Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Don't get excited it's a relatively small order. But it's a start

ah feck,with all the depression with the weather and grass shortage this had finally put a pep in my step.btw the coop could feck off with msa,its every man for himself these days

browned

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Not fussy about the animal for the job it's doing. But I do know a guy offering €1 for buffalo milk. Did a cheese making course myself a while back and the strange thing was none of the cheese makers were using cows milk. I suppose there are a number of ways of choking a dog.

Heard of the buffalo milk, never realised it was worth €1/litre tho. Growing markets for sheep and goats cheese. Niche markets like these are limited tho. It's great to be able to locate one of these opportunities so fair play to you. 60 cent/litre is a fantastic price even if it's for a limited amount of milk.

Sam Kade

browned wrote: »

Heard of the buffalo milk, never realised it was worth €1/litre tho. Growing markets for sheep and goats cheese. Niche markets like these are limited tho. It's great to be able to locate one of these opportunities so fair play to you. 60 cent/litre is a fantastic price even if it's for a limited amount of milk.

Buffalo's only milk 1500-4500 litres a lactation but they have a long life, 20 years, not bad if you were getting €1/litre.

RightTurnClyde

Sam Kade wrote: »

Buffalo's only milk 1500-4500 litres a lactation but they have a long life, 20 years, not bad if you were getting €1/litre.

Do they fit in conventional parlours/cubicles or is it a start from scratch job.

Farmer Ed

Sam Kade wrote: »

Buffalo's only milk 1500-4500 litres a lactation but they have a long life, 20 years, not bad if you were getting €1/litre.

From what I hear 2000l would be a good buffalo but solids are huge. Something like 8 or 9% fat

Farmer Ed

Lads if we keep this up we could just be witnessing the arse falling out of buffalo milk.

Water John

Buffalo are a placid, docile, curious animal. They are domesticated a lot longer than cows.
They are stronger. I think the parlour has to be reinforced a bit.
Also have to protect trees etc as they will damage them.
About 2,000 litres per year.
I think the price should be north of €1/litre.

See the McKnight woman with the milking goats in Donegal. Good niche.
Indoors all year.
Downside, you shoot any male when born. Cannot be fattened.

mf240

The money is in processing and retail. Farmers will always be price takers.

Intervention will only delay recovery.

Dawggone

kevinm177 wrote: »

Only a few days ago you were talking about the huge opportunity that's coming for people that survive in dairying. Now you have a totally different view.

I'm not talking from both sides of my mouth.
Anyone that's profitable in milk over the next few years will have big opportunities come their way.

The lands east of the Danube are15/20yrs away from kicking into top gear. There's huge investment to be made in infrastructure and facilities. However it's now well under way. KWS, DECALB, MONSANTO etc are now establishing themselves there. France's position of being one of the top producers of seeds in the world won't last long...

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

I started paying my levy to the ICMSA again this year as I know afew hard working farmers who are involved with it, however sh1te like this, and talk of raising intervention up to 28c/l would make me reconsider 2bh. Either we accept the fact that we are in this world market, where we are price takers no matter what, and accept that the only solution for the likes of the current crisis is to let it all run through the wash, the sooner the price hits the floor, forces the least efficient to curb production themselves (or fail...), or we go look much more seriously at the alternatives like dwag/Kowtow are suggesting like the EU market, organics, ie adding value rather than dumping milk powder on the world market and hoping for the best.

+1.
Shyte or get off the pot!!

Dawggone

I get 60cpl for raw milk at evening milkings.

Now, got to figure out how to organise a couple of thousand punters every afternoon...

Chiarrai_abu

Timmaay wrote: »

I started paying my levy to the ICMSA again this year as I know afew hard working farmers who are involved with it, however sh1te like this, and talk of raising intervention up to 28c/l would make me reconsider 2bh. Either we accept the fact that we are in this world market, where we are price takers no matter what, and accept that the only solution for the likes of the current crisis is to let it all run through the wash, the sooner the price hits the floor, forces the least efficient to curb production themselves (or fail...), or we go look much more seriously at the alternatives like dwag/Kowtow are suggesting like the EU market, organics, ie adding value rather than dumping milk powder on the world market and hoping for the best.

The next closest option the ICMSA had was that we all say a mass together.
Are they skipping the issues at Co Op Board level where our costs are 10 times higher than New Zealand? (€250 per cow) how much is the administration of the boards per litre on us?

Milked out

http://theglobaldairy.com/noticias/here-and-now-dairy-economist-places-falling-milk-prices-in-global-picture-46739/

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm not talking from both sides of my mouth.

Nor me, quite apart from anything else the cigar makes it impossible.

Timmaay

Milked out wrote: »

http://theglobaldairy.com/noticias/here-and-now-dairy-economist-places-falling-milk-prices-in-global-picture-46739/

Finally some positive news from the US (for the rest of us lol)

Bass Reeves

Chiarrai_abu wrote: »

The next closest option the ICMSA had was that we all say a mass together.
Are they skipping the issues at Co Op Board level where our costs are 10 times higher than New Zealand? (€250 per cow) how much is the administration of the boards per litre on us?

If I remember from the journal management costs in Ireland is 25euro/cow 10 times higher than NZ at 2.5 euro/cow. In Holland it is 6 euro/cow. Equating it back to c/L it is 0.5c/L if the average cow is only doing 5K/L. I imagine that it is a little lower than that .

It was interesting to Stan McCarthy exit from the Kerry Co-Op board. It is being heralded by some as a bad day. Howe you cannot serve two masters and there has to be a conflict of interest between the two with the co-op being the main milk supplier to Kerry. I think this will be one of the changes after this. Kerry and Glanbia want to pay little with commodity price for there milk however they are getting a product produced to a very high standard compared to some milk produced elsewhere. Yet when milk gets very espensive the are not in a rush to pay full market value either.

With Stan gone from the board it may allow the co-op to look at supplying milk elsewhere and or negotiating milk supply price agreements that may be more favourable to suppliers. who owns the stainless steel the Co-op or the PLC.

Farm produce prices follow oil prices. This is partly due to grain that was for bio fuel ending up as animal feed. Feed is the highest cost associated with milk production. Envoirment costs are following fast and this may prevent Eastern Europe becoming the powerhouse some think it will. The EU will force regulation compliance of these country's. Cheap labour will not remain for ever with a free market. I imagine that in twenty years time living standards in Poland and the rest of eastern Europe will be much closer to our than is now the case. Germany is just too near them.

We have failed to brand our products in Ireland. It is too easy for processors( either meat or milk) to take our product and give us the lowest commodity price possible. It is too easy to take a margin off that. Even if we do brand (eg AA and HE beef) it is too easy for processors to take control of the band wagon.

Willfarman

Political instability and skewed economic policy are what will always hold Eastern Europe and Russia from being what the powerhouse of world food production. I think anyway.
It's cheap oil that makes cheap everything.. Apart from silage plastic for some odd reason!

Milked out

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/dairy-farmers-incomes-to-crash/news-story/69960b9c362e8c5e2de82a08a23b47c1

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/dairy-farmers-incomes-to-crash/news-story/69960b9c362e8c5e2de82a08a23b47c1

Having trouble reading that. Subscription only.$8 per week. And I thought the journal was too expensive.

Milked out

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Milked out wrote: »

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/dairy-farmers-incomes-to-crash/news-story/69960b9c362e8c5e2de82a08a23b47c1

Having trouble reading that. Subscription only.$8 per week. And I thought the journal was too expensive.

I linked it off Facebook, thought it would open here same way. Basically they had set a price at 5.60kg/ms ( 45c/L) but because of a miscalculation they are resetting it at below 5 which means essentially the milk sent in for the last 10 months was overpaid according to murray goldburn and fonterra as part of contracts had to match them so both coops want farmers to reimburse or else take a price cut to clear it for the next 2 months (take 14c/L for these 2 months) or finance it over 3 years with them. This is in order to restore profits as the were going to launch on the ASX apparently. My opinion they made the f up not the farmer so they should take the hit. It could push some over the edge down there

Pacoa

I started paying my levy to the ICMSA again this year as I know afew hard working farmers who are involved with it, however sh1te like this, and talk of raising intervention up to 28c/l would make me reconsider 2bh. Either we accept the fact that we are in this world market, where we are price takers no matter what, and accept that the only solution for the likes of the current crisis is to let it all run through the wash, the sooner the price hits the floor, forces the least efficient to curb production themselves (or fail...), or we go look much more seriously at the alternatives like dwag/Kowtow are suggesting like the EU market, organics, ie adding value rather than dumping milk powder on the world market and hoping for the best.

I've been trying to get DG to remove my IFA/ICMSA levy from my milk cheque but keep getting put through to some fella that never answers the phone. Should I just write them a letter instead?

Farmer Ed

Pacoa wrote: »

I've been trying to get DG to remove my IFA/ICMSA levy from my milk cheque but keep getting put through to some fella that never answers the phone. Should I just write them a letter instead?

Would also be advisable to register the letter otherwise they may just ignore you

Water John

Pacoa, you could tell the CEO on Thursday.
Seriously, yes write a letter to the name given but also cc it Head of Milk Supply, and your area milk supply person.

Ed, that would not be the first registered letter that was ignored by DG.

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

I linked it off Facebook, thought it would open here same way. Basically they had set a price at 5.60kg/ms ( 45c/L) but because of a miscalculation they are resetting it at below 5 which means essentially the milk sent in for the last 10 months was overpaid according to murray goldburn and fonterra as part of contracts had to match them so both coops want farmers to reimburse or else take a price cut to clear it for the next 2 months (take 14c/L for these 2 months) or finance it over 3 years with them. This is in order to restore profits as the were going to launch on the ASX apparently. My opinion they made the f up not the farmer so they should take the hit. It could push some over the edge down there

I agree with you but I guess it highlights once again how farmers are the only ones really taking any risk and will have to live on what ever is left over after everyone else gets paid.

Farmer Ed

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ornua-should-lead-the-charge-in-co-op-transparency-not-hide-behind-figures/

Waffletraktor

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Farm produce prices follow oil prices. This is partly due to grain that was for bio fuel ending up as animal feed. Feed is the highest cost associated with milk production. Envoirment costs are following fast and this may prevent Eastern Europe becoming the powerhouse some think it will. The EU will force regulation compliance of these country's. Cheap labour will not remain for ever with a free market. I imagine that in twenty years time living standards in Poland and the rest of eastern Europe will be much closer to our than is now the case. Germany is just too near them.

Forgive me if I don't take much of this paragraph.
Ad is going to have a bigger effect than any amount of bio-ethanol which is fed of feed grains which don't pay, ever, to be grown. The main cropping is Spring which by default is lower in put, with low levels of disease. Your already in the era of 1000 acres per well mechanised labour unit, out there with less width restrictions would be even higher slap a gps and weight cells/auto shut off/ auto headland turning etc throw any idiot on board. As for compliance, to get the money rules and regs need to be met so it's not like that's new, except with Irish farms? Ie sprayer regs which is waaaay behind. The majority of new money/tech is coming Western European farms, so the agronomy and environmental concerns are nothing new.

alps

Pacoa wrote: »

I've been trying to get DG to remove my IFA/ICMSA levy from my milk cheque but keep getting put through to some fella that never answers the phone. Should I just write them a letter instead?

They don't answer letters

Dawggone

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Forgive me if I don't take much of this paragraph.
Ad is going to have a bigger effect than any amount of bio-ethanol which is fed of feed grains which don't pay, ever, to be grown. The main cropping is Spring which by default is lower in put, with low levels of disease. Your already in the era of 1000 acres per well mechanised labour unit, out there with less width restrictions would be even higher slap a gps and weight cells/auto shut off/ auto headland turning etc throw any idiot on board. As for compliance, to get the money rules and regs need to be met so it's not like that's new, except with Irish farms? Ie sprayer regs which is waaaay behind. The majority of new money/tech is coming Western European farms, so the agronomy and environmental concerns are nothing new.

+1.
I'd like to add that most of the Eastern European plains are 'organic' as no artificial fertilisers have been used for many years...
I know a fruit and veg producer that gave up growing veg in '04 because he could import organic veg from Poland cheaper than he could produce conventional veg from his own land. He's been doing nicely ever since.

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
I'd like to add that most of the Eastern European plains are 'organic' as no artificial fertilisers have been used for many years...
I know a fruit and veg producer that gave up growing veg in '04 because he could import organic veg from Poland cheaper than he could produce conventional veg from his own land. He's been doing nicely ever since.

That's just what we need, another ba$yard climbing up on the backs of hard pressed farmers. And to make matters worse one of our own to boot.😀😀

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Its about marginal product.

If you are a uk or French farm producing a million litres for the liquid market at say 32c a litre, how much extra does it cost you to produce another 300k litres to dump on the world as powder?

What matters to Ireland is not the overall cost of production in the uk or the USA, but the cost of those marginal litres* because that is what we compete with.

That's the missing piece which ought to go as a health warning on every headline about Irish COP.

* edit: the cost of those litres will depend heavily on the price of nuts, ultimately making the global powder supply + price a more volatile expression of the feed ratio.

I'm quite busy atm but I got a call today from a friend who's a merchant. The general gist of what he said about dairy (amongst other things) were exactly what you outlined above.
If quota comes back in countries like France, that actually want it back, it will be in a A+B system...A quota will be for litres that can be sold into local markets, at say, 30cpl. B quota will be for milk that needs to be disposed on the world commodity market and will be paid at circa 14/16cpl. This B quota is what Irish milk will have to compete with pricewise....chilling.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

That's just what we need, another ba$yard climbing up on the backs of hard pressed farmers. And to make matters worse one of our own to boot.😀😀

World markets...open competition etc.

#grasstomilk.

caseman

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm quite busy atm but I got a call today from a friend who's a merchant. The general gist of what he said about dairy (amongst other things) were exactly what you outlined above.
If quota comes back in countries like France, that actually want it back, it will be in a A+B system...A quota will be for litres that can be sold into local markets, at say, 30cpl. B quota will be for milk that needs to be disposed on the world commodity market and will be paid at circa 14/16cpl. This B quota is what Irish milk will have to compete with pricewise....chilling.

We'll have to start shipping fresh milk out of the country and under sell yer milk ón the shelf's.

Farmer Ed

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm quite busy atm but I got a call today from a friend who's a merchant. The general gist of what he said about dairy (amongst other things) were exactly what you outlined above.
If quota comes back in countries like France, that actually want it back, it will be in a A+B system...A quota will be for litres that can be sold into local markets, at say, 30cpl. B quota will be for milk that needs to be disposed on the world commodity market and will be paid at circa 14/16cpl. This B quota is what Irish milk will have to compete with pricewise....chilling.

You see the part you are missing here is that
We are all good Europeans now and France is infact our domestic market. No wonder your such a fan of our industry leaders. If they ever had cop on enough to realise that rather than chasing shadows in China. You might have a bit of proper Irish competition.

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

World markets...open competition etc.

#grasstomilk.

You forgot the #whitegold

darragh_haven

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You see the part you are missing here is that
We are all good Europeans now and France is infact our domestic market. No wonder your such a fan of our industry leaders. If they ever had cop on enough to realise that rather than chasing shadows in China. You might have a bit of proper Irish competition.

Milk by its very nature does not travel well. That's why in reality, we can't undercut the milk on the shelf in france..... we could under cut milk powder tho, but may as well ship it to China

Water John

Well if milk can travel from Wexford to NI and back down to the end of West Cork and Kerry, I'd say if could make France. Raw milk already has come in here from the UK.
Yogurts and soft cheeses would have no problem travelling. Branding tied to our lush grass and 'free range' cows.

pedigree 6

darragh_haven wrote: »

Milk by its very nature does not travel well. That's why in reality, we can't undercut the milk on the shelf in france..... we could under cut milk powder tho, but may as well ship it to China

That's not entirely true. The same could be said of fish. Yet fish landed in Kilmore quay are on the rosslare ferry and sold on the french and spanish markets.
It could well be done and sold fresher than some milk sold here.
The drawbacks to this would be french farmers probably dumping the lorries in the sea.

But it could be done but then would the french buy it unless some rebranding was done.

Dawggone

darragh_haven wrote: »

Milk by its very nature does not travel well. That's why in reality, we can't undercut the milk on the shelf in france..... we could under cut milk powder tho, but may as well ship it to China

Shelf life...Goût...







#grasstomilk.

Dawggone

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You see the part you are missing here is that
We are all good Europeans now and France is infact our domestic market. No wonder your such a fan of our industry leaders. If they ever had cop on enough to realise that rather than chasing shadows in China. You might have a bit of proper Irish competition.

Since when is a tasteless product that lacks in provenance European? Grow up. Ya thic

kowtow

caseman wrote:

We'll have to start shipping fresh milk out of the country and under sell yer milk ón the shelf's.

Actually I think that could be an important and much ignored part of the future. I have a vague recollection of a very seedy goldman orchestrated Muni swap which basically faked conditions for Italian entry to the Euro.

Leaving aside the scandal of the deal what was interesting at the time was that it was allegedly political pressure from bavarian dairy farmers which let it go on .. they were sick of being paid in lire so wanted Italy in.

Sovereignty is a high price to pay for market access. Perhaps we should start using it.

Dawggone

darragh_haven wrote: »

You forgot the #whitegold

#forgotsorry.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Actually I think that could be an important and much ignored part of the future. I have a vague recollection of a very seedy goldman orchestrated Muni swap which basically faked conditions for Italian entry to the Euro.

Leaving aside the scandal of the deal what was interesting at the time was that it was allegedly political pressure from bavarian dairy farmers which let it go on .. they were sick of being paid in lire so wanted Italy in.

Sovereignty is a high price to pay for market access. Perhaps we should start using it.

I like (don't!) like it.

Sovereignty is *the* Price.

Farmer Ed

darragh_haven wrote: »

Milk by its very nature does not travel well. That's why in reality, we can't undercut the milk on the shelf in france..... we could under cut milk powder tho, but may as well ship it to China

Maybe the problem is the undercutting mentality.? You see there is research to suggest that for example if they charged Less for kerrygold butter they wouldn't sell as much of it. We need to be chasing the premium end of the market with our grass fed product. On quality we should be able to wipe.the floor with the maize fed carotene deficient milk produced on the continent. Not much pond in all this song and dance about quality assurance if all we are going to do is turn it in to powder and store it until the Chinese are buying again.

Under Eu law it's a free market. Either we are considered equal Europeans or.we are.not? Maybe something to think about the next time they ask us to vote again because they didn't like our first answer.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

I like (don't!) like it.

Dawggone wrote:

Sovereignty is *the* Price.

Mind you if we think we're learning lessons about markets trying to sell to China, its nothing compared to what we'd learn about food quality trying to sell liquid to France...

Dawggone

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Maybe the problem is the undercutting mentality.? You see there is research to suggest that for example if they charged Less for kerrygold butter they wouldn't sell as much of it. We need to be chasing the premium end of the market with our grass fed product. On quality we should be able to wipe.the floor with the maize fed carotene deficient milk produced on the continent. Not much pond in all this song and dance about quality assurance if all we are going to do is turn it in to powder and store it until the Chinese are buying again.

Under Eu law it's a free market. Either we are considered equal Europeans or.we are.not? Maybe something to think about the next time they ask us to vote again because they didn't like our first answer.

At the risk of repeating myself, and I hate repeating myself, what's your point? Your a European? Good for you...so am I.

Are we special because we're European?
Wake up. My cows will spend more time at pasture than yours. Should I get a medal, a bun? Grow up..
Your cows are no better than mine. Think up of a better way of marketing their product.

Farmer Ed

Dawggone wrote: »

At the risk of repeating myself, and I hate repeating myself, what's your point? Your a European? Good for you...so am I.

Are we special because we're European?
Wake up. My cows will spend more time at pasture than yours. Should I get a medal, a bun? Grow up..
Your cows are no better than mine. Think up of a better way of marketing their product.

Are you getting a premium for your milk over milk that is produced from Maize by cows that hardly ever see the light of day? If not then you should be. Look at comtea cheese for example. Did someone say those French farmers are still on 55c. If kerrygold butter doesn't have something going for it in terms of quality over your average continental butter. How is it able to command a premium?
Surely turning Irish milk in to commodities is a bit like turning grapes produced in a prestigious wine producing region in to dried fruit.

As a matter of interest? What time is it in france now? It's way past my bed time here? Board bia inspection in the morning. I was told by some French people that it is still exceptble in france to have calf pens next to the bulk tank. Would be very handy if they'd allow that here.

kowtow

mike_ie wrote:

On a related note, we would like to thank all posters for their input and their patience in the recent Healthcheck thread, and for working together towards making the F&F forum a better place.

mike_ie wrote:

Welcome to the Farming & Forestry forum! The purpose of this forum is to provide a general forum for discussions of a farming or forestry nature, along with general queries and exchanges of people's experiences. Debate and discussion are part of the natural flow of this forum, as is a certain amount of banter and back and forth from time to time. But remember that youngsters sometimes make their way to this forum, so try to keep that in mind when posting.

Farmer Ed wrote:

Are you getting a premium for your milk over milk that is produced from Maize by cows that hardly ever see the light of day? If not then you should be. Look at comtea cheese for example. Did someone say those French farmers are still on 55c. If kerrygold butter doesn't have something going for it in terms of quality over your average continental butter. How is it able to command a premium? Surely turning Irish milk in to commodities is a bit like turning grapes produced in a prestigious wine producing region in to dried fruit.

Hmmm... yes, well not quite grapes.

It's a long time since I saw an Irish cow eating hay outside my yard. And comte milk is likely to come from an MO ... not a x bred MO either.

Our milk is largely grass fed, but for most premium cheese fermented fodder would be out and possibly rotational grazing too.

Would we be prepared, able even, to ditch the more is better approach?

alps

kowtow wrote: »

Would we be prepared, able even, to ditch the more is better approach?

Summation of the problems of a nation right there...

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Hmmm... yes, well not quite grapes.

It's a long time since I saw an Irish cow eating hay outside my yard. And comte milk is likely to come from an MO ... not a x bred MO either.

Our milk is largely grass fed, but for most premium cheese fermented fodder would be out and possibly rotational grazing too.

Would we be prepared, able even, to ditch the more is better approach?

Didn't one of the Irish processors try making a Dutch Edam/Leerdammer/Maasdammer at some stage?
The liquid milk market in Cont EU is very small but cheese is a large market. As you say the quality of milk is not available from the Montys and Normandys and the whole forage system would have to change. Wouldn't fancy having to make hay in Ireland. But there are 500mill people to sell to...
The price of French dairy produce is under constant pressure from German 'French' type cheeses on the shelves.

yosemitesam1

Willfarman wrote: »

Political instability and skewed economic policy are what will always hold Eastern Europe and Russia from being what the powerhouse of world food production. I think anyway.
It's cheap oil that makes cheap everything.. Apart from silage plastic for some odd reason!

They will still be able to keep increasing output for a while yet, foreign seeds were only allowed to be imported to ukraine for the first time this year which could give up to 50% yield increase in wheat if i remember right.
North+South America and even africa all have a huge amount of untapped potential which only need a change in management or bit of investment to greatly increase output.