Hurling League Format

Dampintheattic

premierstone wrote: »

Do you think an amatuer organisation should be run that professionals?



Not too many were worried about the small fish in Munster Football a few weeks back when they were shafted by the powers that be with suprise suprise the help of Cork and Limerick, looks like the footballers of Clare, Tipp, Waterford and Limerick were merely pawns in all of this.

Exactly. Hopefully, the players of Clare, Tipp, Waterford and Limerick will follow through, and refuse to play in this revised Munster championship.

What will be next in Munster. Seed Cork and Tipp hurlers, for the hurling championship:eek:

Dampintheattic

feargale wrote: »

It's not the first time the league goal-posts were moved in mid-game. Bad enough doing it to facilitate the favoured, but it's been done in the past to keep one or two developing counties down.

There needs to be a bit of solidarity between the smaller counties.
Let them all boycott the league.
Leave it to the big guns. Cork, Tipp and KK. Let them at it away for themselves:D

I wouldn't mind so much the promotion of Cork, if the same people hadn't demoted Wexford a few years ago.
It just smells bad, to move the goal posts one year, in a manner which sets back a second tier hurling county like Wexford, and come along two years later, to promote and give a leg up to a hurling superpower, like Cork.

Rotten, rotten, rotten:mad:

feargale

desaparecidos wrote: »

Well they're not there now and haven't looked like getting close in the last couple of seasons in 1B, so no they don't deserve it.

No team deserves anything unless they earn it.

That's not the point. The issue is about the format being constantly changed in midstream. Hardly anyone knows what they are playing for.

Warper

It is an absolute scandal that they are thinking about an 8 team League 1A next season. Just because Cork got relegated and lets face it that is the only reason. They didnt give a damn when Clare, Limerick, Dublin etc. were down there but low and behold Cork get relegated and they want to change the format straight away. It is true of Davy, they dont give a damn about the little fish. Fcuk the likes of Offaly, Antrim, Laois etc. let them hurl away between themselves.

Dyr

Why dont they just pull the team to be promoted out of a hat?

Well, apart from the fact that the format is changing only to get the langers back in the top tier :pac:

Amprodude

KevIRL wrote: »

Expect news later today of a change to of format to 2013 all Ireland so that cork can win that too

No we arent good enough for a chance of that. We had a chance last Sat to change that and failed.

sid waddell

If it is going to be an 8 team Division 1, Wexford should get Cork's place as they weren't relegated on the field two years ago when the previous scam was pulled.

Cork should play where they belong - with Offaly, Antrim, Laois and Leitrim etc. They were relegated on the field and should stay relegated.

Browney7

No doubt its a bit of a stroke from GAA HQ but I actually wouldn't be that upset if I was Wexford or Offaly. Realistically they should have too much for Laois, Antrim, Carlow etc and so these two counties now have a better chance of getting to the top table. All they have to do is get the better of one another next year. The relegated team could potentially be anyone such is the way hurling has gone.

Was it really doing Antrim, Carlow etc good to be playing the perceived weaker more traditional counties in Limerick Dublin and Clare over the past three years and still losing?

Ourselves in Limerick and Wexford and Offaly had reason to feel hard done by when they rejigged the league three years ago. Limerick had gotten relegated the previous year through our own fault with the strike, topped Division 2 the year after yet still had to go to Ennis and face a determined Clare in a final (we tossed for home advantage) and we came through. Then the GAA turned around and gave two fingers to Limerick and Wexford/Offaly (not sure who came 7th in div 1 that year) and created the 6 team division 1. Clare won Div 2 the year after on merit beating us twice. It was quite funny that we were in Division 2 for three years and only lost 3 games yet are still there.

It was fairly inevitable it was going to happen though once Cork went down and not Clare. I was shouting for Clare in the relegation match that time for this very reason.

Fireball07

As a Limerick fan, I'm actually against the change.


I mean I was annoyed before, when they fcuked us over after we should have been promoted, but the 6-team format is probably for the best...it makes for a hugely competitive top tier, and a 2nd tier that has some strong teams in it.

Possibly not enough games, but if they went to home and away, that wouldn't fit in the calendar either.


Back to 8 teams in the top tier, and it's obviously better for someone like Limerick but it's worse for teams like Offaly/Wexford in the short term...if they don't get promoted, the quality of team they are playing has dropped again.

sid waddell

Bottom line is that anybody outside of Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny doesn't matter.

Mal-Adjusted

This might be a silly question, but why Cork and Limerick? (apart from the obvious) As at the moment there isn't a league table to draw from, what's the excuse for putting those two at the top of the pile?

feargale

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

really? that's pretty bad. was that the Wexford debacle of a few years ago or something else?

Hard to believe now, but Kildare had a handy hurling team in the 70s, Pat Dunny etc.. They won promotion to Division One, and the league was re-gigged to keep them down.

Fireball07

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

This might be a silly question, but why Cork and Limerick? (apart from the obvious) As at the moment there isn't a league table to draw from, what's the excuse for putting those two at the top of the pile?

Last year's Division 2 league finalists and the relegated team?

Mal-Adjusted

Fireball07 wrote: »

Last year's Division 2 league finalists and the relegated team?

i suppose, I still don't agree that a relegated team from a seperate division should be placed in a table above a bunch of teams they haven't played against though...but i'd have loved if Carlow or someone had been the beaten finalists instead of Limerick. See the gymnastics the GAA would go through to get Limerick in ahead of them

Fireball07

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i suppose, I still don't agree that a relegated team from a seperate division should be placed in a table above a bunch of teams they haven't played against though...but i'd have loved if Carlow or someone had been the beaten finalists instead of Limerick. See the gymnastics the GAA would go through to get Limerick in ahead of them

It would have been ahead of Dublin though, we topped the league phase :P


Although Carlow nearly beat us...

feargale

In a nutshell the league format is changed too often. Worse still, at the risk of boring you, it is done in midstream. Would any other sporting body do this? If the format must be changed, don't do it to engineer a particular result. Announce that it will be done next year, setting out the details before the contest begins so that every county has a fair and equal chance to jump the bar.
I would have 8 teams in each division, home and away, with fair promotion and relegation of one or two depending on the gap in standards. Too many? Not if two rounds were played in October as used to happen. If it aint broke don't fix it - they did just that, getting rid of pre-Christmas games, and decimated attendances.
I would agree with a boycott of the league if the skulduggery succeeds,

hans aus dtschl

Surprised by how many think Cork are the primary motivation behind this.
Cork are the power behind it, but not necessarily the primary motivation. Limerick footballers get seeded, Limerick hurlers come up. Cork Rúnaí does the work.

As a Cork person, Div 1B may not have been a disastrous situation for us in 2014. 1A hurt KK this year, and both Davy and JBM have claimed the full-flight relegation play-off came at an awkward time in their Championship preparation. Dublin and Limerick could harldy be described as "behind the pace" in the championship. Winners of 1B can still win the league outright and we all know the league is primarily used as a tool to blood new players, with the only serious tests coming from relegation matches and finals.

So yeah, I wouldn't be too hasty in thinking "Cork wanted the 1A matches so they got it done" and that "small fishies are ignored and the whole world is out to get Davy Fitz". There's some feeling in Cork that Limerick wanted the 1A matches and it suited the Cork Rúnaí to make it happen.

Also just to add, I though the 2013 league 1A was one of the best in a while. If something works, why change it...

brilliantboy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Surprised by how many think Cork are the primary motivation behind this.
Cork are the power behind it, but not necessarily the primary motivation. Limerick footballers get seeded, Limerick hurlers come up. Cork Rúnaí does the work.

As a Cork person, Div 1B may not have been a disastrous situation for us in 2014. 1A hurt KK this year, and both Davy and JBM have claimed the full-flight relegation play-off came at an awkward time in their Championship preparation. Dublin and Limerick could harldy be described as "behind the pace" in the championship. Winners of 1B can still win the league outright and we all know the league is primarily used as a tool to blood new players, with the only serious tests coming from relegation matches and finals.

So yeah, I wouldn't be too hasty in thinking "Cork wanted the 1A matches so they got it done" and that "small fishies are ignored and the whole world is out to get Davy Fitz". There's some feeling in Cork that Limerick wanted the 1A matches and it suited the Cork Rúnaí to make it happen.

Also just to add, I though the 2013 league 1A was one of the best in a while. If something works, why change it...

In that case Cork won't mind stepping aside and allowing Wexford up in their stead

hans aus dtschl

brilliantboy wrote: »

In that case Cork won't mind stepping aside and allowing Wexford up in their stead

Or leaving the league as it is...

On what basis would you move Wexford up? At least Limerick could have a claim to moving, what with finishing top of the league and losing out by a point...I'd as soon move Offaly up as Wexford...

I don't think the revised league with 8 teams in 1A is the correct way to go. But neither do I think that 1A with Wexford in it makes any sense. And I don't think red-tinted glasses are my main motivation in saying that, rather recent form.

bruschi

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Or leaving the league as it is...

On what basis would you move Wexford up? At least Limerick could have a claim to moving, what with finishing top of the league and losing out by a point...I'd as soon move Offaly up as Wexford...

Wexford stayed up in 2011 by drawing with Tipp on the final day of the season. Then the powers that be decided to make it a 6 team league and shafted Wexford and Limerick who had won promotion. So Wexford were not relegated on the field of play or by the rules of the competition. But yet are now in the second tier.

hans aus dtschl

bruschi wrote: »

Wexford stayed up in 2011 by drawing with Tipp on the final day of the season. Then the powers that be decided to make it a 6 team league and shafted Wexford and Limerick who had won promotion. So Wexford were not relegated on the field of play or by the rules of the competition. But yet are now in the second tier.

OK, but now we're talking about fixing last year's problems, rather than next year's potential problems?

How far do you want to go back, to make it fair on everyone? And was this year's league structure at 1A and 1B not up to scratch?

I'm not saying "nobody was ever shafted", I'm just saying that the idea of promoting Wexford into 1A because of 2 years ago's results makes even less sense than the proposed league changes currently on the table.

keeponhurling

Limerick, Clare, Dublin, Wexford spend time in Div 2/1B - no worries, format works well with competitive games.
Cork relegated - We need a re-structure.
Will they please stop messing around with the league format!

Interesting as well they didn't want to seed the Munster football after last year's Cork v Clare final.
However they want to sdeed it after this year's Kerry v Cork final.
I hope they do go through with the boycott, maybe even Clare & Limerick can apply for the Connacht football championship

hans aus dtschl

keeponhurling wrote: »

Interesting as well they didn't want to seed the Munster football after last year's Cork v Clare final.

I think Cork wanted it seeded all along tbh. Why do you reckon there's an about-turn after this year's Munster final in particular?

PS the "boycott" you're talking about only seems to exist on Boards.

keeponhurling

Sorry, "threatened boycott" as per RTE.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2013/1002/477952-four-munster-counties-threaten-2015-boycott/

"As a form of immediate protest against this decision, and respecting the views of our squad members, the four squads have asked their counties to withdraw from the 2014 McGrath Cup. Also we will be asking our players to consider not making themselves available for the 2014 Railway Cup football series. In recent years players from the four counties have helped backbone the Munster Railway Cup side.

"All four squads are also united in saying that if the seeding arrangement isn't reversed next year through the formal channels that the current panellists will not participate in the 2015 Munster championship."

keeponhurling

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I think Cork wanted it seeded all along tbh. Why do you reckon there's an about-turn after this year's Munster final in particular?

.

Because if they seeded Clare & Cork, it could still put Cork & Kerry together in the first round or semi final.
Hence two different teams would be seeded the following year.

They only want Cork and Kerry seeded.

hans aus dtschl

My apologies, I assumed you meant the hurling teams in the lower divisions, who were apparently talking of a boycott. Yeah I can see why the football lads would be talking about a boycott - particularly Limerick football.

hans aus dtschl

keeponhurling wrote: »

Because if they seeded Clare & Cork, it could still put Cork & Kerry together in the first round or semi final.
Hence two different teams would be seeded the following year.

They only want Cork and Kerry seeded.

AAAAh I'm with you now. As in the seeded teams are the ones from the Munster final, and that's why they chose to do it this year. That makes sense. Yeah to be honest we all know the only two teams that want to see Munster football seeded are Cork and Kerry. It makes much more sense for them, from a revenue perspective.

Completely shafts the others.

thinkstoomuch1

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Surprised by how many think Cork are the primary motivation behind this.
Cork are the power behind it, but not necessarily the primary motivation. Limerick footballers get seeded, Limerick hurlers come up. Cork Rúnaí does the work.

As a Cork person, Div 1B may not have been a disastrous situation for us in 2014. 1A hurt KK this year, and both Davy and JBM have claimed the full-flight relegation play-off came at an awkward time in their Championship preparation. Dublin and Limerick could harldy be described as "behind the pace" in the championship. Winners of 1B can still win the league outright and we all know the league is primarily used as a tool to blood new players, with the only serious tests coming from relegation matches and finals.

So yeah, I wouldn't be too hasty in thinking "Cork wanted the 1A matches so they got it done" and that "small fishies are ignored and the whole world is out to get Davy Fitz". There's some feeling in Cork that Limerick wanted the 1A matches and it suited the Cork Rúnaí to make it happen.

Also just to add, I though the 2013 league 1A was one of the best in a while. If something works, why change it...

ITS crystal clear, The Runai in cork wanted Div 1 mainly because he knows damn well,their will be poor attendences at the div two matches,barely get 1500 ,outside of the limk game.


They need gate recipts .Hurling revenue has always been way more than football for cork.

Its nothing to do with welfare cork,the hurling team,still had to raise money for its hoilday fund.

Any money is for the Pairc.
They will talk the talk,but they will loose revenue in div two.

keeponhurling

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

ITS crystal clear, The Runai in cork wanted Div 1 mainly because he knows damn well,their will be poor attendences at the div two matches,barely get 1500 ,outside of the limk game.


They need gate recipts .Hurling revenue has always been way more than football for cork.

Its nothing to do with welfare cork,the hurling team,still had to raise money for its hoilday fund.

Any money is for the Pairc.
They will talk the talk,but they will loose revenue in div two.

Presumably they knew this when they were fighting a relegantion play-off this year?
Relegation = Bad,
that was the general vibe I got off a lot of teams.

hans aus dtschl

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

ITS crystal clear, The Runai in cork wanted Div 1 mainly because he knows damn well,their will be poor attendences at the div two matches,barely get 1500 ,outside of the limk game.


They need gate recipts .Hurling revenue has always been way more than football for cork.

Its nothing to do with welfare cork,the hurling team,still had to raise money for its hoilday fund.

Any money is for the Pairc.
They will talk the talk,but they will loose revenue in div two.

And Limerick agreed to the football seeding because.........oh wait...

I'm happy to agree that the revenue is an issue, as long as you're happy to agree that revenue from the league is absolutely tiny.

hans aus dtschl

keeponhurling wrote: »

Presumably they knew this when they were fighting a relegantion play-off this year?
Relegation = Bad,
that was the general vibe I got off a lot of teams.

I think both Cork and Clare took the relegation playoff seriously, for what it's worth.

thinkstoomuch1

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

And Limerick agreed to the football seeding because.........oh wait...

I'm happy to agree that the revenue is an issue, as long as you're happy to agree that revenue from the league is absolutely tiny.

Ididnt mention the seeding of the football.


Revenue ,no matter what it is is vital to the cork board,and will be bigger than div two.


Cork didnt knw that when they played div play off.I have no doubt jbm and players after tgt they play div two.


The board didnt nd react immediately after.

They do what they also do,let the storm blow over,let others make noise and then add clout when its needed.


If cork board,cared so much cork we would already have the minor and u21 teams place ,and money invested in it.

Dont be fooled,that their doing it for hurling or limerick.

They know it will hit them in the pockets.

keeponhurling

Munster final 2013 Cork v Kerry 36,370 Fitzgerald Stadium
Munster semi final 2012 Cork v Kerry 23,184 Páirc Uí­ Chaoimh

Munster semi final 2013 Cork v Clare 3,774 Cusack Park
Munster final 2012 Cork v Clare 9,139 Gaelic Grounds

So based on these figures, a Cork-Kerry final could get an extra 13,000 spectators if it is a final rather than semi-final.
Whereas Cork-Clare final only gets an extra 6,000 spectators if it is a final rather than semi-final.

hans aus dtschl

keeponhurling wrote: »

Munster final 2013 Cork v Kerry 36,370 Fitzgerald Stadium
Munster semi final 2012 Cork v Kerry 23,184 Páirc Uí­ Chaoimh

Munster semi final 2013 Cork v Clare 3,774 Cusack Park
Munster final 2012 Cork v Clare 9,139 Gaelic Grounds

So based on these figures, a Cork-Kerry final could get an extra 13,000 spectators if it is a final rather than semi-final.
Whereas Cork-Clare final only gets an extra 6,000 spectators if it is a final rather than semi-final.

I think we're all on the same page on this one, keeponhurling, I think we all know Cork and Kerry are pushing for the seeding of the football and nobody else.

brilliantboy

keeponhurling wrote: »

Munster final 2013 Cork v Kerry 36,370 Fitzgerald Stadium
Munster semi final 2012 Cork v Kerry 23,184 Páirc Uí­ Chaoimh

Munster semi final 2013 Cork v Clare 3,774 Cusack Park
Munster final 2012 Cork v Clare 9,139 Gaelic Grounds

So based on these figures, a Cork-Kerry final could get an extra 13,000 spectators if it is a final rather than semi-final.
Whereas Cork-Clare final only gets an extra 6,000 spectators if it is a final rather than semi-final.

Well Jesus, why not just get rid of the other teams altogether and have Cork vs Kerry every game?

hans aus dtschl

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Ididnt mention the seeding of the football.


Revenue ,no matter what it is is vital to the cork board,and will be bigger than div two.


Cork didnt knw that when they played div play off.I have no doubt jbm and players after tgt they play div two.


The board didnt nd react immediately after.

They do what they also do,let the storm blow over,let others make noise and then add clout when its needed.


If cork board,cared so much cork we would already have the minor and u21 teams place ,and money invested in it.

Dont be fooled,that their doing it for hurling or limerick.

They know it will hit them in the pockets.

I'm not fully with you here. You seem to be implying that Cork hurling ignored the relegation playoff this year and I disagree with that.

And you seem to be implying that Cork don't want to be in division 1B for revenue reasons, which I disagree with. I (and others) believe that Cork and Limerick don't want to be in division 1B for hurling reasons, and Frank's making that happen, getting the football seeding in return.

hans aus dtschl

brilliantboy wrote: »

Well Jesus, why not just get rid of the other teams altogether and have Cork vs Kerry every game?

And it's even more complex than those figures make out.

If Cork and Kerry are drawn against each other first round, one of the two won't go to the next round, losing revenue. If you put this match at 50-50, one of the sides has a 50% chance of earning very little revenue from Munster.

Cork and Kerry would traditionally have a higher % chance of beating the others. By seeding the football, both have increased their chances of getting revenue, by having a greater-than-evens chance of having at least two matches.

By comparison, the opposite works for, say, Limerick. Unseeded, if Limerick are 50-50 with Tipp, and Cork 50-50 with Kerry, Limerick have a 50% shot of a Munster final (and the ensuing revenue from a second game). Seeded, Limerick have a (traditionally) less than 50% chance of making a Munster final, as well as losing the second-game revenue.

So yes, it suits Cork and kerry only, pretty much. So you now must ask the important question - why would Limerick agree?

eigrod

As well documented, none of the top 4 in Div 1A last year made the AI semi finals (KK, Galway, Tipp Waterford). It's fair to say, therefore, that the league in that format did not prepare them adequately for Championship. Hence, they cannot have been overly enthused about the 6 team format either.

hans aus dtschl

eigrod wrote: »

As well documented, none of the top 4 in Div 1A last year made the AI semi finals (KK, Galway, Tipp Waterford). It's fair to say, therefore, that the league in that format did not prepare them adequately for Championship. Hence, they cannot have been overly enthused about the 6 team format either.

I think 1A was actually too competitive, in some respects; as mentioned, Davy and JBM have both mentioned that the relegation playoff interfered with their Championship training.

bruschi

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I think 1A was actually too competitive, in some respects; as mentioned, Davy and JBM have both mentioned that the relegation playoff interfered with their Championship training.

so how would having 2 extra games, and potentially another relegation playoff for the second last team make that better?

There is a huge financial implication on this too, dont kid yourselves that the difference in revenue between the top tier and second one is much the same.

thinkstoomuch1

bruschi wrote: »

so how would having 2 extra games, and potentially another relegation playoff for the second last team make that better?

There is a huge financial implication on this too, dont kid yourselves that the difference in revenue between the top tier and second one is much the same.

I totally agree that the financial difference is huge.


Thats the main reason cork are worried.Its nothing to do with how it will halt progress.

thinkstoomuch1

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'm not fully with you here. You seem to be implying that Cork hurling ignored the relegation playoff this year and I disagree with that.

And you seem to be implying that Cork don't want to be in division 1B for revenue reasons, which I disagree with. I (and others) believe that Cork and Limerick don't want to be in division 1B for hurling reasons, and Frank's making that happen, getting the football seeding in return.

The fans and jbm dnt want or the players to be in div two ,as it will hinder progress.i dnt doubt that.

But,its naive to say the board are doing this purely for that,and money is not a factor,and board have cork hurling as a no 1 focus in staying div 1.


Can we honesty believe that,in to october no minor and u21 team in place,when every other county has theirs in place,and a few have been at a few harty cup games,i believe,and their respective county games etc.

Tipp had to find new managers at minor and 21 a few backs ago.Within a wk,they had.

The harty cup has started,the minor county final is over in cork,the u21 final in a few wks,yet were still waiting.


If cork hurling is such a priority why three months down the line are we waiting for such appointees.?


I didnt say cork ignored the play off.Please have the courtsey,not to put words in my mouth.

Cork wanted to win that,and jbm treated that game in the build up seriously.

My point is now that we were beaten,the board didnt say a word.They waited,let limerick make the noise,they add the clout.


They decided they would join with limerick now and get the rule changed,as lets be crystal clear,no one would go to the carlow,antrim,laois games etc ,or wexford or offaly in comparison to the elite teams.

To suggest that fianance has no implication to cork in div 2,, with respect is naive to say the least.

A lot of cork fans dont want to be in div 1 by default.

Pride and honur on the field of play,and of the field too.

Wheres the honour in nt staying up in div 1 ,but by default now up their next year,when if this was any other county it wouldnt be changed.

Limestone1

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

And you seem to be implying that Cork don't want to be in division 1B for revenue reasons, which I disagree with. I (and others) believe that Cork and Limerick don't want to be in division 1B for hurling reasons, and Frank's making that happen, getting the football seeding in return.

er ....in return ?? Frank is getting Cork into Div 1 in hurling as well as the football seeding. The guy is a master politician , we should elect him to run the country ...........

thinkstoomuch1

Limestone1 wrote: »

er ....in return ?? Frank is getting Cork into Div 1 in hurling as well as the football seeding. The guy is a master politician , we should elect him to run the country ...........

He wouldnt want the job,the president only get a max 14 year term,and the taoiseach doesn't last that long.

The cork job has to be the best in ireland,have it as long as you want.

hans aus dtschl

thinkstoomuch1, you're actually on exactly the same page as me, though you may not realise it. I was only making the original point that people thought this league change was a Cork-only phenomenon. I've no doubt Cork are the power behind it, but Limerick are the front.

Limestone1, yep it's unreal. To get the football seeded, "in return" for the league change is some going.

Mal-Adjusted

between this and the debacle in Club Rugby, I'm actually hating how sport has become the new politics

premierstone

Limestone1 wrote: »

er ....in return ?? Frank is getting Cork into Div 1 in hurling as well as the football seeding. The guy is a master politician , we should elect him to run the country ...........

Frank didn't get where he is today on good looks alone! In a way whether you love him or hate him, and I'm sure the vast majority are in the latter camp, you have to fcukin admire the guy, obviously a very very shrewd and intelligent man with a neck like a jockey'd boll!x and he invariably gets he's way.

deisedude

Cork have some fcuking gall complaining about finances. They have completely fcuked over the remaining Division 1B teams chance of generating any decent bit of revenue.

People complain about Tipp and Kilkenny but it is always Cork that pull these stunts and then their fans complain that the rest of us hate them. Every other county would take relegation with a bit of class

ollie the Saint

typical i bet if waterford went down, this rule wouldnt have come in, id say the gaa were hoping for a clare win because how crappy would it look if cork were all ireland champs and plying 1b hurling in league ......god forbid.