"I just wanna drink beer and train like an animal"

dublin runner

Great going. Is that the longest run in the schedule? The endurance side of things looks in great shape.

dukeraoul

dublin runner wrote: »

Great going. Is that the longest run in the schedule? The endurance side of things looks in great shape.

Thanks DR- no idea if that's the longest run I just do what the boss man tells me in fairness though my endurance stuff has always been the part of my running in most need of attention so good to get the long stuff in!

paddybarry

dukeraoul wrote: »

Yesterday - 6 miles easy 7:39 p/m

Today 22.25 miles in 2:40 (7:10 p/m)
Good run was thinking it could be bad as milage has been piling up, sleep has been poor etc. met Ecoli after the first 5 and did 11 @ 6:44 p/m w/ him. Left him @ 17 and took the last bit handy. Happy to get this run out of the way and will cap off an 85 mile week with a 6 mile recovery run tomorrow.

DQ,
Did you take anything on these long runs?
Thanks,
PB

dukeraoul

paddybarry wrote: »

DQ,
Did you take anything on these long runs?
Thanks,
PB

Just a couple mouthfuls of water. Tbh it's been a couple years since I needed anything on this type of run (unless the day is warm) that said I think it's a different story when running a full marathon at race pace and my strategy shifts accordingly! How's your training going?

paddybarry

dukeraoul wrote: »

Just a couple mouthfuls of water. Tbh it's been a couple years since I needed anything on this type of run (unless the day is warm) that said I think it's a different story when running a full marathon at race pace and my strategy shifts accordingly! How's your training going?

Training going good. Did 21miles @7.04m/m this morning on a hilly route.

If I am injury free in last week of September, I will sign up for DCM. This would be my first marathon. Have done a few half marathons with a PB of just over 1.22 in R&R half marathon this year.

The fueling side of a marathon is what concerns me most. Never taken anything for a half. I'm toying with the idea of using jelly beans.

Still have not decided on PMP. Have been doing sessions incorporating 6.30 m/m but that may be too optimistic. I will see how I go over next few weeks before committing.

dukeraoul

paddybarry wrote: »

Training going good. Did 21miles @7.04m/m this morning on a hilly route.

If I am injury free in last week of September, I will sign up for DCM. This would be my first marathon. Have done a few half marathons with a PB of just over 1.22 in R&R half marathon this year.

The fueling side of a marathon is what concerns me most. Never taken anything for a half. I'm toying with the idea of using jelly beans.

Still have not decided on PMP. Have been doing sessions incorporating 6.30 m/m but that may be too optimistic. I will see how I go over next few weeks before committing.

I'd be conservative on your first marathon. Not to scare you but I went into my first with a 1:22 HM but blew up shockingly badly to a 3:16... It really is a different beast. Make sure you run some of your LSRs much slower than 7 min pace- time on feet is super important for your first 26.2 - best of luck though looks like you're pretty strong!

dukeraoul

Well that didn't go as planned... Will maybe write a report later but suffice to say my race ended at around 8 miles (while still on 76 min pace lol) and really ended when I stepped out of an ambulance at the finish line having been taken from the water stop at 9.5....

I'm absolutely fine so thanks for people's concern but to say I had a rough day is an understatement...

belcarra

Good to hear you got out without anything too serious and unpleasant happening.

Can't help finding it ironic that the weather took you down though...!
Too soon??

dukeraoul

belcarra wrote: »

Good to hear you got out without anything too serious and unpleasant happening.

Can't help finding it ironic that the weather took you down though...!
Too soon??

Outstanding stuff belcarra. You'll see my ISIS style retaliation on those ****ers in the weather forum soon. Perma ban here I come!!!!

dukeraoul

Ok- so I don't really have a huge desire to do a big race report about Athlone- it sucked, that is all. I went out at 38:10 for the first half of the race (right on time target and just got completely overcome by the conditions/ my own mental stuff. I wound up in a very, very dark and scary place where my mind went completely out of control and I found myself at the 9.5 mile water station shaking and in a state of full blown panic. I honestly thought I was dying (which I clearly wasn't) but thoughts of never seeing my family again etc were dominating.

I've dealt with this kind of thing before but to have it happen in a sport I love in a middle of a race, when my training has been as hard as its ever been is intensely frustrating. TBH I spent the whole way home debating in my head whether to just bag the whole thing (racing)....

Luckily I copped the **** on to myself, used as many strategies as I know to work through the difficult stuff going on in my mind and regrouped. In retrospect- I think three pretty big factors contributed to Saturday's debacle.

1. My sleep has been absolute **** for nearly a month - both my beautiful girls are kicking off every single night and on avg I've been waking up 4-5 times a night and dealing w/ crying/ wanting to sleep w/ mammy and daddy, giving out etc. I can always feel myself getting more anxious when my sleep gets bad. Between my own work and the fact that I now have two kids under three to look after alone 2 days of the week (I have flexible working hours and we put the kids in creche for three days of the week. I take them on my own Monday and Tuesday) I'm pretty flat out I guess you could say.

2. The "heat" I put it in quotes because where I grew up 20-22 would be nothing. That said I've always struggled pushing really hard in heat and it tends to ramp up my HR/ send a lot of signals my brain interprets fully etc etc... I went through 5- 6 miles at what I would describe as a very reasonable effort for a HM but after half way it suddenly totally out of the blue turned into the Badwater run through Death Valley. I simply got caught out and should have seen it coming.

3. The cumulative fatigue of training isn't something I'm super used to. I tend to keep milage/ sessions in my comfort zone (that is to say 50-60 miles a week w/ a couple good sessions.) The ramp up in milage etc while needed for the marathon has just worn me down.

Anyway - none of this is an excuse and I thought pretty long about even putting it up here but for me if one person can benefit from reading my log, seeing a) what anxiety attacks can do b) think about the triggers and c) realise that plenty of people go through them everyday it will be worth posting about it.

Just want to say thanks again to the marshals in Athlone/ volunteers/ order of Malta. They were all amazing to me when I needed it most.

To conclude- bad day out there but objectively - it was 10/11 miles (w/ w/u) w/ 8 7.5-8 of those at 5:47 pace. Not a bad workout really...

dukeraoul

Back to training:

Last week

Mon 10 easy

Tuesday 10 w/ 8/ 1k avg 3:30 (kept it very handy here as prescribed)

Weds 10 easy good run w/ DR

Thurs 6 easy

Fri 4 easy

Sat- ****show

Sun. Back at it w/ 12 @ 7:25 pace. Still ****ing anxious but determined to fight through the rough patch.

I've a couple of sessions and a 5k race this week so looking to nail everything I can and get the confidence right back up. We're in the really important phase right now- so am hoping it all comes together for a great run in Frankfurt!

thewolf_ie

I think posting about it is a big step in recovering! FairPlay! I can totally relate to when it happens in the racing. I run to keep my stuff at bay so when it happens during it it can really mind feck you! I find the practice of mindfulness to be very useful. I like a guy called Jon Kabat-Zinn which I used a breathing technique of his racing the weekend

dublin runner

I have no doubt you'll have a great run in Frankfurt and that'll you will bounce back stronger than ever. Yesterday was one of those days for a lot of us. The main thing was you got off the course safely.....oh, and I beat you! :cool: As hollow a victory as ever there was considering my race.

Onwards and bloody upwards!

pconn062

Fair play for posting that A, I must admit, I don't know too much about that condition but it sounds awful. I'm glad you posted it up here as it could help others who also struggle with what sounds like quite a debilitating condition at times. As DR says, onwards and upwards from here.

AuldManKing

Good man for posting that - no doubt it'll help some people - I think we both know someone who has had similar experiences.

Regarding the anxiety, does it happen just at tougher paces in longer races (10m/HM) or has it shown its face at, say, 5k races (shorter timeframe/higher intensity) or Marathons (longer timeframe/lower intensity)??

Any pattern to it and are there warning signs from previous events such as lack of sleep etc??

Pacing Mule

I know you're not a fan of the back slapping but a simple thanks isn't enough for that post. Really appreciate you sharing that experience.

dukeraoul

Thanks for the kind words peeps. I guess out of failure comes opportunity. I didn't put in a long race effort on Saturday so was good to go for a session today...

12.5 miles including 3x3miles @ PMP target 6:05...

Nailed.

(6:05,6:04,6:03) (6:07, 6:05, 6:06) (6:10, 6:03, 6:07). Extremely happy as these felt pretty handy, I was dreading this session and I got back on the horse... a good day.

ThebitterLemon

dukeraoul wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words peeps. I guess out of failure comes opportunity. I didn't put in a long race effort on Saturday so was good to go for a session today...

12.5 miles including 3x3miles @ PMP target 6:05...

Nailed.

(6:05,6:04,6:03) (6:07, 6:05, 6:06) (6:10, 6:03, 6:07). Extremely happy as these felt pretty handy, I was dreading this session and I got back on the horse... a good day.

Back with a bang Q!

Nice session, what was the recovery?

TbL

dukeraoul

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Back with a bang Q!

Nice session, what was the recovery?

TbL

3 mins as per instructions the idea is the longer recovery actually makes the session a bit tougher as you have to get it all going again...

dukeraoul

Looks like the Boston crew is setting up nicely Tbl!!!

ThebitterLemon

dukeraoul wrote: »

Looks like the Boston crew is setting up nicely Tbl!!!

Defo Q,

I'm anxiously waiting for my acceptance, others seem to have been accepted but they must be triple checking Limerick

Its in my head now, so even if I dont get accepted l'll go down the sports tours route.

Probably a bit early for this but how many days will one need for the full Q experience

TbL

ThePiedPiper

Tasty session there DrQ. Good to get right back up on the horse after the issues Saturday. I ran an easy 7 miles Saturday and felt like cr@p, yet bombed a pmp run Sunday. Just one of those days.. All about the eyes on the big prize now, German beer and a wicked hair of the dog when all those other losers are bricking it in Merrion Sq.

menoscemo

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Defo Q,

I'm anxiously waiting for my acceptance, others seem to have been accepted but they must be triple checking Limerick

Its in my head now, so even if I dont get accepted l'll go down the sports tours route.

Probably a bit early for this but how many days will one need for the full Q experience

TbL

Don't worry TbL, the people who entered last year with a time from limerick, waterford/Tralee etc were made to wait a few weeks but we all got in. You'll have gotten an email saying you are in 'pending verification' right? If so they will be holding the place for you and it's just a matter of patience (I was losing it last year )
I still got in touch with sportstravel though as it was the cheapest way to travel/stay in Boston, deffo recommend travelling with them regardless. They will do you a cheaper deal if you have your own entry.

ThebitterLemon

Tnx Meno,

Yep, I got that pending verification mail, so I'll just have to wait. I'll look into Sports Travel option as well.

Tnx,

TbL

yaboya1

Sorry to read about your troubles at the weekend Q. Seems like you were far from the only one who had a bad day. It doesn't seem to have done you any lasting damage, judging by that session you nailed in the meantime though. Things still looking good for Frankfurt.

p.s. Like TbL, I'm half thinking of signing up for Boston with Sports Travel International myself. Is there an extra cost involved for the full quirky experience?

jebuz

Quality PMP session yesterday, just shows the HM wasn't at all an indicator of your current level of fitness. Great and honest report by the way, can't have been easy to write all that down but it'll no doubt make you stronger.

T runner

dukeraoul wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words peeps. I guess out of failure comes opportunity. I didn't put in a long race effort on Saturday so was good to go for a session today...

12.5 miles including 3x3miles @ PMP target 6:05...

Nailed.

(6:05,6:04,6:03) (6:07, 6:05, 6:06) (6:10, 6:03, 6:07). Extremely happy as these felt pretty handy, I was dreading this session and I got back on the horse... a good day.

If those felt handy it means that your LT is where it needs to be probably thanks to the weekend effort.

I failed to complete 2 races in the last 5 weeks before my marathon PB.
I rationalised that we all have a certain amount of mental energy to give over any period. A lot is used in the menatlly draining volume of marathon training and racing can really eat into that.
Obviously, suffering from anxiety attacks, a mental drain will affect you more seriously. The mind as well as the body needs kept under the red line i guess. Given that, a significant boost to LT with a short recovery was probably the optimum physical outcome from the weekend experience.

With that in mind: Id suggest using races to help with M pace sessions if you have a lot of heavy ones planned. Getting the body through those sessions with less mental energy (e.g a HM race @ M pace) means you can complete more of them, or the same amount with less mental energy expenditure.
The marathon is primarily about getting the body fit for the target race: the head will be ready and tag along.



BTW

After your marathon a period working on your speed might suit you given the sleeping patterns of your children. The volume will be low and the sessions will only tire your legs i.e. easier on the body and head; and its something that probably needs to be done for all of us at some stage (speed improvement)

dukeraoul

T runner wrote: »

If those felt handy it means that your LT is where it needs to be probably thanks to the weekend effort.

I failed to complete 2 races in the last 5 weeks before my marathon PB.
I rationalised that we all have a certain amount of mental energy to give over any period. A lot is used in the menatlly draining volume of marathon training and racing can really eat into that.
Obviously, suffering from anxiety attacks, a mental drain will affect you more seriously. The mind as well as the body needs kept under the red line i guess. Given that, a significant boost to LT with a short recovery was probably the optimum physical outcome from the weekend experience.

With that in mind: Id suggest using races to help with M pace sessions if you have a lot of heavy ones planned. Getting the body through those sessions with less mental energy (e.g a HM race @ M pace) means you can complete more of them, or the same amount with less mental energy expenditure.
The marathon is primarily about getting the body fit for the target race: the head will be ready and tag along.



BTW

After your marathon a period working on your speed might suit you given the sleeping patterns of your children. The volume will be low and the sessions will only tire your legs i.e. easier on the body and head; and its something that probably needs to be done for all of us at some stage (speed improvement)

Great post TR. Thankfully the guy coaching me knows what he's doing and you're right I reckon w/ that session he probably salvaged the weekend for me. Good to get some perspective on not finishing races but still nailing the goal marathon. agree completely with your point about mental capacity being maxed out in this type of training. Just FYI I'm racing 5k this weekend in Sligo and then running Moon Kilo Marathon @ MP- so totally in line with what you're saying.

Yeah- the 50 mile weeks w/ good quality stuff is much easier to cope w/ when demands are high on sleep etc. I had good success (even up to a HM PB) right after my second daughter was born using that approach...

Hope you're still healing up and nail another marathon soon!

dukeraoul

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Defo Q,


Probably a bit early for this but how many days will one need for the full Q experience

TbL

Kinda depends how long the cops hold yer passport for and how quick our hastily assembled legal team can spring us out of the slammer! :eek:

in all seriousness at the minimum a day or two before the race and a day or two after for a tour of Boston's seedy underbelly historic sights:D:D:D

dukeraoul

RunForestRun wrote: »

Tasty session there DrQ. Good to get right back up on the horse after the issues Saturday. I ran an easy 7 miles Saturday and felt like cr@p, yet bombed a pmp run Sunday. Just one of those days.. All about the eyes on the big prize now, German beer and a wicked hair of the dog when all those other losers are bricking it in Merrion Sq.

I'm liking that vision in my head a lot. - first man across the line from the two of us buys the first stein? what you think rfr?