Season 3: Episode 3 * Have READ the books/SPOILERS

username123

eyeball kid wrote: »

If I hadn't read the books, I'm sure that point about 'Winterfell in ruins when they arrived' would have floated over me.

I have read the books and it floated over me.

But people dont have to have read the books to gain extra knowledge, there are wikis and other sites full of info. Its actually possible to know loads about the GoT universe without ever opening a book!

Gbear

I have to say I really liked the end credits.

It was supposed to be jarring and uncomfortable and it absolutely was.

Kzamll1992

catchy song too....

I Am Fuzzy Dunlop

Gbear wrote: »

It's somewhat depressing how everyone else, including only-show-watchers, picked up that Dany is just going to murder all the slavers in Astapor.

It was much less obvious in the books because the Slaver wanted (and suggested) the dragon and she seemed to agonise over the decision. In the show she was just like "here, have yourself a dragon, any dragon! Like i care..." She might as well have been standing on Moore St shouting "get yizzar dragons, last of the dragons there now!"

After how she went up against the warlocks to save them i think it's pretty obvious that there is no sincerity involved in that kind of offer. It's one thing that was poorly handled.

Mr Freeze

eyeball kid wrote: »

Pixelburp is really on the ball. He/she must be repeating a lot of episodes to pick up on the little details like they have

Could be a book reader, wouldn't be the first one to post there.

jones

I thought the end credit were totally jarring and not in a good way ha

username123

Gbear wrote: »

I have to say I really liked the end credits.

It was supposed to be jarring and uncomfortable and it absolutely was.

I agree. I started another thread called The Bear and the Maiden Fair where I said that I liked the way you had the shock of Jaimes hand followed by the shock of the music - and I liked it!

A lot of people seem to have disliked it though.

Liam O

I love that nobody in the other thread is copping that it's Ramsay who "saved" Theon. "The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he doesn't exist". Still don't like how they've gone about Theon's storyline.

I never pictured it being dark for some reason when they cut Jaime's hand off, though it probably did say it in the book and I missed it

Kzamll1992

i like what they are doing with it. they are doing the whole reveal thing (from Clash of Kings) except combining it with the whole descent into Reek Reek rhymes with *insert word*.

I didnt like how Ramsay was revealed in the book.

Some changes are good for the sake of on screen vs book.

Like Barristan/Arstan... that would never have worked!!

Scuba Ste

Liam O wrote: »

I love that nobody in the other thread is copping that it's Ramsay who "saved" Theon. "The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he doesn't exist". Still don't like how they've gone about Theon's storyline.

I never pictured it being dark for some reason when they cut Jaime's hand off, though it probably did say it in the book and I missed it

We haven't been introduced to Ramsay yet, except in some passing comments. I don't event think it's been said where Theon is yet. There's no reason viewers would know it's Ramsay who has him.

I preferred the book story. I'd never have thought Ramsay had the wit or cunning to pretend to befriend Theon like in the show. In the book he's simply an evil fcuker.

There's an awful lot of Theon so far. I thought they'd only flesh out his scenes a little to keep him in the show. He doesn't do much until ADWD.

Pepe LeFrits

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with you all about the people trying to come across well in the other thread when they have clearly read the books. Some have dropped names that haven't even been mentioned on the show yet. That is so so sad... Why would you even bother but well done to the mods for addressing it again.

I've read the books but I prefer the non-books thread. I'm very careful about what I post in there though, and I've reported posts for containing book references (eg someone referring to Vargo Hoat).

I haven't read the books in ages and to be honest, I find the constant talk of 'why did they do it that way' and 'when is x and y going to happen' very tedious. The non-book readers talk about the actual show more, how it is and not how they wish it to be, and they get swept up in the narrative more. In the absence of a machine to remove my memory, partaking in their first timer-ness is a good second.

Liam O

Scuba Ste wrote: »

We haven't been introduced to Ramsay yet, except in some passing comments. I don't event think it's been said where Theon is yet. There's no reason viewers would know it's Ramsay who has him.

I preferred the book story. I'd never have thought Ramsay had the wit or cunning to pretend to befriend Theon like in the show. In the book he's simply an evil fcuker.

There's an awful lot of Theon so far. I thought they'd only flesh out his scenes a little to keep him in the show. He doesn't do much until ADWD.

Ramsay did befriend Theon though as Reek didn't he? Been a while so memory not the best. Thought it was very well done in the book. They did call him a 'little bastard' though which is going to narrow it down, went over most heads. Would be good if the break into Reek happened now I think rather than make the reveal. Shouldn't see either of them until after the Red Wedding at least.

ArmaniJeanss

Liam O wrote: »

Ramsay did befriend Theon though as Reek didn't he? Been a while so memory not the best. Thought it was very well done in the book. They did call him a 'little bastard' though which is going to narrow it down, went over most heads. Would be good if the break into Reek happened now I think rather than make the reveal. Shouldn't see either of them until after the Red Wedding at least.

In TV land I don't think its feasible to reduce someone from 'main cast' to a couple of episodes and cheerio for 24 months - so I expect Theon's story to be expanded. Wouldn't surprise me if he was at the Red Wedding in some way, possibly as a 'gift' to the Starks.

Sleepy

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Could be a book reader, wouldn't be the first one to post there.

TBH, even though I only know him/her as pixelburp from boards, I'd doubt it.

Son0vagun

Talking about expending characters arcs, the more I think of it the more I reckon they are going to use Gendry in the Edric Storm role.

Mr.Prodston

Son0vagun wrote: »

Talking about expending characters arcs, the more I think of it the more I reckon they are going to use Gendry in the Edric Storm role.

I'm playing devils advocate here with my memory of things sketchy at best but I'll throw this out there anyway.

Who's to say that Melissandre didn't try and find Gendry. We don't know anything of Stannis/Mel from time they leave Dragonstone to when they turn up at the wall. Also we don't see Gendry until Brienne runs into him at the end of AFFC? In theory Mel could have tried to find him and we'd have no idea.

Obviously this is a leap in faith and I hope it's not the case as I always hoped that Gendry would have a part to play in the latter stages of the books but I guess this could tie in.

stevenmu

Liam O wrote: »

Ramsay did befriend Theon though as Reek didn't he?

Just in case you don't want to be reminded I'll stick this in a spoiler:

He didn't befriend him, he tortured Theon until he was completely and utterly broken, and then convinced Theon that to like him and serve him completely was the only way to end the suffering. It was kind of a stockhom syndrome thing. Theon was so terrified of the pain and torture at a subconcious level that he took on the persona of Reek, who was a loyal and loving slave to Ramsey, to repress and block out any thought of it.

In the books, after Winterfell, we only saw Theon again when he had already become Reek, and then afterwards some of the torture was hinted at. I think in the show they are going to show some of the torture and transformation to try and make Theon more sympathetic to the viewers. And I think the bits they have shown with someone helping him escape and then him being recaptured were the start of Ramsey's mind games to build him up with false hop before knocking him down again.

KJY

stevenmu wrote: »

Just in case you don't want to be reminded I'll stick this in a spoiler:

He didn't befriend him, he tortured Theon until he was completely and utterly broken, and then convinced Theon that to like him and serve him completely was the only way to end the suffering. It was kind of a stockhom syndrome thing. Theon was so terrified of the pain and torture at a subconcious level that he took on the persona of Reek, who was a loyal and loving slave to Ramsey, to repress and block out any thought of it.

In the books, after Winterfell, we only saw Theon again when he had already become Reek, and then afterwards some of the torture was hinted at. I think in the show they are going to show some of the torture and transformation to try and make Theon more sympathetic to the viewers. And I think the bits they have shown with someone helping him escape and then him being recaptured were the start of Ramsey's mind games to build him up with false hop before knocking him down again.

I think he's referring to Ramsey pretending to be Reek in CoK

Scuba Ste

stevenmu wrote: »

Just in case you don't want to be reminded I'll stick this in a spoiler:

He didn't befriend him, he tortured Theon until he was completely and utterly broken, and then convinced Theon that to like him and serve him completely was the only way to end the suffering. It was kind of a stockhom syndrome thing. Theon was so terrified of the pain and torture at a subconcious level that he took on the persona of Reek, who was a loyal and loving slave to Ramsey, to repress and block out any thought of it.

In the books, after Winterfell, we only saw Theon again when he had already become Reek, and then afterwards some of the torture was hinted at. I think in the show they are going to show some of the torture and transformation to try and make Theon more sympathetic to the viewers. And I think the bits they have shown with someone helping him escape and then him being recaptured were the start of Ramsey's mind games to build him up with false hop before knocking him down again.

Ramsay was Reek first when he was in the dungeons in Winterfell and he joined Theon's men. I wouldn't say he befriended Theon, just joined his men to save his own skin. He was still an evil bastid. It was his idea to burn the orphan boys.

Liam O

Yeah it made it all the better that he turned Theon into Reek after he was introduced as Reek. I think that suddenly seeing Theon broken as a man helped solidify Ramsey's character more than anything else. I'm worried in the show that if they give away the Bolton's being dicks then the red wedding will have less of an impact.

Gbear

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah it made it all the better that he turned Theon into Reek after he was introduced as Reek. I think that suddenly seeing Theon broken as a man helped solidify Ramsey's character more than anything else. I'm worried in the show that if they give away the Bolton's being dicks then the red wedding will have less of an impact.

They could time it so that the full nature of dickishness isn't revealed straight away - so Ramsay strings Theon along until RW.

Or else there could be some pretence that Ramsay isn't working under direction from his father (and I don't think he was at the very start - making lady Hornwood(?) starve to death probably wasn't his father's plan but I could be wrong.)
So we may be lead to believe that Ramsay is seen as a bit of a scamp by daddy who's blind to what a colossal bag of ***** he really is.

Pepe LeFrits

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I've read the books but I prefer the non-books thread. I'm very careful about what I post in there though, and I've reported posts for containing book references (eg someone referring to Vargo Hoat).

.

That's fine in my opinion when it is helping them understand something. For example a lot of people didn't know or forgot who Selmy was. The people I was talking about are the people pretending to not have read the books at all to come across as better & smarter then the others in the thread. I've noticed 2-3 obvious ones since the start of season 3 and we know about the others in past seasons.

I re-watched the episode again last night and one thing I've been noticing is how bad Littlefinger's ascent is getting. It's just a cluster ****!

ArmaniJeanss

Deleted User wrote: »

one thing I've been noticing is how bad Littlefinger's ascent is getting.

He'll make it all the way to the top

LOL meant to type accent not ascent but both are valid

stevenmu

KJY wrote: »

I think he's referring to Ramsey pretending to be Reek in CoK

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Ramsay was Reek first when he was in the dungeons in Winterfell and he joined Theon's men. I wouldn't say he befriended Theon, just joined his men to save his own skin. He was still an evil bastid. It was his idea to burn the orphan boys.

Oh, yeah, I see now. I keep forgetting that Ramsey was Reek first.

username123

Deleted User wrote: »

That's fine in my opinion when it is helping them understand something. For example a lot of people didn't know or forgot who Selmy was.

I did post in those threads before but not disingenuously, but then after I saw a mod warning I didnt know if it was directed at me or not (I was open about being a book reader) so I just stopped posting there in case I accidently said something I shouldnt.

Deleted User wrote: »

The people I was talking about are the people pretending to not have read the books at all to come across as better & smarter then the others in the thread. I've noticed 2-3 obvious ones since the start of season 3 and we know about the others in past seasons.

I dont really understand why someone would do this, is it a self esteem problem?

I think its clear over on that thread that some people are book readers though. Which is fine if they are just clarifying something but bad if they are coming up with theories that are always right.

I also saw some people saw over there that Jaimes unhanding had been spoilt for them by other posters which is terrible, another tv show was ruined for me by a poster on boards not spoilering something too, its not good.

Mr.Prodston

Something that has had me confused/intrigued is why the White Walkers left the horses in that decorative kind of spiral? Nothing like this is mentioned in the books that I can remember? So what is the significance of this. I can't come up with any theories.

thehairyone

stevenmu wrote: »

Oh, yeah, I see now. I keep forgetting that Ramsey was Reek first.

From what i remember, Ramsey and the original Reek were being hunted down by the Starks/Northmen. Ramsey changed clothes with the original reek just before they were captured, taking on his persona. The original Reek (now in Ramseys clothes) died during the capture, leading the Starks/Northemn to believe that Ramsey was dead while Ramsey (now in Reeks clothing) was thrown in the dungeon. Can someone correct me on that?

thehairyone

Sleepy wrote: »

Possibly, but I'd like that spelled out...

Looking at the non-readers thread, the more astute viewers are really picking up on the subtleties (I'd trust pixelburp to be posting here if he'd read the books but so far he's spotting most things!). Nice to see that the foreshadowing is actually transferring from book to screen.

I dont know, his/her prediction in the thread was a bit too on the ball for a non book reader. The mention of the Boltons crest seems very suspect to me.

Liam O

thehairyone wrote: »

I dont know, his/her prediction in the thread was a bit too on the ball for a non book reader. The mention of the Boltons crest seems very suspect to me.

he got it wrong though, the Bolton sigil is a flayed man, not a tortured man. Close though...

username123

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Something that has had me confused/intrigued is why the White Walkers left the horses in that decorative kind of spiral? Nothing like this is mentioned in the books that I can remember? So what is the significance of this. I can't come up with any theories.

Good question. Is it just to show the power of the white walkers? That even in that environment they are able to chop up horses and arrange them in an artistic manner? Or is there some kind of ritualistic stuff about white walkers to be revealed? The spiral was visible from above, any significance?

I'm a little confused in general regarding white walkers and others. Are they sentient?

eyeball kid

thehairyone wrote: »

I dont know, his/her prediction in the thread was a bit too on the ball for a non book reader. The mention of the Boltons crest seems very suspect to me.

But there has been a few close ups of the Boltons sigil in the last couple of episodes where they were obviously pointing it out and it looked remarkably similar to the torture device that was being used on Theon.

Everything he/she has said in the thread can have been picked up just from watching the show. I think they are just watching very attentively.

Mr.Prodston

username123 wrote: »

Good question. Is it just to show the power of the white walkers? That even in that environment they are able to chop up horses and arrange them in an artistic manner? Or is there some kind of ritualistic stuff about white walkers to be revealed? The spiral was visible from above, any significance?

I'm a little confused in general regarding white walkers and others. Are they sentient?

I have just assumed that "The Winds of Winter" was going to reveal a lot/some smidgen of information and actual background to the Others/White Walkers.

I wonder if they just threw it in for the readers to go "WTF is going on there?" or if GRRM has told them something. Either way I would be delighted if anyone had any idea. I had started thinking that they were just the other end of the spectrum to dragons and R'holler and should be viewed as thus. The dragons have a lot of love despite killing quite a few people themselves.

Back to the Others I think that they must be sentient to a certain extent at least. This is Westeros.org's factfile anyway: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others

username123

I think I was confusing wights with white walkers!

So, there is some sentience, particularly if thy have language. I think I'm a bit clearer now, clear as mud that is

Mickeroo

It could be a rune which wards off dragons, since its so big and more visible from the sky.

Barna77

This season is picking up quite fast. I watched the episode with a non-reader friend. She was like "whaaaaa" at the end, and more surprises to come

ibarelycare

I'm obviously the only one here but I didn't enjoy a lot of that episode

I was excited when the scene with the Small Council started, as I love any scene with Charles Dance. I know the chair-moving thing was supposed to instill a bit of humour, but I just thought it was out of place. Similarly, the storyline with Pod/Tyrion/Bronn. It was just needless filler.

Littlefinger's accent is getting on my nerves, finding his scenes a bit difficult to watch!

I was really disappointed with Edmure and The Blackfish too. Edmure doesn't seem quite so pathetic in the books as he does in the show, and the Blackfish doesn't seem as much of an arsehole in the books. Thought the acting in the Riverrun scenes was a bit weak.

Really liked the scene with Jaime and ____(Can't think of his name...the Vargo Hoat replacement), and the part before that too with Brienne.

I'm also liking the Ramsay Snow/Theon storyline. My bf has just started book 4 and when Ramsay set Theon free I was like "Oh no, this is the bit where he pretends to let him go"...oops Forgot that wasn't in book 3! So I've effectively ruined that part of the next episode for him!

Hoping so much that the Sam the Slayer scene happens in the next episode.

Mickeroo

Our introduction to the Blackfish was my favourite scene so far this season.

Cookiemunster

ibarelycare wrote: »

I was excited when the scene with the Small Council started, as I love any scene with Charles Dance. I know the chair-moving thing was supposed to instill a bit of humour, but I just thought it was out of place. It was just needless filler.

Watch the inside the episode piece on the HBO website. It wasn't put in as humourous filler.

ibarelycare wrote: »

I was really disappointed with Edmure and The Blackfish too. Edmure doesn't seem quite so pathetic in the books as he does in the show, and the Blackfish doesn't seem as much of an arsehole in the books. Thought the acting in the Riverrun scenes was a bit weak.

Totally disagree. Having recently reread the book, Edmure was played perfectly and I though Blackfish was brilliant. Don't know how you thought he came across as an arsehole.

ibarelycare wrote: »

Hoping so much that the Sam the Slayer scene happens in the next episode.

Agree 100% on this one.

ibarelycare

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Totally disagree. Having recently reread the book, Edmure was played perfectly and I though Blackfish was brilliant. Don't know how you thought he came across as an arsehole.

I don't remember the relationship between Brynden and Edmure being that strained, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. My perception of him is that he was more of a gentle, quiet man. Perhaps that's more based on his relationship with Cat though.

Retrovertigo

ibarelycare wrote: »

Hoping so much that the Sam the Slayer scene happens in the next episode.

My guess is he saves Gillies son from being sacrificed. Seems like the logical way to get him close to one and we've already seen a white walker in the woods in the season trailer.

Gbear

Having Sam be extra useless so far this series would make any potential redemption more effective.

thehairyone

ibarelycare wrote: »

I don't remember the relationship between Brynden and Edmure being that strained, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. My perception of him is that he was more of a gentle, quiet man. Perhaps that's more based on his relationship with Cat though.

I agree, I dont remember Edmure being that much of a fool/bumbling idiot. In the books I know he disobeyed Robbs orders and defeats the lannisters at the crossing. But did he miss his fathers funeral boat with the flaming arrows in the book aswell?

Interrobang

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Something that has had me confused/intrigued is why the White Walkers left the horses in that decorative kind of spiral? Nothing like this is mentioned in the books that I can remember? So what is the significance of this. I can't come up with any theories.

Nope, it wasn't mentioned in the book. They've used this in the series before, though, in the opener to Season 1 Episode 1 (check the dismembered corpse arrangement at 2:50 in http://youtu.be/zhonEowCBUw). There's no direct mention of that first arrangement in GoT either, however - Will just tells Waymar Royce that a couple of the corpses were sitting up against a rock and most of them were on the ground - but considering how heavily GRRM was involved in the very first episode of the first season in particular, the arrangement of corpses must be included for a particular purpose.

Mr.Prodston

Pretty much everything I imagined Edmure in particular and the Blackfish was how they portrayed it in the episode. Edmure was incompetent and he continually whinged about marrying a Frey, although when he saw her he was like the cat that got the cream. I assume that will be the case in the show too.

I'm surprised so many feel differently, perhaps it was more subtle in the books but the show doesn't have the time or ability like the books to do it that way.

Mickeroo

thehairyone wrote: »

I agree, I dont remember Edmure being that much of a fool/bumbling idiot. In the books I know he disobeyed Robbs orders and defeats the lannisters at the crossing. But did he miss his fathers funeral boat with the flaming arrows in the book aswell?

He missed three times in the book.

beardedmaster

But in the book, IIRC, he was visibly quite upset while trying to shoot the boat, and missed more out of grief than anything else. Bryndyn took over because he was handling himself better.

It's funny how Edmure went from auburn longish curly hair in the books to straight short darker hair in the programme!
Can't say I mind that they've changed his character for the programme somewhat though, it does add a bit more variety to the cast we have. And the actor comes across very believable for me, he suits the character he is playing.

username123

beardedmaster wrote: »

But in the book, IIRC, he was visibly quite upset while trying to shoot the boat, and missed more out of grief than anything else. Bryndyn took over because he was handling himself better.

Yeah, I felt the book gave that scene a more sympathetic slant alright.

Andy-Pandy

My favourite thing about this TV series is that people are finally beginning to understand why I read so much fantasy and that there is more to the genre that they had previously thought.

Bookworm85

Just finished watching Loved the episode! I was in knots at Tyrion dragging the chair around the table at the small council! And I'm in awe of Pod.... who'd have thunk it eh?

Starting to see a bit of tension between Jorah and Selmy and I actually enjoyed Danny's scenes for a change. Loved seeing the Blackfish and Edure Tully too.

And we FINALLY got to hear 'The Bear and the Maiden Fair"