Selling car buyer wants to pay by bankers draft

skinny90

As per the title i was just wondering what people's thoughts are.is it common for this type of payment to be used when getting a car.how safe is it.he wants to meet me some evening and I was just wondering is there any way I could check to see if the draft is genuine

CianRyan

skinny90 wrote: »

As per the title i was just wondering what people's thoughts are.is it common for this type of payment to be used when getting a car.how safe is it.he wants to meet me some evening and I was just wondering is there any way I could check to see if the draft is genuine

Go into the bank with him.

skinny90

He wants to meet at the evening.

bmwguy

CianRyan wrote: »

Go into the bank with him.

If he insists on the evening banks are closed. If he refuses to allow your request to have it verified by a bank there is something not right

biko

Hold car until draft is lodged?

Engine No.9

Unfortunately there is no way of telling if it is genuine until it goes into the bank. But of my little experience with them, afaik they carry a hologram on them. If it has I'd reckon its genuine alright.

One way of dealing with this could be to insist on sending off the reg cert yourself, that way you can lodge it and if it turns out to be fake, you can reclaim the car as the title is still in your name. Be upfront and tell him that this is what you're doing as you've got no experience with them and you're a bit uneasy with it. That way he won't be surprised when you come looking for the car back.

As far as how safe they are, once they're genuine they're the safest form of payment as the value is guaranteed by the bank.

Mycroft H

+1, as long as it's valid, they are as good, if not better than cash in my opinion.

However, until it's verified as genuine by a bank, I wouldn't accept it.

mlumley

I always thought bank drafts fad the name of the person the money was to be paid to, writen on it. IIRC, they are also typed, so, how did he know who to have it made out to? I would ask for cash.

Wils110

Don't go near the draft, if he can go the bank and take time and pay a charge for a draft there's no difference in him getting cash for you....if he feels unsafe with cash do a transfer to your account

Anan1

I've paid for (and been paid for) many cars by draft without incident. If you're concerned then have him email you a scan of the draft in advance so you can call the issuing bank to verify that it's genuine.

biko

Or meet in the evening for the test drive. If he wants the car still then meet at a bank the next day for the transfer of funds.
And as said, you will still have the VLC with his details on it.

But if you're more comfortable with waiting that's good too.

skinny90

biko wrote: »

Or meet in the evening for the test drive. If he wants the car still then meet at a bank the next day for the transfer of funds.
And as said, you will still have the VLC with his details on it.

But if you're more comfortable with waiting that's good too.

He's coming from Dublin which is 2 hours away from where the car is.he hasn't seen the car or anything just the advert.he didnt really negociate which i have stated on the advert that im open to offers within reason.it's quite a lot of money to be handing over without seeing it or driving if it was me if rather be 100% sure that I'd be handing over that's the only reason as too why I have my doubts.

bazz26

Get a photo copy of the draft from him in advance and then ring the issuing bank to verify it. The fact that he didn't try to haggle would have me on full alert.

Also make sure you are not meeting this person on your own.

Tordelback

On the one hand, a bank will issue a banker's draft immediately (assuming your account will cover it) while these days they may make you wait for a large cash amount, even in your own branch. So it's more reliable than a cheque and easier (and safer) than drawing cash.

On the other, it's for a fixed amount to a specific person, and costs 3.50 (last time I looked). Once it's drawn the money is gone from the person's account. So why in hell would someone have already drawn one up in your favour for a car he hasn't even seen? Very, very dodgy behaviour, beware.

Ardennes1944

I paid for my car 2 weeks ago by bank draft at the sellers request. Better than cash

robot7080

if he can supposedly go into the bank during the day to get the draft then surely he can just meet you there?

djimi

skinny90 wrote: »

He's coming from Dublin which is 2 hours away from where the car is.he hasn't seen the car or anything just the advert.he didnt really negociate which i have stated on the advert that im open to offers within reason.it's quite a lot of money to be handing over without seeing it or driving if it was me if rather be 100% sure that I'd be handing over that's the only reason as too why I have my doubts.

Chances are he wont try and negotiate until he sees the car in person (not mich point trying to come to a price for something you have never laid eyes on). That in itself does not sound dodgy to me. If he was agreeing to a price and was looking to pay for the car via bank transfer without ever wanting to see the car then that would be a whole different story.

djimi

robot7080 wrote: »

if he can supposedly go into the bank during the day to get the draft then surely he can just meet you there?

Buyer in Dublin, seller in Galway (assuming the OPs location is correct).

A lot of people might not be able to go view/buy a car during the day. There is a bank down the road from where I work where I could get a bank draft on my lunch, but unless the seller was local Id have a hard time meeting them during opening hours to go to a bank with them.

zizou_

Anan1 wrote: »

If you're concerned then have him email you a scan of the draft in advance so you can call the issuing bank to verify that it's genuine.

When i was selling a car a couple of years ago I tried this and the issuing bank (AIB) refused to comment on the draft claiming confidentiality. The buyer seemed genuine so i left it at that.

Funfair

Any chance of a pic of the car ? I'd interested to see what a guy would drive from Dublin to Galway for

KT10

I'd be a bit wary, wasn't there a scam where people would sell things, be paid by bank draft, draft turns out to be modified, therefore useless but it would take a week to clear, bank would realise the error, retract funds, tough luck.

Granted it was more to do with buying stuff online etc but still...

gerrycollins

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless you can reach a branch where the draft is drawn on. It can still be cancelled by the buyer even though they will face a few weeks to get their money back. If he has the cash to pay a draft then he should be able to offer you the cash.

alias no.9

Has the buyer viewed the car already and agreed a price? If so I wouldn't worry too much about, ask the seller to contact you immediately with the serial number of the draft as soon as they get it from the bank.
If the buyer is coming sight unseen with a 'draft' made out in your name, I'd be very wary.

Anan1

zizou_ wrote: »

When i was selling a car a couple of years ago I tried this and the issuing bank (AIB) refused to comment on the draft claiming confidentiality. The buyer seemed genuine so i left it at that.

I suppose the best solution to that is to have the buyer notify their bank to expect the call.

alias no.9

gerrycollins wrote: »

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless you can reach a branch where the draft is drawn on. It can still be cancelled by the buyer even though they will face a few weeks to get their money back. If he has the cash to pay a draft then he should be able to offer you the cash.

I don't think a bank draft can be cancelled and the money refunded to the person who purchased it, in circumstances where it is reported lost or stolen, it can be cancelled and reissued in the name of the original payee. Unless a potential scam artist access to a bank account in the name of someone who shares your name, it's difficult to see how they would get their cash back.

Mycroft H

alias no.9 wrote: »

I don't think a bank draft can be cancelled and the money refunded to the person who purchased it, in circumstances where it is reported lost or stolen, it can be cancelled and reissued in the name of the original payee. Unless a potential scam artist access to a bank account in the name of someone who shares your name, it's difficult to see how they would get their cash back.

They can be cancelled if you hand back the original to the issuing bank if you have paid it out of your account.

alias no.9

BX 19 wrote: »

They can be cancelled if you hand back the original to the issuing bank if you have paid it out of your account.

True but my reply was in the context of the post I replied to that suggested that the buyer could cancel the draft after the exchange had taken place.

kippy

djimi wrote: »

Chances are he wont try and negotiate until he sees the car in person (not mich point trying to come to a price for something you have never laid eyes on). That in itself does not sound dodgy to me. If he was agreeing to a price and was looking to pay for the car via bank transfer without ever wanting to see the car then that would be a whole different story.

When you look at a topic like this everything needs to be taken in context.
If he was planning on negotiating and paying with a bank draft he could not possibly do so without going back to the bank and getting the draft changed.
Last time I used a draft the amount it was for was written on it and not changeable.

This whole thing looks well dodgy OP. Esp since he hasnt even seen the car.........

scamalert

totally suspicious,as bank draft has to have name issued who will it be paid to in print.As its totally safe way to use when buying expensive stuff above couple grand,especially if its in another country ex:England,instead of carrying cash,as you can always cancel the draft or report it stolen in minutes,where cash can be taken straight away.By saying that let the buyer know that you will only meet him during daytime,and sell the car once bank verifies it.Otherwise you might be left with a piece of paper,and yet if you decide to sell without certificate,the car might be cloned in minutes and on the way out of the country,or for parts :cool:

Atlantic Dawn

Only a food would go buy a bank draft without first seeing a car or else he is a scammer.

Perhaps if you are selling a car which there is about 3 in the country and your selling at a great price someone might get a draft but even then it's idiotic for buyer to get the draft blindly. Even if the distance is Donegal to Cork the buyer could go down on the bus to view, if your talking thousands for a car spening €100 in expenses doing 2 trips, one to view, one to buy would be the norm.

Tigger

mabey the draft is for 500 less and he'll make up the final price in cash
or its fake
i've bought cars by draft before

biko

Beware mate, just in case...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fraudster-swindles-car-owners-with-fake-bank-drafts-26853239.html

A FRAUDSTER is operating a lucrative scam by buying cars with counterfeit bank drafts and then selling them for cash.
He has already swindled car owners out of €130,000 since he started the scam six months ago.

Negotiations are usually protracted to allow the fraudster time to line up a subsequent buyer for the car.

He usually insists on completing the deal on a Thursday evening or a Friday and his courier hands over a counterfeit bank draft, which cannot be checked by the bank until Monday morning.

kippy

Tigger wrote: »

mabey the draft is for 500 less and he'll make up the final price in cash
or its fake
i've bought cars by draft before

No one is saying it is not possible to buy cars by bank draft.

The point is, there are a number of well known scams that sound very similiar to the situation the OP is finding himself in and one has to ask why would a buyer commit to buying a car without seeing it, offering the asking price, not knowing the sellers name etc etc etc?

There are numerous things here that ring alarm bells for me.
Other posters have given the OP some ideas on how to make sure this is legit.

flutered

bmwguy wrote: »

If he insists on the evening banks are closed. If he refuses to allow your request to have it verified by a bank there is something not right

if you are near an airport their banks are open odd hours, at least they were back in the the day, very handy for tangle in greyhounds.

bidiots

pajopearl wrote: »

One way of dealing with this could be to insist on sending off the reg cert yourself, that way you can lodge it and if it turns out to be fake, you can reclaim the car as the title is still in your name.

This should happen regardless. Never give the cert to a buyer, it will be in your name until the form is sent to Shannon so you are liable for 'any' further fines(Toll/Speeding etc).

I've bought cars by draft before. As has been said, get a copy of the draft emailed to you then verify with the bank in question. There is no need for this to turn into an ordeal of any kind.

s14driftking

i bought a car with with a draft before got the draft made out for a thousand less than the car was advertised for then had a grand to bargain with

kippy

bidiots wrote: »

This should happen regardless. Never give the cert to a buyer, it will be in your name until the form is sent to Shannon so you are liable for 'any' further fines(Toll/Speeding etc).

I've bought cars by draft before. As has been said, get a copy of the draft emailed to you then verify with the bank in question. There is no need for this to turn into an ordeal of any kind.

You dont think that the buyer not selling the car or negotiating with the seller is in any way dodgy, all facts that we are aware of being considered?

bidiots

kippy wrote: »

You dont think that the buyer not selling the car or negotiating with the seller is in any way dodgy, all facts that we are aware of being considered?

Could be, but why the hysteria. Whether there has been any negotiating or 'normal' buyer practice, doesn't really matter.

If the buyer is using a bank draft, get it verified by the bank regardless. If it's cash, get it checked by a bank regardless. Follow the normal rules when it comes to selling and all should be ok.

If it turns out that the Bank deem the draft to be dodgy, then you will know its a scam. Otherwise it's just hearsay and bar stool analogies. Of course there is a chance this is dodgy, there is also the chance that this is legit.

kippy

bidiots wrote: »

Could be, but why the hysteria. Whether there has been any negotiating or 'normal' buyer practice, doesn't really matter.

If the buyer is using a bank draft, get it verified by the bank regardless. If it's cash, get it checked by a bank regardless. Follow the normal rules when it comes to selling and all should be ok.

If it turns out that the Bank deem the draft to be dodgy, then you will know its a scam. Otherwise it's just hearsay and bar stool analogies. Of course there is a chance this is dodgy, there is also the chance that this is legit.

I dont think any one is getting "hysterical".
Just giving the OP advice based on the facts presented.

The facts to me say walk away, even without any further investigation but yes, as you say it's easy enough to get the draft verified.

Condatis

skinny90 wrote: »

He's coming from Dublin which is 2 hours away from where the car is.he hasn't seen the car or anything just the advert.he didnt really negociate which i have stated on the advert that im open to offers within reason.it's quite a lot of money to be handing over without seeing it or driving if it was me if rather be 100% sure that I'd be handing over that's the only reason as too why I have my doubts.

You are right to have doubts. I have had some experiences of this type situation. I see Red Flags here. My advice is don't do it.

embireland

I reckon what he is going to do is give the buyer a fake draft made out for over the asking amount and ask the seller for cash on the remainder of the price, and say he will come back next week for the car, when the bank draft clears, he never comes back and the seller has given him the extra amount for the draft. this is common trick with cheques, he will give a sob story.
Please keep us updated on the outcome...I am dying to know what happens next...

skinny90

Well bit of an update he has booked mechanic to have a look at it and report back to him about any major issues... I'm feeling abit more assured as he seems to be fairly genuine but time will tell.il be leaving it in to the chosen machanic tomorrow so well see..

Anan1

kippy wrote: »

I dont think any one is getting "hysterical".
Just giving the OP advice based on the facts presented.

The facts to me say walk away, even without any further investigation but yes, as you say it's easy enough to get the draft verified.

Walking away without further investigation is hysterical. The OP needs to protect themselves, but they also need to sell the car.

Bigus

skinny90 wrote: »

Well bit of an update he has booked mechanic to have a look at it and report back to him about any major issues... I'm feeling abit more assured as he seems to be fairly genuine but time will tell.il be leaving it in to the chosen machanic tomorrow so well see..

Make sure the mechanic actually knows him and has met him,

scammers often use innocent third parties, to give an air of authencity ,

next thing another innocent third party transport company will arrive with the draft to collect the car and yet nobody ever meets mr scammer.

Call the local Garda and get them to talk to fraud squad.

Icepick

pajopearl wrote: »

One way of dealing with this could be to insist on sending off the reg cert yourself

You are supposed to do that as a seller anyway.

kippy

Anan1 wrote: »

Walking away without further investigation is hysterical. The OP needs to protect themselves, but they also need to sell the car.

Does this not look in any way dodgy to you?

Anan1

kippy wrote: »

Does this not look in any way dodgy to you?

It's potentially dodgy, but also potentially fine. The sensible way to proceed is not to run away but rather to come up with solutions that address the concerns of both parties. If the buyer is genuine then they'll be fine with this, if not then the OP will know that they haven't missed out on a genuine buyer.

Bigus

My son has first hand experience of the , "using innocent third parties"for the scammer to stay out of the picture although he talked to him (scammer)on the phone numerous times on behalf of the vendor, as did the vendor ,

Scammer was IRISH well spoken dublin accent native. Four other parties involved in transaction ,nobody ever physically met him.

In this case it involved credit union , vendors bank told him funds where cleared yet draft bounced ,subsequently, car delivered to car recovery guys who never met scammer but were paid to drop car and keys to location presumably to be collected by scammer later.

Quite clever.

Henry Ford III

Bigus wrote: »

My son has first hand experience of the , "using innocent third parties"for the scammer to stay out of the picture although he talked to him (scammer)on the phone numerous times on behalf of the vendor, as did the vendor ,

Scammer was IRISH well spoken dublin accent native. Four other parties involved in transaction ,nobody ever physically met him.

In this case it involved credit union , vendors bank told him funds where cleared yet draft bounced ,subsequently, car delivered to car recovery guys who never met scammer but were paid to drop car and keys to location presumably to be collected by scammer later.

Quite clever.

Who signed the vlc and what address was given?

p.s. I don't understand how the issuing bank could confirm a draft is fine and then reject it. Please explain.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

It's potentially dodgy, but also potentially fine. The sensible way to proceed is not to run away but rather to come up with solutions that address the concerns of both parties. If the buyer is genuine then they'll be fine with this, if not then the OP will know that they haven't missed out on a genuine buyer.

It depends on the car to be fair. If the OP is selling something that is in relatively decent demand then Id be inclined to say walk away if something doesnt feel right; theres not a lot of sense in looking for solutions to a situation you are not 100% happy about.

If the car is going to be harder to shift then the OP may have to take a leap of faith, in which case I agree with you. But for the most part I would say most people do not want/need the hassle when there will probably be easier and more straightforward sales out there.

A2LUE42

KT10 wrote: »

I'd be a bit wary, wasn't there a scam where people would sell things, be paid by bank draft, draft turns out to be modified, therefore useless but it would take a week to clear, bank would realise the error, retract funds, tough luck.

Granted it was more to do with buying stuff online etc but still...

Or where the draft was for too much, so they wanted some cash back from the person to balance out the transaction.