Woman refused entry to low floor bus with buggy

highdef

Leaving Tesco in Inchicore a few minutes ago, there was a lady (prob in her 60's) with a child in a buggy outside the bus talking to the bus driver. I couldn't hear the full conversation but quickly concluded that the bus driver was not letting her on to the bus because she had a buggy. I went to approach so that I could assist but as I walked over, I heard the bus driver say to her "Sorry, I can't". He then shut the doors and drove off.

I asked the lady why she wasn't allowed to board. She said that the driver insisted that she would have to fold up the buggy in order to board. The bus was clearly marked as being wheelchair accessible (as I believe all Dublin buses are nowadays anyway; please correct me if I am wrong) so I can't see any reason why the front of the bus could not be dropped to allow easy access. The lady was the grandmother of the child and she said she had no idea how to fold the buggy up.

I asked her if the driver gave a reason for his decision not to allow her to board and she told me that he had just said that she had to fold the buggy up to board. He did not mention anything about there being a fault with the bus that would result in the lowering function being non-functional, according to the lady. So I am assuming there was no fault with the bus.

Is this normal practice? I can't imagine a wheelchair user accepting this behaviour. I walked up the road for a few minutes with the lady and she was visibly out of breath trying to catch up her lost time in order to meet a grandson from a school about a kilometre away.

The bus was a number 13 heading outbound on Tyrconnell Road and it left the bus stop at Tesco at 14:05.

Ben D Bus

Maybe there was already a wheelchair or buggy occupying the reserved space?

LXFlyer

Presumably there was already someone on board the bus with a buggy or a wheelchair.

Only 1 buggy/wheelchair is allowed - any others need to fold up.

Valetta

If there was already an unfolded buggy on the bus then the driver was correct.

Any further buggys must be stowed as there is only roon for one.

mtjm

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Maybe there was already a wheelchair or buggy occupying the reserved space?

I agree with others only reason why it won't allow it as there maybe something else in it's place? OP can you confirm if there was something else in that spot?

Bus driver was not doing it to be a prick. I have seen it before on a couple of occasions. The space was already in use, and having the buggy on unfolded would be a hazard. As you said , he said she would have to fold it up.

ProudDUB

If the space for buggies/wheelchairs was already occupied and she was allowed get on with an unfolded buggy, where could she sit or stand where the buggy would not block the aisle way, or access to the stairs? Driver was being correct imo, if that space was already occupied.

highdef

Ahhhhhh. That makes perfect sense. I didn't actually notice if the wheelchair space was taken up already (should have done that!!!!) so I think in this instance, it would be best to assume that it was. Just also to note, when I heard the bus driver talking, he was not being in any way rude or anything like that. Had I heard the rest of the conversation, I probably would have heard him saying that the reserved space was already taken up.

Thanks all.

Sponge Bob

highdef wrote: »

I think in this instance, it would be best to assume that it was.

And so the real lesson is to always get a lesson on folding the buggy up and down before you accept a buggy and child package for the day.

schemingbohemia

No I think the real lesson is to actually not comment unless you've heard or seen the full story.

justsomebloke

schemingbohemia wrote: »

No I think the real lesson is to actually not comment unless you've heard or seen the full story.

Why? the OP has learnt something that he wouldn't of know about unless he had commented on the situation

AlekSmart

justsomebloke wrote: »

Why? the OP has learnt something that he wouldn't of know about unless he had commented on the situation

All well and good if we accept that term "commented".

The tenor of the OP is,to my reading,veering more towards another opportunity to have a pop at the Busdriver.

General comment is one thing,however highdef leaves us in no doubt that is far more than a generalized comment...

Is this normal practice? I can't imagine a wheelchair user accepting this behaviour. I walked up the road for a few minutes with the lady and she was visibly out of breath trying to catch up her lost time in order to meet a grandson from a school about a kilometre away.

The bus was a number 13 heading outbound on Tyrconnell Road and it left the bus stop at Tesco at 14:05.

This is very much an individualized issue,where but for the responses on here,highdef may well have fired off an indignant complaint regarding this specific Busdriver and his appaling treatment of an elderly lady etc etc...

Over the years I have both witnessed,and had first hand experience of similar situations,which usually feature the Indignant individual,hearing or seeing what they want to,rather than accepting the reality that things are not always what they appear to be,when viewed from afar.

Full credit to highdef for admitting this at the outset,as some posters here have made far more serious allegations based upon far less evidence...

I couldn't hear the full conversation but quickly concluded that the bus driver was not letting her on to the bus because she had a buggy. I went to approach so that I could assist but as I walked over, I heard the bus driver say to her "Sorry, I can't". He then shut the doors and drove off.

Highdef also asks...

Is this normal practice? I can't imagine a wheelchair user accepting this behaviour.

The answer is Yes,it is not only normal practice once the "Space" is taken by an occupied Buggy/Wheelchair,but a Wheelchair-bound Disabled Person has no alternative but to accept "this behaviour" (more evidence of a pre-existing conclusion ?),as the most recent interpretation of the Equal Status Act 2000,ensures that the dedicated space is available only on a First Come-First Served basis,with Wheelchair users being required to accept that they do not actually enjoy priority of use.

It is a hugely unsatisfactory situation for the Wheelchair bound and Busdrivers alike,but will require a specific rewriting of the relevant Disabled Access sections of the ESA in order to provide a Legal Means to enforce a Disabled Persons access to the Disabled Space.

Before anybody chimes in with observations on the essential goodness of the human spirit,I have been in situations where a Buggy Pushing able-bodied person refused to fold and thus I had to refuse a Wheelchair user....This scenario happens,and on a somewhat more regular basis than some might like to think.

murphaph

AlekSmart wrote: »

Before anybody chimes in with observations on the essential goodness of the human spirit,I have been in situations where a Buggy Pushing able-bodied person refused to fold and thus I had to refuse a Wheelchair user....This scenario happens,and on a somewhat more regular basis than some might like to think.

Unreal just how inconsiderate some people can be. Sad stuff really.

Dravokivich

murphaph wrote: »

Unreal just how inconsiderate some people can be. Sad stuff really.

Happens a lot. Alek wouldnt be alone there. My da sees the same crap at least twice a month himself as well.

Kumsheen

ProudDUB wrote: »

If the space for buggies/wheelchairs was already occupied and she was allowed get on with an unfolded buggy, where could she sit or stand where the buggy would not block the aisle way, or access to the stairs? Driver was being correct imo, if that space was already occupied.

Is the space provided not just supposed to be kept free for wheelchairs? I wouldn't have thought an unfolded pram or buggy should be allowed to block that space?

AlekSmart

Kumsheen wrote: »

Is the space provided not just supposed to be kept free for wheelchairs? I wouldn't have thought an unfolded pram or buggy should be allowed to block that space?

No Kumsheen it's not.

The Space meets the requirements of the ESA 2000,in that it can accomodate a Wheelchair bound person (Note that it is Wheelchair specific,and does NOT include "Scooter Type" mobility aids).

The company,having provided the required wheelchair specific space,the means of access to it (ramp),and the trained Driver has therefore met its legal obligations.

The Company (Driver) has no Legal Right to reserve or otherwise interfere with a person with an occupied buggy who has prior possession of the space.

An unfolded/unoccupied buggy is a different case,and a Driver can demand that it be folded and stowed.

This can also be problematic,if a person removes a child from the buggy en-route,and leaves the empty buggy in the space.

The Driver may be totally oblivious to the altered situation and requests subsequent Buggy users to fold and stow,a request not always well recieved...cue a selection of barbed pleasanteries when Buggy Pusher No.2 gets down and notices that Buggy No.1 is EMPTY !!!!

The entire Low-Floor "thing" has brought a new and unwelcome set of behavioural issues to the fore on Public Transport,many of which are totally unappreciated by the Public itself....;)

Conway635

This issue is by no means confined to Dublin either.

I posted here a few months ago a report on TFL (Transport for London) trying to introduce clarity on the issue, and stating that they are experiencing a significant number of buggy/wheelchair conflicts.

Unfortunately I cannot now recall which thread here I posted it in, or where the link to the original article is.

C635

lucernarian

As someone who has neither had to push children around in a buggy nor has travelled with wheelchair users on Dublin Bus, I can't really comment on the appropriateness of the rules here. It seems most posters feel that the wheelchair users should get priority access to the space.

I'm not so clear on the reasons why though? Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious or if my common sense has left me but if there is a baby and food etc to be carried (and especially if it's a "twin" buggy), why should that person lose out to a wheelchair user on the use of that space? I can see many situations where it simply wouldn't be possible for a parent to fold up the buggy and carry the child through some other means.

corktina

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

As someone who has neither had to push children around in a buggy nor has travelled with wheelchair users on Dublin Bus, I can't really comment on the appropriateness of the rules here. It seems most posters feel that the wheelchair users should get priority access to the space.

I'm not so clear on the reasons why though? Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious or if my common sense has left me but if there is a baby and food etc to be carried (and especially if it's a "twin" buggy), why should that person lose out to a wheelchair user on the use of that space? I can see many situations where it simply wouldn't be possible for a parent to fold up the buggy and carry the child through some other means.

why? because generally, wheelchair-bound passengers can't hop out and fold it up. To them, that space is essential, to buggy-pushers, it's conveniant.

the groutch

AlekSmart wrote: »

Before anybody chimes in with observations on the essential goodness of the human spirit,I have been in situations where a Buggy Pushing able-bodied person refused to fold and thus I had to refuse a Wheelchair user....This scenario happens,and on a somewhat more regular basis than some might like to think.

yeah, I've seen before a woman with a buggy getting on at the same stop as a man in a wheelchair, and literally barging her way through everyone to make sure she got on ahead of the wheelchair user, scummiest of the lowest scum.

lucernarian

corktina wrote: »

why? because generally, wheelchair-bound passengers can't hop out and fold it up. To them, that space is essential, to buggy-pushers, it's conveniant.

Nor can babies fold up their prams. I can also imagine many situations where the parents simply wouldn't be able to transport a child except within a pram. I'm not sure why that distinction is being made, on the face of it. Is your point mainly about buggies and older toddlers and the likes? I thought it might be more to do with wheelchair-bound passengers having difficulties in travelling by car or hailing taxis, while parents with babies have more options in this regard.

LXFlyer

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Nor can babies fold up their prams. I can also imagine many situations where the parents simply wouldn't be able to transport a child except within a pram. I'm not sure why that distinction is being made, on the face of it. Is your point mainly about buggies and older toddlers and the likes? I thought it might be more to do with wheelchair-bound passengers having difficulties in travelling by car or hailing taxis, while parents with babies have more options in this regard.

Bizarrely enough until low floor buses arrived in 2000, parents had to fold up their prams/buggies to board a bus.

Why now should that suddenly become an issue?

lucernarian

lxflyer wrote: »

Bizarrely enough until low floor buses arrived in 2000, parents had to fold up their prams/buggies to board a bus.

Why now should that suddenly become an issue?

I could also say "what did wheelchair users do before AVs were introduced" but that wouldn't be much of a response. You're missing the point here, I am specifically talking about parents with very young babies in prams, not just the concept of folding a buggy to allow wheelchair users on board. In reality, I don't think every parent could hold the child and keep all the remaining belongings and pram stored away at the luggage rack and also try to look after the baby as the crying kicks off upon being taken out of the pram.

Conway635

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I could also say "what did wheelchair users do before AVs were introduced" but that wouldn't be much of a response. You're missing the point here, I am specifically talking about parents with very young babies in prams, not just the concept of folding a buggy to allow wheelchair users on board. In reality, I don't think every parent could hold the child and keep all the remaining belongings and pram stored away at the luggage rack and also try to look after the baby as the crying kicks off upon being taken out of the pram.

I think the point is that prior to lowfloor buses parents had the choice of managing to use buses with folded buggy, or choosing other transport, whereas the buses were wholly inaccessible to wheelchair users.

Lowfloor accessible buses were introduced to end that inequality of access for wheelchair users.

As a side benefit, this also allowed buggies to board unfolded, and made it easier for elderly and infirm walking people to enter, but the reason for the change was to end a lack of accessibility for people who *had no other choice*.

The parent can choose to have their baby in a buggy, in a pram, in a pouch, or whatever, but the wheelchair user has no such choice, and thus should have the highest priority claim on the space.

(Disclosure: I am neither a parent nor a wheelchair user myself).

C635

lucernarian

Seems to make sense, particularly if parents have alternatives for babies of all ages, like pouches. Though I could sympathise with a parent who has a <6 month old baby and pram and has to take the bus for whatever reason. It's not like most prams can be folded or babies can be easily carried around instead of kept in the pram. I'm presuming this is easier than it is for the poor wheelchair user.

corktina

buggies nowadays are overly massive. Back in "my day" our McClaren could be folded and lifted with one hand whilst holding baby in the other.

It's simply not on for anyone to think they can override a disabled person because they choose to have a Rolls-Royce buggy which is awkward (or near impossible)to fold. If you want to travel by bus, go suitably equipped, ie folded buggy and pouch.

lucernarian

corktina wrote: »

buggies nowadays are overly massive. Back in "my day" our McClaren could be folded and lifted with one hand whilst holding baby in the other.

It's simply not on for anyone to think they can override a disabled person because they choose to have a Rolls-Royce buggy which is awkward (or near impossible)to fold. If you want to travel by bus, go suitably equipped, ie folded buggy and pouch.

The prams I'm thinking of wouldn't exactly count as rolls royce models. Certainly not the old-fashioned types akin to what some of the Moore St. sellers now purvey fruit out of :P I'd like to see one of those folded!

schemingbohemia

There's a difference between a pram and a buggy. Very few parents would have prams, most would have buggies, a significant portion would have travel units (or some name similar to that) that can also be used as car seats.

I would think for the vast majority of parents with buggies, it's a bit of a hassle folding the buggy, but that still doesn't trump the needs of the wheelchair user for any right thinking person. Then again, there is a significant cohort of people who aren't right thinking.

Mental Mickey

I have been in this situation before myself. I was waiting to board a bus(I'm a wheelchair user), to head into town. Bus driver lowered the ramp to allow me gain access. However, there was a woman with 2 children on board - one was in a buggy. Bus driver asked said woman to fold buggy as there was a wheelchair user waiting to board. The woman refused point blank to do as requested, so the driver had no option but to request that she got off the bus.

corktina

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I have been in this situation before myself. I was waiting to board a bus(I'm a wheelchair user), to head into town. Bus driver lowered the ramp to allow me gain access. However, there was a woman with 2 children on board - one was in a buggy. Bus driver asked said woman to fold buggy as there was a wheelchair user waiting to board. The woman refused point blank to do as requested, so the driver had no option but to request that she got off the bus.

did she get off?

lucernarian

schemingbohemia wrote: »

There's a difference between a pram and a buggy. Very few parents would have prams, most would have buggies, a significant portion would have travel units (or some name similar to that) that can also be used as car seats.

I would think for the vast majority of parents with buggies, it's a bit of a hassle folding the buggy, but that still doesn't trump the needs of the wheelchair user for any right thinking person. Then again, there is a significant cohort of people who aren't right thinking.

What about those who have prams? I accept that they can use alternative carriers or pouches but nonetheless a pram is probably a vital piece of equipment for parents with newborns and I would hope some accommodation could be made for them. I'm not talking about the "vast majority" here. Even if such pram users are not regularly encountered, should they also be kicked off the bus if a wheelchair user needs to use it? I don't have any strong feelings on this I should add.

Conway635

Here is the article on how the problem has arisen (and is being handled) on London buses by TFL.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/buggies-on-buses-must-move-for-wheelchairs-8339677.html

At least they are informing passengers of what the position is - we could do with being a bit more proactive in Dublin.

C635

corktina

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What about those who have prams? I accept that they can use alternative carriers or pouches but nonetheless a pram is probably a vital piece of equipment for parents with newborns and I would hope some accommodation could be made for them. I'm not talking about the "vast majority" here. Even if such pram users are not regularly encountered, should they also be kicked off the bus if a wheelchair user needs to use it? I don't have any strong feelings on this I should add.

they should equip themselves properly with a folding carrier and a pouch

lucernarian

corktina wrote: »

they should equip themselves properly with a folding carrier and a pouch

Don't you think that some kind of priority carriage could be allowed for those users, especially in the case of those carrying two babies (like twins)?

corktina

aa bus to themselves you mean?

lucernarian

corktina wrote: »

aa bus to themselves you mean?

Mental Mickey

corktina wrote: »

did she get off?

She did yeah, sorry!!!

K.Flyer

Saw a woman getting onto a bus with a large buggy at Santry Ave the other day. But the bus driver was letting her on without a problem, which was strange, because it was loaded high with flat packs from the nearby IKEA!!

AlekSmart

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I have been in this situation before myself. I was waiting to board a bus(I'm a wheelchair user), to head into town. Bus driver lowered the ramp to allow me gain access. However, there was a woman with 2 children on board - one was in a buggy. Bus driver asked said woman to fold buggy as there was a wheelchair user waiting to board. The woman refused point blank to do as requested, so the driver had no option but to request that she got off the bus.

The reality,Mental Mickey,is that the Busdriver was incorrect in requesting that Lady to leave the bus.

The Busdriver has no legal authority,in this case,to make that request,which could well have proved a costly one should the lady have decided to pursue the matter further.

In this case it is YOU,Mental Mickey who should have been advised to wait for another bus.

The standing instructions to Busdrivers,in this situation are Crystal Clear.

The Driver must be heard to request that the buggy be folded and stowed to allow the Wheelchair user access...However,should the person decline to fold and stow the buggy,the Driver cannot take any further action.

In these cases the Busdriver must contact Central Control,advising the controller of the situation and location to allow the controller ascertain the location of other buses and make whatever adjustments are necessary to address the issue.

As Conway 635 points out,it is not a very intelligent interpretation of any Disabled Priority policy,as in many ways it actively discriminates against the disabled it purports to facilitate.

However,it is a matter of poor drafting and interpretation of legislation,rather than any Company Policy or otherwise.

murphaph

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What about those who have prams? I accept that they can use alternative carriers or pouches but nonetheless a pram is probably a vital piece of equipment for parents with newborns and I would hope some accommodation could be made for them. I'm not talking about the "vast majority" here. Even if such pram users are not regularly encountered, should they also be kicked off the bus if a wheelchair user needs to use it? I don't have any strong feelings on this I should add.

We have a newborn and his pram folds down. Not like a buggy but enough to free up a wheelchair space. It would never cross our minds to allow our pram to disenfranchise a disabled person like that.

Having said that, I think Dublin buses are extraordinarily poorly designed from a usability perspective. Berlin buses have space for a wheelchair and 3 unfolded buggies. The middle doors also line up with this space and buggy users and wheelchair passengers board and alight through the middle doors.

This goes for both articulated and double decker units here in Berlin.

HydeRoad

I think passengers should be given full entitlement to bring one unfolded buggy on board the bus.

And charged a flat €5 fare for the privelege.

Mental Mickey

murphaph wrote: »

We have a newborn and his pram folds down. Not like a buggy but enough to free up a wheelchair space. It would never cross our minds to allow our pram to disenfranchise a disabled person like that.

Having said that, I think Dublin buses are extraordinarily poorly designed from a usability perspective. Berlin buses have space for a wheelchair and 3 unfolded buggies. The middle doors also line up with this space and buggy users and wheelchair passengers board and alight through the middle doors.

This goes for both articulated and double decker units here in Berlin.

I think this is the same with some of the London buses too

Uriel.

how difficult would it be for DB (or any other similar company) to introduce a bye law/regulation/term of use stating that the wheelchair space is designed for wheelchair users as a priority. Pram/Buggy users can make use of that space as long as not required by a wheelchair user. Then should a wheelchair user come to need the space the owner of the pram/buggy has a choice - fold the pram and clear the space or get off the bus.

Stick a sign on the bus to that effect and there you go. A clear legal situation and IMO the correct priority being given to the wheelchair user.

lucernarian

murphaph wrote: »

We have a newborn and his pram folds down. Not like a buggy but enough to free up a wheelchair space. It would never cross our minds to allow our pram to disenfranchise a disabled person like that.

Having said that, I think Dublin buses are extraordinarily poorly designed from a usability perspective. Berlin buses have space for a wheelchair and 3 unfolded buggies. The middle doors also line up with this space and buggy users and wheelchair passengers board and alight through the middle doors.

This goes for both articulated and double decker units here in Berlin.

If you had two newborns, would you feel the same way? I think I agree with the broad principle here, that the wheelchair user has priority but clearly some situations involving parents and prams are far more difficult to accommodate for than others. If this priority is to be set in stone legally in the future (with by-laws or with Oireachtas legislation), I feel it should accomodate every usage scenario.

Of course, buses specced with greater floor area kept for wheelchairs AND babies under 6 months old would be an ideal outcome but there's no signs of that happening for a long time.

Can anyone see a time when Dublin Bus would be obliged to get much more accessible buses of the kind that have been linked to in this thread? They seem to be very reluctant to deal with new suppliers and seem to settle on conservative solutions for the sake of continuity. This is advantageous for maintenance but not so if the most familiar bus with the most interchangeable parts also happens to be more unreliable.

cdebru

If only things in Ireland were that simple, equality authority I believe says NO, a person with a buggy has a mobility impairment and is entitled to the space on a first come first served basis. The driver can ask the person to fold it and allow the wheelchair user to travel, that is all.

Not up to DB or any other company, its the law in this country that is the problem.

Uriel. wrote: »

how difficult would it be for DB (or any other similar company) to introduce a bye law/regulation/term of use stating that the wheelchair space is designed for wheelchair users as a priority. Pram/Buggy users can make use of that space as long as not required by a wheelchair user. Then should a wheelchair user come to need the space the owner of the pram/buggy has a choice - fold the pram and clear the space or get off the bus.

Stick a sign on the bus to that effect and there you go. A clear legal situation and IMO the correct priority being given to the wheelchair user.

cdebru

Different country different law, this country apparently views people pushing a buggy as equally disabled as a wheelchair user, so you cant discriminate against people with buggies in favour of anyone else including wheelchair users.

Conway635 wrote: »

Here is the article on how the problem has arisen (and is being handled) on London buses by TFL.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/buggies-on-buses-must-move-for-wheelchairs-8339677.html

At least they are informing passengers of what the position is - we could do with being a bit more proactive in Dublin.

C635

Conway635

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Can anyone see a time when Dublin Bus would be obliged to get much more accessible buses of the kind that have been linked to in this thread? They seem to be very reluctant to deal with new suppliers and seem to settle on conservative solutions for the sake of continuity. This is advantageous for maintenance but not so if the most familiar bus with the most interchangeable parts also happens to be more unreliable.

Actually, their choice of suppliers is not really the issue, as any body-design from all of the manufacturers can be customised in any way the company wants - hence the Airlink subtype, with lots of racking etc.

If they wanted to have extra buggy spaces, they can, but in their mind it is a question of loss of seating capacity.

There were some early lowfloor designs (in London) which had room for multiple buggys/wheelchairs, but which only had 11 seats downstairs!

DB have trialled a "double" space on a few of their latest buses, this seems to be the norm in London also now on new buses.

C635

foggy_lad

cdebru wrote: »

If only things in Ireland were that simple, equality authority I believe says NO, a person with a buggy has a mobility impairment and is entitled to the space on a first come first served basis. The driver can ask the person to fold it and allow the wheelchair user to travel, that is all.

Not up to DB or any other company, its the law in this country that is the problem.

Nobody is saying that the person with a buggy has any impairment but only that they be treated equally just as wheelchair users must be treated equally as much as is practicable.

hoodwinked

Correct me if im wrong but i think bus eireann buses (in cork anyway) have a blue sign on those seats saying "please give up this seat if an elderly or disabled person needs it"

i was always under the impression it was fine to use it with a buggy but if a wheelchair user came on board i'd have to move or fold it


but then they also had space for 2 or 3 buggies to be unfolded and not blocking anything.

Uriel.

cdebru wrote: »

If only things in Ireland were that simple, equality authority I believe says NO, a person with a buggy has a mobility impairment and is entitled to the space on a first come first served basis. The driver can ask the person to fold it and allow the wheelchair user to travel, that is all.

Not up to DB or any other company, its the law in this country that is the problem.

It shouldn't really be the case though I would have thought, as the suggestion is not that buggy users can't use the space, but that priority use goes to wheelchair users.

Like for example in Statute the State has priority in terms of debt - i.e. the state gets its money before any other creditor. That's been held in the courts as fine (Constitutional), but it might not necessarily = equality.

lucernarian

Conway635 wrote: »

Actually, their choice of suppliers is not really the issue, as any body-design from all of the manufacturers can be customised in any way the company wants - hence the Airlink subtype, with lots of racking etc.

If they wanted to have extra buggy spaces, they can, but in their mind it is a question of loss of seating capacity.

There were some early lowfloor designs (in London) which had room for multiple buggys/wheelchairs, but which only had 11 seats downstairs!

DB have trialled a "double" space on a few of their latest buses, this seems to be the norm in London also now on new buses.

C635

The Airlink subtype is not a major departure from the prevailing interior and bodywork seen as per most VGs and AVs. The buses I've used throughout Europe (perhaps less so in the UK) are a big departure from Dublin Bus coaches, with triple doors and a more extensive use of single-decked buses etc. I would expect that the pretty-much continuous use of Alexander and Wright over the past 20 years had a bearing on this?

Could there be a return to articulated buses of a more reliable type than the ones which used to operate on the 4s and 10s a few years ago?