Clermont vs Munster buildup thread **read post one

Buer

I don't think being named in a team means that a player is necessarily fit at all. It's a judgement call often enough. I think we've all seen players being rushed back for big games and breaking down. David Wallace, for example, was never fit to take the field last year against Ulster. Luke Marshall wasn't fit to take the field against Italy. Earls is an important player and, if he's 80%, I think they'll play him.

totallegend

Clermont by 1-10

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

How could Earls possibly be 'match fit'? When was the last time he played?

The Ireland game in Rome AFAIK

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Now perhaps he's fit, but it takes a very special player (BOD or POC) to come straight back from an injury and slot back into the white heat of an away HEC semi. There's no way he's match fit.

Agreed, suppose it's a question of whether getting 50-60 minutes from an unfit Earls is better than starting with Hurley. I'd risk it.

jamiedav2011

totallegend wrote: »

The Ireland game in Rome AFAIK



Agreed, suppose it's a question of whether getting 50-60 minutes from an unfit Earls is better than starting with Hurley. I'd risk it.

Absolutely, I'd definitely start Earls.

However, the idea that he's match fit, or even that he wouldn't be passed by medical staff if he wasn't doesn't stand up.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

How could Earls possibly be 'match fit'? When was the last time he played?

Now perhaps he's fit, but it takes a very special player (BOD or POC) to come straight back from an injury and slot back into the white heat of an away HEC semi. There's no way he's match fit.

Unfortunately that's it. He'll be fit but not match fit. The game v Dragons would have been ideal for both himself and Howlett.

I expect to see them on the bench.

shuffol

IMO Earls usually takes a few games to get up to speed, he could end up being a liability if thrown straight in, particularly if at center.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

shuffol wrote: »

IMO Earls usually takes a few games to get up to speed, he could end up being a liability if thrown straight in, particularly if at center.

Putting him in at centre would be absurd seeing how well they played there v Quins, I can see why maybe someone might like to see Earls/Howlett on the wing.

totallegend

Clermont by 1-10

shuffol wrote: »

IMO Earls usually takes a few games to get up to speed, he could end up being a liability if thrown straight in, particularly if at center.

Ah he'll definitely play on the wing if he's picked.

14. Earls
13. Laulala

is unquantifiably better than

14. Hurley
13. Earls

.ak

Yeh plus Lualala's form from the Quins game should be rewarded.

totallegend

Clermont by 1-10

Earls, Howlett and DOC are in training anyway but no indication of how much heavy work or contact they're doing
http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1304154/

Grimebox

Clermont by 1-10

Risks have to be taken for this game. Earls ahead of Hurley for me. When can we expect the team to be announced?

ssaye

Grimebox wrote: »

Risks have to be taken for this game. Earls ahead of Hurley for me. When can we expect the team to be announced?

Friday lunch I presume

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Yeh plus Lualala's form from the Quins game should be rewarded.

Tell him to stop throwing around dumb offloads, error count must be near zero. They will pounce on anything.

little173

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tell him to stop throwing around dumb offloads, error count must be near zero. They will pounce on anything.

Yes - their pace and counter attacking is frightening. It will be interesting to see the game plan all round, the intensity and physicality has to be there but surely Munster have to keep it fairly tight.

trouttrout

LLL was an improvement against Quins, but I still felt he half butchered a try at one stage. Would have Earls ahead of him if fit enough

Podge_irl

Clermont by 1-10

It's not a straight decision between Earls and LLL though. You also have to factor in whether LLL at centre is better than hurley on the wing.

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not a straight decision between Earls and LLL though. You also have to factor in whether LLL at centre is better than hurley on the wing.

If the other players are on song with what Laulala is doing (most of time they're not) then Laulala at 13 is better than Hurley at 14.

I've seen a few Clermont matches with Regan King at 13, the difference is noticeable. His teammates are generally aware of what he will try and are in the right position to capitalise.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

Problem wasn't with LuaLua, it was Munster's gameplan. Stick to what we did v Quins and he'll do just fine.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

Problem wasn't with LuaLua, it was Munster's gameplan. Stick to what we did v Quins and he'll do just fine.

The ridiculous offloads and missed tackles that have blighted his season didn't have much to do with the gameplan

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

Problem wasn't with LuaLua, it was Munster's gameplan. Stick to what we did v Quins and he'll do just fine.

I don't think passing or offloading into touch forms the part of any gameplan.

who_me

Munster by more than 10

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tell him to stop throwing around dumb offloads, error count must be near zero. They will pounce on anything.

I can understand it though. Leinster's defence in his last game was outstanding, we really needed offloads in order to speed up our phase play. Every time the ball went to ground the defence reset and we were getting nowhere.

If Clermont's defence is as good/better, we'll need offloads in order to have any chance of breaking them down.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't think passing or offloading into touch forms the part of any gameplan.

When the gameplan is wrong, things just fall apart for players.

N Williams is a prime example of that up in Ulster. He couldn't do anything with Munster.

I'm backing lualua to put in a good performance v Clermont

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

When the gameplan is wrong, things just fall apart for players.

N Williams is a prime example of that up in Ulster. He couldn't do anything with Munster.

I'm backing lualua to put in a good performance v Clermont

He was injured/unfit throughout his time at Munster and never got a run of starts. Very hard to draw any conclusions from his time here, his only good performances were against Connacht at the Sportsground when he was used correctly and against Dragons when he was given the ball repeatedly and bulldozed a hat-trick of tries. When he did have a run of fitness, Coughlan was ahead of him in the pecking order by then.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

When the gameplan is wrong, things just fall apart for players.

N Williams is a prime example of that up in Ulster. He couldn't do anything with Munster.

I'm backing lualua to put in a good performance v Clermont

He was crocked then and behind better players, nothing to do with gameplan

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

thomond2006 wrote: »

He was injured/unfit throughout his time at Munster and never got a run of starts. Very hard to draw any conclusions from his time here, his only good performances were against Connacht at the Sportsground when he was used correctly and against Dragons when he was given the ball repeatedly and bulldozed a hat-trick of tries. When he did have a run of fitness, Coughlan was ahead of him in the pecking order by then.

I agree with that, but when things go wrong, players suffer, make silly mistakes, everything snowballs. Mafi was a fine player for us for years, then he became unrecognisably bad.

If we implement the same type of game that we used v Quins & Leinster, we won't be too far away on Saturday.

ionadnapokot

Munster by 1-10

just thought i'd bump this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAIROIC_7PE

Sivivatu really is playing some untouchable rugby right now ( i watch it at least every other day!)

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree with that, but when things go wrong, players suffer, make silly mistakes, everything snowballs. Mafi was a fine player for us for years, then he became unrecognisably bad.

If we implement the same type of game that we used v Quins & Leinster, we won't be too far away on Saturday.

You just twisted what I said and you know well you did.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

thomond2006 wrote: »

You just twisted what I said and you know well you did.

I didn't twist anything - my point remains the same: when the gameplan is wrong, players like lualua will look at lot worse than they are. That's effectively all I am saying. If we play smart he will be ok.

who_me

Munster by more than 10

ionadnapokot wrote: »

just thought i'd bump this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAIROIC_7PE

Sivivatu really is playing some untouchable rugby right now ( i watch it at least every other day!)

Nightmares.

LuckyLloyd

trouttrout wrote: »

Toulon v Clermont in Dublin will be more or less a 50/50 game

Saracens v Munster in Dublin would be a very close call

Toulon v Munster the same

Saracens v Clermont in Dublin and you would favor Clermont

So I don't know how you can say that the winner of this semi will go on to win it in such a matter of fact way

Munster wouldn't lose a final in Dublin.

Also, were Munster to make the final you would be forced to totally reassess their ability as the Clermont performance would have set a new benchmark.

I'd be shocked if the winner of Clermont / Munster doesn't win the final. Though, like last year, people will no doubt try to play up the chances of this year's Ulster equivalent.

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

I didn't twist anything - my point remains the same: when the gameplan is wrong, players like lualua will look at lot worse than they are. That's effectively all I am saying. If we play smart he will be ok.

Wrong

By "agreeing" with me, you were insinuating that I was agreeing with you in the first place. I wasn't. Quite the opposite. Gluck.

Tox56

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Munster wouldn't lose a final in Dublin.

Also, were Munster to make the final you would be forced to totally reassess their ability as the Clermont performance would have set a new benchmark.

I'd be shocked if the winner of Clermont / Munster doesn't win the final. Though, like last year, people will no doubt try to play up the chances of this year's Ulster equivalent.

Did you reassess Ulster's ability last year following their victory against Clermont? Ulster were blown away on the day but they were a fine team

trouttrout

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Munster wouldn't lose a final in Dublin.

Also, were Munster to make the final you would be forced to totally reassess their ability as the Clermont performance would have set a new benchmark.

I'd be shocked if the winner of Clermont / Munster doesn't win the final. Though, like last year, people will no doubt try to play up the chances of this year's Ulster equivalent.

You realise Toulon are in the other semi? And even Saracens are stronger than Ulster were last season

thomond2006

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Munster wouldn't lose a final in Dublin.

Also, were Munster to make the final you would be forced to totally reassess their ability as the Clermont performance would have set a new benchmark.

I'd be shocked if the winner of Clermont / Munster doesn't win the final. Though, like last year, people will no doubt try to play up the chances of this year's Ulster equivalent.

If Toulon had their heads in their game, they would comfortably beat Munster as it stands.

Micky Dolenz

Munster by more than 10

Munsters game plans this season have been a mess. Not only has it made players look bad, it has made the team look less the average. Forwards on the wings? What next, stick ROG into the front row.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wrong

By "agreeing" with me, you were insinuating that I was agreeing with you in the first place. I wasn't. Quite the opposite. Gluck.

I was agreeing with injury bit that affected Williams. Apologies for the serious offense caused.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

I was agreeing with injury bit that affected Williams. Apologies for the serious offense caused.

You said Munsters gameplan was the reason for his bad form. Which (surprise surprise) you made no attempt to back up

Riskymove

Munster by more than 10

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Though, like last year, people will no doubt try to play up the chances of this year's Ulster equivalent.

tbh Munster are this year's Ulster equivalent

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

trouttrout wrote: »

You said Munsters gameplan was the reason for his bad form. Which (surprise surprise) you made no attempt to back up

Gameplan along with injuries. Similar to Mafi, Warwick and a whole lot of other players. These players were unrecognisable when we changed gameplan.

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

tbh Munster are this year's Edinburgh equivalent

In terms of being the only QF that didn't have the "expected" result.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

Gameplan along with injuries. Similar to Mafi, Warwick and a whole lot of other players. These players were unrecognisable when we changed gameplan.

What part of the Munster gameplan at that time didn't suit Williams?

Buer

trouttrout wrote: »

What part of the Munster gameplan at that time didn't suit Williams?

Playing him as a flanker, for a start!

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

trouttrout wrote: »

What part of the Munster gameplan at that time didn't suit Williams?

I hope the poster Buer doesn't mind me copying this over from the thread as I thought he put it very well:

Different game plan, didn't play to his strengths and he was injured. Munster played him a fair bit at flanker. He's not a workhorse designed to go through phase play and hit rucks. You want him taking first phase ball in one on one situations as he has done for Ulster and ploughing over the gain line. It never made any sense.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

I hope the poster Buer doesn't mind me copying this over from the thread as I thought he put it very well:

Different game plan, didn't play to his strengths and he was injured. Munster played him a fair bit at flanker. He's not a workhorse designed to go through phase play and hit rucks. You want him taking first phase ball in one on one situations as he has done for Ulster and ploughing over the gain line. It never made any sense.

So no opinion of your own? anyway I'm done engaging with you, such a bluffer

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

I hope the poster Buer doesn't mind me copying this over from the thread as I thought he put it very well:

You'll be hearing from my solicitor.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

Buer wrote: »

You'll be hearing from my solicitor.

ssaye

No DOC or Howlett confirmed on MF

Mahatma Geansai

Williams was poor for Munster, because he was fat and lazy. That said, he still had a good try scoring record in the Amlin where he is able to smash through opposition players at a canter.

Grimebox

Clermont by 1-10

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Williams was poor for Munster, because he was fat and lazy. That said, he still had a good try scoring record in the Amlin where he is able to smash through opposition players at a canter.

Just... lol. Thank god he turned that fat and laziness around when he moved to Ulster

ssaye

Sinéad Kissane ‏@sineadkissane 1h Doug Howlett & Donncha O'Callaghan ruled out of Munster's H Cup semi. Munster waiting on fitness of Keith Earls & Peter O'Mahony

thomond2006

ssaye wrote: »

No DOC or Howlett confirmed on MF

That's a blow, although probably expected. Doubts still over Earls and POM.

Assuming everyone else is fit:
Killer, Sherry, Botha, D Ryan, POC, POM, TOD, Coughlan;
Murray, ROG, Earls, Downey, Laulala, Zebo, Jones

Varley, du Preez, J Ryan, Holland, Butler, Sheridan, Keatley, Hurley