Munster v Leinster post match thread **read post 1

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

posted elsewhere



http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/6632.php

what has Hayes got to do with any of this

Buer

Eoin wrote: »

It's hard to tell from the replays, but it looks like he's trying to go around his head to kick the ball.

Also, I just find it very hard to believe that he would do something like that deliberately.

On another note, how the touch judge either missed it or immediately concluded it was an accident is beyond me.

I don't anyone for a second would think POC did it deliberately. It was simply clumsy. I thought it would be 50/50 on whether he was cited simply due to the nature of Irish citings. If he was cited, I think he'd get a 2 week rest which is fairly short but would have been hugely significant.

It's all done now so time to move on. Zebre and Dragons to be put to the sword this weekend now for the teams! Hopefully a couple of wins for both!

Neil3030

jm08 wrote: »

The way the citing works is if the Citing Officer hadn't dealt well enough with a situation or not.

Think of it this way - if POC deserved a Red Card, the offence is citable.

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

Well imo he did deserve a red. Not sure where the laws would stand on this, but if your actions (regardless of intent) are so dangerous as to almost certainly cause harm, you should be sent off, imo.

puntosporting

Delighted with the decision

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

Do not, even for a ****ing second, attempt to put any blame for this on Kearney. It is both ludicrous and disgusting to suggest that.

Aidric

copacetic wrote: »

I'd say O'Connell has seriously affected his chances of Lions captaincy and maybe even selection anyway with his erratic captaincy and loss of control on Saturday.

Nonsense. Saying he lost control you are intimating that this was pre meditated. It wasn't.

copacetic wrote: »

Or at least I've personally lost a lot of respect for a player I couldn't have had much more for up until now.

Why? He is still the same man and player. A careless incident doesn't change that.

Sundy

jm08 wrote: »

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

Haha thats special..

CIARAN_BOYLE

twinytwo wrote: »

what has Hayes got to do with any of this

It was an accidental act that was cited.

molloyjh

leakyboots wrote: »

Cool your jets, this is my first post on the issue on here. And I disagree with you.

I'm all for differing opinions, but I'm sorry I have to call you on this. You're just plain wrong. As has been pointed out intent is irrelevant. If intent was such a deciding factor then Hayes wouldn't have been suspended for 6 weeks in 2009. And what Hayes did was arguably not as bad as what POC did. Healy played on that day. Kearney didn't, and won't for a few weeks at least. As I also pointed out previously this is something that is looked at when determining sanctions.

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

And here we were thinking it was POC's fault for kicking Kearneys head on the ground potentially breaking his neck or the citing commissioners fault for blatantly letting O'Connell off the hook-when all the time it was Kearneys fault for laying the ball back on the ground in text book fashion! Well Kearney must be immediately punished so with a six month ban!

Chucky the tree

copacetic wrote: »

I'd say O'Connell has seriously affected his chances of Lions captaincy and maybe even selection anyway with his erratic captaincy and loss of control on Saturday.

:pac:

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

what has Hayes got to do with any of this

evidence of special treatment!

What you asked for!

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

WOW

copacetic

jm08 wrote: »

The way the citing works is if the Citing Officer hadn't dealt well enough with a situation or not.

Think of it this way - if POC deserved a Red Card, the offence is citable.

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

Agreed, recklessly put his head right between the boot and the ball. Possibly he could still be cited for potential damage to O'Connells foot? He was also reckless the way he let himself be taken out in the air and fall dazed to the ground, he could be looking at a long ban in fact

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Do not, even for a ****ing second, attempt to put any blame for this on Kearney. It is both ludicrous and disgusting to suggest that.

Well, I bet he (or any other young player) will never do it again. Players have responsbility for their own safety as well.

Dravokivich

molloyjh wrote: »

That's part of the problem. He should have been paying attention to Kearneys head.

I know, I was answering the guys question.

I made a comment a few posts earlier stating that there should be a citing based on ignorance of the welfare of another player and even then, he should have picked up the ball instead of trying to kick it. That very action shows where his attention was drawn.

molloyjh

twinytwo wrote: »

what has Hayes got to do with any of this

A fairly similar incident with a completely polar opposite outcome. A universally respected "clean" player accidentally making violent contact with an opponents head.

Aidric wrote: »

Nonsense. Saying he lost control you are intimating that this was pre meditated. It wasn't.

If it's premeditated then he hasn't lost control.

Aidric wrote: »

Why? He is still the same man and player. A careless incident doesn't change that.

I'd agree with that.

Rightwing

The hysteria here is laughable.

Decision has been made. Get over it.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Well, I bet he (or any other young player) will never do it again. Players have responsbility for their own safety as well.

good man POC.

Teach them darn kids a lesson.

For ****'s sake

Bits_n_Bobs

I've read in some online Munster forums that there are rumours of D Kearny being cited for attempting to damage POC's foot.

Paddywiggum

Rightwing wrote: »

The hysteria here is laughable.

Decision has been made. Get over it.

No lets keep this going! :pac:

leakyboots

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm all for differing opinions, but I'm sorry I have to call you on this. You're just plain wrong. As has been pointed out intent is irrelevant. If intent was such a deciding factor then Hayes wouldn't have been suspended for 6 weeks in 2009. And what Hayes did was arguably not as bad as what POC did. Healy played on that day. Kearney didn't, and won't for a few weeks at least. As I also pointed out previously this is something that is looked at when determining sanctions.

Call away, I'm not just plain wrong, this is one which people will fall definitely on one side or the other. A referee I follow on twitter felt it was unfortunate but doesn't deserve a citing. "Injury was caused but not clear cut foul play".

LuckyLloyd

copacetic wrote: »

More worrying is that it isn't really the above. It's that it was a rabo game and the disciplinary procedures in the league are of a low standard.

If that was a Heineken cup game we all know he would have been cited and looking at a long ban. The rules are clear.

Having an Irish citing commissioner at a game between two Irish teams (when a citing would seriously risk the chances of a team in a Heineken cup semi and The player could possibly miss a lions tour) is laughable. Walsh was left in a terrible position, and took the easy option, calling in the question the entire leagues procedures.

I'd say O'Connell has seriously affected his chances of Lions captaincy and maybe even selection anyway with his erratic captaincy and loss of control on Saturday.

Or at least I've personally lost a lot of respect for a player I couldn't have had much more for up until now.

Jeez, some ridiculous stuff here.

Hope Kearney makes a full and speedy recovery but delighted O'Connell will rightly lead the lads into battle in France.

Sundy

jm08 wrote: »

Well, I bet he (or any other young player) will never do it again. Players have responsbility for their own safety as well.

you teach kids to play the ball back like that but its pretty obvious from your posts that you dont know much about rugby!

donfers

yawn what a boring circular debate

hang him, burn him at the stake, put him in jail, life ban

some of the reactions are hysterical and embarrassing

reckless seems to be the word the moderates are settling on

a marginal call, he got away with it, he will not be cited, put away your pitchforks and get over it

2 quick things

1. none of the players or officials, who i would trust far more than the armchair judges and jury reacted as if POC was a serial killer

2. have any of you played the game, if every reckless occurrence during a match was cited, there would be few players left to play the game

now can we get back to discussing rugby please instead of the usual bitching and whining and self-righteous indignation

Paddywiggum

Is there any call for POC to ban himself??

..just like for Tiger at the weekend...

awec

Munster Rugby and O'Connell himself are surely embarrassed by this decision. This is about as blatantly wrong as it gets.

Munster have been handed an absolute gift here. A gift, wrapped up in a pretty ribbon.

melekalikimaka

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Jeez, some ridiculous stuff here.

Hope Kearney makes a full and speedy recovery but delighted O'Connell will rightly lead the lads into battle in France.

be surprised if he will be able to lift his head with the shame. he knows himself he got out of this through mitigating factors. Probably lost his Lions prospects over it, IRFU might turn a blind eye, Gatland wont

Cool_CM

jm08 wrote: »

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

What? I think that it was fairly impressive that he still went to present after the landing that he had.

ssaye

donfers wrote: »

yawn what a boring circular debate

hang him, burn him at the stake, put him in jail, life ban

some of the reactions are hysterical and embarrassing

reckless seems to be the word the moderates are settling on

a marginal call, he got away with it, he will not be cited, put away your pitchforks and get over it

2 quick things

1. none of the players or officials, who i would trust far more than the armchair judges and jury reacted as if POC was a serial killer

2. have any of you played the game, if every reckless occurrence during a match was cited, there would be few players left to play the game

now can we get back to discussing rugby please instead of the usual bitching and whining and self-righteous indignation

Pretty sure this is against the charter.

Buer

donfers wrote: »

have any of you played the game

Hmmm, later than usual for that one to appear...

Micky Dolenz

awec wrote: »

Munster Rugby and O'Connell himself are surely embarrassed by this decision. This is about as blatantly wrong as it gets.

Munster have been handed an absolute gift here. A gift, wrapped up in a pretty ribbon.

I'm pretty sure they don't feel any of those things you mention.

jm08

Just heard what the citing officials said: POC's shin made contact with Kearney's head and his boot with the ball. Deemed it careless rather than anything else and not worthy of a Red Card.

awec

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they don't feel any of those things you mention.

They should.

jm08

Sundy wrote: »

you teach kids to play the ball back like that but its pretty obvious from your posts that you dont know much about rugby!

This isn't kids rugby, its grown up stuff. Who was he presenting the ball to? - No Leinster players in sight (if they were, POC would not have been able to attempt the kick).

The Leinster players reaction to it was for Boss to attempt a quick throw in (their natural reaction was that it wasn't a big deal).

LuckyLloyd

melekalikimaka wrote: »

be surprised if he will be able to lift his head with the shame. he knows himself he got out of this through mitigating factors. Probably lost his Lions prospects over it, IRFU might turn a blind eye, Gatland wont

Huh?

You think Gatland won't pick him over this? What an utterly ridiculous suggestion. Gatland is probably delighted he will get the Clermont game in and be available for selection.

almighty1

Podge_irl wrote: »

Do not, even for a ****ing second, attempt to put any blame for this on Kearney. It is both ludicrous and disgusting to suggest that.

Dont feed the troll.

Rightwing

Paddywiggum wrote: »

i think he should ban himself for the rest of the year. and buy dave kearney a house.

This sums it up!

Over and out for me from this thread.

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

D Kearney also was a bit reckless sticking a ball out like that with no protection as well.

You are a real piece of work.

Absolutely disgusting post.

almighty1

Rightwing wrote: »

This sums it up!

Over and out for me from this thread.

Dont let the door and all that.

LuckyLloyd

Also, it's an interesting point re the reaction of the panel on Saturday. Huge contrast with the hyperbole on here. Media assumed this morning that he wouldn't be cited compared to the certainty on here that he would face a ban.

Lol traditional media, Munster bias, etc - but they got this one right anyway.

Pudsy33

You can't kick someone in the head and get away with absolutely no punishment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is someone I'd never want to play rugby with or against.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Well there's numerous examples of that happening. Doesn't taste well for the fans but then who are they.

BTW, one of the reserve props (18 I think) might have a case to answer too, kick down on a leg in a ruck, very similar to Healy in the 6Ns.

I'm surprised and disappointed at this post.

jm08

Cool_CM wrote: »

What? I think that it was fairly impressive that he still went to present after the landing that he had.

It was the wrong thing to do in that situation (understandable as he had a poor landing).

POC should have dived on the ball though, rather than try to hack it away.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

This isn't kids rugby, its grown up stuff. Who was he presenting the ball to? - No Leinster players in sight (if they were, POC would not have been able to attempt the kick).

The Leinster players reaction to it was for Boss to attempt a quick throw in (their natural reaction was that it wasn't a big deal).

Whether there is someone to present the ball to or not you have to present the ball.

almighty1

jm08 wrote: »

It was the wrong thing to do in that situation (understandable as he had a poor landing).

What was his alternative?

Tox56

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also, it's an interesting point re the reaction of the panel on Saturday. Huge contrast with the hyperbole on here. Media assumed this morning that he wouldn't be cited compared to the certainty on here that he would face a ban.

Lol traditional media, Munster bias, etc - but they got this one right anyway.

What??? It's nothing to do with bias or favoritism of one team, he blatantly and recklessly kicked a defenseless player in the head and concussed him. There was no malice or intent but as has been explained 100 times THAT IS IRRELEVANT honestly are people watching something different to me..??

justsomebloke

It seems this thread has quickly turned into a **** storm so can't see any benefit it leaving it open as it will just result in bans left right and centre.

Leaving this closed while everyone has a breather. Obviously the POC kick topic is not to be opened as a new thread in the mean time