Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

whelan2

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Glanbia member April milk price held at 24 cpl including 2cpl Co-op support. GII price 22cpl.

Thats very early in the month to be announcing the price, at least we know now

browned

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Glanbia member April milk price held at 24 cpl including 2cpl Co-op support. GII price 22cpl.

With a 2 cent drop by Carbery it'll mean a milk price of 22.77 and 22.74 for the west cork coops.

Water John

Good discussion, we really do need to drill down into the workings of each processor. Bloody job IFA should have been doing for the past 10/15 years.
We know even at national level it wasn't done as the figures were never collated.

Kowtow you are right. Farmers have believed and lead to believe that the managements of these establishments are of superior brains.
They get paid very high salaries, 'because they are worth it'.

Yes, Keep Going, Carbery are by far the best of the lot. My jaw drops thinking of some of the others.

Not to be too negative but an article on page 3 of the Irish Examiner Farming today with John Maher makes sober reading on margin of 80 cow operation.

whelan2

Water John wrote: »

Not to be too negative but an article on page 3 of the Irish Examiner Farming today with John Maher makes sober reading on margin of 80 cow operation.

Any chance of a link to it please

browned

whelan2 wrote: »

Any chance of a link to it please

The jist was the income for an 80 cow herd in the summer months is €11,500 per month
Fert plus ration comes to €6,000
Living exp €3,000 ( wife 2 kids)
So basically €2,500 to pay bills repayments etc.
cut ration from 4 to 2 kgs for mag, mop up bull costs 2,000 to bull 20-30 cows. Ai would be €200-400.

Water John

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/cash-flow-warning-as-dairy-slump-continues-397664.html

Take out ESB etc,€2.5K wont even cover those costs. Then cutting family living expenses.

jaymla627

browned wrote: »

The jist was the income for an 80 cow herd in the summer months is €11,500 per month
Fert plus ration comes to €6,000
Living exp €3,000 ( wife 2 kids)
So basically €2,500 to pay bills repayments etc.
cut ration from 4 to 2 kgs for mag, mop up bull costs 2,000 to bull 20-30 cows. Ai would be €200-400.

The cut the meal part was smokes and daggers, I don't have too many cows here that will do 30 litres on 2 kgs for too long once they came of peak, you could easily say that 2500 over may/June/July will go on contractor fees for silage.......
Illustrates how tight things are going to be coming into autumn when the milk chequers start to get smaller and bills start mounting up

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

Any chance of a link to it please

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/cash-flow-warning-as-dairy-slump-continues-397664.html

Farmer Ed

What amazes me is how as farmers we are not being a bit more vocal about what is going on. I bet even some of the abvious realities as pointed out by most of you here will be dismissed by some as you being negative and pretty much your own fault for complaining. When did we become sheep?

Farmer Ed

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/cash-flow-warning-as-dairy-slump-continues-397664.html

The dogs in the streets knew fertiliser prices were decreasing but it didn't stop the people who pays his wages from trying to flog artic loads of it to unsuspecting farmers in the past few months.

einn32

Fonterra down to $5.00 kgms and Murray Goulburn down to $4.75 in Oz. $5.60 is around breakeven.

Not sure if it's a reaction to milk price but 100 water buffalo arrived on the farm here in the last week. $2.50 per litre.

browned

jaymla627 wrote: »

The cut the meal part was smokes and daggers, I don't have too many cows here that will do 30 litres on 2 kgs for too long once they came of peak, you could easily say that 2500 over may/June/July will go on contractor fees for silage.......
Illustrates how tight things are going to be coming into autumn when the milk chequers start to get smaller and bills start mounting up

It's even less, misread it and it's only €2000. Ai will eat into that as well. Quite possible I don't feed ration so I honestly don't know.

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

Good discussion, we really do need to drill down into the workings of each processor. Bloody job IFA should have been doing for the past 10/15 years.
We know even at national level it wasn't done as the figures were never collated.

Kowtow you are right. Farmers have believed and lead to believe that the managements of these establishments are of superior brains.
They get paid very high salaries, 'because they are worth it'.

Yes, Keep Going, Carbery are by far the best of the lot. My jaw drops thinking of some of the others.

Not to be too negative but an article on page 3 of the Irish Examiner Farming today with John Maher makes sober reading on margin of 80 cow operation.

,
Why should the processor have to give any information to IFA, is it really any bodies business, same with meat factories, why should they have to declare what they're selling meat for, surely letting out that sort of information gives their competitors an advantage.
doesn't make good business sense

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

,
Why should the processor have to give any information to IFA, is it really any bodies business, same with meat factories, why should they have to declare what they're selling meat for, surely letting out that sort of information gives their competitors an advantage.
doesn't make good business sense

Sure the processors don't have to tell Ifa anything but as their in bed together you'd imagine theyd be some bit of pillow talk

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Sure the processors don't have to tell Ifa anything but as their in bed together you'd imagine theyd be some bit of pillow talk

I think you're a bit naive if you think any business will divulge anything about their business, last time i was in a meat factory, one of the bosses tried to take my phone thinking i was taking photographs.
I hope someone's ripping you off, it'd be an awful waste of yur conspiracy stories if they're not :rolleyes:
,

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

I think you're a bit naive if you think any business will divulge anything about their business, last time i was in a meat factory, one of the bosses tried to take my phone thinking i was taking photographs.
I hope someone's ripping you off, it'd be an awful waste of yur conspiracy stories if they're not :rolleyes:
,

I doubt if he thought you were going to take pictures. Are you sure he wasn't just out of credit and just wanted to make a call? Imagine thinking he was afraid you'd take pictures. Rangler are you sure you were not just being a little bit paranoid?

Water John

Its exactly IFA's job Rangler to know the mix of product each processor has.
To know exactly what are the prices in the marketplace of those products.

The processor won't divulge to the IFA. Never asked them to. There are stats compiled by CSO, Central Bank, etc. Plenty of European data.
Most of us don't have the time to be collating these, but staff in IFA and indeed ICMSA should see these as the basic core tools of their job.
But I know they have never done this.

Without a comprehensive dossier, what business has Sean O'Leary or any one like him, going toe to toe with a milk processor.
If you haven't the information, your spoofing and worse, those across the table know your spoofing.

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

Its exactly IFA's job Rangler to know the mix of product each processor has.
To know exactly what are the prices in the marketplace of those products.

The processor won't divulge to the IFA. Never asked them to. There are stats compiled by CSO, Central Bank, etc. Plenty of European data.
Most of us don't have the time to be collating these, but staff in IFA and indeed ICMSA should see these as the basic core tools of their job.
But I know they have never done this.

Without a comprehensive dossier, what business has Sean O'Leary or any one like him, going toe to toe with a milk processor.
If you haven't the information, your spoofing and worse, those across the table know your spoofing.

Certainly in a past life sean didn't go toe to toe with the processors. He played on their team when contracts were being introduced.
Only now is he starting to do a U turn. About 3 years too late.

kowtow

If the farmers who own the coops can't get sufficient information for be happy that they are true partners (and they can, without affecting commercial confidence as I outlined earlier) then the only solution is to split distribution and processing functions of the existing coops so that the processors compete for milk.

One way or another the present arrangements have made every generation of farmers poorer than the last, things can't continue this way regardless of price recovery when it comes.

kowtow

Water John wrote:

Without a comprehensive dossier, what business has Sean O'Leary or any one like him, going toe to toe with a milk processor. If you haven't the information, your spoofing and worse, those across the table know your spoofing.

Forget the Ifa.. you don't need a union to argue with a business which you own.

whelan2

browned wrote: »

The jist was the income for an 80 cow herd in the summer months is €11,500 per month
Fert plus ration comes to €6,000
Living exp €3,000 ( wife 2 kids)
So basically €2,500 to pay bills repayments etc.
cut ration from 4 to 2 kgs for mag, mop up bull costs 2,000 to bull 20-30 cows. Ai would be €200-400.

Heard of a lad today bought a 14mth old hereford bull for 2800 to run with his cows as it would be cheaper than ai:eek: you'd get alot of ai for 2800. Cant see a 14 month old bull being able to bull all cows

Water John

Kowtow,like a legal person of my acquaintance said in another situation, 'its like trying to wrestle with a barrel of eels'.

Dawggone

I see that the tone/morale of Boards.ie on dairying has taken another dip...

1.Duck and dive.
2.Turn everything on its head...just because you've always done something in a certain way, doesn't mean it's the correct way.
3.If cash flow is going to be challenged, immediately go and sort something with your suppliers/services etc.
4.Do a budget and then stress test for a 20/18/16cpl milk price.


Im assuming that you've already cut all the 'low hanging fruit' savings wise, but remember don't put your business in a situation where you can't take the big/huge/massive opportunity that will inevitably come your way...



Now, way back when it was all hubris and happy days on here about dairying, I was the doomsayer...now I'm the optimist! If you survive this you'll come out the other side leaner and meaner.

Welcome to the reality of farming without quota.

kevthegaff

What is the price at glanbia inc top ups, I'm pretty confused!

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

What is the price at glanbia inc top ups, I'm pretty confused!

24cpl

browned

whelan2 wrote: »

Heard of a lad today bought a 14mth old hereford bull for 2800 to run with his cows as it would be cheaper than ai:eek: you'd get alot of ai for 2800. Cant see a 14 month old bull being able to bull all cows

I might be completely wrong but I thought with beef Bulls at least a lot of the 2nd and 3rd repeats were free but for the call out charge.

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

Its exactly IFA's job Rangler to know the mix of product each processor has.
To know exactly what are the prices in the marketplace of those products.

The processor won't divulge to the IFA. Never asked them to. There are stats compiled by CSO, Central Bank, etc. Plenty of European data.
Most of us don't have the time to be collating these, but staff in IFA and indeed ICMSA should see these as the basic core tools of their job.
But I know they have never done this.

Without a comprehensive dossier, what business has Sean O'Leary or any one like him, going toe to toe with a milk processor.
If you haven't the information, your spoofing and worse, those across the table know your spoofing.

If you ever sat through one of Catherine Lascurettes presentation, you'd get all that rubbish. It's a real ass scorcher with graphs etc......most boring meeting of the year, I'd be well sick before there'd be any conclusion,
You think knowing all that data will raise the price

Water John

I don't think you were paying much attention in that class, Rangler.
Whatever she presented, I can tell you it did not contain what I listed earlier.

My point is, that the IFA had not done that detailed work and relate back to the individual processor and I stand over that statement.

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

24cpl

22 c plus Ornua 1 cent plus top up 1 cent .base price 24 if shared up solids paid off 22 cent base tho .much prefer our pricing Kev .24.6 base plus solids standard

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

I don't think you were paying much attention in that class, Rangler.
Whatever she presented, I can tell you it did not contain what I listed earlier.

My point is, that the IFA had not done that detailed work and relate back to the individual processor and I stand over that statement.

You're being governed by the market now and you're producing too much milk...doesn't take a genius to see that.
Knowing where the various products are going is unlikely to improve that, probably make it worse in that every farmer would have a different idea on where they should be going.
You seem to imply that the processors aren't targetting the right markets.
Will undercutting other Irish processors get them into these right markets.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

If you ever sat through one of Catherine Lascurettes presentation, you'd get all that rubbish. It's a real ass scorcher with graphs etc......most boring meeting of the year, I'd be well sick before there'd be any conclusion,
You think knowing all that data will raise the price

Did she break it down as to what co ops produced what or who were most dependent on commoditys? If you found it too boring or couldn't understand it. Don't you think you were doing the farmers you were supposed to be representing a disservice?
I think it is not an unfair observation to say based on your atatuite alone. That IFAs position is they place their full trust and confidence in our processors.

Water John

Rangler, I'm not talking about the bag of SMP this week.
I'm talking of medium and long term strategy of each processor and where it has led its suppliers over time.
The positioning of each processor is getting their reward especially now when things are under real pressure.

Some processors said, produce as much milk as you can, let the selling of it to us, the experts.
Some had only plans to produce more WMP and SMP and let Ornua shift it.
Who is suffering for that strategy, the farmers.

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Did she break it down as to what co ops produced what or who were most dependent on commoditys? If you found it too boring or couldn't understand it. Don't you think you were doing the farmers you were supposed to be representing a disservice?
I think it is not an unfair observation to say based on your atatuite alone. That IFAs position is they place their full trust and confidence in our processors.

If that was valuable information, why was there only about ten dairy farmers at the meeting in the middle of the county, do you think i say the farmers stay at home with the feet up the chimney just to annoy you.
If as Water John says, you all backed the wrong horse, is it time to be selling your milk north

Water John

I think we can take it, her information wasn't valuable.
Iv'e seen some of this stuff and I don't blame you for nodding off.

PPP aren't a substitute for knowledge and facts.

Would not disagree with you in looking at alternative processors.
But IFA and ICOS disagree on us having that choice. MSA's were great and in our interest we were told.

Farmer Ed

If I understand correctly Cathrine was giving lectures on dairying to sheep farmers. At least one such farmers only claim to fame was that a bull broke to his heifers and he ended up with a good Suckler quota and he sold land to the Nra.
No wonder Ifa policy on dairying is such a shambles.

Milked out

http://theglobaldairy.com/noticias/fonterra-farmer-council-on-verge-of-reform-plan-vote-46628/

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If I understand correctly Cathrine was giving lectures on dairying to sheep farmers. At least one such farmers only claim to fame was that a bull broke to his heifers and he ended up with a good Suckler quota and he sold land to the Nra.
No wonder Ifa policy on dairying is such a shambles.

Your incessant whingeing is starting to get personal now.....even childish
County chairman has to let on to have an interest, chaired that meeting because the dairy rep couldn't make it.....wasn't he lucky.
Trying to pick holes in the management of a business when you haven't a clue is going nowhere, particularly on here and if you said some of your thoughts at a meeting, you'd be laughed outa the room

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

Your incessant whingeing is starting to get personal now.....even childish
County chairman has to let on to have an interest, chaired that meeting because the dairy rep couldn't make it.....wasn't he lucky.
Trying to pick holes in the management of a business when you haven't a clue is going nowhere, particularly on here and if you said some of your thoughts at a meeting, you'd be laughed outa the room

Exactly "let on you had an interest"
What a joke

As I said before you make IFAs position of full conference in the management of our processors perfectly clear. Tip your hat to the Ceo and even hold his umbrella at the ploughing.

Water John

Milked Out, I thought we specialised in controlling whose on the Boards of our coops.
Once again, Fonterra will show us the way

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Exactly "let on you had an interest"
What a joke

As I said before you make IFAs position of full conference in the management of our processors perfectly clear. Tip your hat to the Ceo and even hold his umbrella at the ploughing.

I thought i was great it be at the meeting at all, considering the way i despised the inequity of the quota system, and the way that drystock farmers in the real world had to compete with them.
Anyway the karma has swung in my favour for a while now, ewes lambed now, 20 or 30hrs/ week should do the work from now on, so I won't be worrying about the price of anything or who's creaming it either

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

I thought i was great it be at the meeting at all, considering the way i despised the inequity of the quota system, and the way that drystock farmers in the real world had to compete with them.
Anyway the karma has swung in my favour for a while now, ewes lambed now, 20 or 30hrs/ week should do the work from now on, so I won't be worrying about the price of anything or who's creaming it either

Fair play Rangler. Better be born lucky than rich.

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

I thought i was great it be at the meeting at all, considering the way i despised the inequity of the quota system, and the way that drystock farmers in the real world had to compete with them.
Anyway the karma has swung in my favour for a while now, ewes lambed now, 20 or 30hrs/ week should do the work from now on, so I won't be worrying about the price of anything or who's creaming it either

Poor milk price doesn't improve a moderate lamb price Rangler!! The bottom going out of a mans bucket doesn't put a bottom in yours..

But I am impressed with your unwavering Donald Trumph style defence of a farmers union that has achieved f all more in the last 20 years other than learn how to screw farmers and overpay pot bellied wind bags.

kevthegaff

mahoney_j wrote: »

22 c plus Ornua 1 cent plus top up 1 cent .base price 24 if shared up solids paid off 22 cent base tho .much prefer our pricing Kev .24.6 base plus solids standard

Are we holding for april

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Fair play Rangler. Better be born lucky than rich.

One question ed I looked back over your posts and I cant see one question on actual farming not farm politics, do you like farming at all

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

One question ed I looked back over your posts and I cant see one question on actual farming not farm politics, do you like farming at all

Just because I don't use boards to boast about my achievements doesn't really mean a whole lot. I love farming but don't like to be misrepresented by fat cats in suits honestly some farmers seem to have a fetish for overpaid paid people in suits.

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

Poor milk price doesn't improve a moderate lamb price Rangler!! The bottom going out of a mans bucket doesn't put a bottom in yours..

But I am impressed with your unwavering Donald Trumph style defence of a farmers union that has achieved f all more in the last 20 years other than learn how to screw farmers and overpay pot bellied wind bags.

There's no one being screwed by IFA, if the organisation wasn't there since the recession started, the government would give us nothing, Any fool would see that department of health or the hse or pensions are more deserving of funding than agriculture, yet we get funding and allowances.
We were the only organisation that opposed flat rate SFP payment at the start and the shift of funds to eastern europe and see the way it finished.
Definitely stopped the exit of funds and slowed down the reduction of SFP on those that deserved it most
Unfortunately for the sick and the old, the noisy child (farmers) gets fed first

All of that for I suppose an average cost of €150 per farmer and no cost to i suppose 30000 other farmers.......again the price of a night out

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

There's no one being screwed by IFA, if the organisation wasn't there since the recession started, the government would give us nothing, Any fool would see that department of health or the hse or pensions are more deserving of funding than agriculture, yet we get funding and allowances.
We were the only organisation that opposed flat rate SFP payment at the start and the shift of funds to eastern europe and see the way it finished.
Definitely stopped the exit of funds and slowed down the reduction of SFP on those that deserved it most
Unfortunately for the sick and the old, the noisy child (farmers) gets fed first

All of that for I suppose an average cost of €150 per farmer and no cost to i suppose 30000 other farmers.......again the price of a night out

But for IFA intervention. I think it is fair to say we would not have msas and farmers would now have independent milk testing and possibly co management may have been forced to be a bit more responsible when spending money that would ultimately have to come from farmers.
So where would we be without Ifa?
give us a break please.

whelan2

This a milk price thread. Not another Ifa one.

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

This a milk price thread. Not another Ifa one.

Totally agree but some sheep farmers feel the need to constantly defend the honour of Ifa. The discussion that brought us down this road is product mix and how it affects milk price? As farmers how well do we understand that?

kowtow

whelan2 wrote:

This a milk price thread. Not another Ifa one.

Amen.