Paleo? For or against?

El_Dangeroso

spiralbound wrote: »

Yes, it was statistically significant, but they had a very small sample size, in one country, of people who had been vegan since the 70s (I'm sure there is more information on vegan nutrition available now than there was then). This is not enough evidence to say 'Vegans die younger than vegetarians' - the vegans in this study had a higher mortality risk than the vegetarians.

The sample size was big enough to determine the difference was not at random.

As I said it needs more data, but I personally wouldn't risk my health in the meantime waiting for it.

BTW there is a plausible mechanism of why that would be the case, even mild B12 deficiency elevates homocysteine which is a potent predictor of mortality.

If I were vegan I would supplement B12, algal DHA, zinc and maybe taurine and carnitine if I were prone to depressive episodes.

spiralbound

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

The sample size was big enough to determine the difference was not at random.

As I said it needs more data, but I personally wouldn't risk my health in the meantime waiting for it.

BTW there is a plausible mechanism of why that would be the case, even mild B12 deficiency elevates homocysteine which is a potent predictor of mortality.

If I were vegan I would supplement B12, algal DHA, zinc and maybe taurine and carnitine if I were prone to depressive episodes.

Yep, they could also have been deficient in vitamin D. I am vegan (as you may have surmised!) and supplement with B12 (in a multivitamin which also has zinc), D, calcium and algal DHA, as is currently recommended.

Anyway, that's probably enough derailing of the paleo thread.

wolfpawnat

My partner is paleo with dairy added accidentally. He never even heard of paleo, he just altered his diet to be healthy and then all this info on paleo came out and he just so happened to be eating it anyway. It is easy to shop for him and it just so happens it has made the house a lot healthier in general as all I do is add grains for me and my son to the same dinner as my partner is having.

Katgurl

Heaven Clean Surf wrote: »

I was paelo for over a year. It defiantly works well for weight loss. But as others have said energy levels for me were pretty low. I did find however that my training and weight loss plateaued on this diet. On research I found others that found the same.

Its also extremely expensive diet, and just as vulnerable to portion size as any diet.

Weight loss on a pealo diet has a lot to do with water retention. Carbohydrates suck a lot of water into cells as a transport mechanism, I find I can gain and loose 3kg in a 24hour period on a high carb day.

Anyway I dont think its a way of life really, its a diet. Short to medium term.

Interesting. So how is your current diet different? And what are the changes now to results (weight, fitness, financial)?

--Kaiser--

Heaven Clean Surf wrote: »

Anyway I dont think its a way of life really, its a diet.

Funny, I see it the exact opposite. And what you eat every day is a diet as well

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Katgurl wrote: »

Interesting. So how is your current diet different? And what are the changes now to results (weight, fitness, financial)?

I still eat a lot of protein and it make up the majority of my macros, however I eat some rice, some bread, some cheese, some dairy and normal food. I try to eat like a normal person when I am out, but limit carbs during the week. Have a takeaway if I feel like it, and some alcohol.

I train a lot better with carbs onboard, I sleep better, think better and recover faster, hell I even do cardio (nail me to a cross). My weight is around the same, although as I said it varies 2-3kg from day to day. My BF is down a good bit, I look less deflated and more solid. More importantly for me I feel strong and fit rather than looking and feeling tired

My theory is that as you reduce BF and increase muscle mass, you need more energy to sustain the muscle. If you stay at the same calories and add muscle you actually slipping in deficiency more and more. Your energy will suffer. Adding some carbs makes up for that. A well known body builder in Ireland once told me not to be carbaphobic, eat loads of carbs just earn them.

Paleo is an extreme diet ( I know diet refers to anything you consume, but in this context I mean restrictive diet). Like so many things, without moderation it is not sustainable, unless you the type that like posting pictures of steak, broccoli and 6 cashews on Facebook with the tag "YUM YUM", and kipping your chins.

At the end of the day, I was always a big meat eater, portion control is more important for me. If you body was not meant to eat it, you would not have the capacity to digest it. I am not saying that crisps an rounds of toast are good for you but moderation is.

El_Dangeroso

This is not aimed at you fitzgeme in particular, but I hate hate hate the term moderation. It's a word that can be used to justify anything 'All things in moderation, including crack, heroin and transfats!'. /rant

I do think that low carb has co-opted paleo in a big way so they have practically become synonymous. I got into paleo initially 'cos I was low carb, ironically paleo got me eating carbs again via fruit and potato.

I wouldn't call paleo restrictive with regards to variety of foods, most people eat 3-4 things as their staple, wheat, potato, chicken and vegetable oil comprise most of the irish diet. Paleo made me consider eating way more variety of foods, for example nose to tail eating.

But it is restrictive in terms of finding stuff to eat outside of your own home then absolutely. Also tasty things that can be cooked quickly, basically a LOT of planning is required.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Indeed, low carb and paelo are not the same, but most people associate paelo with low carb, your point is well taken.

Moderation, always less than you think.

j@utis

Heaven Clean Surf wrote: »

Its also extremely expensive diet, and just as vulnerable to portion size as any diet.
<...>
Anyway I dont think its a way of life really, its a diet. Short to medium term.

Extremely expensive? really? What were you buying? eggs, meat and veg? I don't find it expensive at all and it's very quick and easy to shop for. When I go shopping for groceries on my own and by "paleo" foods I spend x-amount of money. When me and my partner go together (he's not paleo) we spend at least 20eur more and we don't get more food that could make us dinner. he basically fills the trolley with treats like ice-cream, rice cakes, granola bars, humus, fancy sliced prepacked hams (50g/pack), juices, smoothies, yogurts etc and eats these in between the main meals = waste of money and ever expanding waistline.

I would strongly disagree with you on the second point. Paleo is more of a lifestyle that concentrates on health benefits in the long term rather than quick weight loss like most of the diets do. Weight loss is only secondary but always welcome "side effect" of this diet.

El_Dangeroso

Heaven Clean Surf wrote: »

Moderation, always less than you think.

Ha! I want this on a bumper sticker

--Kaiser--

If you think of it as a restrictive diet then it is. I don't count macros and I don't stick slavishly to the diet. I do, however, eschew grains, legumes, vegetable oils and pre-packaged food for the most part. I also probably spend less on food than I ever did; vegetables are pretty cheap and I always ate lots of meat (plus you'll eat less takeaways and snack food)