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Renting industrial unit for living in?

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  • 16-04-2013 12:58am
    #1
    bombidol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭


    Hey folks. Silly question. Myself and the missus have been looking for somewhere to live for the last few months. And what we are looking for just isn't out there in this country. Every landlord we meet feels like a job interview. There's no wiggle room with money or services as they will just give it to the next person looking at the property who will ask no questions.

    My question is this. Is it possible to rent an industrial unit, like a small warehouse or factory, and live in it. I know stuff like cookers/showers etc wont be there, but that kit can be installed.
    What's the law in regards to this? I know it's a mental question, it's most likely never going to happen but i would be interested in hearing people's opinions and getting some knowledge on the idea.


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    #2
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    bombidol wrote: »
    Hey folks. Silly question. Myself and the missus have been looking for somewhere to live for the last few months. And what we are looking for just isn't out there in this country. Every landlord we meet feels like a job interview. There's no wiggle room with money or services as they will just give it to the next person looking at the property who will ask no questions.

    My question is this. Is it possible to rent an industrial unit, like a small warehouse or factory, and live in it. I know stuff like cookers/showers etc wont be there, but that kit can be installed.
    What's the law in regards to this? I know it's a mental question, it's most likely never going to happen but i would be interested in hearing people's opinions and getting some knowledge on the idea.

    You'd most likely need change of use planning permission.


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    #3
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Planning permission is one thing for sure. To think a LL will rent out an industrial unit and allow it is another. If you can't get past a regular LL can't see you convincing another to radically change the purpose of a building.

    The building regulations would be a big issue.

    Simply there is no chance to do it legally if you do it illegally you will be living in unsafe conditions.

    A LL is not going to refuse you for asking sensible questions but if you are asking ridiculous questions they will.


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    #4
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    bombidol wrote: »
    Hey folks. Silly question. Myself and the missus have been looking for somewhere to live for the last few months. And what we are looking for just isn't out there in this country. Every landlord we meet feels like a job interview. There's no wiggle room with money or services as they will just give it to the next person looking at the property who will ask no questions.

    If you are renting in a high demand area then this is to be expected (by all accounts many parts of Dublin right now are high demand). Landlords dont have to negotiate on price when there are a queue of people looking to rent the property.

    Also when renting I fully expect a landlord to be thorough when interviewing a potential tenant. They are trusting you with their high value investment; they are fully entitled to make sure that they are handing the keys over to the right people. Im afraid you are going to have to adjust your expectations if you think its going to be any different.


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    #5
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    It is like a job interview. Read some threads on here with Landlords trying to get rid of bad tenants. A LL needs to sus out good tenants. What sort of negotiation were you looking for on services?


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    #6
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    bombidol wrote: »
    My question is this. Is it possible to rent an industrial unit, like a small warehouse or factory, and live in it. I know stuff like cookers/showers etc wont be there, but that kit can be installed.
    What's the law in regards to this? I know it's a mental question, it's most likely never going to happen but i would be interested in hearing people's opinions and getting some knowledge on the idea.

    It's not possible to live in an industrial unit. There are many reasons from planning authorities through to needing a LL's permission. also a warehouse or similar would be entirely unsuitable to live in without major alterations.


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    #7
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    ...than being a bit flexible in terms of living arrangements for people who cannot afford conventional housing anymore.

    Those in Authority dictate a certain standard of housing on the market which is now beyond the reach of a lot of people. What happens then is that many people have to forego food, medical care, adequate clothing, heat etc in order to meet high rents demanded by suppliers in an artificially restricted market.

    While earnings and wages for many people have been cut drastically there hasn't been a corresponding reduction in the standard of housing, cutting out the frills and sticking to a basic level of housing affordable by the least skilled and marketable among us.

    What will happen is people living in garden sheds, garages, outhouses etc belonging to friends, neighbours etc on the QT.

    Multiple subletting will also happen unless Landlords can police this which is often very difficult or impossible.


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    #8
    bombidol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭bombidol


    I just find it unusual. I am a lease holder on a licensed premises. I've been there two years. At the start I sat down with the LL and we negotiated. Fairly. I had break clauses, rent and services all altered. Some were tiny alterations, but alterations non the less. I pay stupid money on the bar and I've been there a while. I'm locked into a long term lease and happy to continue. However none of this seems to hold fast with residential LLs. The fact that I'm already a high end tenant with a track record doesn't seem to get me anywhere. I'm having to look further and further afield for housing.
    I had one LL flip a coin between myself and another applicant the other day. Flip a coin. Literally.
    I understand its his choice I just found the process unsettling.
    I knew the industrial unit was a long shot bit if this continues ill end up in a tent with that guy on constitution hill!
    As it stands I have to move back in with my mother tomorrow while I continue to search for a house.


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    #9
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Where are you looking to rent, just out of interest? Where rent is in high demand its just a case of persevering until you find somewhere unfortunately.

    Would looking a bit further afield and commuting be an option to you? For example, if you are looking in the city center would you consider somewhere like Naas?


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    #10
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    Residential and Commercial property markets are completely different both in terms of the economics and the law involved. Primarily with commercial leases they tend to be for much longer periods and involve a lot more money so Landlords are more flexible on certain things. With residential properties shorter leases and laws that favour tenants mean Landlords are less flexible on the terms and much more cautious about protecting their investment.


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    #11
    bombidol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭bombidol


    Pub is south city centre but the mrs works in Dundrum. We looked at Donabate as there were some nice places. But coupled with fuel and bus costs we could of added 200 euro a month to our monthly rent and stayed closer to town to save on commute.
    We don't care where we live. I don't fear "rough" neighbourhoods etc. it's more a case of finding a place that's not a kip.
    Somewhere not cramped and not full of appliances from 30 years ago. No storage heaters. We are looking for a home. We aren't students that will live in any kip.


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    #12
    bombidol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭bombidol


    Yeah but surely the fact I have a high value lease already should sway a residential landlord for me a little ?
    valleyoftheunos wrote: »
    Residential and Commercial property markets are completely different both in terms of the economics and the law involved. Primarily with commercial leases they tend to be for much longer periods and involve a lot more money so Landlords are more flexible on certain things. With residential properties shorter leases and laws that favour tenants mean Landlords are less flexible on the terms and much more cautious about protecting their investment.


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    #13
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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    #14
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    bombidol wrote: »
    Yeah but surely the fact I have a high value lease already should sway a residential landlord for me a little ?

    Well maybe but not an awful lot, references from previous residential landlords would probably do much more for you.

    I have tonnes of sympathy for you though, looking for rented accommodation is a nightmare. Finding something you like, where you want it and for a price you can afford is tough enough but then you have to go through the process of having your offer accepted. and it all takes weeks.


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    #15
    Koptain Liverpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭Koptain Liverpool


    bombidol wrote: »
    Pub is south city centre but the mrs works in Dundrum. We looked at Donabate as there were some nice places. But coupled with fuel and bus costs we could of added 200 euro a month to our monthly rent and stayed closer to town to save on commute.
    We don't care where we live. I don't fear "rough" neighbourhoods etc. it's more a case of finding a place that's not a kip.
    Somewhere not cramped and not full of appliances from 30 years ago. No storage heaters. We are looking for a home. We aren't students that will live in any kip.

    Is it really that difficult to find a place??
    How much rent are you budgeting for?

    There are plenty of reasonably priced places in Rathmines, Milltown etc
    Is it just the fact that you're expecting landlords to haggle??

    I don't think you'll get much of a price reduction in Dublin. Perhaps in the suburbs but that brings the extra transport costs as you've said.


    I know for a fact that you could get a one bedroom apartment for around 750-850, a two bedroom apartment for 900-1000 or if you're really tight for cash a one bedroom studio flat for 550-700.


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    #16
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    doolox wrote: »
    ...than being a bit flexible in terms of living arrangements for people who cannot afford conventional housing anymore.
    .
    All nonsense.
    Artificial restriction proved not to be true in Dublin when RA went down. Might apply elsewhere.
    The removal of bedsits probably was a bit misguided.
    Ultimately the quality of rental property has been improved by raising the standards.
    You have taken the worst possible outcome and said it will certainly happen but ignored the other elements such as RA, local authority housing etc...


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    #17
    quad_red
    Registered Users Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    bombidol wrote: »
    Pub is south city centre but the mrs works in Dundrum. We looked at Donabate as there were some nice places. But coupled with fuel and bus costs we could of added 200 euro a month to our monthly rent and stayed closer to town to save on commute.
    We don't care where we live. I don't fear "rough" neighbourhoods etc. it's more a case of finding a place that's not a kip.
    Somewhere not cramped and not full of appliances from 30 years ago. No storage heaters. We are looking for a home. We aren't students that will live in any kip.

    http://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/15-raphoe-road-crumlin-dublin-12/2393754

    http://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/abbeydale-gardens-the-oaks-lucan-co-dublin/2313092


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    #18
    bombidol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭bombidol


    Contacted both of those places already. Waiting on a viewing. thanks though!
    quad_red wrote: »
    http://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/15-raphoe-road-crumlin-dublin-12/2393754

    http://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/abbeydale-gardens-the-oaks-lucan-co-dublin/2313092


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    #19
    zef
    Closed Accounts Posts: 947 ✭✭✭zef


    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/mypad-shipping-container-home-stepaside-dublin-18/2194885

    There's one of those mypads in situ. Made out of shipping containers. Interesting idea.
    I understand your point totally about finding suitable accom in Dublin. Good luck.


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    #20
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,411 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    doolox wrote: »
    ...than being a bit flexible in terms of living arrangements for people who cannot afford conventional housing anymore.

    Those in Authority dictate a certain standard of housing on the market which is now beyond the reach of a lot of people. What happens then is that many people have to forego food, medical care, adequate clothing, heat etc in order to meet high rents demanded by suppliers in an artificially restricted market.

    While earnings and wages for many people have been cut drastically there hasn't been a corresponding reduction in the standard of housing, cutting out the frills and sticking to a basic level of housing affordable by the least skilled and marketable among us.

    What will happen is people living in garden sheds, garages, outhouses etc belonging to friends, neighbours etc on the QT.

    Multiple subletting will also happen unless Landlords can police this which is often very difficult or impossible.
    On-topic please.

    Moderator


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    #21
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,411 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    You would have to pay rates, insurances, etc. on top of the rent.

    You may be asked for 3 months deposit, 3 months rent and have to sign a 2.75 year, 5 year or 35 year lease - one that you can't easily walk away from.


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    #22
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    zef wrote: »
    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/mypad-shipping-container-home-stepaside-dublin-18/2194885

    There's one of those mypads in situ. Made out of shipping containers. Interesting idea.
    I understand your point totally about finding suitable accom in Dublin. Good luck.
    You would still need the land, the services and planning permission. They are an interesting idea but not an easy solution.


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    #23
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    bombidol wrote: »
    Hey folks. Silly question. Myself and the missus have been looking for somewhere to live for the last few months. And what we are looking for just isn't out there in this country. Every landlord we meet feels like a job interview. There's no wiggle room with money or services as they will just give it to the next person looking at the property who will ask no questions.

    My question is this. Is it possible to rent an industrial unit, like a small warehouse or factory, and live in it. I know stuff like cookers/showers etc wont be there, but that kit can be installed.
    What's the law in regards to this? I know it's a mental question, it's most likely never going to happen but i would be interested in hearing people's opinions and getting some knowledge on the idea.


    You would have problems with the lease. Leases contain a user clause which means you cannot change the use without the landlords consent. There are also planning issues. The local authority would order you to vacate if youy are living without planning permission in an industrial unit. You would still be liable for the rent however.
    Besides all that, industrial units would not be pleasant to live in. There is usually little natural light and little insulation. There would be no garden or clothes line.
    there would also be the danger of burglary.


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