Hurling League Format

KevIRL

The biggest problem with the league is too few games, some teams have no games from April onwards, thats just mental. Leave it at 6 team divisions but make it home and away, that would give each team 10 games, with 5 of them at home, with most championship games at nuetral venues now there are few enough home games in hurling

Mod Edit
I've tried to bring all discussion on the hurling league format into this thread to keep it al together.

Clareman.

O Riain

KevIRL wrote: »

The biggest problem with the league is too few games, some teams have no games from April onwards, thats just mental. Leave it at 6 team divisions but make it home and away, that would give each team 10 games, with 5 of them at home, with most championship games at nuetral venues now there are few enough home games in hurling

If you have a 6 team division then you will 2/3 fairly good teams in division 2 absolutley annihilating everyone all around them at games with 10 people at them with no interest from players or supporters and those teams will never develop. Keep it the way it is.

KevIRL

O Riain wrote: »

If you have a 6 team division then you will 2/3 fairly good teams in division 2 absolutley annihilating everyone all around them at games with 10 people at them with no interest from players or supporters and those teams will never develop. Keep it the way it is.

6 team divisions is the way it currently is?

O Riain

KevIRL wrote: »

6 team divisions is the way it currently is?

Started an argument with you there over nothing haha I literally just read what I wanted to read. Thought you were calling for an increase in division sizes to 8. I know you said 6 but dont mind me.....

desaparecidos

Definitely needs to be 8 teams in division 1 and 2. This is how the teams finished this year and how 8 teams in each division would look like:

Div 1:
Kilkenny
Tipperary
Waterford
Galway
Clare
Cork
Limerick
Dublin

Div 2:
Offaly
Wexford
Antrim
Carlow
Westmeath
Laois
Kerry
Derry

This is the only way to bring teams on who are trying to break into the elites. You might look at Kerry or Derry and say they've no chance against Offaly or Wexford, but you could easily say the same about Limerick / Dublin vs Kilkenny / Tipperary.

deisefolife

desaparecidos wrote: »

Definitely needs to be 8 teams in division 1 and 2. This is how the teams finished this year and how 8 teams in each division would look like:

Div 1:
Kilkenny
Tipperary
Waterford
Galway
Clare
Cork
Limerick
Dublin

Div 2:
Offaly
Wexford
Antrim
Carlow
Westmeath
Laois
Kerry
Derry

This is the only way to bring teams on who are trying to break into the elites. You might look at Kerry or Derry and say they've no chance against Offaly or Wexford, but you could easily say the same about Limerick / Dublin vs Kilkenny / Tipperary.

Offaly,Wexford and Antrim deserve to be in the top flight too

desaparecidos

deisefolife wrote: »

Offaly,Wexford and Antrim deserve to be in the top flight too

Well they're not there now and haven't looked like getting close in the last couple of seasons in 1B, so no they don't deserve it.

No team deserves anything unless they earn it.

deisefolife

desaparecidos wrote: »

Well they're not there now and haven't looked like getting close in the last couple of seasons in 1B, so no they don't deserve it.

No team deserves anything unless they earn it.

how can they get good, if they playing poor teams no disrespect to any 1b team. but i think if they played the better teams it would only benefit them. imo

but its not likely to happen.

now that cork have gone down, you can be sure we'll have a new league structure next year

desaparecidos

deisefolife wrote: »

how can they get good, if they playing poor teams no disrespect to any 1b team. but i think if they played the better teams it would only benefit them. imo

but its not likely to happen.

now that cork have gone down, you can be sure we'll have a new league structure next year

What about Carlow, Westmeath or Laois? Why does it stop with Antrim who haven't particularly moved forward for a number of years?

And what about Carlow, Westmeath and Laois who won't be able to play in the Leinster Championship because Galway and Antrim are taking up two positions with the new rules coming in?

Thinkstoomuch

deisefolife wrote: »

how can they get good, if they playing poor teams no disrespect to any 1b team. but i think if they played the better teams it would only benefit them. imo

but its not likely to happen.

now that cork have gone down, you can be sure we'll have a new league structure next year

I dont think so this time.I cant see it happening.

jjjd

desaparecidos wrote: »

Well they're not there now and haven't looked like getting close in the last couple of seasons in 1B, so no they don't deserve it.

No team deserves anything unless they earn it.

What about Limerick? They won Division 1B in 2011 and they were denied promotion. Did they deserve not to be promoted despite winning Division 1B?

And what about Wexford. Wexford were relegated despite doing enough to stay up in 2011. Did they deserve to be relegated?

deisefolife

jjjd wrote: »

What about Limerick? They won Division 1B in 2011 and they were denied promotion. Did they deserve not to be promoted despite winning Division 1B?

And what about Wexford. Wexford were relegated despite doing enough to stay up in 2011. Did they deserve to be relegated?

limerick are a very good side, and they were hard done by when they changed the league format

Mal-Adjusted

What was the story with Limerick and Wexford? What rule changes were there to deny them spots?

deisefolife

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

What was the story with Limerick and Wexford? What rule changes were there to deny them spots?

i dunno about wexford.

but limerick were denied top flight status when the new league format came in,
after winning the division 2 league the year before.

jordainius

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

What was the story with Limerick and Wexford? What rule changes were there to deny them spots?

At the start of the 2011 the top 7 teams in Division 1 were assured of Division 1 hurling in 2012, and the winners of division 2 were assured of the eighth and final spot in division 1.

At the end of the league in 2011, Limerick had fairly and squarely won the right to play in division 1 in 2012, and Wexford fairly and squarely won the right to remain in division 1.

Then after the league had concluded, new format announced for 2012; Wexford were relegated to division 2 and Limerick were stripped of the promotion they had just won.

Had they announced the rule changes for 2013, and not 2012; fair enough. The change of format wasn't the worst part, they brought it in a season too soon and Limerick and Wexford were royally screwed over.

They weren't the only two counties either, Carlow and Down and Kerry had earned the right to play tier two hurling in 2012 and were shunted down to division three. Same story for many other of the smaller hurling counties.

randd1

deisefolife wrote: »

i dunno about wexford.

but limerick were denied top flight status when the new league format came in,
after winning the division 2 league the year before.

Limerick were the very ones that wanted the league structure shifted to the way it is when they were relegated so they could have more competitive games in the lower division. They only changed their tune when they topped the lower division a few weeks later.

Wexford were hard done by alright, but considering the way they've been playing in recent years, it may have been a blessing in disguise for them.

desaparecidos

jjjd wrote: »

What about Limerick? They won Division 1B in 2011 and they were denied promotion. Did they deserve not to be promoted despite winning Division 1B?

And what about Wexford. Wexford were relegated despite doing enough to stay up in 2011. Did they deserve to be relegated?

Same thing happened Carlow that year only one division lower. But I guess it happening to Limerick is much more important.

8 teams in Division 1 and 2 (OK you can call them 1A and 1B if you really want) would actually BENEFIT Limerick and Wexford so I don't know what the problem is.

Given this years standings, Limerick would be straight into Division 1. Wexford would have a much better chance of getting into Division 1 and playing Kilkenny/Tipperary/whoever than the chances they currently have of getting out of current 1B.

jordainius

randd1 wrote: »

Limerick were the very ones that wanted the league structure shifted to the way it is when they were relegated so they could have more competitive games in the lower division. They only changed their tune when they topped the lower division a few weeks later.

This is absolute garbage and you know it, Limerick did not complain about the 2009-2011 structure. They were unsurprisingly relegated due to the Justin fiasco in 2010 and they quietly went about their business and went straight back up in 2011.

You won't be able to find a link to back up your lie/claim because no such talk came from the Limerick camp. We were justifiably furious when the promotion we rightfully won had been taken away effectively making our 2011 league run pointless.

deisefolife

randd1 wrote: »

Limerick were the very ones that wanted the league structure shifted to the way it is when they were relegated so they could have more competitive games in the lower division. They only changed their tune when they topped the lower division a few weeks later.


i dunno anything about that.

Wexford were hard done by alright, but considering the way they've been playing in recent years, it may have been a blessing in disguise for them.

I agree with you there...

randd1

jordainius wrote: »

This is absolute garbage and you know it, Limerick did not complain about the 2009-2011 structure. They were unsurprisingly relegated due to the Justin fiasco in 2010 and they quietly went about their business and went straight back up in 2011.

You won't be able to find a link to back up your lie/claim because no such talk came from the Limerick camp. We were justifiably furious when the promotion we rightfully won had been taken away effectively making our 2011 league run pointless.

http://sport.irishexaminer.com/post/2011/09/28/Hurling-league-controversy-rumbles-on.aspx

Limerick, at the time it was first mooted, when they knew the were playing in the second tier, supported the idea of the restructure of the league to the current format as it suited them because they would have had more competitive games in the second tier.

It was only when they were virtually guaranteed promotion to the top flight that they changed their mind when the restructure was formally ratified the following Spring.

Browney7

randd1 wrote: »

http://sport.irishexaminer.com/post/2011/09/28/Hurling-league-controversy-rumbles-on.aspx

Limerick, at the time it was first mooted, when they knew the were playing in the second tier, supported the idea of the restructure of the league to the current format as it suited them because they would have had more competitive games in the second tier.

It was only when they were virtually guaranteed promotion to the top flight that they changed their mind when the restructure was formally ratified the following Spring.

I have no idea where are getting thus from. Does not responding to the proposal = wanting two divisions of 6?

jordainius

randd1 wrote: »

http://sport.irishexaminer.com/post/2011/09/28/Hurling-league-controversy-rumbles-on.aspx

Limerick, at the time it was first mooted, when they knew the were playing in the second tier, supported the idea of the restructure of the league to the current format as it suited them because they would have had more competitive games in the second tier.

It was only when they were virtually guaranteed promotion to the top flight that they changed their mind when the restructure was formally ratified the following Spring.

Once again, I reiterate my point that you won't find a link to back up your claim/lie.

You've linked an article which states they didn't respond to a survey (does nothing to prove your lie), and you haven't given any evidence of Limerick voting for the changes. Because they didn't vote for it or support it.

You see, you've made that bit up, that's what we call a lie.

nice_guy80

the league is fine as it is - short and sweet

teams need an extra game or two in the championship

buck65

Clare consigned Cork to the virtual abyss of Div 1B next season, surely Uncle Frank won't let this happen? how are Cork going to get around this one.. let's watch and see what happens.

KevIRL

I've given my thoughts on this on other threads. The league format is mostly fine as is. I do feel more games are needed though and they should look at making it home and away games. Keep the 6 team structure and make it home and away games for each team, meaning teams get 10 league games. Have the top 2 go into a league final with the bottom 2 getting relegated, top 2 come up from div 2.

Thats what I feel should happen, what will happen though unfortunately is some sort of change to keep Cork in the top division.

the kelt

The current league set up is a joke and has been for a number of years.

I watched my own county a few years ago produce a miracle result on the last day in Thurles to ensure their Div 1 status only for the powers that be to decide to use the power of the pen to relegate them along with denying Limerick the fought for right they had to div 1 hurling the following year.

If the GAA are serious about the game developing in as many counties as possible then they are failing miserably as the gap is only getting bigger to the top 6 or 7 and the rest.

Im sure Cork wont be relegated, sure they should have been relegated the year they went on strike but of course that didnt happen either.

eigrod

The only people that I have heard saying it will change to suit Cork are people from outside Cork. JBM was very clear in his post-match interview that they will get on with it.

With the new format to be introduced for 2014, Cork & Limerick are now virtually guaranteed a QF league place next year as top 4 in Div 1A will play top 4 in Div 1B in newly introduced Quarter Finals.

Limerick are the ones most hard done by the changes made in the last few years, not Cork.

Cork footballers have been in Div 2 often enough over the last couple of decades and never asked for the format of that to change.

buck65

eigrod wrote: »

The only people that I have heard saying it will change to suit Cork are people from outside Cork. JBM was very clear in his post-match interview that they will get on with it.

With the new format to be introduced for 2014, Cork & Limerick are now virtually guaranteed a QF league place next year as top 4 in Div 1A will play top 4 in Div 1B in newly introduced Quarter Finals.

Limerick are the ones most hard done by the changes made in the last few years, not Cork.

Cork footballers have been in Div 2 often enough over the last couple of decades and never asked for the format of that to change.

We all know who runs Cork GAA.

Hammer Archer

I think it's ridiculous that teams that finish top of their division aren't automatically promoted. Equally, the team that finishes rock bottom of their division should be automatically relegated.
My own county sailed through division 2B, winning all 5 games and ending up the top scorers in all 6 divisions with 9-90. Yet they had an off day yesterday and lost the final in an extremely windy Newbridge to London (who they beat by 9 points earlier in the league) and will remain in division 2B.
Weaker counties simply will not improve with this system. But it'll be interesting what the GAA do now that a traditionally big county has been relegated from 1A. This could well force their hand to change the hurling format.

eigrod

One problem with the current format, I think Michael Duignan alluded to it, is that counties cannot try out new talent in it now. Even Kilkenny had to very quickly call on the cavalry of their top players to ensure they didn't slip down to the bottom 2. Counties are now forced to play their Championship team from about the 2nd game in. While this is great for the spectator, it's not good for emerging talent.

KevIRL

eigrod wrote: »

One problem with the current format, I think Michael Duignan alluded to it, is that counties cannot try out new talent in it now. Even Kilkenny had to very quickly call on the cavalry of their top players to ensure they didn't slip down to the bottom 2. Counties are now forced to play their Championship team from about the 2nd game in. While this is great for the spectator, it's not good for emerging talent.

I do agree the league was great this year and extremely competitve, I do however feel that some teams only getting 5 league games is just not enough, teams dont need to be finished the league when April comes around, it should be really getting going around then

Whats not so great for the spectator though is only 5 league games, even moreso if your county has only 2 home games. Someone on thestripeyman forum (KK) made a v good post about the lack of home games in hurling, pointing out that Bruce Springsteen will play for longer in Nowlan Park this summer than Kilkenny will have over the past 2 years.

I see above that some changes are due next year which will see the top 4 in 1A advance to a QF, this is a postive move to redress the issue of 1 team in 1A being finished the league by the end of March. Although the situation would still exist for some 1B teams

eigrod

KevIRL wrote: »

I do agree the league was great this year and extremely competitve, I do however feel that some teams only getting 5 league games is just not enough, teams dont need to be finished the league when April comes around, it should be really getting going around then

Whats not so great for the spectator though is only 5 league games, even moreso if your county has only 2 home games. Someone on thestripeyman forum (KK) made a v good post about the lack of home games in hurling, pointing out that Bruce Springsteen will play for longer in Nowlan Park this summer than Kilkenny will have over the past 2 years.

I see above that some changes are due next year which will see the top 4 in 1A advance to a QF, this is a postive move to redress the issue of 1 team in 1A being finished the league by the end of March. Although the situation would still exist for some 1B teams

On your last point, my understanding of the change is that the top 4 in both divisions go into the QF (1 v 4, 2 v 3, 3 v 2 and 4 v 1). The bottom 2 in each division play off for relegation. Therefore everyone gets at least 1 'knockout' game.

KevIRL

eigrod wrote: »

On your last point, my understanding of the change is that the top 4 in both divisions go into the QF (1 v 4, 2 v 3, 3 v 2 and 4 v 1). The bottom 2 in each division play off for relegation. Therefore everyone gets at least 1 'knockout' game.

That would be a definite improvement alright.

deisefolife

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm pleased to see Cork go down today, not that I've any dislike of them. But it's change, if Clare went down it would be bacj to last year,, next year Dublin will probably go down.

Clare seemed the better team today, so well done to them.

As for the league, 6 games is simply not enough. Look at the final league table, 2 points seperating the top from bottom...what a joke.

Limerick and Cork should be in the top division.

the league format is a joke.. but what can we do. the more games that get played will only benefit the teams and players, and build confidence in the weaker counties,and younger players

Mr Tibbs

eigrod wrote: »

The only people that I have heard saying it will change to suit Cork are people from outside Cork. JBM was very clear in his post-match interview that they will get on with it.

With the new format to be introduced for 2014, Cork & Limerick are now virtually guaranteed a QF league place next year as top 4 in Div 1A will play top 4 in Div 1B in newly introduced Quarter Finals.

Limerick are the ones most hard done by the changes made in the last few years, not Cork.

Cork footballers have been in Div 2 often enough over the last couple of decades and never asked for the format of that to change.

There was a piece in The Examiner last week by Alan Browne saying that if Cork lose and are relegated it would not be allowed to happen.
Here is a ling to the article.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0410/ireland/browne-raises-relegation-fears-227949.html

eigrod

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

There was a piece in The Examiner last week by Alan Browne saying that if Cork lose and are relegated it would not be allowed to happen.
Here is a ling to the article.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0410/ireland/browne-raises-relegation-fears-227949.html

Thanks for that. I hadn't read that. To be fair, all he seems to be saying is that theere will be calls to restructure. He seems to say himself that the league worked well and Cork knew the situation they were facing.

I still think the system will remain 2 x 6 teams for next year anyway.

keane2097

Kev's idea of home and away games sounds good to me.

Mountainlad

eigrod wrote: »

One problem with the current format, I think Michael Duignan alluded to it, is that counties cannot try out new talent in it now. Even Kilkenny had to very quickly call on the cavalry of their top players to ensure they didn't slip down to the bottom 2. Counties are now forced to play their Championship team from about the 2nd game in. While this is great for the spectator, it's not good for emerging talent.

Don't agree with that. Waterford have used 35 players in the past two years, 15 of which had seen little or no game prior to that, and have still managed to stay up.

Kilkenny themselves have tried out Conor Fogarty, Lester Ryan, Eoin Murphy in goal, Ger Aylward, Paudie Walsh, Willie Phelan has made appearances off the bench. How many more players do you think they need or want to try out?

I would even think that it's more beneficial for some of the younger players to be playing with better players as they will get to know them better and are more likely to see the ball, especially if they're a corner forward. And playing against other Counties best is definitely much better for them. It doesn't help the teams in Division 2, but I don't think it harms teams in Division 1 unless they're relegated.

Thinkstoomuch

eigrod wrote: »

Thanks for that. I hadn't read that. To be fair, all he seems to be saying is that theere will be calls to restructure. He seems to say himself that the league worked well and Cork knew the situation they were facing.

I still think the system will remain 2 x 6 teams for next year anyway.

yeah he doesnt agree we should have the rules changed.
All lot of cork people yesterday at the match dont want the rules to be changed as we dont deserve to be in div 1A by default.
Im of the same view.
Id be much happier if our CCB put systems and structures and the right people in charge of our underage teams to make sure on the field of play we are never relegated again than have the rules changed just because we are Cork.
The problems in cork hurling need to be solved rather than papering over the cracks which will happen if the rules are changed.
The rules wont be changed this time.

Mr Tibbs

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

yeah he doesnt agree we should have the rules changed.
All lot of cork people yesterday at the match dont want the rules to be changed as we dont deserve to be in div 1A by default.
Im of the same view.
Id be much happier if our CCB put systems and structures and the right people in charge of our underage teams to make sure on the field of play we are never relegated again than have the rules changed just because we are Cork.
The problems in cork hurling need to be solved rather than papering over the cracks which will happen if the rules are changed.
The rules wont be changed this time.

I don' know but I have to say I really don't like this league the way it is. Its far to tight and put what are amateur player's under enormous pressure. I taught it wasn't a bad game overall and little things made a big difference in the end.

the kelt

Both John Mullane and Davy Fitzgerald have both came out today criticising the current system and i agree with both of them.

Mullane spoke about how he would like to see the return of two groups of 6 teams with the leagues mixed with the stronger and weaker counties and that the weaker teams need the experience of playing the bigger teams. I witnessed it myself in Wexford when we gained promotion and struggled for the 1st few games in Div 1A but then started to improve each day we went out and actually secured our Div 1A status on the last day with a result agains Tipp only for HQ to relegate us anyway.

Two groups of 6, top 4 in each group into Q/F's and bottom 2 in each group play out for relegation. Also play the league earlier and scrap these pre season tournaments which then give all counties plenty or meaningful league games.

Mountainlad

the kelt wrote: »

Both John Mullane and Davy Fitzgerald have both came out today criticising the current system and i agree with both of them.

Mullane spoke about how he would like to see the return of two groups of 6 teams with the leagues mixed with the stronger and weaker counties and that the weaker teams need the experience of playing the bigger teams. I witnessed it myself in Wexford when we gained promotion and struggled for the 1st few games in Div 1A but then started to improve each day we went out and actually secured our Div 1A status on the last day with a result agains Tipp only for HQ to relegate us anyway.

Two groups of 6, top 4 in each group into Q/F's and bottom 2 in each group play out for relegation. Also play the league earlier and scrap these pre season tournaments which then give all counties plenty or meaningful league games.

That would actually be the way I'd do things as well. Maybe seed it as well so that the groups have some sort of balance. That way you don't have horribly one-sided quarter finals, and you also give the 'weaker' teams a chance to play against the stronger teams in the Division. It's still quite competitive.

blue note

Mountainlad wrote: »

That would actually be the way I'd do things as well. Maybe seed it as well so that the groups have some sort of balance. That way you don't have horribly one-sided quarter finals, and you also give the 'weaker' teams a chance to play against the stronger teams in the Division. It's still quite competitive.

What they have now is kind of a warped way of seeding that though. Essentially you have a weak group and a strong group so that teams are playing against teams that they have a chance against, instead of London and Antrim playing 5 games that they have practically zero chance of winning which is what would happen with two equal groups of six.

I honestly just can't think of what is the best way of doing it. There are just too few teams of a high enough standard to make a proper structure.

The Lopper

There has been lots of crowing about how great the league was this year. Sure Divsion 1A had this great finale where all the teams could be top or bottom in this artificial situation where the teams only played 5 matches.

Divsion 1B on the other hand was dire. Crowds were pitiful as was the hurling, you had the the top two teams sleep-walking through matches waiting for the inevitable final. We knew what the final would be last year, we knew what it would be this year and you might as well pencil in Thurles next April for Cork vs Limerick in the 1b decider next year. Carlow were praised over and over for their progress this year yet at the end of it they were back down to the wilderness of Division 2. Offaly and Wexford are probably going to be stuck in 1B for eternity under the current system.

To make the system even more farcical, they have brought in this top 4 of 1A vs top 4 of 1B thing in, as if they are two equal leagues.

Division 1 could be an 8 division team next year without hurting any of the competitiveness. KK, Tipp, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Dublin,Cork, Limerick. Maybe division 2 could be a 6 team division then as Offaly, Wexford, Antrim, Carlow, Laois, Westmeath would probably be the progressing counties that are below the top tier and above the rest, although no doubt they would argue that they should have more matches for these teams. Two up and two down would probably dilute that competitiveness somewhat, but it is a fairer system in my view. Do away with the promotion and relegation finals, and have it as a proper league. People say that the likes of Carlow would learn loads from playing top opposition in 1B, but what exactly they learn by playing a tier 1 county sleepwalking their way to a divisional final I don't know.

Looking at it purely in financial terms, the 8 teams that would be in division 1 would bring more better attended matches. Limerick are probably going to have to play their home matches in Kilmallock next season and it hardly make sense for Cork to open PUC to watch them play the likes of Laois in front of a few hundred people. As a Limerick man people might say I'm biased but having observed Division 1B for the last few seasons I fail to see how the division is helping any of the teams in it. It is a hellhole for the two teams with the only hope of escaping it and pointless for everyone else.

rebel girl 15

Ah the poll really doesn't describe things properly as the league format IS changing next year, with quarter finals for the top four in division 1A and 1B crossing over.

Limerick have drawn the short straw in all this, won promotion only to be told that they would be staying where they were because of a restructing of the league. This league has been changed so many times it is ridiculous, and now its at a point where a lot of people are unhappy about it. Its made the whole thing much more competitive at the top, because no one knew until the last day who was going to be in the semi finals and the relegation playoff. I remember a call not so long ago to make the league more competitive which they have done for division 1A, but not lower down.

I think the more so called "weaker" teams exposed to higher standard of hurling will only help the game, but the structure change has to come from counties. I honestly don't know the best structure to suit everyone, I don't think there is one structure that will suit everyone

Mr Tibbs

The Lopper wrote: »

There has been lots of crowing about how great the league was this year. Sure Divsion 1A had this great finale where all the teams could be top or bottom in this artificial situation where the teams only played 5 matches.

Divsion 1B on the other hand was dire. Crowds were pitiful as was the hurling, you had the the top two teams sleep-walking through matches waiting for the inevitable final. We knew what the final would be last year, we knew what it would be this year and you might as well pencil in Thurles next April for Cork vs Limerick in the 1b decider next year. Carlow were praised over and over for their progress this year yet at the end of it they were back down to the wilderness of Division 2. Offaly and Wexford are probably going to be stuck in 1B for eternity under the current system.

To make the system even more farcical, they have brought in this top 4 of 1A vs top 4 of 1B thing in, as if they are two equal leagues.

Division 1 could be an 8 division team next year without hurting any of the competitiveness. KK, Tipp, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Dublin,Cork, Limerick. Maybe division 2 could be a 6 team division then as Offaly, Wexford, Antrim, Carlow, Laois, Westmeath would probably be the progressing counties that are below the top tier and above the rest, although no doubt they would argue that they should have more matches for these teams. Two up and two down would probably dilute that competitiveness somewhat, but it is a fairer system in my view. Do away with the promotion and relegation finals, and have it as a proper league. People say that the likes of Carlow would learn loads from playing top opposition in 1B, but what exactly they learn by playing a tier 1 county sleepwalking their way to a divisional final I don't know.

Looking at it purely in financial terms, the 8 teams that would be in division 1 would bring more better attended matches. Limerick are probably going to have to play their home matches in Kilmallock next season and it hardly make sense for Cork to open PUC to watch them play the likes of Laois in front of a few hundred people. As a Limerick man people might say I'm biased but having observed Division 1B for the last few seasons I fail to see how the division is helping any of the teams in it. It is a hellhole for the two teams with the only hope of escaping it and pointless for everyone else.

I'd say there are a awful lot of people from every county involved who are in total agreement with you.

Frankie Lee

The Lopper wrote: »

There has been lots of crowing about how great the league was this year. Sure Divsion 1A had this great finale where all the teams could be top or bottom in this artificial situation where the teams only played 5 matches.

Divsion 1B on the other hand was dire. Crowds were pitiful as was the hurling, you had the the top two teams sleep-walking through matches waiting for the inevitable final. We knew what the final would be last year, we knew what it would be this year and you might as well pencil in Thurles next April for Cork vs Limerick in the 1b decider next year. Carlow were praised over and over for their progress this year yet at the end of it they were back down to the wilderness of Division 2. Offaly and Wexford are probably going to be stuck in 1B for eternity under the current system.

To make the system even more farcical, they have brought in this top 4 of 1A vs top 4 of 1B thing in, as if they are two equal leagues.

Division 1 could be an 8 division team next year without hurting any of the competitiveness. KK, Tipp, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Dublin,Cork, Limerick. Maybe division 2 could be a 6 team division then as Offaly, Wexford, Antrim, Carlow, Laois, Westmeath would probably be the progressing counties that are below the top tier and above the rest, although no doubt they would argue that they should have more matches for these teams. Two up and two down would probably dilute that competitiveness somewhat, but it is a fairer system in my view. Do away with the promotion and relegation finals, and have it as a proper league. People say that the likes of Carlow would learn loads from playing top opposition in 1B, but what exactly they learn by playing a tier 1 county sleepwalking their way to a divisional final I don't know.

I'd agree with you about an 8 team division 1 but see no reason why an 8 team division 2 would not work. Counties like Kerry, Meath, Wicklow and Kildare would not be too far off the quality of Westmeath and Carlow. Having these counties competing would result in a more competitive bottom half of the division rather than having Carlow and Westmeath just coming up short on an annual basis.

Treble20

As a Cork fan I hope the format stays the same and not changed because Frank the Wa*k isn't happy about it. Cork were deservedly beat yesterday and deserve to be in 1B next year.

jordainius

What really annoys me is that this probably wouldn't be an issue had Clare been relegated. (That's not me having a go at anyone who has posted here or Cork)
I fully expect that the format will be changed in reaction to the relegation of Cork. Exactly the type of thing the GAA would do.

The format used up to 2008 (2 unseeded groups of 6) worked fine. I'd fully agree with JMullane and DFitzgerald.

End of the day, there is no format we would all agree on. There is no ideal system for the NHL, nobody here would be able to suggest a format that would be beyond criticism.

Treble20 wrote: »

As a Cork fan I hope the format stays the same and not changed because Frank the Wa*k isn't happy about it. Cork were deservedly beat yesterday and deserve to be in 1B next year.

One thing about Cork fans; the reason I've always liked them, they tend to be as annoying as fcuk in terms of banter before and during a game, but post game I have always found Cork fans to be very gracious come victory or defeat. More so than fans of any other county. And the general consensus I've noticed from Cork fans in the last day can be summed up by the above quoted post.

Amprodude

Treble20 wrote: »

As a Cork fan I hope the format stays the same and not changed because Frank the Wa*k isn't happy about it. Cork were deservedly beat yesterday and deserve to be in 1B next year.

Exactly we don't deserve to be in Division 1A. I hope nothing will be changed either leave the format the way it is. We aren't good enough and its no harm for the CCB to see this. Come next year there will be poor turnouts at matches and this will hurt the pockets of Frank and the CCB. They have to wake up to reality for once. Sadly, there is a huge famine in Cork hurling that could go on for decades if something isnt done fast. I reckon in Munster alone, we are ranked about 5th above Kerry, I think Limerick would beat us in championship with the current setup.

Thinkstoomuch

Amprodude wrote: »

Exactly we don't deserve to be in Division 1A. I hope nothing will be changed either leave the format the way it is. We aren't good enough and its no harm for the CCB to see this. Come next year there will be poor turnouts at matches and this will hurt the pockets of Frank and the CCB. They have to wake up to reality for once. Sadly, there is a huge famine in Cork hurling that could go on for decades if something isnt done fast. I reckon in Munster alone, we are ranked about 5th above Kerry, I think Limerick would beat us in championship with the current setup.

I agree as a Cork fan ,we are here for a reason.I hope we serve our time now as we were not good enough on the field of play.Simple as that.
A lot of Counties hate Cork and the last thing we want is to add fuel to that and in order to get any diginity and respect back we have to be treated the same.
Just because were Cork it should not be changed.
Fans have felt the pain for years of our Hurlings demise in the County.
Now the CCB will feel it in their pockets next year.
At this year home games against Tipp and Clare( a double header) we had an average of around 6 thousand at each game.
In 2011 against Offaly in the Pairc there was only 1406 for the league game.
Thats against offaly an attractive tie in terms we have a history with them.
Thats is poor though.
Imagine Cork V Laois.Will Laois fans make the journey for a round trip for a game they have no chance of winning.
There would be barely 500 hundreds id say at the game.I could not see many cork fans travelling either.
Are you going to spend 13 euro for a game and another 20 euro in petrol if you have a distance to travel for Cork V Laois a team we scored ten goals against in 2011.And with all due respect to Laois but their not box office.
If its pissing out the heavens and there is six nations rubgy on tv most people won't stir for a game like that.
How many Cork fans will travel up to Antrim?
There might be a bigger crowd at the limerick game if it was a home game but I doubt they will get 6 thousand not even if they moved it to Mallow which their talking about doing for Football games over poor turnouts.
They never thought they have the same problem with Hurling.
They still believe in this Mushroom Theory that Cork Hurlers are produced over night in the blink of an eye.