Why Trains Lose Money

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

Like bk, not meaning to backseat anything, but attacking a poster because you don't like their post.... why not just ignore the thread.

Now back on topic. Does anyone remember trains on the Maynooth line in the 1990s? Standing room was in the guards van, and you alighted into the ditch. I know as I was there!

I remember the Maynooth trains, Especially the 2pm one which started in Sligo, was usually freezing, packed to the doors and flooded with the overflow from the stinking toilets. Back then there were only 2 dedicated Maynooth commuter services morning and evening but usually one of them failed and passengers were forced onto the Sligo/Mullingar trains or onto the auld reliable 66. Remembering journeys like those is what drives people to buying cars or getting the much improved buses!

n97 mini

To treat customers with contempt do you not have to have a relationship with them in the first place?

I don't think IE has a relationship with any customers.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Standing on a commuter train which has been specifically designed to carry standees is a hell of a lot different to standing on a packed intercity with the catering trolley and all the other passengers pushing past you going to the toilets. The 22000's were not designed to have people standing in the aisles or at the doors, this must constitute a health & safety issue as there are no hand rails for passengers to steady themselves and the trains are not exactly stable with the state of the rails.

Packed and the trolley and people were still able to walk through the carriages???? How "Packed" was this train?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Contempt Foggy????? Thats a slight overreaction dont you think?

Why not respond to this post?

foggy_lad wrote: »

Standing on a commuter train which has been specifically designed to carry standees is a hell of a lot different to standing on a packed intercity with the catering trolley and all the other passengers pushing past you going to the toilets. The 22000's were not designed to have people standing in the aisles or at the doors, this must constitute a health & safety issue as there are no hand rails for passengers to steady themselves and the trains are not exactly stable with the state of the rails.

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Like bk, not meaning to backseat anything, but attacking a poster because you don't like their post.... why not just ignore the thread.

Now back on topic. Does anyone remember trains on the Maynooth line in the 1990s? Standing room was in the guards van, and you alighted into the ditch. I know as I was there!

Thats not the topic though . The topic seems to be a busy train somehow losing money.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Packed and the trolley and people were still able to walk through the carriages???? How "Packed" was this train?

I personally think that once any person is standing on a train the trolley should be packed up and sale of hot food/drinks stopped due to the risk of standing passengers being scalded.

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Remembering journeys like those is what drives people to buying cars or getting the much improved buses!

I actually don't agree. As someone who lives on the line, it makes me complain to my local TDs etc., and try to get the service improved. It has done (Ma Harney was at the helm for most of it), but there is still lots of room for improvement, and I won't stop complaining.

The buses, don't get me started. Leixlip is one of the biggest employment centres in Ireland yet a town with a population of 14,000 that's 4 miles away (Celbridge) has to rely on company (funded by HP and Intel) to get people to work as Dublin Bus fail to see any need.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I remember the Maynooth trains, Especially the 2pm one which started in Sligo, was usually freezing, packed to the doors and flooded with the overflow from the stinking toilets. Back then there were only 2 dedicated Maynooth commuter services morning and evening but usually one of them failed and passengers were forced onto the Sligo/Mullingar trains or onto the auld reliable 66. Remembering journeys like those is what drives people to buying cars or getting the much improved buses!

Of course Foggy, someone remembers a journey they made a number of years ago so they buy a car instead. It make perfect sense .

Improved buses? You gave out about them earlier.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I personally think that once any person is standing on a train the trolley should be packed up and sale of hot food/drinks stopped due to the risk of standing passengers being scalded.

You wont get scalded by a ham sandwich and a can of coke.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why not respond to this post?

What post?

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

To treat customers with contempt do you not have to have a relationship with them in the first place?

I don't think IE has a relationship with any customers.

Im sure a few have relatives working there

devnull

Again the criticism of Irish Rail is over the top - once again I'm far from their biggest fan but whilst buses have effected their passengers, it's being took out of all proportion as usual and the bus services as N97 mini has pointed out, are far from perfect in some cases too.

LXFlyer

foggy_lad wrote: »

People on the Waterford route don't have much choice since we had our bus service cut back and apparently synced with the train departures!

Bus Éireann cut the buses so at peak times the frequency is one every 3 hours, there is no Bus leaving Waterford between 3pm and 6pm meaning Carlow has no service to Dublin between 4.10pm and 7.10pm.

Then as if planned Irish Rail cut out their late afternoon service from Waterford at 4.50pm which stopped in Carlow at 6pm. When a company treat their customers with such contempt they cant realistically hope to keep them for very long.

Carlow should have the same sort of frequent bus service as several other large towns but it appears to be operated from Waterford so nothing will change for the benefit of passengers. Even with the hand-me-down buses off the 002 route which have the computerised/gps journey timer/log, I noticed recently that this excellent feature which tells the drivers if they are early or late is not being used on the Dublin-Waterford buses even though it is fitted in most buses.

In your post you seem to forget about JJ Kavanagh?

They have buses at 17:10 and 18:45 from Carlow to Dublin which fill the gap, in addition to 11 other departures.

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

In your post you seem to forget about JJ Kavanagh?

They have buses at 17:10 and 18:45 from Carlow to Dublin which fill the gap, in addition to 11 other departures.

They are not listed on the NTA jourrney planner so shoukd we be using those services if there are issues with their licencing?

Also they are never on time and so slow you're often better off waiting for the next train or bus eireann bus.

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

I personally think that once any person is standing on a train the trolley should be packed up and sale of hot food/drinks stopped due to the risk of standing passengers being scalded.

and there we go into the ridiculous over the top "won't someone please think of the children" H&S nonsense. Is the trolley-dolly going to start throwing boiling water at them just because they're standing or will they automatically loose the ability to hold a cup?
Up until this I was just about willing to take this thread seriously but now you are just trying to find pedantic reasons to continue bitching about IE despite ignoring much of the replies and discussion already in the thread.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and there we go into the ridiculous over the top "won't someone please think of the children" H&S nonsense. Is the trolley-dolly going to start throwing boiling water at them just because they're standing or will they automatically loose the ability to hold a cup?
Up until this I was just about willing to take this thread seriously but now you are just trying to find pedantic reasons to continue bitching about IE despite ignoring much of the replies and discussion already in the thread.

Try holding onto a cup of tea or coffee when standing at the toilets or door on the train wishing you had some grab rail to hold onto while being bounced around.

MGWR

markpb wrote: »

Standing for up to 30 minutes on a suburban/urban train is fine. Standing for over an hour on a (sort of) intercity train is not. I definitely wouldn't be going back to Irish Rail (as opposed to Dart/Suburban) if I had to stand

Ever stood on an intercity bus? There were times that I had to. Only hand-holds were on the luggage racks, and they were rather slippery. Now that's a bumpy, jarry ride and in an aisle too narrow to walk past other passengers on.

MGWR

foggy_lad wrote: »

Try holding onto a cup of tea or coffee when standing at the toilets or door on the train wishing you had some grab rail to hold onto while being bounced around.

Tea or coffee on the train? I must be too old. That was for trains with snack cars, back in the day. Welcome to austerity as dictated by the EU, where tea and/or coffee is a right.

LXFlyer

foggy_lad wrote: »

They are not listed on the NTA jourrney planner so shoukd we be using those services if there are issues with their licencing?

Also they are never on time and so slow you're often better off waiting for the next train or bus eireann bus.

You've previously complained about the NTA not including Kavanagh in the journey planner and been very indignant about it, now you are blaming Kavanagh's.

Frankly, from reading all of these and other posts, it would appear that none of the transport providers serving Carlow will ever meet your requirements.

You've previously posted about how BE are consistently late, and about the standard of vehicles.

Is there any transport provider that you don't have a gripe with? Because otherwise I can only suggest that you invest in a car?

Richard Logue

foggy_lad wrote: »

I personally think that once any person is standing on a train the trolley should be packed up and sale of hot food/drinks stopped due to the risk of standing passengers being scalded.

Ever travelled inter city in Europe or the UK? Standing in the vestibules and aisles is not uncommon especially at peak times. UK inter city train fares are far more expensive than in Ireland, especially the walk on fares. I have had to travel from Euston to Manchester at short notice on occasions and had to stand after paying out £150 for the fare.

Believe it or not overcrowding is far more severe elsewhere than in Ireland and the hot drinks trolleys still make their way down the aisles.

Richard Logue

lxflyer wrote: »

You've previously complained about the NTA not including Kavanagh in the journey planner and been very indignant about it, now you are blaming Kavanagh's.

Frankly, from reading all of these and other posts, it would appear that none of the transport providers serving Carlow will ever meet your requirements.

You've previously posted about how BE are consistently late, and about the standard of vehicles.

Is there any transport provider that you don't have a gripe with? Because otherwise I can only suggest that you invest in a car?

I would urge anyone with a genuine complaint to contact Irish Rail, or BE or Kavanaghs or whoever provides the service.

I would question the reasons why anyone would post a complaint here and not contact the service provider concerned if that person felt there was a genuine reason to complain. This is after all a board on the internet. It wont resolve any issues any individual may have with a transport provider.

If any individual believes the transport provider is not giving a good enough response then the NTA should be contacted or even the Ombudsman. There are mechanisms for solving complaints or greivances with Irish Government bodies. Boards.ie is not part of the complaints structure.

corktina

i think that the problem in this particular case is that IE are toolazy/inefficent to factor in increasing the number of cars for this particular journey, preferring to start the day with three cars and staying that way right through the shift. Carlow is not a million miles from Port Laoise and there are usually spare units sat there earning no revenue

I found the comment that people are used to having to stand up and accept it quite startling. I'm sure many of the people who now drive or use the bus, do so BECAUSE they were fed up at not being able to get a seat or at having a standing passengers bum in their face for an hour if they did get one!

Also, so what if the buses arent full? In an ideal situation you would have x amount of spare capacity to allow for flexibility and growth. It's called forward-planning. It seems to me that IE do things "because this is the way we always have done it". However to provide a good service that grows you need to stay ahead of the game, and if that includes picking up another 3 piece when demand is there, so be it.

Richard Logue

Corktina I would agree that more cars should be added during the day if more capacity is needed or anticipated. Is the extra cost fuel cost involved in running extra cars not a factor though? Maybe that's why IE don't add more cars? Not defending the practice just wondering.

LXFlyer

The very fact that the trolley was apparently able to proceed through the train should perhaps focus minds on how many people were standing. If there were dozens standing it simply would not have been able to continue.

No it's not an ideal situation, but I suspect that it's not quite the train to Calcutta that its being painted as.

Also, Corktina this year from what we have read the amount of sets in service has an awful lot more to do with cost than anything else, given we know that a certain number of sets are out of use at any given time.

Also if you read further up the thread this is the first train that set operates as it overnights in Waterford - you would have to have another set on the train down the previous night.

Presumably the set rosters would have to be rejigged, but perhaps something similar to the solution last summer could be found - a spare set was sent from Dublin to join at Carlow - it really depends upon whether the demand warrants it. As I said, if the trolley could still move through the train then one has to wonder.

Richard Logue

If the trolley can move through the train it means that maybe a few people are standing.

Maybe this is really about perspective rather than reality? I have often been on a Dart or a Kildare line train where one or two people are standing and you hear them complaining about overcrowding.

Try commuting on the London tube or railways every day! Now that's overcrowding...

monument

foggy_lad wrote: »

I personally think that once any person is standing on a train the trolley should be packed up and sale of hot food/drinks stopped due to the risk of standing passengers being scalded.

I can't make out if this is trolling or not.

Your suggestion would mean that it's only safe for the trolley to move around when everybody is sitting down. Even on a half empty train there's always people moving about when the trolley is.

You're trolling or you're being incredibly silly. This thread is closed.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Try holding onto a cup of tea or coffee when standing at the toilets or door on the train wishing you had some grab rail to hold onto while being bounced around.

Just spotted this after posting the above... if the problem is people standing holding hot drinks, that's equally as daft because it would also mean it is unsafe for people to walk from the on-train shop back to their seats.

It just seems like you're grasping at straws as to why there should never be anybody standing.

monument

bk wrote: »

Folks, I apologise for the back seat modding, but I have to say the rules of boards are very clear.

The most important rule is attack the post not the poster.

If the poster posts something that breaks the rules of boards, report it and leave it to the mods to deal with.

If you just don't like the poster, just put him on your ignore list.

Simple

Somebody reported this post. Just to be very clear:

Back seat modding is not usually tolerated but bk above is saying exactly what I have said a number of times in the recent past and the largest issue mods here have to deal with is posters somehow not understanding or easily forgetting the attack the post not the poster rule.