Solair

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

It's July, and unseasonally warm. You're having some friends over for drinks in the garden. Dilemma: Do you wear clothes?

That'd be about 15ºC ?

Cody Pomeray

Shall I take that as a yes?

Are your friends puritanical and/ or paranoid?

Solair

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Shall I take that as a yes?

You're just taking extreme examples to prove a point. Obviously, I'm not going to strip off in the garden.

However, I would definitely think Ireland and Britain (and other English speaking countries) have *huge* hang ups about nudity compared to continental Europe in general and most other non-Islamic parts of the world.

Things like breastfeeding etc are still 'controversial' and really shouldn't be.

If anything, Ireland and Britain are moving more towards a 'normal' continental attitude while the USA is becoming even more hung up about it than it was.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Are your friends puritanical and/ or paranoid?

No, they're not. Are yours?

Cody Pomeray

Solair wrote: »

You're just taking extreme examples to prove a point. Obviously, I'm not going to strip off in the garden.

Why not?

Seriously, unless you and your friends are paranoid puritans, why wrap up in all those clothes in such warm weather?

Irishcrx

I really don't think a lot of people would have a problem with it, certainly only a minority and they are generally the overly anti-gay homophobic macho men types. I've played football for years and there has been a few gay lads on the teams, they were never treated any differantly than just one of the lads and showering with them was never an issue for anyone.

All that mattered was that they were decent players. As it should be.

newport2

psinno wrote: »

Originally Posted by newport2
In fairness, the only solution to have nobody checking out anyone else in changing rooms is

- One room for straight men
- One room for straight women
- One room for every gay man, with the possible option of sharing it with a gay woman.
- One room for every gay woman, with the possible option of sharing it with a gay man.

You'd need quite a few rooms. I think the easier solution is just get changed quickly

That doesn't make any sense since the gays would still be checking each other out. You need the number of gays + 2 rooms.

Read what I said again. The only gay people I suggested would share a room are a man who likes men with a woman who likes women, who I don't think would be checking each other out. I said for "one room for every gay man" not one room for all the gay men together. So yes, the number of gays + 2 rooms.

Stark

They should have this question on the Project Maths curriculum.

Czarcasm

I went back and looked at the OP again.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

First world problem alert.

More of an individual problem I'd say.

Male and female changing rooms exist so that nobody feels they are being seen naked in a sexual way by strangers.

This never occurred to me in the 30 years I've been using swimming pools. I don't use gyms because I don't like wearing tracksuits or runners (See OP? We all have our little quirks!). My brother owns and runs an exclusively male oriented gym alright, but as far as I know they don't ask for gay ID at the door. They're there for the gym, not for Jim.

Personally it doesn't bother me very much.

Really?

But I reckon a lot of guys would feel uncomfortable getting naked around guys who they think might be checking them out (body, physique, manhood). Ditto with lesbians.

Important words highlighted there OP. Have any of your straight male friends ever commented on your physical attributes? If not, then the question becomes when did they lower the membership age of Boards.ie to allow self conscious twelve year old's to start threads?

In fairness OP I think it's commendable that you're considerate of your friends, but unless you're helicoptering their bottom lip with something that resembles a baby's arm, I don't think they're too worried about bending over in front of you to pick up the shampoo bottle. These are your friends remember, they understand that you're a civilised human being who doesn't feel the need to lob your mickey into them at the first opportunity, unless one of your equally adonis-like friends has voiced their concerns? In which case I'd suggest you tell them too to grow up a small bit.

As a gay myself, it makes me a little paranoid.

So it DOES bother you then?

I know a lot of people in my gym and I've never hidden the fact I'm gay. We probably 'notice' other guys bodies in a way a straight guy might not, but i don't want anyone to think I'm checking them out and even though I feel silly about overthinking it, I avoid going back to change with guys I am friends with.

And when, tell me, did the homosexual hive mind become sentient?

Changes E V E R Y T H I N G !!

(Not really, still sounds like more of a personal issue to me!)

What do other AHers think? With openly gay people on the loose in a gym or swimming pool near you, do changing rooms need a re-think?

With openly straight people on the loose I'd respectfully suggest OP it's you need a rethink. Posters in AH as you've so far discovered are a variety of all shapes, sizes and sexualities. The only hive mind that exists is the one you've created in your own mind.

As for my own personal opinion on changing room arrangements and etiquette-

Don't touch my johnson, don't touch my phone; we'll get along just fine.

Cody Pomeray

Czarcasm wrote: »

ore of an individual problem I'd say.

when did they lower the membership age of Boards.ie to allow self conscious twelve year old's to start threads?

Changes E V E R Y T H I N G !!

The only hive mind that exists is the one you've created in your own mind.

are you trying to hit me with your handbag here?
No idea what sparked that response.

You're absolutely right. Excellent points.

Paddy Cow

Penn wrote: »

Always found it strange that in my gym, the majority of women never use the changing room. They just grab their stuff and go shower at home. Whereas the mens changing room is usually packed.

Women tend to have a lot more products so it's less hassle to shower at home.

Gummy Panda

I don't care. Its not I'm comfortable or uncomfortable around gay men. Its a case I'm so fúcked from the workout that I just want to either get in the shower or grab my pwo shake.

It could be power bottom lad naked showing me how gapped his boyfriend left him but I wouldn't notice.