Dog's mysterious itch saga

aonb

My elderly dog has a mysterious itch on his back.
He has been to several vets with it, down through the years, none of whom could find a cause/solution for it.
He has had skin scrapings taken, and sent for analysis - no definitive cause.
We HATE watching him try to scratch it (he cant get at the itch with his teeth/nails luckily??!) - he uses low tree branches/coffee tables to rub against to scratch it.
Its not driving him mad, but now and then it flares up.
One of the vets we saw about it said to use CORTOPIN 1% which seems to relieve it a bit.
I have put him on a sensitive skin/tummy dry food (rice based), which is mixed with meat.
Have tried cutting out various things in his diet, no effect.

Anyway, after much research, found a product called "Bionic Biotic" from Pooch & Mutt (a probiotic supplement) which claims to relieve dogs itchy skin. Ive been using this for years, a spoon in his food every day, and it seems to keep it under control. Unfortunately I phoned this morning to order some packs from a lady who supplied it in Co Kildare, and she is no longer supplying it :eek:

I will contact the UK supplier to get some more, but has anyone got any suggestions for an alternative? I bought a bar of a product for skin treatment - like soap from Donedeal (can I say this?) but hes 15, he HATES being washed, so that/washing is not an option. There is no redness/spots/scabs/whatever on his skin. The area that is itchy looks fine (at the moment, but when it was really bad some years ago, he was loosing hair on the region) but the minute you touch/scratch it, he goes into doggy-bliss/ecstasy. Anyone come across a similar problem, I would love to find a natural product (he could do without chemicals at his age) that would help but anything that will relieve it would be great. Im worried now that Ive run out of his Bionic Biotic that it will flare up and start driving him (and us!) mad, so getting a bit worried here

Nody

Could it simply be an allergy? What food(s) have you been feeding him? Do they contain corn, wheat, beat root, animal derivates?

Have you tried him on a pure raw diet?

aonb

Thanks Nody, I have tried eliminating all sorts from his diet down through the years, with no effect. At the moment and for a long time now, he is on a rice/fish (sensitive skin/tummy) diet - dry food moistened, mixed with half cooked meat.

I dont want to try the raw diet - am pretty squeemish about handling raw meat/offal

Nody

aonb wrote: »

Thanks Nody, I have tried eliminating all sorts from his diet down through the years, with no effect. At the moment and for a long time now, he is on a rice/fish (sensitive skin/tummy) diet - dry food moistened, mixed with half cooked meat.

I dont want to try the raw diet - am pretty squeemish about handling raw meat/offal

Well you could simply go with chicken, boiled rice and veggies for a week or two (to see if it's food related) with out going full in on offal, hearts etc. The reason I ask (and I'm far from a dog expert) is that if you read the raw feed thread there are repeated by many dog owners over and over again how it helped cure their dogs.

The reason (as far as I've been able to find out) it has helped so many dogs is simply that there are several parts of highly allergenic components being put in "normal" dog food (talking most things outside the top line Acana, Call of the Wild and the likes) which can cause issues over time. By going raw (tanned sardines, boiled rice, boiled veggies, raw chicken with legs etc. for the easier stuff) you cut out all that stuff and you'll get a chance to see if it's food related or not (and if it is you can then look at getting a top of the line dry feeder or buy pre packed raw stuff).

juniord

try a drop of salmon oil on his food if you want to give something natural, MOST skin issues can be put down to an unsuitable diet IMO,

tk123

aonb wrote: »

I have put him on a sensitive skin/tummy dry food (rice based), which is mixed with meat.
Have tried cutting out various things in his diet, no effect.

Have you tried cutting out rice/cereals - eg switch to a grain free food like a fish and potato variety? I wouldn't mix meat in tbh - you need as few ingrediants as possible and then once the dog is ok then start adding things in week by week. I had to put my dog on an exclusion diet and it turned out it was rice in the food he was on at the time.

ILoveToast

I had a dog with issues like this.
In the end it turned out to be hay fever.
But he only had it during the summer months(April-September), so he got antihistamine to treat it.
But unless it's a seasonal issue for your dog, it might clearly not be for the same reason he gets itchy
Either way I hope it gets sorted!

maggiepip

You could also try extra virgin cold pressed coconut oil. Its great for things like itchy skin and their health in general. Give about a teaspoon per 10kg bodyweight in hisfood or directly off a spoon. You could also rub some externally onto the itchy area - its great stuff. Below is some good info on it:http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

My own dogs get it daily.

jimf

ILoveToast wrote: »

I had a dog with issues like this.
In the end it turned out to be hay fever.
But he only had it during the summer months(April-September), so he got antihistamine to treat it.
But unless it's a seasonal issue for your dog, it might clearly not be for the same reason he gets itchy
Either way I hope it gets sorted!

had 1 just like this years ago

puppieperson

hi had a dog who was scratching and tried everything - potions feedstuff all avenues. Eventually a vet thought it might be related to her anal glands,sure enough it was i had them regularly emptied and the hot spot she had been scratching stopped. worth a try might be part of the solution.

ILoveToast

jimf wrote: »

had 1 just like this years ago

It's funny as the vets never managed to find out what the issue was. They did every possible test available. So I eventually suggested it to my vet and was prescribed antihistamines, and it worked straight away.

Philip82

You never mentioned what type of dog it is and how old it is?
Where does the dog stay inside??? Heat (Central heating and fires) can drive a dogs skin absolutely mad in some
dogs, while others are fine. A nice cool (not freezing) envoirnment is best for your dog, maybe you have tried this
but try leaving the dog out of very warm rooms if you can, this may help.

yellowlabrador

With my old labrador, the itching was caused by allergies. He was allergic to flea bites and would develop weeping excema. Another trigger was certain cleaning products. One in particular was detol floor cleaner.
He was on a raw food diet with an occasional supplement of doggy nuts.

snoman

www.vetuk.co.uk

This website was posted on another thread..... they have Bionic Biotic for about £8stg.

aonb

thanks to you all for the excellent advise so far. (Snoman, thanks for that website - will check it out asap) out of curiosity, has anyone tried Pooch & Mutt Bionic Biotic? Ive been using it for years, seems to keep my dog under control itch-wise, ingredients looks good, but its pretty £££

*The dog is a Jack Russell terrier - 15 years old, and is in GREAT shape for his age.
*Our house is pretty cool, with a stove at night, so dont think its heat in this case, but a very good point.
*I had him on anti-histamines at one stage - no success. But yes, hay fever type symptoms in that this itch flares up now and then, and it could be seasonal now you mention it.
*Hes such a clever/bright/happy/great little dog (and Im biased of course!), the itch isnt really a huge issue, but since my supplier of Bionic Biotic is finished, I thought Id bring it up here.
*I have him on fish/rice diet thinking that was pretty allergic free, but TK123 you suggested a grain-free food - what brand would you suggest?
*Will look at the coconut oil - thank you. Saw some solid coconut oil in a jar in the supermarket - is this the same thing?
*This little chap is very spoiled and quite fussy about his food, so the fish/rice one I have him on (mixed with meat) he is very happy with.
*Lastly, Im thinking about moving him in his old age to a meat-only diet. I think I said earlier that I cant handle raw meat, so is ok to buy mince and chicken at the supermarket and cook that?
Finally - sorry for all the questions - does anyone have any experience of Nolans Butchers in Kilcullen - they produce a dog food - in a long red plastic wrapped pressed 'sausage'. Ive asked them and they say its ONLY meat, cooked on their premises, with a tiny bit of rusk. Ive been mixing this with the rice/fish kibble for my dogs, they love it! Was thinking about putting the elderly dog on this only?

ABajaninCork

ILoveToast wrote: »

I had a dog with issues like this.
In the end it turned out to be hay fever.
But he only had it during the summer months(April-September), so he got antihistamine to treat it.
But unless it's a seasonal issue for your dog, it might clearly not be for the same reason he gets itchy
Either way I hope it gets sorted!

Yeah, mine has doggy hay fever too! . With the recent dry weather, it seems to have flared up again. Terrible staining on his lovely white beard and paws. So am hard at work with the camomile tea to remove it.

I do have Prendisolone to treat him if it gets really bad, but prefer not to use the nuclear option if I can help it!

aonb

Many thanks for all of your replies/suggestions.

Since this is a pretty elderly dog (15), who basically lives to eat (at his age there isnt much else is there?!?), I dont want to break his little heart, so Im going to try to change his diet, removing all grains, to see if this helps with the itch. Started on potatoes with meat, moistened with milk yesterday - is this a satisfactory dog meal?

He is used to getting a dog biscuit at bed time (and sometimes when he thinks hes going to die of hunger so starts 'roaring' at me, and up on his hind legs begging pitifully) Is there a dog biscuit/snack that doesnt contain grains that any of you recommend?

Maggipip, could you just tell me if the jar of SOLID coconut oil that I saw in the supermarket might be the same as the coconut oil you recommend/use?

mymo

Bake your own biscuits, I have seen recipes for biscuits using rice flour, I baked doggie biscuits with cheese and herbs couple of years back, dogs loved them.
You can buy rice flour in tesco and Dunnes.
Also sweet potato chews, get a large sweet potato or two, cut into slices length ways, about 1cm thick, put on trays and bake on 120-30 until dried out but still bendy (2.5-3hrs)my dogs go nuts for them.

DBB

aonb wrote: »

Started on potatoes with meat, moistened with milk yesterday - is this a satisfactory dog meal?

Meat is obviously great, spuds great in small quantities, but milk is a big no-no for dogs. They are lactose intolerant, and take it from a lactose-intolerant human, this causes a lot of abdominal discomfort. If you're hell-bent on a dairy product to moisten the spuds, natural yoghurt is great... there's almost no lactose in it, and lots of beneficial beasties.

He is used to getting a dog biscuit at bed time (and sometimes when he thinks hes going to die of hunger so starts 'roaring' at me, and up on his hind legs begging pitifully) Is there a dog biscuit/snack that doesnt contain grains that any of you recommend?

You just can't beat dried meat products for gut-friendly dog snacks! Dried tripe, cow's ears, puffed jerky... and there is a seriously impressive array of dry meat snacks on www.zooplus.ie.
Or, if he likes them, carrots, apples, or I like Mymo's suggestion of roasted sweet potato. Nyom!

maggiepip

aonb wrote: »

Many thanks for all of your replies/suggestions.

Since this is a pretty elderly dog (15), who basically lives to eat (at his age there isnt much else is there?!?), I dont want to break his little heart, so Im going to try to change his diet, removing all grains, to see if this helps with the itch. Started on potatoes with meat, moistened with milk yesterday - is this a satisfactory dog meal?

He is used to getting a dog biscuit at bed time (and sometimes when he thinks hes going to die of hunger so starts 'roaring' at me, and up on his hind legs begging pitifully) Is there a dog biscuit/snack that doesnt contain grains that any of you recommend?

Maggipip, could you just tell me if the jar of SOLID coconut oil that I saw in the supermarket might be the same as the coconut oil you recommend/use?

Hi sorry just getting back to you now! Once it says virgin or extra virgin cold pressed coconut oil its the right one, yes its in a solid form. Supervalue sell "Cocowel" extra virgin cold pressed and thats the right type, they also sell a cheaper one but its not as good as its more refined and not virgin or cold pressed. The less refined the better. Any health shop will also sell it but the "Cocowell" one in supervalue is much better value @ 5.99 for 500mls

A good heaped teaspoon would be a good amount for a jack russel type - in the food or just straight - and as I suggested also try softening it in your hands and rubbing it externally on the actual itch.:)

aonb

didnt know dogs were lactose insolvent :eek: - he doesnt like milk (one of my younger dogs loves it) but I thought calcium etc - so just moisten the potato with warm water?? always have natural yogurt, so will put some on too. Thanks!

Saw cocowel in Supervalu - will get some on monday. Thank you too

My dog would laugh in your face if you gave him carrots or apples as treats!!
Will check out meat snacks on zooplus.ie