ironman cycle help

Worn Out

Hi. I am taking part in ironman zurich at the end of july but am struggling with the cycling. The problem is that after 4 hours on the bike I am simply exhausted, I've done about 10 cycles each around 100k but then I run out of energy. Took 2 bottles of high 5 and a couple of gels today but still tired at the end, granted the last 20k was into a strong head wind. I cycle to work every day and get on the turbo too once or twice a week.

Put simply, will I break through this barrier in a week or two as I don't think I can run a marathon at the present rate of performance?

Many thanks

tunney

Some more calories will help.

Aim for 3 units of energy product an hour (one bar == one gel == one bottle == one unit).

Also it is entirely possible you are cycling faster than you are able to. Ride easier than you think you should be.

griffin100

Your nutrition as Tunney says seems very light. For me an IM bike means a gel every 20mins supplemented with a solid item of food every hr (banana, ride shots or fruit pastilles) if I feel I need it. Towards the end of the bike I might use a couple of caffeinated gels for a boost.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

What is sporting background, starting from scratch or coming from something?

Worn Out

I've run probably a dozen marathons so am fairly used to longer events. Took part in the Galway 70.3 twice and finished around 6 hours.

Always been sporty just struggling with the 100k plus cycle and the thoughts of a marathon after.

Appreciate the nutrition advice. Hoped the 1.5l of high five 4:1 would have helped today but maybe the Connemara conditions beat me today.

Am training around 10 hours a week min at present so could be feeling the effects too.

Cheers all

BennyMul

do you eat correctly before you set off on a long spin?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

It sounds like pacing is an issue being honest. You should not need to take that much nutrition on for a 100k training spin. Do you have a hrm? Established zones? What effort levels are you riding at on these spins.

tunney

Jazmine Gifted Ladyfinger wrote: »

It sounds like pacing is an issue being honest. You should not need to take that much nutrition on for a 100k training spin. Do you have a hrm? Established zones? What effort levels are you riding at on these spins.

Depends on the person, some do, some don't. Don't assume all have you experience of time in the saddle!

Worn Out

Most of my cycles are start at around 0700 so I would normally have a bowl of honey, vitamin drink and a strong coffee.

I did use a HRM yesterday and averaged 72% for the 4 hours. My pace yesterday was ave 25.6km/h but this dropped significantly from around 28km/h in the last hour as I battled with the headwinds along the coast. The cycle had 750 mtr's of climbing but this is not unlike the Zurich course.

One thing I didn't mention is that I am a (fish eating) vegetarian. My diet is reasonably good with lots of fruit, carbs and fish every day. I started eating fish around 5 years ago when I started exercising harder.

I've 15 weeks to go so with the extra training, nutrition, better sleep and more focus hopefully I can crack this. It's just odd that I am finding a 4 hour cycle so difficult.

Thanks all...

tunney

when did you last get bloods done?

tunney

Worn Out wrote: »

Most of my cycles are start at around 0700 so I would normally have a bowl of honey, vitamin drink and a strong coffee.

I did use a HRM yesterday and averaged 72% for the 4 hours. My pace yesterday was ave 25.6km/h but this dropped significantly from around 28km/h in the last hour as I battled with the headwinds along the coast. The cycle had 750 mtr's of climbing but this is not unlike the Zurich course.

One thing I didn't mention is that I am a (fish eating) vegetarian. My diet is reasonably good with lots of fruit, carbs and fish every day. I started eating fish around 5 years ago when I started exercising harder.

I've 15 weeks to go so with the extra training, nutrition, better sleep and more focus hopefully I can crack this. It's just odd that I am finding a 4 hour cycle so difficult.

Thanks all...

the graph of the session would be more telling than average HR

Worn Out

I wouldn't have a graph of the hrm as I only use a basic polar watch.

The blood test is a great idea. I was checked about 2 years ago and everything was good, including very low cholesterol. Probably down to all the fish.

Briando

It sounds like you try and run yourself on sugar and are not well adapted to fueling from fat.

tunney

Briando wrote: »

It sounds like you try and run yourself on sugar and are not well adapted to fueling from fat.

Everyone can fuel an IM cycle completely from fat. What matters is the wattage that they can hold when doing so.

It's been said already here - pacing.The OP isn't as bike fit as they think and need to ride slower IMHO.

Briando

tunney wrote: »

Everyone can fuel an IM cycle completely from fat. What matters is the wattage that they can hold when doing so.

It's been said already here - pacing.The OP isn't as bike fit as they think and need to ride slower IMHO.

I didnt suggest you were wrong Tunney. My point was not 'instead of riding slower just change what you eat', just another thing he should also consider. They are not mutually exclusive.

Eating sugar for breakfast, eating sugar all day during the cycles, doesn't do a lot for the insulin levels in your blood, getting you to store the energy as fat and feeling low despite taking in what seems like a lot of calories. I'd suggest the OP experiment with not consuming so much sugar and go for something to provide a steady release of energy through out the ride.

This guy explains it all very well and back up everything he says with research.
http://www.optimumnutrition4sport.com/

Site seems a little flaky right now, but when its working its some of the best and most sensible explanation on how to fuel for endurance sport. Spend a couple of hours there and you'll be armed with the knowledge you'll need for ironman.

kingQuez

Can't comment on the pacing, but for the food -- I'd get through a 100k on a couple of gels and a bit of water, but I'd be fairly tired and the idea of running off the bike wouldn't be a pleasant one.

These days I'd eat something between that and the recommendation that Tunny made about 3 "units" an hour during training, geting closer to the full 3 units as cycles get longer and I get closer to races. Legs would still be tired, but there's plenty of energy without that "bonk" feeling as you finish up.

littlemsfickle

Worn Out wrote: »

Most of my cycles are start at around 0700 so I would normally have a bowl of honey, vitamin drink and a strong coffee.

I did use a HRM yesterday and averaged 72% for the 4 hours. My pace yesterday was ave 25.6km/h but this dropped significantly from around 28km/h in the last hour as I battled with the headwinds along the coast. The cycle had 750 mtr's of climbing but this is not unlike the Zurich course.

One thing I didn't mention is that I am a (fish eating) vegetarian. My diet is reasonably good with lots of fruit, carbs and fish every day. I started eating fish around 5 years ago when I started exercising harder.

I've 15 weeks to go so with the extra training, nutrition, better sleep and more focus hopefully I can crack this. It's just odd that I am finding a 4 hour cycle so difficult.

Thanks all...

a bowl of honey?

Worn Out

Sorry it was porridge with honey.

Worn Out

Hi all.

I appreciate all the responses and thoughts. There is just so much to consider when doing a crazy endurance event such as this.

I will take all of your ideas on board and continue to train hard for the event but with more considered pace, diet, rest, sleep, etc. a trip to the doctors would be of benefit too.

I can't wait for the big day, but will aim to finish in one piece and enjoy the 2 week family holiday in Switzerland after.

BennyMul

I would take the pacing comments on board for your next long spin, set a cap on the HR, (72% for the 4 hours says noting if the first 2 hours were @90%)
now is the time to get pacing and food right as 6 hours in to the IM is a bad time to realise you used the wrong strategy.

Good luck with the big day,

longshank

Worn Out wrote: »

Hi all.

I appreciate all the responses and thoughts. There is just so much to consider when doing a crazy endurance event such as this.

I will take all of your ideas on board and continue to train hard for the event but with more considered pace, diet, rest, sleep, etc. a trip to the doctors would be of benefit too.

I can't wait for the big day, but will aim to finish in one piece and enjoy the 2 week family holiday in Switzerland after.

and dont worry too much about the cycle leg in zurich the hills arent too bad the road surface is so much better than irl u hardly notice the climbing and the scenery keeps u distracted! and run is pan flat;-)

dario28

just finished the chapter in Chrissie Wellingtons book where she goes through race prep and nutrition

On the bike she eats/drinks 1 gram of carbs per kilo of body weight per hour and then has 1 gel every 25 mins on the marathon

2 hours before the race she has 500 calories of simples carbs and a small amt of fat and protein

Tuna and pasta the night before

Worn Out

Hi All,

Many thanks for your advice, all of which was encouraging and taken on board.
Today's cycle was the most satisfying of 2013. My 120km ride took me all around Lough Corrib and I finished with plenty left in the tank. Went straight into a 20 min slow run with my 7 year old daughter for company. Happy Days.

Thought I'd share a photo I took on route this morning of the Maam Valley.
Simply stunning.

IMG_1671.JPG

Tom__JNR

Get some protein bars before, during and after. Remember, carbs are fuel but protein build your body.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Was it down to pacing?

Worn Out

I am certainly pacing myself more carefully and keeping the Heart Rate down. My pace is more controlled and I am taking my time up the hills. I am consuming more liquid, fuel, gels and protein too.
Next Saturday is a five hour ride which will tell me even more about my fitness, I hope to head deeper into Connemara and explore more of its beauty.

All the best.

HenoC

Seeing as it's been mentioned here already, how much of a diference do the roads in Europe actually make to your speed? I'm not looking for precise figures or anything but I've spoken to a couple of people and they say that there's no comparision between our roads and the ones on the continent.

I'm doing Frankfurt IM in July but have never cycled in Europe before. Currently doing all my cycles on Irish roads (obviously enough) and have been using Gatorskins (to avoid those pesky punctures) so I'm hoping the combination of race wheels and a better surface will help push my avg speed up from what I'm currently doing, with the same effort etc.

tunney

HenoC wrote: »

Seeing as it's been mentioned here already, how much of a diference do the roads in Europe actually make to your speed? I'm not looking for precise figures or anything but I've spoken to a couple of people and they say that there's no comparision between our roads and the ones on the continent.

I'm doing Frankfurt IM in July but have never cycled in Europe before. Currently doing all my cycles on Irish roads (obviously enough) and have been using Gatorskins (to avoid those pesky punctures) so I'm hoping the combination of race wheels and a better surface will help push my avg speed up from what I'm currently doing, with the same effort etc.

Frankfurt roles fast.

1-2kph for free. Two cobbled sections that will rattle things loose. Nice course, well supported.

Bring winter gear as can be somewhat Goldiloks.

zico10

Tom__JNR wrote: »

Get some protein bars before, during and after. Remember, carbs are fuel but protein build your body.

Before, during and after? That's a lot of protein bars. Are you sure about that?

tunney

zico10 wrote: »

Before, during and after? That's a lot of protein bars. Are you sure about that?

Its perfectly reasonable and I'm surprised you are questioning it zico10. I would have thought that someone as experienced as yourself would know better. I thought everyone knew the best way to massively smelly farts was excessive protein consumption.

BTH

tunney wrote: »

Its perfectly reasonable and I'm surprised you are questioning it zico10. I would have thought that someone as experienced as yourself would know better. I thought everyone knew the best way to massively smelly farts was excessive protein consumption.

Farting makes you go faster, right? I'm gonna be super quick this year so :pac: