Windows 8 is not good for...

zom

PC shipments suffer worst fall since records began, IDC

http://www.techcentral.ie/21309/pc-shipments-suffer-worst-fall-since-records-began-idc

Despite expectations that consumers were holding off on their next purchase for Windows 8 to arrive, Microsoft's latest operating system did little to help PC shipments grow, IDC analysts said.

SV

This is very interesting.








NAAAHT.

kirving

Windows 8 is grand, takes all of an hour to get used to the new UI. After that, it's faster than 7 for lots of things.

Steve O

It is the worst OS I have ever had the displeasure to use. I would rather go back to Vista at this stage.

Antar Bolaeisk

Most people don't know enough to care what's on their PCs when they're buying them and there's also the option of downgrading to Windows 7 so any businesses wishing to purchase new hardware have that facility.

There are three main factors affecting PC sales and they are the economy, tablets and the power of the hardware over the last couple of years as, let's face it, if you're running a C2D with 4GB of RAM you're going to be grand for most day to day functionality.

Macs are also witnessing a drop, somewhere around 17%, is this also the fault of Windows 8? (I think they're blaming supply constraints or something like that)

Ficheall

Windows 8 came pre-installed on my laptop, complete with the required secure boot which made it quite difficult to install Linux alongside it. Don't have a dual-boot now either, because you have to disable the secure boot to run Linux, and Windows8 won't run with the secure boot off.

I was forced to use Windows8 for about a week though, and it was pretty horrible.

keith16

Microsoft are trying WAY too hard with windows 8, in particular, they appear to be trying to make it fool proof. I'm not sure many big corporations will like it.

TeddyTedson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsPheErBj8

Chucken

You know what else Windows 8 is not good for? Making toast :mad:

zom

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Windows 8 is grand, takes all of an hour to get used to the new UI. After that, it's faster than 7 for lots of things.

Seems like most people don't share your nice Win8 experience. And THEY and making PC market moving, not you. Anyway - surprise is that even Apple saw -7.5 shipments decline. I was expectiong people moving from Windows to MACs but seems like it's global trend.

Ficheall

I don't believe that Windows 8 is faster. It starts up faster because it does a fake shutdown and startup (hibernating the kernel rather than shutting it down) but that's it. Every time a new Windows version comes out, people say it's faster, but that's probably just compared to an old bloated install of the previous OS.

It can be used on a desktop, it really isn't that hard. If you get a new machine with Windows 8 then you might as well use it but I also don't see any point in upgrading if you're already on Windows 7.

Ficheall wrote: »

Windows 8 came pre-installed on my laptop, complete with the required secure boot which made it quite difficult to install Linux alongside it. Don't have a dual-boot now either, because you have to disable the secure boot to run Linux, and Windows8 won't run with the secure boot off.

I was forced to use Windows8 for about a week though, and it was pretty horrible.

If you disable secure boot but leave UEFI booting enabled then Windows 8 still runs, just with secure boot off.

rainbow kirby

*waves tiny Ubuntu flag*

Ranicand

Phones TVs games consoles tablets Blu Ray players all connect to the broadband these days.

The toilet will be next it will send an email to your phone to remind you that you have not had a ****e in 3 days and your low on loo roll.

Gorilla Rising

Uninstalled Win8 and installed Win7 instead. Far better.

I don't need a bloody app to use netflix etc.

Good for tablets/touchscreen PC's, not for standard PC's or shoulders!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/09/windows-8-touchscreen-laptops-pain

According to Microsoft, the great leap forward about Windows 8 is its ability to be used with a touchscreen. Where Windows 7 could be squeezed into touch devices, the onscreen targets became too small. With Windows 8, you have big "tiles" to aim for.
But research due to be published soon suggests that users of touchscreen laptops may be at risk of developing health problems, because the hybrid devices can cause strain to the shoulder.
While the rise in tablets and smartphones means that touchscreens have become almost ubiquitous, it's only recently that they've appeared on laptops, where the screen is generally used in a raised position beyond arm's length. But they're taking off fast: in the US, touchscreen models account for a quarter of current Windows 8 laptop sales, says NPD, and Windows 8 boss Julie Larson-Green has said she expects virtually all laptops to have touchscreens soon.
Yet this is not the first time vendors have marketed vertical touchscreens. Back in 1983, HP launched the 150 Touchscreen desktop, saying it hoped to gain up to 22% of the US PC market with the machine. It didn't – partly, perhaps, because it was ahead of its time, but also because customers complained it was painful to use.
In fact, according to many experts, using a touchscreen in a vertical position is very risky ergonomically. With touchscreen notebooks comparatively new, most research relates to desktops. But while the problems with notebooks may not be as extreme, they still apply.
Indeed, Apple's Steve Jobs – not usually one to dismiss a pretty gadget on the grounds of uselessness – once said he'd never launch a touchscreen laptop because of what he called "gorilla arm".
"We've done tons of user testing on this," he said back in 2010, "and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical. It gives great demo, but after a short period of time you start to fatigue, and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off."
Studies have shown that users of desktop touchscreens report a "significant increase of discomfort in the shoulder, neck and fingers; and that the electric signals from shoulder muscles tell the same story.
"We concluded that the more frequent use of their hands and fingers in unsupported – arms were off the chair armrests – and stretched arm postures, which was necessary to perform touch gestures on the display, could be the main cause of their greater body discomforts," says Gwanseob Shin of the Urban National Institute of Science and Technology in Korea.
Indeed, health and safety regulations detail what's a safe weight to lift at various heights – and when the arm is raised to shoulder height, it's almost zero. "It depends on the weight of your arm, but just holding your arm up is tiring," says James Stewart, founder of ergonomics consultancy System Concepts.
It is possible, of course, to position a laptop so that the screen is reachable without lifting the elbows from the desk; but this means bringing it much closer than most people find comfortable visually.
"The issue with the new tablets is that the visual and touch interface are integrated, so there is a tradeoff between visual access and reaching and touching the device," says Professor Jack Dennerlein of the Harvard School of Public Health, whose research on the subject is shortly to appear in the journal Work. "The vertical screen does increase the load on the shoulder when we reach out to interact with the touch."
But there's little guidance for users from vendors. Microsoft's online advice on using a PC safely doesn't mention touchscreens at all – and, ironically, instructs users to avoid just those movements that a touchscreen notebook demands.
"To minimize reaching and to promote comfortable shoulder and arm postures, try the following: place your keyboard and mouse or trackball at the same height; these should be at about elbow level. Your upper arms should fall relaxed at your sides," it reads.
A company spokesperson said Microsoft had no advice for users about safe use of the Surface touchscreen, and no comment about possible health issues.
Most experts agree that problems shouldn't become too severe as long as users are using a mixture of input devices – keyboard, touchscreen, trackpad and mouse – without relying on the touchscreen too heavily.
And this is the advice given by HP, which describes its HP Envy x2 as a hybrid PC. "As people will be alternating the usage between the touch pad and keyboard we don't envisage any posture problem," says Udi Nachman, the company's UK & Ireland consumer PCs category manager. He adds: "Our view is that the keyboard is still the primary interface method on laptops right now."
However, says Avi Greengart, research director for consumer devices at analyst firm Current Analysis, some user interfaces make switching between input devices easier than others.
"Microsoft's Windows 8 can be used with both a mouse and a touchscreen," he says, "but the problem there is that Microsoft has not quite finished the user interface – some things can only be selected with a mouse, and some were clearly designed for finger navigation."
His preference is Google's Chromebook Pixel, which is 'trackpad-first', but which still allows the user to scroll web pages or select tabs with their finger. "You can use the Chromebook Pixel without ever touching the screen," he says.
But that, of course, rather defeats the object of buying a touchscreen machine in the first place...

Sarky

Working fine for me, are you sure you're just not lacking in leet skillz?

Seachmall

Other OSs should made available when buying a new computer. Windows should be entirely optional.

Antar Bolaeisk

Ranicand wrote: »

Phones TVs games consoles tablets Blu Ray players all connect to the broadband these days.

The toilet will be next it will send an email to your phone to remind you that you have not had a ****e in 3 days and your low on loo roll.

Actually, it's a requirement for the next government tax that's to be rolled out next year, €0.50 for a number 1, €1.00 for a number 2.

Seachmall wrote: »

Other OSs should made available when buying a new computer. Windows should be entirely optional.

Dell offered Ubuntu on their machines once, nobody really bothered with it from what I recall.

Sonics2k

PC sales are falling due to the increase in tablet sales and ultrabooks.

W8 is fine to use, in fact I started with the consumer preview and upgraded immediately.

It's only confusing at first, but gets amazingly simple to use after an hour or so, and is faster than W7 is.

Let's not all jump on the death of Microsoft bandwagon, when in fact it's PCs and Macs which are having the problem.

Sonics2k

Seachmall wrote: »

Other OSs should made available when buying a new computer. Windows should be entirely optional.

This was tested for a while by a few company, but it never took off.

Consumers will go for Windows over Linux/Ubuntu etc because it's a better known brand, exceedingly simple to use and works with all softwares people download from the get go.

The average person does not want to learn about kernels or how to get Linux to run effectively, they just want to sit down, play same flash games on Facebook and check their emails.

Sonics2k

Sonics2k wrote: »

This was tested for a while by a few company, but it never took off.

Consumers will go for Windows over Linux/Ubuntu etc because it's a better known brand, exceedingly simple to use and works with all softwares people download from the get go.

The average person does not want to learn about kernels or how to get Linux to run effectively, they just want to sit down, play same flash games on Facebook and check their emails.

Yeah, there's still loads of people out there who think that Windows and Office are the same thing; give them a vanilla Windows install (let alone Linux) and they'll be moaning that they've no Word or Excel.

MonkstownHoop

Windows 8 is not good for...

Ironing my socks

Zascar

I was very very skeptical, I was buying a new PC and really really really did not want Windows 8 on it, that metro swypy menu thing is horrible, however, when I found out you can get a program that brings back the normal Start menu, only a better one - it totally changed things

Download www.pokki.com and you never have to use that crappy metro thing again. After that, I realised the other parts of Windows 8 are actually brilliant and its my favourite one so far. That's coming form a die hard XP fan.

PC Shipments are down not because of Windows 8, but because the groth of the pc market is over. Mobile is everything now.

Dravokivich

I think its the same thing that happened with TVs. The audience has bought the product and not enough reason, to buy it again every 8 freacking months.

Reati

Really depending on who is talking. Gartner says it's the lack of cheap touchscreen devices.

http://www.neowin.net/news/gartner-not-as-fast-to-blame-windows-8-for-pc-shipment-drops

"Touchscreen-based Ultramobiles offer PC manufacturers an opportunity to recover market share from media tablets, but Windows 8 PCs with touchscreens accounted for only a small percentage of consumer PC shipments in the first quarter of 2013. The majority of consumers remain unwilling to pay the price premium for touchscreen capabilities on PCs at this stage. But, even so, touchscreens and Windows 8 will represent key opportunities for PC manufacturers in the second half of 2013."

Seachmall

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Dell offered Ubuntu on their machines once, nobody really bothered with it from what I recall.

They still do in the U.S. as far as I know but they refuse to ship here.

At the very least there should be an option for no OS installed.

Sonics2k wrote: »

The average person does not want to learn about kernels or how to get Linux to run effectively, they just want to sit down, play same flash games on Facebook and check their emails.

I don't really get this. The vast majority of people use their computer for writing documents, email, and browsing the web. All of these can be done out of the box with Ubuntu or Mint. I know people like the familiar, which makes sense, but even when I mention Linux to my friends they're just dead set against it.

One of my friends though brought his family computer to get repaired, when he got it back it had Ubuntu installed on it*. He gets on fine with it (although he uses his laptop more often).


*This is horrible service but hilarious none-the-less.

Sonics2k

Seachmall wrote: »

They still do in the U.S. as far as I know but they refuse to ship here.

At the very least there should be an option for no OS installed.

To be honest you'd be better off just building your own PC then.

Seachmall

Sonics2k wrote: »

To be honest you'd be better off just building your own PC then.

I do (or have done) but 90% of my work is done on a laptop and I've no interest in building them. I've no interest in building desktops either for that matter but c'est la vie.

Plus, it's more about providing others with choices. And an irrational disdain for Microsoft.

seanm92

Its an absolute pain in the a**e for college assignments, you can only have 1 pdf open at a time so you cant click between them, you need to go back into your folder everytime you want to reopen something you've been looking at. Drives me nuts!!!

Antar Bolaeisk

seanm92 wrote: »

Its an absolute pain in the a**e for college assignments, you can only have 1 pdf open at a time so you cant click between them, you need to go back into your folder everytime you want to reopen something you've been looking at. Drives me nuts!!!

Or, you know, you could install a decent .pdf reader.

Whatever about the new Metro start screen being great in Windows 8 the metro apps are a pain in the bum and best avoided.

NuckingFacker

I thought Ubuntu was a Zulu warrior. Then again, I'm better with hammers and stuff. I'd imagine tablets are hurting pc sales the worst. I got a samsung one and a samsung phone(note3s) and find I now rarely use the pc, or, err, the tablet...the phone does most of the stuff i want, esp e.mail and browsing.

johnmcdnl

Start8 and you get all the speed benefits of Windows 8 without the crap metro ****, best of both worlds

FrostyJack

Seachmall wrote: »

I don't really get this. The vast majority of people use their computer for writing documents, email, and browsing the web. All of these can be done out of the box with Ubuntu or Mint. I know people like the familiar, which makes sense, but even when I mention Linux to my friends they're just dead set against it.

Can you play Battlefield etc on Ubuntu? If you are just using it for reading emails, watching movies, coding Ubuntu is fine, but you cannot use Windows based programs, Windows is the middle ground for everything. Windows 7 is just about Goldielocks. I haven't used 8 enough to say it is better, but it does have potential.

Zascar

Zascar wrote: »

I was very very skeptical, I was buying a new PC and really really really did not want Windows 8 on it, that metro swypy menu thing is horrible, however, when I found out you can get a program that brings back the normal Start menu, only a better one - it totally changed things

Download www.pokki.com and you never have to use that crappy metro thing again. After that, I realised the other parts of Windows 8 are actually brilliant and its my favourite one so far. That's coming form a die hard XP fan.

PC Shipments are down not because of Windows 8, but because the groth of the pc market is over. Mobile is everything now.

iobit also has a version called startmenu8 which you can download for free on cnet.com. Stardock also have a version for $4.99.

seanm92

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Or, you know, you could install a decent .pdf reader.

Whatever about the new Metro start screen being great in Windows 8 the metro apps are a pain in the bum and best avoided.

Tbh that thought never crossed my mind until now, which just about sums up my knowledge of computers :pac:

Antar Bolaeisk

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Start8 and you get all the speed benefits of Windows 8 without the crap metro ****, best of both worlds

brenbrady wrote: »

iobit also has a version called startmenu8 which you can download for free on cnet.com. Stardock also have a version for $4.99.

Why are you doing this crazy thing? Yes the metro apps are terrible but the start screen is actually kinda useful, not that you need to really use it at all anyway, winkey + first few letter of what you're looking for + enter and you're done. The start menu has been redundant since Vista once they introduced the search box.

I hate having to use XP nowadays as I'm forced to resort to the old way of drilling down through menus.

FrostyJack

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

I hate having to use XP nowadays as I'm forced to resort to the old way of drilling down through menus.

That is why Xp is the worst thing ever created. That and having to manually install drivers, bsod and lock ups. Vista had it's issues which 7 just about fixed. I still have to use Xp in work sometimes and it makes me :mad:

gurramok

Karsini wrote: »

If you disable secure boot but leave UEFI booting enabled then Windows 8 still runs, just with secure boot off.

That solution didn't work on my sisters brand new laptop. Endless Googling only offered the alternative of wiping the pre-installed Win8 in order to install win7 for dual booting, she opted to keep Win8 as the shop(major store) refused to supply a backup copy of Win8.

FrostyJack

FrostyJack wrote: »

That is why Xp is the worst thing ever created. That and having to manually install drivers, bsod and lock ups. Vista had it's issues which 7 just about fixed. I still have to use Xp in work sometimes and it makes me :mad:

Blue screens in XP are not normal. If you said Windows 95 or 98 I'd agree with you but not XP.

Antar Bolaeisk

FrostyJack wrote: »

That is why Xp is the worst thing ever created. That and having to manually install drivers, bsod and lock ups. Vista had it's issues which 7 just about fixed. I still have to use Xp in work sometimes and it makes me :mad:

Lucky for you Microsoft will be discontinuing support for Windows XP this time next year. I'm sure that will convince your company, and many others, to finally give it up and thus boost computer sales.

Yeah, right.

Ruu

Does it have Hotdog Stand theme? If not then don't want to know!

FrostyJack

Karsini wrote: »

Blue screens in XP are not normal. If you said Windows 95 or 98 I'd agree with you but not XP.

Rarely had it with 98 ME, 95 yes. I had several decent spec rigs in Xp (and used friends) and they all had bsod and constant lockups. Nightmare. Even Word used to bring it down. Drives me mad to have people say Xp was great and Vista was a joke. Maybe some people were lucky.

FrostyJack

FrostyJack wrote: »

Rarely had it with 98 ME, 95 yes. I had several decent spec rigs in Xp (and used friends) and they all had bsod and constant lockups. Nightmare. Even Word used to bring it down. Drives me mad to have people say Xp was great and Vista was a joke. Maybe some people were lucky.

The only time I had stability issues with XP was when I was doing custom builds without doing my homework first. Any brand name machine I've gotten with XP installed (and later builds when I got more experience) was rock solid.

If Word was enough to crash the OS then something was seriously wrong and it wasn't XP. Possibly RAM or PSU.

Peregrine

FrostyJack wrote: »

That is why Xp is the worst thing ever created. That and having to manually install drivers, bsod and lock ups. Vista had it's issues which 7 just about fixed. I still have to use Xp in work sometimes and it makes me :mad:

You take that back..:mad:

Windows 8 without Metro > Windows 7 > Windows XP > Everything else > Windows Vista.


Dual booting Ubuntu on Windows 8 is a bitch with Secure boot but luckily there's a way around it

Seachmall

FrostyJack wrote: »

Can you play Battlefield etc on Ubuntu?

Most people don't play Battlefield and most people don't need Windows specific software.

If you do either of those things then Windows is obviously the best choice, but most people, or at least most people I know, don't.

FrostyJack

Karsini wrote: »

If Word was enough to crash the OS then something was seriously wrong and it wasn't XP. Possibly RAM or PSU.

I had variable systems, all were in the higher end of spec, all were on latest service pack. Maybe I was just jinxed.

Nimrod 7 wrote:

Windows 8 without Metro > Windows 7 > Windows XP > Everything else > Windows Vista.

Dual booting Ubuntu on Windows 8 is a bitch with Secure boot but luckily there's a way around it

Bar taking up half the HDD Vista was a dream compare to the previous versions, maybe at a professional level, Vista was inferior, that was not my experince. Dual boot on Win 7 is the perfect combination.

johnmcdnl

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Why are you doing this crazy thing? Yes the metro apps are terrible but the start screen is actually kinda useful, not that you need to really use it at all anyway, winkey + first few letter of what you're looking for + enter and you're done. The start menu has been redundant since Vista once they introduced the search box.

I hate having to use XP nowadays as I'm forced to resort to the old way of drilling down through menus.

The start screen is ridiculously ugly in my book, also new start screen can't do anything the old one doesn't do already, and finally its much nicer when you search for something in the old start menu as it shows settings as well as programs without having to click on the tabs in metro start to choose whether your searching for programs, settings or files

Antar Bolaeisk

FrostyJack wrote: »

Bar taking up half the HDD Vista was a dream compare to the previous versions, maybe at a professional level, Vista was inferior, that was not my experince. Dual boot on Win 7 is the perfect combination.

Vista caught a lot of flak as it was released on inferior hardware. It was actually a rather decent OS, at least the x64 version was, but many people's memories of it were that of an incredibly slow and ugly looking OS. These people were generally trying to run it on hardware that I wouldn't even run XP on.

The funny thing is that 7 is pretty much a re-skinned Vista (with some refinements that do improve performance a bit), however, with the release of Windows 7 hardware had started to catch up which, coupled with the performance tweaks, led to a much better reception.

Dravokivich

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Lucky for you Microsoft will be discontinuing support for Windows XP this time next year. I'm sure that will convince your company, and many others, to finally give it up and thus boost computer sales.

Yeah, right.

There can be products in use, that mean its not feasible to upgrade the OS. Particularly in a corp environment. One I used to provide support for was still using NT4 upto 4/5 years ago. Even then migrating to XP, with compatability issues for their software. But couldn't get pc's or hardware for pc's to run NT4 anymore.

Antar Bolaeisk

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Vista caught a lot of flak as it was released on inferior hardware. It was actually a rather decent OS, at least the x64 version was, but many people's memories of it were that of an incredibly slow and ugly looking OS. These people were generally trying to run it on hardware that I wouldn't even run XP on.

The funny thing is that 7 is pretty much a re-skinned Vista (with some refinements that do improve performance a bit), however, with the release of Windows 7 hardware had started to catch up which, coupled with the performance tweaks, led to a much better reception.

The amount of machines that were released with 1GB of RAM on Vista was horrendous. There were even some with 512MB which was completely insane.

Funnily enough, I always found 64-bit Vista to be much slower than the 32-bit version. The only time I got it running well was when I did a Sandy Bridge i5 build with a SSD and reused the customer's existing retail Vista licence.

FrostyJack

Seachmall wrote: »

Most people don't play Battlefield and most people don't need Windows specific software.

If you do either of those things then Windows is obviously the best choice, but most people, or at least most people I know, don't.

Yes but they may do in the future and you cannot go back (without buying windows obviously). It is hard enough to teach old/stupid people to use Windows, I would will pull out my hair showing them Ubuntu or the likes.

Seachmall

FrostyJack wrote: »

Yes but they may do in the future and you cannot go back (without buying windows obviously). It is hard enough to teach old/stupid people to use Windows, I would will pull out my hair showing them Ubuntu or the likes.

There are videos of old(er) people using different OSs on YouTube. Mac and *Nix ones tend to fair far better than Windows 8.

Which is odd, you'd expect Microsoft to have a crack UI design team. Although maybe it's expected with Windows 8.