Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

C0N0R wrote: »

Re liquid contracts does anyone care to share the breakdown of how they achieved their price? Ie base of 25 liquid bonus of 7cpl and whatever else to get to their price?? I'm happy to share when my December arrives!! From what I know our liquid is base manufacturing plus bonus and solids don't make a difference, is this the case everywhere??

Some sort of working band, the price varies with manufacturing but it's cushioned from the full hit of world markets. But there is also something about input costs, then top up in the winter. 2bh it's complicated and messy as fook with glanbia and I can't really be bothered to try understand it fully ha.

Milked out

C0N0R wrote: »

Re liquid contracts does anyone care to share the breakdown of how they achieved their price? Ie base of 25 liquid bonus of 7cpl and whatever else to get to their price?? I'm happy to share when my December arrives!! From what I know our liquid is base manufacturing plus bonus and solids don't make a difference, is this the case everywhere??

In dairygold you get base price as normal with solids adjustment and a bonus of 5.6c/l on top of that price then for your winter milk quota Nov to Feb inclusive. Normal milk quality standards bar lactose must be above 4.5. That's the winter milk scheme.

Cow Porter

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm officially finished with autumn calving from now on. Was talking to a neighbour who always had a similar sized milkquota to me last night, he got 37cent for his milk, and knocked out double the volume for Dec. I'm utterly wasting my time trying to compete with that ha.

Would breeding be much different? If you don't feed it you won't have it either

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm officially finished with autumn calving from now on. Was talking to a neighbour who always had a similar sized milkquota to me last night, he got 37cent for his milk, and knocked out double the volume for Dec. I'm utterly wasting my time trying to compete with that ha.

Have you started serving for autumn 2016 yet?

WheatenBriar

Timmaay wrote: »

Some sort of working band, the price varies with manufacturing but it's cushioned from the full hit of world markets. But there is also something about input costs, then top up in the winter. 2bh it's complicated and messy as fook with glanbia and I can't really be bothered to try understand it fully ha.

You've got to remember a few things
Just as paper never refuses ink,a blowing mouth never refuses blowing (about good results and stays quiet on bad ones)
Unless you saw the statement, I wouldn't believe the neighbor from adam tbh
Also remember a lot of lads wont tell you the truth on their costs versus yours either
You could be a lot better than them cash wise even if you haven't a whole lot

Timmaay

Cow Porter wrote: »

Would breeding be much different? If you don't feed it you won't have it either

Slightly better breeding by them for solids (less HO), feeding wise very little in it, slightly earlier 1st cut silage, but didn't test fantastic, however by fluke their 2nd cut is excellent ha. No maize/diet feeder etc either, on paper we both should even out in terms of solids.

Timmaay

WheatenBriar wrote: »

You've got to remember a few things
Just as paper never refuses ink,a blowing mouth never refuses blowing (about good results and stays quiet on bad ones)
Unless you saw the statement, I wouldn't believe the neighbor from adam tbh
Also remember a lot of lads wont tell you the truth on their costs versus yours either
You could be a lot better than them cash wise even if you haven't a whole lot

Ah I know these well enough, if anything they are the opposite, would rather not be blowing about their milk price. But anyways, the point still stands, 30c/litre that I got for the Dec milk makes autumn calving an utter waste of time.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

Have you started serving for autumn 2016 yet?

Served 2 young carryover cows to keep my dad happy ha. Got about 12 spring empties to cull, 2 of them are very good milkers, I could possibly carry them over the full year (they'll probably do 12kl over the 2yr lactation), but risk is they will be mud fat come calving in 2017. All this autumn's calvers getting pushed around to the spring, most are big mature HOs so will have no bother doing the 18 months. None of this will help my CI tho haha.

frazzledhome

Timmaay wrote: »

Ah I know these well enough, if anything they are the opposite, would rather not be blowing about their milk price. But anyways, the point still stands, 30c/litre that I got for the Dec milk makes autumn calving an utter waste of time.

Woa, there now. It's to do with your base price.

What you need to do it calculate what your bonus actually is in total. You then decide how many cows you need to calve if any.

The problem is that too many people are calving too many cows and too early. This is leading to more milk being produced without bonus.

Now think about this and all the giving out about milk price. Regardless of the coop or scheme supplying every litre un bonused is a cheaper litre for them and s loss making litre for you

C0N0R

Milked out wrote: »

In dairygold you get base price as normal with solids adjustment and a bonus of 5.6c/l on top of that price then for your winter milk quota Nov to Feb inclusive. Normal milk quality standards bar lactose must be above 4.5. That's the winter milk scheme.

We get base plus
October - March 7.26
September & April 3.34
May - August 2.22

Solids don't matter so I suppose in high solids months we lost out and low solids we gain. But our solids would be atrocious usually! Again normal milk quality standards.

Milked out

C0N0R wrote: »

We get base plus
October - March 7.26
September & April 3.34
May - August 2.22

Solids don't matter so I suppose in high solids months we lost out and low solids we gain. But our solids would be atrocious usually! Again normal milk quality standards.

Our milk in Nov and Feb would be going into Danone with rest of manufacturing milk. When they are closed and dg plants are winding down it is sent to arrabawn or glanbia at least it was other years. Danone only take 2 day collection milk direct currently on 4 day collection was never on that before but never had storage either till this year. Tbc 6 scc 169 last collection.

Timmaay

frazzledhome wrote: »

Woa, there now. It's to do with your base price.

What you need to do it calculate what your bonus actually is in total. You then decide how many cows you need to calve if any.

The problem is that too many people are calving too many cows and too early. This is leading to more milk being produced without bonus.

Now think about this and all the giving out about milk price. Regardless of the coop or scheme supplying every litre un bonused is a cheaper litre for them and s loss making litre for you

Hmmm, so your surplus bonus is a fixed total amount (or well shifts slightly with your Base?), and it's not a fixed amount assigned to each month like I had assumed? I've just worked out we got just over 3k euros of a bonus in total this year, 2800 of that over Oct and Nov. Last winter it was 2770 in total, spread mostly over oct/Nov/Dec. Ya learn something new every day ha!

frazzledhome

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmmm, so your surplus bonus is a fixed total amount (or well shifts slightly with your Base?), and it's not a fixed amount assigned to each month like I had assumed? I've just worked out we got just over 3k euros of a bonus in total this year, 2800 of that over Oct and Nov. Last winter it was 2770 in total, spread mostly over oct/Nov/Dec. Ya learn something new every day ha!

How about the summer production? How many litres per day are you contracted to supply?

I'm assuming you're in liquid milk as opposed to Winter (Baileys)

Farmer Ed

Arrabawn December milk payment in the bank today. Looks like they have held the base price at 26c for 3.6f and 3.3p. Plus a 2c bonus on top of that for anyone supplying over 9000l in the winter months. This is just for regular suppliers who do not have a liquid contract. Also Arrabawn have not as many penalties as other Co Ops.

To put that into perspective. A regular run of the mill supplier with no contract signed would have got paid 360 euro more for his 9000l of december milk, if he were supplying Arrabawn rather than supplying Glanbia. The difference could even be greater if he were to supply Boherbue or west cork. Looks like maybe size does matter, but not in the way we are let to believe.

A lot of Arrabawn milk was going into liquid to supply Aldi over the last while.They are definitely not processing any DG milk this year. I think DG well and truly burnt that bridge when they tried stealing their suppliers last spring. I can't see them kissing and making up anytime soon. A bit of healthy competition is good IMO.

Timmaay

frazzledhome wrote: »

How about the summer production? How many litres per day are you contracted to supply?

I'm assuming you're in liquid milk as opposed to Winter (Baileys)

361litres/day. If I sell the liquid quota to go compact spring (or to put it more correctly, if I'm forced to sell my liquid quota because I'll be under supplying it in dec/Jan moving forward), I assume I can keep the 3k of a winter surplus bonus?

Brown Podzol

Timmaay wrote: »

361litres/day. If I sell the liquid quota to go compact spring (or to put it more correctly, if I'm forced to sell my liquid quota because I'll be under supplying it in dec/Jan moving forward), I assume I can keep the 3k of a winter surplus bonus?

You'd supply that much with 25-30 late Feb March and April calvers if you started calving Mid Jan. Include a few emptys that you dry off when calving starts, they could be almost ready for the factory then.

Milked out

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Arrabawn December milk payment in the bank today. Looks like they have held the base price at 26c for 3.6f and 3.3p. Plus a 2c bonus on top of that for anyone supplying over 9000l in the winter months. This is just for regular suppliers who do not have a liquid contract. Also Arrabawn have not as many penalties as other Co Ops.

To put that into perspective. A regular run of the mill supplier with no contract signed would have got paid 360 euro more for his 9000l of december milk, if he were supplying Arrabawn rather than supplying Glanbia. The difference could even be greater if he were to supply Boherbue or west cork. Looks like maybe size does matter, but not in the way we are let to believe.

A lot of Arrabawn milk was going into liquid to supply Aldi over the last while.They are definitely not processing any DG milk this year. I think DG well and truly burnt that bridge when they tried stealing their suppliers last spring. I can't see them kissing and making up anytime soon. A bit of healthy competition is good IMO.

By winter months is that just Dec and Jan?

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

By winter months is that just Dec and Jan?

Dec, Jan and feb. That is just for regular spring suppliers who happen to be sending in a drop at that time of year. The liquid boys get more of course.

trixi2011

Milked out wrote: »

Our milk in Nov and Feb would be going into Danone with rest of manufacturing milk. When they are closed and dg plants are winding down it is sent to arrabawn or glanbia at least it was other years. Danone only take 2 day collection milk direct currently on 4 day collection was never on that before but never had storage either till this year. Tbc 6 scc 169 last collection.

Thats a serious tbc for such a long storage period on farm. Over here its illegal for milk to be collected any more than every second day

mahoney_j

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Arrabawn December milk payment in the bank today. Looks like they have held the base price at 26c for 3.6f and 3.3p. Plus a 2c bonus on top of that for anyone supplying over 9000l in the winter months. This is just for regular suppliers who do not have a liquid contract. Also Arrabawn have not as many penalties as other Co Ops.

To put that into perspective. A regular run of the mill supplier with no contract signed would have got paid 360 euro more for his 9000l of december milk, if he were supplying Arrabawn rather than supplying Glanbia. The difference could even be greater if he were to supply Boherbue or west cork. Looks like maybe size does matter, but not in the way we are let to believe.

A lot of Arrabawn milk was going into liquid to supply Aldi over the last while.They are definitely not processing any DG milk this year. I think DG well and truly burnt that bridge when they tried stealing their suppliers last spring. I can't see them kissing and making up anytime soon. A bit of healthy competition is good IMO.

Just to clarify a few things there
Arrabawn are paying a 2 c too up if u supply 4% of your annual supply each month for December ,janurary and February .this is per month and no need to supply it for all 3 .ill check but I think this also includes liquid suppliers
Arrabawns price of 25.88 cent vat inc plus 0.2 cent top up for sub 200 k scc milk is guaranteed till March cheque is cashed as all this milk is going for liquid supply
I still think we have a working relationship with dairygold to process winter milk for them and we send milk to them in early spring .this has happend for last number of years as it suited both sides .shenanigans of last spring with suppliers may of soured things a bit but business is business .dairygold poached some of our suppliers but we poached more back

Farmer Ed

trixi2011 wrote: »

Thats a serious tbc for such a long storage period on farm. Over here its illegal for milk to be collected any more than every second day

To be honest after pasteurizing it or making into milk powder. Unless it's gone completely sour, I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference to the end product. Especially at this time of year with low temperatures.

Im convinced a lot of penalties are put in place just as a means for processors to get cheap milk.

Milked out

trixi2011 wrote: »

Thats a serious tbc for such a long storage period on farm. Over here its illegal for milk to be collected any more than every second day

I put the tank on deep cool at night to drop it to 2°. It's generally cooled to 3 about 5/10 min after milking. Dry wiping all cows before milking. Have no thd count yet this month

kevthegaff

mahoney_j wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things there
Arrabawn are paying a 2 c too up if u supply 4% of your annual supply each month for December ,janurary and February .this is per month and no need to supply it for all 3 .ill check but I think this also includes liquid suppliers
Arrabawns price of 25.88 cent vat inc plus 0.2 cent top up for sub 200 k scc milk is guaranteed till March cheque is cashed as all this milk is going for liquid supply
I still think we have a working relationship with dairygold to process winter milk for them and we send milk to them in early spring .this has happend for last number of years as it suited both sides .shenanigans of last spring with suppliers may of soured things a bit but business is business .dairygold poached some of our suppliers but we poached more back

Wonder how the suppliers that jumped ship are feeling now? Arrabawn increased output October and November 15 more than any other Co op by a good bit. Have they much more capacity j? Did u sign the msa?

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

Wonder how the suppliers that jumped ship are feeling now? Arrabawn increased output October and November 15 more than any other Co op by a good bit. Have they much more capacity j? Did u sign the msa?

Yep contract signed ,very fair and balanced and lots spare capacity left ,we process milk for others throuout the year and this could be stopped if own suppliers increase

Farmer Ed

mahoney_j wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things there
Arrabawn are paying a 2 c too up if u supply 4% of your annual supply each month for December ,janurary and February .this is per month and no need to supply it for all 3 .ill check but I think this also includes liquid suppliers
Arrabawns price of 25.88 cent vat inc plus 0.2 cent top up for sub 200 k scc milk is guaranteed till March cheque is cashed as all this milk is going for liquid supply
I still think we have a working relationship with dairygold to process winter milk for them and we send milk to them in early spring .this has happend for last number of years as it suited both sides .shenanigans of last spring with suppliers may of soured things a bit but business is business .dairygold poached some of our suppliers but we poached more back

Business is business, but no DG milk went to Nenagh this year.

I was speaking to an Arrabawn manager just last week and his understanding is that at 9000l you qualify for the 2c winter bonus. Guys with liquid contracts qualify for more. Most co ops have a ssc bonus now so if you are correct, comparing like with like the arrabawn price for dec is 28.08 for the correct volume of milk. Unless the manager I spoke to was mistaken, My understanding is that is 9000l for each month.

Also Danone don't take any milk as far as I know. Just demineralized whey and skim milk. They will only use skim and whey produced from grass milk so the dryer is shut down during the winter. What people don't realize is that a big percentage of the ingredients that goes into baby food is not infact dairy based at all. I'm told a lot of the raw ingredients coming in to Macroom, come from holland. They no longer have an exclusive agreement with DG for whey either. Last summer you could have seen a truck from just about any Co Op in Macroom.

I was also told Arrabawn have no problem with peak capacity. They are still processing milk for other Co Ops. They seem to have invested wisely over the past few years and have a very low level of borrowing.

Milked out

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairygold-launches-new-fixed-milk-price-scheme/

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairygold-launches-new-fixed-milk-price-scheme/

Is that the same Tim Healy mentioned in this article? Wasn't he in charge of demolishing mallow back in the day?

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dairygold-revamps-its-management-team-25939065.html

Milked out

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Is that the same Tim Healy mentioned in this article? Wasn't he in charge of demolishing mallow back in the day?

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dairygold-revamps-its-management-team-25939065.html

Dunno, probably, was after doing the leaving back then so wouldn't have been following that.

On the scheme itself given the percentages allowed to take it won't make or break either way, will probably enter some amount for it alright. If one enters 100000L the difference at a base price solids would be €5200 on that 100000L if the base was at 25c for the next 18 months. With higher solids the difference would increase but if the price rose in that time it would decrease.

alps

Milked out wrote: »

Dunno, probably, was after doing the leaving back then so wouldn't have been following that.

On the scheme itself given the percentages allowed to take it won't make or break either way, will probably enter some amount for it alright. If one enters 100000L the difference at a base price solids would be €5200 on that 100000L if the base was at 25c for the next 18 months. With higher solids the difference would increase but if the price rose in that time it would decrease.

This is going to be interesting. Dairygold management and committee have the greatest capacity of all, not to think things through fully. They never proof run decisions to see the full impacts or consequences.

This fixed price scheme on the face of it and if it is thought out fully is probably a no brainer. At a 3c/l difference over base at the moment it would be worth an extra 0.45c/l across all of an individual farmers supply.

Here's the interesting bit. ...

Dairygold suspended collecting the 0.5c/l revolving fund on milk under 27c/l so as part of your milk is at 28c will you start paying the revolving fund on this portion, on all your milk or on none.
If you recommence payment on the 15% of your supply, how does this tie in with the overall requirement of 60 months payments (5 years)..?
One thing I can assure you...ask any committee member what the process will be and the answer you will get will be...

"******* we never thought of that""

Farmer Ed

alps wrote: »

This is going to be interesting. Dairygold management and committee have the greatest capacity of all, not to think things through fully. They never proof run decisions to see the full impacts or consequences.

This fixed price scheme on the face of it and if it is thought out fully is probably a no brainer. At a 3c/l difference over base at the moment it would be worth an extra 0.45c/l across all of an individual farmers supply.

Here's the interesting bit. ...

Dairygold suspended collecting the 0.5c/l revolving fund on milk under 27c/l so as part of your milk is at 28c will you start paying the revolving fund on this portion, on all your milk or on none.
If you recommence payment on the 15% of your supply, how does this tie in with the overall requirement of 60 months payments (5 years)..?
One thing I can assure you...ask any committee member what the process will be and the answer you will get will be...

"******* we never thought of that""

Its unbelievable how they are sending out texts at the moment trying to sell full loads of fertilizer, while other Co Ops are advising their members only to by the bare minimum for the moment as fertilizer prices are predicted to fall. The latest text "Better to be looking at it than for it" . Yea right, and you knowing you had paid way over the odds after the price had fallen!

orm0nd

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Business is business, but no DG milk went to Nenagh this year.

I was speaking to an Arrabawn manager just last week and his understanding is that at 9000l you qualify for the 2c winter bonus. Guys with liquid contracts qualify for more. Most co ops have a ssc bonus now so if you are correct, comparing like with like the arrabawn price for dec is 28.08 for the correct volume of milk. Unless the manager I spoke to was mistaken, My understanding is that is 9000l for each month.
.

there's a box in your milk statement that tells you the minimum supply to qualify for bonus

Milked out

alps wrote: »

This is going to be interesting. Dairygold management and committee have the greatest capacity of all, not to think things through fully. They never proof run decisions to see the full impacts or consequences.

This fixed price scheme on the face of it and if it is thought out fully is probably a no brainer. At a 3c/l difference over base at the moment it would be worth an extra 0.45c/l across all of an individual farmers supply.

Here's the interesting bit. ...

Dairygold suspended collecting the 0.5c/l revolving fund on milk under 27c/l so as part of your milk is at 28c will you start paying the revolving fund on this portion, on all your milk or on none.
If you recommence payment on the 15% of your supply, how does this tie in with the overall requirement of 60 months payments (5 years)..?
One thing I can assure you...ask any committee member what the process will be and the answer you will get will be...

"******* we never thought of that""

Will find out when the info gets sent out.

Milked out

alps wrote: »

This is going to be interesting. Dairygold management and committee have the greatest capacity of all, not to think things through fully. They never proof run decisions to see the full impacts or consequences.

This fixed price scheme on the face of it and if it is thought out fully is probably a no brainer. At a 3c/l difference over base at the moment it would be worth an extra 0.45c/l across all of an individual farmers supply.

Here's the interesting bit. ...

Dairygold suspended collecting the 0.5c/l revolving fund on milk under 27c/l so as part of your milk is at 28c will you start paying the revolving fund on this portion, on all your milk or on none.
If you recommence payment on the 15% of your supply, how does this tie in with the overall requirement of 60 months payments (5 years)..?
One thing I can assure you...ask any committee member what the process will be and the answer you will get will be...

"******* we never thought of that""

Will find out when the info gets sent out.

kowtow

It's difficult to be sure because I'm not a party to any of them but to me these fixed price schemes over small amounts seem to be largely about creating a two tier pricing system and targeting support towards those who sign up to MSA's and the like or are prepared to buy into some overall scheme involving input purchases, in other words to inject themselves further into the P&L statement of the co-op which ultimately exists for the equal benefit of all of its members.

It would be a pity if that kind of carry on was mistaken for true fixed price hedging schemes - where milk is sold and delivered on fixed terms for better or worse and the decision and risk remains wholly that of the farmer who enters the contract.

The test here is not whether or not the farmer who signs up benefits, but whether the farmer who doesn't is disadvantaged in any way at all compared to where he would be if the scheme did not exist - I think there is a grave danger here of co-ops being tempted to use the balance sheet which belongs to everyone to push people in one direction or another commercially and that is not what a co-op is for.

kowtow

[double post]

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

It's difficult to be sure because I'm not a party to any of them but to me these fixed price schemes over small amounts seem to be largely about creating a two tier pricing system and targeting support towards those who sign up to MSA's and the like or are prepared to buy into some overall scheme involving input purchases, in other words to inject themselves further into the P&L statement of the co-op which ultimately exists for the equal benefit of all of its members.

It would be a pity if that kind of carry on was mistaken for true fixed price hedging schemes - where milk is sold and delivered on fixed terms for better or worse and the decision and risk remains wholly that of the farmer who enters the contract.

The test here is not whether or not the farmer who signs up benefits, but whether the farmer who doesn't is disadvantaged in any way at all compared to where he would be if the scheme did not exist - I think there is a grave danger here of co-ops being tempted to use the balance sheet which belongs to everyone to push people in one direction or another commercially and that is not what a co-op is for.

Can you explain exactly what you mean by insert themselves further into the co-ops p&l?

atlantic mist

kowtow wrote: »

It's difficult to be sure because I'm not a party to any of them but to me these fixed price schemes over small amounts seem to be largely about creating a two tier pricing system and targeting support towards those who sign up to MSA's and the like or are prepared to buy into some overall scheme involving input purchases, in other words to inject themselves further into the P&L statement of the co-op which ultimately exists for the equal benefit of all of its members.

you hit the nail on the head there kowtow thats exactly what they are at, well its certainly the case in gii not too well up on the other coops, id make a slight addition to your post and say the processors are also pushing the fixed price schemes to increase the value of the company if they can show the market of the legally enforced supply base it reduces supply risk and increases value of company, they seem to think like that from what ive seen focus not on improved profit/margin but value of company

by buying the inputs i.e meal fertiliser we are helping the income statement of the plc, as the plc owns agri business its reported in the income statement, its not a joint venture like gii which only gets reported in the balance sheet, worth remembering the margin on agri business vrs milk so were paying the higher margin for goods but its ok cause its shared between everyone including external plc shareholders.

in theory those people who buy these inputs need to be looked after a little better to keep the ball rolling, its for plc coffers, coop will see some dividends not a distribution of profits, i should be entering to keep in the rewards club

the fixed price schemes are far from a hedge, its not a volatility tool either, too small % available to make it a hedge, its a supply tool at best

frazzledhome

atlantic mist wrote: »

you hit the nail on the head there kowtow thats exactly what they are at, well its certainly the case in gii not too well up on the other coops, id make a slight addition to your post and say the processors are also pushing the fixed price schemes to increase the value of the company if they can show the market of the legally enforced supply base it reduces supply risk and increases value of company, they seem to think like that from what ive seen focus not on improved profit/margin but value of company

by buying the inputs i.e meal fertiliser we are helping the income statement of the plc, as the plc owns agri business its reported in the income statement, its not a joint venture like gii which only gets reported in the balance sheet, worth remembering the margin on agri business vrs milk so were paying the higher margin for goods but its ok cause its shared between everyone including external plc shareholders.

in theory those people who buy these inputs need to be looked after a little better to keep the ball rolling, its for plc coffers, coop will see some dividends not a distribution of profits, i should be entering to keep in the rewards club

the fixed price schemes are far from a hedge, its not a volatility tool either, too small % available to make it a hedge, its a supply tool at best

At our DG profit monitor meeting and the guy with 75% of his milk fixed wiped out asses on price.

He and the rest of us certainly thought it was a great scheme. Not all DG members are GII suppliers either

kowtow

frazzledhome wrote:

He and the rest of us certainly thought it was a great scheme. Not all DG members are GII suppliers either

frazzledhome wrote:

At our DG profit monitor meeting and the guy with 75% of his milk fixed wiped out asses on price.

Ah yes, but it's quite possible to make good trade with a bad broker.

My point wasn't about the wisdom of having fixed a price - that's a judgement call which your guy can rightfully be pleased with - rather my concern was the basis upon which fixed price opportunities are shared out amongst theoretically equal members of the same cooperative.

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

Ah yes, but it's quite possible to make good trade with a bad broker.

My point wasn't about the wisdom of having fixed a price - that's a judgement call which your guy can rightfully be pleased with - rather my concern was the basis upon which fixed price opportunities are shared out amongst theoretically equal members of the same cooperative.

You are totally correct. At the very heat of Co Op etous should be, that all member should be treated equally. Horace Plunkett would surely be spinning in his grave if he became aware of some of the shenanigans that have been taking place in recent times. The problem is the body charged with policing Co Ops is dominated by the big two and they can hide behind 1893 laws. Effectively they can do pretty much whatever they like and get away with it,

Long gone are the days when the larger Co OPs were owned by farmers. Increasingly new ways are being put in place to insure farmers are owned by these Co Ops.

frazzledhome

kowtow wrote: »

Ah yes, but it's quite possible to make good trade with a bad broker.

My point wasn't about the wisdom of having fixed a price - that's a judgement call which your guy can rightfully be pleased with - rather my concern was the basis upon which fixed price opportunities are shared out amongst theoretically equal members of the same cooperative.

I.e. Are the rest of us taking a lower price to provide the funds for the fixed?

Your point is valid, however it's backed with contracts on the other side

Milked out

frazzledhome wrote: »

At our DG profit monitor meeting and the guy with 75% of his milk fixed wiped out asses on price.

He and the rest of us certainly thought it was a great scheme. Not all DG members are GII suppliers either

In dairygold the max % is 15 of 2015 supply so it's too small an amount to make a massive difference imo. Having the option to fix 75% is a different kettle of fish

frazzledhome

Milked out wrote: »

In dairygold the max % is 15 of 2015 supply so it's too small an amount to make a massive difference imo. Having the option to fix 75% is a different kettle of fish

Not many would have 75%, they'd needed to have taken their allowance in every scheme to date

Timmaay

frazzledhome wrote: »

At our DG profit monitor meeting and the guy with 75% of his milk fixed wiped out asses on price.

He and the rest of us certainly thought it was a great scheme. Not all DG members are GII suppliers either

Hard question to answer here given how farms evolve I know, but how does their price compare in other years? Were they behind much in previous years when the milk price was ahead of the fixed price?

mahoney_j

frazzledhome wrote: »

Not many would have 75%, they'd needed to have taken their allowance in every scheme to date

The wise cute whores !!!!!

Milked out

frazzledhome wrote: »

Not many would have 75%, they'd needed to have taken their allowance in every scheme to date

Do you think that as you need to partake in every scheme to be able to have the option to put in a larger amount in the next scheme that it's an effort to encourage people in and do you think that approach is necessary to maintain contracts on the other side of these schemes? Ideally it would be nice to have an opt in or out of any scheme regardless of historical participation but I guess you have to be realistic as well unless there is a proper futures type market here for it its easier said than done

alps

atlantic mist wrote: »

by buying the inputs i.e meal fertiliser we are helping the income statement of the plc, as the plc owns agri business its reported in the income statement, its not a joint venture like gii which only gets reported in the balance sheet, worth remembering the margin on agri business vrs milk so were paying the higher margin for goods but its ok cause its shared between everyone including external plc st

Mist.....are you sure about this? You're saying that the agri business is owned by the plc!!! And we discussed here a few weeks back about glanbia stating that future fixed price schemes would be linked to feed purchase!!!!
You're saying that the coop will make its members fix their input choices and prices to a plc.....

I'm beginning to disbelieve in the whole industry...We had Boherbue farmers vote to allow farmers to be removed as shareholders if they do not purchase enough inputs through the coop, ....What's going to be next...

Apologies if I've been reading these situations incorrectly, as not involved in either "coop"

atlantic mist

well 51% is the magic number for control in business,
coop owns 60% of gii, coop owns 36% of plc
agribusiness under plc control were shareholders

dont think we need the contracts with orna nua and consumer foods they always went in the pot and averaged out with everyone, need it to be balanced with other products in the mix which we have difficulty selling the ones going into intervention if possible to balance the hedge

Farmer Ed

alps wrote: »

Mist.....are you sure about this? You're saying that the agri business is owned by the plc!!! And we discussed here a few weeks back about glanbia stating that future fixed price schemes would be linked to feed purchase!!!!
You're saying that the coop will make its members fix their input choices and prices to a plc.....

I'm beginning to disbelieve in the whole industry...We had Boherbue farmers vote to allow farmers to be removed as shareholders if they do not purchase enough inputs through the coop, ....What's going to be next...

Apologies if I've been reading these situations incorrectly, as not involved in either "coop"

To be fair from talking to someone I know supplying Boherbue, they have been way ahead on milk price. I think that might have helped soften people up a bit. But you are totally correct. And who was at the heart of this bright idea? I'm told the ICOS of course. Yes the same people who would not allow farmers who moved to Botherbue to become shareholders, because they still had shares in Dairygold.

Where do these guys get off? They are simply pushing an agenda for the management of the big Co Ops. You can bet it's only a matter of time before the Botherbue rules will be used as a template for other Co Ops.

It's disgraceful the amount of Co Op managers that are driving around in new E class mercedes at a time when they are telling farmers that they could be looking at a milk price of 22c. Does anyone even know how much these geniuses are being paid? Kind of topical I would think given the type of revelations that have been rocking the agri sector.

jaymla627

Farmer Ed wrote: »

To be fair from talking to someone I know supplying Boherbue, they have been way ahead on milk price. I think that might have helped soften people up a bit. But you are totally correct. And who was at the heart of this bright idea? I'm told the ICOS of course. Yes the same people who would not allow farmers who moved to Botherbue to become shareholders, because they still had shares in Dairygold.

Where do these guys get off? They are simply pushing an agenda for the management of the big Co Ops. You can bet it's only a matter of time before the Botherbue rules will be used as a template for other Co Ops.

It's disgraceful the amount of Co Op managers that are driving around in new E class mercedes at a time when they are telling farmers that they could be looking at a milk price of 22c. Does anyone even know how much these geniuses are being paid? Kind of topical I would think given the type of revelations that have been rocking the agri sector.

Have it from a good source that the next glanbia fixed price schemes will have a fert/feed clause in them, it's basically looking like these schemes will be printing presses for the agricultural sales sides of the businesses....
Glanbia especially is positioning itself in a position that will give it immense power over suppliers that lock in feed and fert.
They might seem to be giving you some stability with milk price etc, but their simply giving it to you in one hand and taking it out of the other when your forced to buy overpriced feed/fert with strict terms and conditions that will end up costing you a few cent extra per litre as opposed to dealing with independent suppliers