Homeland Season 3 *Spoilers*

Pushtrak

miralize wrote: »

Why is there a 80 second intro? Do they think that poorly of their writing too?

Strange question. Seeing as most shows have a running time of 40 - 42 minutes, and this is a good 10 minutes on them, it isn't as if this has a short running time.

FloatingVoter

Pushtrak wrote: »

Strange question. Seeing as most shows have a running time of 40 - 42 minutes, and this is a good 10 minutes on them, it isn't as if this has a short running time.

Yes, but when a bad writer is attempting a complicated plot and getting lost themselves, they often tack little notes around the house to remind themselves who their characters are this paragraph.
When a committee that rarely meets is writing that becomes a necessity. This show has become so bad that it can only be blamed on a group of semi-creative people with no boss to control them.
Vince Gilligan controlled Breaking Bad. David Lynch had control of Twin Peaks, then lost it to the studio and regained it too late in season 2 Its obvious in hindsight. The control thing applies to all shows that were consistent from beginning to end whether its Dallas up until Bobby in the shower or Cheers all the way through.
Its not that the runners think poorly of their writing, its that they're trying to convince the audience that it is all still connected somehow.
I'm only watching this to see how bad it will get before someone wields the axe.

Pushtrak

Don't get me wrong, I agree the writing is bad, but the point that I was responding to was trying to (or seemingly so, at least) make a point "they make the intro long so they can have a shorter running ep" which is not in line with reality. I don't like how the intro is so long, but it's there to set a mood, and the fact of the writing quality deteriorating and the intro of the show being long have no links. They ought not be brought up as if they were equivalent.

FloatingVoter

You're right - its just long intros are usually for something important (season finales, cliffhanger solutions etc.) Its just grating for a show so bad to still regard itself so self-importantly. There's my grammar gone again.

expectationlost

[TV] New Homeland Audiobook Reveals What Brody Did At The End Of Season Two (POSSIBLE SPOILERS)
Read more at http://www.411mania.com/movies/news/301207/[TV]-New-Homeland-Audiobook-Reveals-What-Brody-Did-At-The-End-Of-Season-Two-(POSSIBLE-SPOILERS).htm#VYKmtc4vkmLbgH7M.99

expectationlost

interesting

PropJoe10

Any feedback on this weeks Homeland?

TwoShedsJackson

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Any feedback on this weeks Homeland?

Big improvement on the previous episodes this season.

Pushtrak

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Any feedback on this weeks Homeland?

Best episode this season, but you should probably hold off and see if it gets any better. Or worse, as I expect - at least in the short term.

FootShooter

Homeland Postmortem: Show Boss Breaks Down the "Magic Trick" of Season 3

clairefontaine

Big improvement.

snausages

FootShooter wrote: »

Homeland Postmortem: Show Boss Breaks Down the "Magic Trick" of Season 3

'Ha! We were just pretending to be retarded!' - Homeland writing staff

krustydoyle

Loved this weeks episode. Nice "twist" at the end that i didn't see coming.

PropJoe10

Nice to see some positive comments. I'll give it another couple of weeks, or maybe til the end of the season before I consider going back to it again.

spiritcrusher

Hmm... I don't know. I thought that twist was very ham fisted and clumsy. I instantly thought Carrie was going to go to Saul after she "accepted" the lawyer guy's offer but I can't believe that he'd fall for "I have to meet the real boss face to face" so easily, she had to do almost no convincing. It just all feels a bit too forced and a little bit cliched.
That said, there is a little bit of potential to make a decent storyline out of it from now on, particularly if they can cut out the utterly inane Dana rubbish. I'm sure they'll try to make it exciting soon but even if yer man does try and kill her I can't see myself caring.

dfbemt

Maybe a little bit harsh Crusher.

The storyline from last night was much improved. There was more than one twist and there are now a number of different storylines developing. It is a pity that this has taken 4 episodes and Homeland has probably lost a lot of followers but I feel that they could all be back within a few weeks.

I even thought they introduced some subtle storylines that they can come back and revisit later if they need to eg

Dana at the military base looking through the fence

Looking forward to next week now

FloatingVoter

Right, I got twenty minutes into it today before Carrie and her mental issues bored me solid. I'm assuming something happens in the last half to improve things. I'll report back tomorrow.

clairefontaine

Danes has to stop crying so much.

tvnutz

I was about ready to give up until the last few minutes of this episode. It has been like a bad soap opera, relationships and character turmoil and no actual plot,no villain, no terrorist threat, apart from the CIA just investigating the bombing. But the twist at the end was very interesting, the fact that it was all a ploy to get Carrie undercover makes it a lot better,pity it took 4 episodes to do it. They could have had this episode before the Brody one last week,would have worked better.

vepyewwo

spiritcrusher wrote: »

Hmm... I don't know. I thought that twist was very ham fisted and clumsy. I instantly thought Carrie was going to go to Saul after she "accepted" the lawyer guy's offer but I can't believe that he'd fall for "I have to meet the real boss face to face" so easily, she had to do almost no convincing. It just all feels a bit too forced and a little bit cliched.
That said, there is a little bit of potential to make a decent storyline out of it from now on, particularly if they can cut out the utterly inane Dana rubbish. I'm sure they'll try to make it exciting soon but even if yer man does try and kill her I can't see myself caring.

Totally agree with this but I'm willing to overlook how clumsy it felt if it finally kicks this season into gear. I was very close to giving up on this show but I'm back in for now. I'm sure they've lost quite a few viewers after the bore fest of the last 3 episodes.

Dana continues to drag every episode down. She had at least 15 minutes of screen time that would have been far better used on Saul and Farra (and Quinn, where was he?) doing more CIA stuff. I can't believe the writers actually think anyone is interested in Dana's little soap opera - it feels like it belongs in a totally different show. I was hoping the two of them were going to drive that car off a cliff!

MagicMarker

spiritcrusher wrote: »

Hmm... I don't know. I thought that twist was very ham fisted and clumsy. I instantly thought Carrie was going to go to Saul after she "accepted" the lawyer guy's offer but I can't believe that he'd fall for "I have to meet the real boss face to face" so easily, she had to do almost no convincing. It just all feels a bit too forced and a little bit cliched.
That said, there is a little bit of potential to make a decent storyline out of it from now on, particularly if they can cut out the utterly inane Dana rubbish. I'm sure they'll try to make it exciting soon but even if yer man does try and kill her I can't see myself caring.

She spent a month in a mental hospital with the CIA actively trying to keep her there and refused a request for a meet. Yep, no convincing at all involved here.

redt0m

So that's why Brody is in Venezuela...

He's on the same track as Carrie and Saul. Maybe he's working with Carrie and Saul doesn't know, or maybe he got there on his own via goin after a few Iranians - cue a nice flashback episode showing him goin all Jack Bauer-y on a few of them, slowly making his way to Venezuela to find out who did the bombing? Or maybe Carrie's just feeding him bits and pieces and letting him do his thing). Anyway, bet the guys he's 'staying' with are football team owner's henchmen and his 'in' to get him for the bombing and clear his name back home. They're both running the long con to get to yer man. Brody's got himself in a bit of a pickle now though, what with being strung up on heroin inside that tower after his attempt to get into the mosque failed. Bet there'll be a Raid-style action packed breakout in an episode or two. Maybe Quinn will end up givin him a hand...

ben.schlomo

Much improved and badly needed for them. But the Dana, Brodys wife stuff is just too irritating and pointless, we get their lives are ****, and i really dont care as they are in no way likeable people.

nbar12

wtf has happened to homeland? I have no idea how this is going to last 7 seasons. this current season is just ****e, it's such a pity because season 1 was unbelievable and 2 was nearly as good but jesus christ the storyline is just ridiculously shít now

Callanutd

Just dump the family. I couldnt care less about them, especially Dana.
I totally agree that this episode should have been before Brodys one, they probably felt four episodes was just too long to keep him out of the show. Hopefully the plot picks up a bit of pace now.

FloatingVoter

I watched it and didn't see much of an improvement. OK, it wasn't as unbelievable stupid as the Brody episode. There is a faint chance that the annoying child will be killed off but I really doubt that.

PropJoe10

nbar12 wrote: »

wtf has happened to homeland? I have no idea how this is going to last 7 seasons. this current season is just ****e, it's such a pity because season 1 was unbelievable and 2 was nearly as good but jesus christ the storyline is just ridiculously shít now

7 seasons, I hope you are kidding??

miralize

Well, 6 seasons and a movie.

JP Liz V1

Renewed

vitani

Did not see that ending coming. Glad I stuck with the show now.

uck51js9zml2yt

A nice cup of tea....the solution to all the worlds problems

Cool_CM

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Much improved and badly needed for them. But the Dana, Brodys wife stuff is just too irritating and pointless, we get their lives are ****, and i really dont care as they are in no way likeable people.

I disagree, Brody's wife is extremely likeable!

Balaclava1991

vitani wrote: »

Did not see that ending coming. Glad I stuck with the show now.

They have stolen the plot from straight from The Spy Who Came In From The Cold.

gavmcg92

Really enjoyed that episode. Next one looks good too if the bit at the end is anything to go by.

Only issue this week was how easy it was for some district court to over turn an order from the CIA to keep a patient in a mental institution because she was a risk to national security.

Balaclava1991

gavmcg92 wrote: »

Really enjoyed that episode. Next one looks good too if the bit at the end is anything to go by.

Only issue this week was how easy it was for some district court to over turn an order from the CIA to keep a patient in a mental institution because she was a risk to national security.

That would make the Iranians think this is too easy wouldn't it?

Unless they are pulling a double bluff?

The Black Oil

3.04

Would expect some dislike for this one early on as it seemed like a bunch of situational updates some of which felt more functional than cohesive and effective. It did pick up, though. Standard shouty psych ward scenes ahoy, no Carrie wasn't going to be released, and then the friendly nurse delivered the news.

Nice catch, Virgil. The Dana fence scene was decent, but almost would have preferred it if she was there alone, or else spoke to a stranger about her Dad deploying. Might have had more impact. Didn't buy the slippery lawyer scene, well, that Carrie would genuinely go along with it, so the keeping Saul close at the end wasn't too much of a surprise (it's TV, and from 24 DNA there'll be sub units within sub units in the CIA, like!).

'Don't smile, yet'.

DeepBlue

The "twist" makes no sense.

Presumably Carrie knew the plan all along but is distraught at Saul ratting her out on TV. Then she spends 3 episodes going to the press, being detained in an institution against her will, being surprised that her car's gone and that her bank account has been emptied and trying to secure help from her old friend who warns her off.

Then at the end it turns out she's been working with Saul all along as part of an elaborate ruse to appear that she's persona non grata at the CIA?

Does not compute..............even by Homeland standards.

Pushtrak

The question is when did they come up with the plan. We don't know that. I'm figuring it would have been after she saw him talk about her on TV. It doesn't make sense to me if it were before that point.

Balaclava1991

DeepBlue wrote: »

The "twist" makes no sense.

Presumably Carrie knew the plan all along but is distraught at Saul ratting her out on TV. Then she spends 3 episodes going to the press, being detained in an institution against her will, being surprised that her car's gone and that her bank account has been emptied and trying to secure help from her old friend who warns her off.

Then at the end it turns out she's been working with Saul all along as part of an elaborate ruse to appear that she's persona non grata at the CIA?

Does not compute..............even by Homeland standards.

Perhaps it was all part of remaining in character? To fool the bad guys she had to maintain psychological realism?

gavmcg92

Other than Saul, who is involved in this plan? From what I can tell it isn't the CIA as a whole.

gavmcg92

Pushtrak wrote: »

The question is when did they come up with the plan. We don't know that. I'm figuring it would have been after she saw him talk about her on TV. It doesn't make sense to me if it were before that point.

I'm thinking it was when he visited her in the hospital. You know when she told him to go fcuk himself

Balaclava1991

Pushtrak wrote: »

The question is when did they come up with the plan. We don't know that. I'm figuring it would have been after she saw him talk about her on TV. It doesn't make sense to me if it were before that point.

They came up with the plan before Carrie testified before the Senate.
The whole newspaper leak and Saul's testimony was all a ruse.
Saul and Carrie are probably keeping the other CIA head honcho out of the loop along with the Muslim chick.

vitani

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Perhaps it was all part of remaining in character? To fool the bad guys she had to maintain psychological realism?

Good point. If they managed to track her to ginger guy's house, they would have gotten suspicious if she had been too calm about the rest of what was happening.

Pushtrak

gavmcg92 wrote: »

I'm thinking it was when he visited her in the hospital. You know when she told him to go fcuk himself

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

They came up with the plan before Carrie testified before the Senate.
The whole newspaper leak and Saul's testimony was all a ruse.
Saul and Carrie are probably keeping the other CIA head honcho out of the loop along with the Muslim chick.

Wasn't Carrie alone when she saw Saul on TV? Who was she playing it up for? I'm more inclined towards what gav says to be honest. At least there is a consistency that makes sense there.

Balaclava1991

Pushtrak wrote: »

Wasn't Carrie alone when she saw Saul on TV? Who was she playing it up for? I'm more inclined towards what gav says to be honest. At least there is a consistency that makes sense there.

When she was watching the TV she was seeing herself being destroyed.
Simulated or not it would be upsetting.
A psychopath would take it in their stride as part of the mission.
Carrie is not a psychopath but is bi-polar and so is prone to dramatic mood swings.
Her weeping and crying was due to being off her meds.
An spy has to remain in character all the time.
One slip and they are screwed so once she is on a mission she has to experience the emotions she actually should feel.
That's why before she was able to pretend to be in love with Brody while she actually was really in love with him.

However I think it would have been far more fun to led the audience along and not tell them what is happening until the last episode where it would be revealed that Carrie is only pretending to be a traitor.

Instead we know she is only pretending to be a traitor and that Saul is running a brilliant sting operation which kind of spoils it all.

RobertKK

Well it sure made up for the earlier episodes in this series. A big improvement.

Don't know where Dana and that storyline is going and the relevance of it. At the moment with Brody elsewhere, it all seems not that important and more like filler material.

Pushtrak

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

When she was watching the TV she was seeing herself being destroyed.
Simulated or not it would be upsetting.
A psychopath would take it in their stride as part of the mission.

This is all true, but I think a distinction between responses between those two outcomes is possible. I didn't interpret it as someone who was just sad about something was was part of the plan. You mention that she'd have to be acting like she feels as if she weren't up to speed on the plan. That explanation isn't really satisfying to me. I don't think that is what the show is going for.

beazee

There was a link posted in #211 to an interview with the Executive Producer where you may find some answers:

In your mind, when did Carrie and Saul hatch this master plan?
Alex Gansa: I think they decided the very next day after the bomb went off. Carrie and Saul were culpable in what happened, and they were looking for some way to make good, to make it right, to get the guy who was ultimately responsible. They began to hatch the plan right then to figure out how to lure the bad guy of the season, Javadi, out of his anonymity in Iran.

Why would Carrie react the way she did to Saul "outing" her during his senate testimony if she knew this was all a scam?
Gansa: Saul is the one who leaked the idea that she was having a sexual relationship with Brody to the committee. Carrie was aware that he was doing that. However, it doesn't diminish the reality of it when it's actually presented in front of you. When we were shooting it, we were talking to Claire about, "This moment is going to have to play two ways. It's going to have to play one way if the audience is watching it for the first time not understanding that this is a ruse." But when you go back and look at it again, you'll understand that she's not surprised by what she's hearing. She's amazed at how it affects her to understand that she is to blame for what happened. That's where the emotion catches up with her in an unexpected way.

This obviously undoes some of the tension we saw building between Saul and Carrie after his "betrayal." But Carrie still seems upset that she had to stay in the hospital for so long.
Gansa: There are degrees of how far you take these operations, and for Carrie, he took it too far. So, that relationship, though they've been on the same side, is still tenuous. And you will see going forward that they're not best pals. It has exacted a toll on each of them and on their relationship.

vitani

^Thanks for that. Never thought I'd say this, but I think I'm going to rewatch the first few episodes of the series.

I'm curious to see how they play now that we know about the plan.

Pushtrak

When we were shooting it, we were talking to Claire about, "This moment is going to have to play two ways. It's going to have to play one way if the audience is watching it for the first time not understanding that this is a ruse." But when you go back and look at it again, you'll understand that she's not surprised by what she's hearing.

Honestly, to me it fell flat on its face.